Replacing fronts/rears and considering all in-ceiling. - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 84 Old 01-05-2016, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rexb610 View Post
I have them!! I just installed them 3 months ago in our new house's family room. Room is about 15' x 18' x 9' ceilings , marble floorings with one side open to kitchen. I have 3 HD-R65AIMs for my F/C/L channels and regular HD-R65 for my rears (hard to see in the photo but you get the idea of the size of the room).
They do blend in nice, but I can see them since I was looking. That's a nice clean setup. I'm still not sure what I'm doing. I went to a local AV store today to listen to the Definitive Technology BP-8040-ST floor standing towers I was considering and I wasn't that impressed, especially for $550 each. They did have some Speakercraft in-ceiling speakers to demo. I don't know what model they were or if they were even angled because their grilles were installed, but I thought they sounded better than the DT towers and were significantly cheaper. I could tell that the sound was coming from higher than the towers, but I don't think that's a big deal because my TV is high on the wall above the fireplace. I'm starting to lean back towards left and right in-ceiling mains with my Mythos 7 center and if I don't like the center, then adding a matching center in-ceiling.
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post #62 of 84 Old 01-05-2016, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by bajafx4 View Post
I've been reading and researching for days and stressing myself out over a living room remodel and new speaker purchase that I can't make a decison on.

Current 5.1 Setup:
Receiver - Sony STR-DN1060 (keeping)
Center - Mythos 7 (keeping)
Subwoofer - BIC F12 (keeping)
Fronts - Bose 301 on stands (getting rid of)
Rears - Bose 201 wall mounted (getting rid of)

I'm fairly happy with my current setup, but the old Bose speakers need to go. I'm positive that I will be going with in-ceiling rear/surround speakers and will wire the room for 7.1, but will stay with 5.1 for now. I can accommodate floor standing speakers for my fronts, but would really like to clean up the room and go with an all in-ceiling setup. If I go with floor standing fronts, I'd like something low profile with a small footprint like the Definitive Technology BP line (<6" wide cabinet); the BP-8040ST ($550ea) is what I'd really like, but the BP-8020ST ($400ea) is more in my price range. I love my F12 subwoofer, but feel it slightly lacks mid range bass, so I believe the powered subwoofers in the BP-8020ST or BP-8040ST would fill that void. If I go with an all in-ceiling setup, I'll probably add a second, smaller, sub to fill the mid bass range.

What I have proposed in my head at the moment is: Keep the Mythos 7 and F12 in place, but replace the front and rear speakers with in-ceiling speakers. If I decide I can't live with this setup, I'll add the Definitive Technology BP floor standing speakers, or something similar, and use the in-ceiling fronts in a quasi-Atmos setup with my next receiver upgrade (STR-DN1060 = no Atmos support).

In regard to in-ceiling speakers: They need to be round, depth isn't an issue, and I don't want to pay more than $1000 for four of them (2 front and 2 rear). So far, I've looked at the Paradigm H65-A and Polk 900-LS for fronts. I've also listened to a friends setup who has all BIC Formula speakers: BIC FH6-LCR for LCR, BIC F12 sub, and BIC FH6-C in-ceiling rears with a similar room and receiver (Sony STR-DN850). I like the sound of his setup and the feel the FH6-C do a good job as rears, so I'm considering those, but I figured I'd probably choose a non-angled version of whatever front in-ceiling speakers I choose to keep things similar.

Any opinions on the Paradigm H65-A or Polk 900-LS or any other angled front in-ceiling speaker? Also, any recommendations for in-ceiling surround speakers?
What?

Get rid of the Bose but do not do in ceiling unless it is just an entertainment room where people are scattered.

I think you need to decide on what sound you want. You do not seem to understand the delivery of sound: it is completely different when delivered from above rather than at your ears.

Good luck.

Scoobs
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post #63 of 84 Old 01-06-2016, 07:37 AM
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More important than whether or not a particular loudspeaker will work well for surrounds or backs in a ceiling is how its location relates to the listener's location, e.g. if the listening position is against or close to a back wall, then any back ceiling loudspeakers will not work as intended as the sound will arrive to the listener from almost directly overhead, not what the producer designed or intended for playback. Similarly, if the room is too narrow to place surround ceiling loudspeakers far enough apart, the sound will arrive to the listener mainly from overhead rather than from the sides as intended by the producer. Finally, the directional characteristics of the ceiling speaker and their aiming are extremely important. If they are highly directional, as will be the case with most 2-way designs, they will not work at all well unless their axes can be aimed directly at the listener's position. Perhaps you have considered these points already but I thought it would be worth mentioning them as almost all the points made by others here seem to relate to whether particular speaker models are "good" or not. Even a "great" speaker can work excellently in some locations but terribly in others depending on the listener's and speaker's positions and geometry of the listening space.

I use four channels of surround wall speakers which can be equally problematic if they cannot be placed well in relationship to the listening position. Fortunately the room was planned and constructed with these concerns in mind so they work quite well.

Peace,
Tucker, FASA
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post #64 of 84 Old 01-07-2016, 10:42 AM
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More important than whether or not a particular loudspeaker will work well for surrounds or backs in a ceiling is how its location relates to the listener's location, e.g. if the listening position is against or close to a back wall, then any back ceiling loudspeakers will not work as intended as the sound will arrive to the listener from almost directly overhead, not what the producer designed or intended for playback. Similarly, if the room is too narrow to place surround ceiling loudspeakers far enough apart, the sound will arrive to the listener mainly from overhead rather than from the sides as intended by the producer. Finally, the directional characteristics of the ceiling speaker and their aiming are extremely important. If they are highly directional, as will be the case with most 2-way designs, they will not work at all well unless their axes can be aimed directly at the listener's position. Perhaps you have considered these points already but I thought it would be worth mentioning them as almost all the points made by others here seem to relate to whether particular speaker models are "good" or not. Even a "great" speaker can work excellently in some locations but terribly in others depending on the listener's and speaker's positions and geometry of the listening space.

I use four channels of surround wall speakers which can be equally problematic if they cannot be placed well in relationship to the listening position. Fortunately the room was planned and constructed with these concerns in mind so they work quite well.

Peace,
Tucker, FASA

I totally agree with this. I know a friend who recently installed a 5.1 system with in-ceiling fronts and rears. I don't have the model numbers but he spent a fortune on B&W in-ceiling speakers, a regular B&W Center channel placed under the screen and a B&W sub woofer. The speaker were expensive and are powered by a 200+W per channel top of the line Marantz receiver.

Unfortunately all I can hear is rears hitting me directly from the ceiling, the centre from the front and a diffused sound from the in-ceiling fronts. It sounds very different and unlike any 5.1 system I have ever heard. We tried all kinds of room correction, manual & odyssey but nothing could make it sound right. It was a big expensive mistake. My friend still watches movies on this setup but I have seen packaged 5.1 systems in a box under $300 sound real & better than this setup. And he probably paid $300 for one in-ceiling speaker.

I am pretty sure the speakers are good but every speaker is designed for a specific application. And my experience tells me that rears or fronts firing straight down from the ceiling is not what the sound engineers had in mind when they build a 5.1 sound track for a film. Far from creating any 3D sound enveloping you it just confuses the hell out of your ears/brain. You hear something for sure but you definitely don't hear it the way it was intended by the sound engineers.
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post #65 of 84 Old 01-07-2016, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by bajafx4 View Post
I've been reading and researching for days and stressing myself out over a living room remodel and new speaker purchase that I can't make a decison on.

Current 5.1 Setup:
Receiver - Sony STR-DN1060 (keeping)
Center - Mythos 7 (keeping)
Subwoofer - BIC F12 (keeping)
Fronts - Bose 301 on stands (getting rid of)
Rears - Bose 201 wall mounted (getting rid of)

I'm fairly happy with my current setup, but the old Bose speakers need to go. I'm positive that I will be going with in-ceiling rear/surround speakers and will wire the room for 7.1, but will stay with 5.1 for now. I can accommodate floor standing speakers for my fronts, but would really like to clean up the room and go with an all in-ceiling setup. If I go with floor standing fronts, I'd like something low profile with a small footprint like the Definitive Technology BP line (<6" wide cabinet); the BP-8040ST ($550ea) is what I'd really like, but the BP-8020ST ($400ea) is more in my price range. I love my F12 subwoofer, but feel it slightly lacks mid range bass, so I believe the powered subwoofers in the BP-8020ST or BP-8040ST would fill that void. If I go with an all in-ceiling setup, I'll probably add a second, smaller, sub to fill the mid bass range.

What I have proposed in my head at the moment is: Keep the Mythos 7 and F12 in place, but replace the front and rear speakers with in-ceiling speakers. If I decide I can't live with this setup, I'll add the Definitive Technology BP floor standing speakers, or something similar, and use the in-ceiling fronts in a quasi-Atmos setup with my next receiver upgrade (STR-DN1060 = no Atmos support).

In regard to in-ceiling speakers: They need to be round, depth isn't an issue, and I don't want to pay more than $1000 for four of them (2 front and 2 rear). So far, I've looked at the Paradigm H65-A and Polk 900-LS for fronts. I've also listened to a friends setup who has all BIC Formula speakers: BIC FH6-LCR for LCR, BIC F12 sub, and BIC FH6-C in-ceiling rears with a similar room and receiver (Sony STR-DN850). I like the sound of his setup and the feel the FH6-C do a good job as rears, so I'm considering those, but I figured I'd probably choose a non-angled version of whatever front in-ceiling speakers I choose to keep things similar.

Any opinions on the Paradigm H65-A or Polk 900-LS or any other angled front in-ceiling speaker? Also, any recommendations for in-ceiling surround speakers?
Replacing fronts with in-ceiling speakers will never give you the same stereo effect you can expect from any front firing speaker. It will be a mistake to do this. I have seen a similar setup with in-ceiling speakers for Fronts and Rears and it was a complete disappointment.

If possible do experiment a bit before you spend on this project and see if you like the sound firing from the ceiling. At the end of the day what matters most is how it sounds to you. Everyone's perception and experience is different and if you like it, it matters little how others feel.
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post #66 of 84 Old 01-07-2016, 11:59 AM
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So you went from Bose and now want all ceiling speakers?

My bro-in-law has 5 ceiling speakers with the TV over the fireplace and asked for help. I sent a link to a book on acoustics and proper home theater speaker positioning. Why waste time, energy and money on something that will not work correctly at the start?

If it HAS to be done that way, blow as much money as you possibly can! Get some TAD concentrics, rip them out of the box and slap they up inside the ceiling--and broadcast to the world that they have beryllium in them. This way you can give the standard answer when people say it sound like @$$... "You are just a hater because you can't afford it".

If you want something pretty, go with in-walls and have a fighting chance at sounding decent. You have the option to use acoustic fabric that can be printed on with pictures or whatever to become picture frames over the in-walls. Subwoofers can be built into furniture or vented through your ceiling as an infinite baffle to completely hide them. There are plenty of options to hide speakers--it just costs money, takes effort, understanding, education and the will to do it correctly.

It is much easier to do it right and figure out a way to hide it than to do it completely wrong and attempt to fix it. Those speakers in the ceiling might be salvaged for Atmos--depending on room layout etc.
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post #67 of 84 Old 01-07-2016, 08:04 PM
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You could do a little experiment. Get some speaker wire and extend your center speaker. Disconnect your other speakers and put your receiver in all channel stereo. Have one person stand on a ladder and one person in the sitting where you sit. Let's say 6 O'clock is the speaker aiming straight at the floor similar to a regular in ceiling speaker. Place the back of the speaker against the ceiling and then tilt it slightly towards the listener or about 7 o'clock that would 30 degrees and it still won't be directly aiming at the listener. To directly aim at the listener you would have to be more like 70 degrees or between 8 and 9 o'clock. See how it sounds and compare it to being placed on the mantle which would simulate the sound bar. You'll have your answer which you prefer. Towers or bookshelf speakers on stands would still be best but I understand about wanting a cleaner décor.
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post #68 of 84 Old 01-07-2016, 09:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
You could do a little experiment. Get some speaker wire and extend your center speaker. Disconnect your other speakers and put your receiver in all channel stereo. Have one person stand on a ladder and one person in the sitting where you sit. Let's say 6 O'clock is the speaker aiming straight at the floor similar to a regular in ceiling speaker. Place the back of the speaker against the ceiling and then tilt it slightly towards the listener or about 7 o'clock that would 30 degrees and it still won't be directly aiming at the listener. To directly aim at the listener you would have to be more like 70 degrees or between 8 and 9 o'clock. See how it sounds and compare it to being placed on the mantle which would simulate the sound bar. You'll have your answer which you prefer. Towers or bookshelf speakers on stands would still be best but I understand about wanting a cleaner décor.
Good idea! I'm going to try this tomorrow with three of my Logitech Z-560 speakers in a LCR 3.1 configuration on the ceiling and then place them across the mantle to compare.



I'll use some washers and screw the stands to my ceiling... it's getting replaced with drywall anyway. The stands also appear to be pretty close to 30º, but I have a digital protractor to confirm.
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post #69 of 84 Old 01-07-2016, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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So you went from Bose and now want all ceiling speakers?
That's what I said. Is there some sarcasm in your question?

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Originally Posted by 18Hurts
If you want something pretty, go with in-walls and have a fighting chance at sounding decent. You have the option to use acoustic fabric that can be printed on with pictures or whatever to become picture frames over the in-walls.
I can't do in-wall speakers for my fronts. It's either in-ceiling, some type of floor standing speaker, or a sound bar. I haven't totally discounted a floor standing or bookshelf speaker on a stand for my fronts, but I wanted to "clean up" the room a little for a few reasons, primarily because I have a baby due April and figured it would be one less thing for him to knock over, poke holes in the grille, and smash in tweeter dust cap.
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post #70 of 84 Old 01-07-2016, 09:37 PM
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That's what I said. Is there some sarcasm in your question?


I can't do in-wall speakers for my fronts. It's either in-ceiling, some type of floor standing speaker, or a sound bar. I haven't totally discounted a floor standing or bookshelf speaker on a stand for my fronts, but I wanted to "clean up" the room a little for a few reasons, primarily because I have a baby due April and figured it would be one less thing for him to knock over, poke holes in the grille, and smash in tweeter dust cap.
He's probably surprised that you'd abandon the notoriously crappy sound of Bose speakers for something much better, and then seriously consider going back to substandard sound by picking in-ceiling speakers which I gather he's implying are only slightly better than Bose speakers.

Anyway, if you want a pretty much baby-proof speaker option, this is what I'd recommend:

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/image..._stand1_hr.jpg
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages...stlcmt340.html
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages...m/cmt340m.html

Those pedestal stands are designed to be fillable---you can easily load them with over a hundred pounds of play sand from Home Depot, or metal bearings if you want even more weight so that even if a 2-3 year old took a running tackle at them they'd probably stay put. The stands raise the drivers and grille a full 24" off the ground, making them even more impervious to rampaging toddlers.

Added bonus is that the actual speakers sound amazing, especially for the modest price, and they do both music and HT very well. Search this forum and google for all the rave reviews of them.
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post #71 of 84 Old 01-07-2016, 09:59 PM - Thread Starter
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He's probably surprised that you'd abandon the notoriously crappy sound of Bose speakers for something much better, and then seriously consider going back to substandard sound by picking in-ceiling speakers which I gather he's implying are only slightly better than Bose speakers.
That's what I figured.
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Anyway, if you want a pretty much baby-proof speaker option, this is what I'd recommend:

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/image..._stand1_hr.jpg
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages...stlcmt340.html
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages...m/cmt340m.html

Those pedestal stands are designed to be fillable---you can easily load them with over a hundred pounds of play sand from Home Depot, or metal bearings if you want even more weight so that even if a 2-3 year old took a running tackle at them they'd probably stay put. The stands raise the drivers and grille a full 24" off the ground, making them even more impervious to rampaging toddlers.

Added bonus is that the actual speakers sound amazing, especially for the modest price, and they do both music and HT very well. Search this forum and google for all the rave reviews of them.
I'll check them out. They appear to be a little larger in size than I wanted; a very interesting concept, nonetheless.
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post #72 of 84 Old 01-08-2016, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
You could do a little experiment. Get some speaker wire and extend your center speaker. Disconnect your other speakers and put your receiver in all channel stereo. Have one person stand on a ladder and one person in the sitting where you sit. Let's say 6 O'clock is the speaker aiming straight at the floor similar to a regular in ceiling speaker. Place the back of the speaker against the ceiling and then tilt it slightly towards the listener or about 7 o'clock that would 30 degrees and it still won't be directly aiming at the listener. To directly aim at the listener you would have to be more like 70 degrees or between 8 and 9 o'clock. See how it sounds and compare it to being placed on the mantle which would simulate the sound bar. You'll have your answer which you prefer. Towers or bookshelf speakers on stands would still be best but I understand about wanting a cleaner décor.
I was just experimenting with four different setups:

Configuration 1: All LCR simulating 30º in-ceiling speakers.
Configuration 2: All LCR simulating ~60" soundbar (i.e. GoldenEar SuperCinema XL).
Configuration 3: L & R fronts simulating 30º in-ceiling speakers with a matching center channel below the screen.
Configuration 4 (not pictured): L & R fronts simulating bookshelves to the sides of the fireplace at ear level.

*NOTE: The Logitech speakers each hung at 32-34 degrees. I didn't adjust them beyond that because I thought the difference was negligible. A true in-ceiling will be about 6-8" higher than the hanging speakers, so the location they're aimed at in the room would be about the same.

Rank (best to worst): 4, 3, 2, & 1. I went back and forth between all of them several times and will say that it wasn't a total blowout.

Configuration 1, simulating all 30º in-ceiling speakers did have a slightly higher sound. It didn't sound like the dialogue was coming from above the screen, but I will admit that if trying to pinpoint where it was coming from, it sounded like it was coming from above the screen, or at least above where peoples mouths are on the screen.

Configuration 2 & 3. Configuration 3 did have a slightly higher sound overall, but the center speaker being below the screen brought the dialogue back down to where it should be. I will say that the dialogue appeared to be coming from lower on the screen than the average character's on-screen mouth, but I guess without a speaker behind the screen it's never going to be perfect. Dialogue was better with the center below the screen versus above. With that said, the overall sound stage in configuration 3 had a much larger presence than configuration 2 and left/right sounds were much more distinguishable. As mentioned, configuration 3 did ever so slightly sound higher in the room, but it's overall sound stage presence pushed it past configuration 2.

Configuration 4, simulating a bookshelf on a stand did sound the best, but not much better than configuration 3. The sound stage didn't seem larger or better than configuration 3, but it did seem to bring the sound down to the proper level in the room.

On a side note, my wife found the sound from every configuration perfectly acceptable.

Conclusion: I'm nearly back to where I started. I'd like to run a 30º in-ceiling left and right front with a center channel on my mantle below the TV. The two primary in-ceiling speakers I'm considering are the Paradigm H-65A ($250ea) and the GoldenEar Invisa HTR 7000 ($500ea). Would either one match better with my Definitive Technology Mythos 7 center? I'm also willing to replace my center to something that would work well with either of those two ceiling speakers, but I'm limited to ~6" of depth and height on my mantle. I just purchased my Sony STR-DN1060 receiver and probably won't upgrade for a few years, at which time my little guy will be a little older; at that time I'd probably convert my two in-ceiling front speakers to front height Atmos and add some floors standing fronts.
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post #73 of 84 Old 01-09-2016, 04:33 AM
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I shouldn't probably tell you this as ignorance is bliss but once you start noticing you will always notice it With a difference of height in the speakers you will notice the difference when you have 2 people talking on the screen and one talking out of the center and one coming out of the left or right you notice the difference, Another time is when sounds pan across the front. Most of the time it won't be noticeable as probably 75+% of dialogue comes out of the center speaker. I do think it is best to match the front speakers when possible. I'd try to listen to each of the different brands even if it is just the bookshelf version and see which one you like better.
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post #74 of 84 Old 01-09-2016, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bajafx4 View Post
I was just experimenting with four different setups:

Configuration 1: All LCR simulating 30º in-ceiling speakers.
Configuration 2: All LCR simulating ~60" soundbar (i.e. GoldenEar SuperCinema XL).
Configuration 3: L & R fronts simulating 30º in-ceiling speakers with a matching center channel below the screen.
Configuration 4 (not pictured): L & R fronts simulating bookshelves to the sides of the fireplace at ear level.

*NOTE: The Logitech speakers each hung at 32-34 degrees. I didn't adjust them beyond that because I thought the difference was negligible. A true in-ceiling will be about 6-8" higher than the hanging speakers, so the location they're aimed at in the room would be about the same.

Rank (best to worst): 4, 3, 2, & 1. I went back and forth between all of them several times and will say that it wasn't a total blowout.

Configuration 1, simulating all 30º in-ceiling speakers did have a slightly higher sound. It didn't sound like the dialogue was coming from above the screen, but I will admit that if trying to pinpoint where it was coming from, it sounded like it was coming from above the screen, or at least above where peoples mouths are on the screen.

Configuration 2 & 3. Configuration 3 did have a slightly higher sound overall, but the center speaker being below the screen brought the dialogue back down to where it should be. I will say that the dialogue appeared to be coming from lower on the screen than the average character's on-screen mouth, but I guess without a speaker behind the screen it's never going to be perfect. Dialogue was better with the center below the screen versus above. With that said, the overall sound stage in configuration 3 had a much larger presence than configuration 2 and left/right sounds were much more distinguishable. As mentioned, configuration 3 did ever so slightly sound higher in the room, but it's overall sound stage presence pushed it past configuration 2.

Configuration 4, simulating a bookshelf on a stand did sound the best, but not much better than configuration 3. The sound stage didn't seem larger or better than configuration 3, but it did seem to bring the sound down to the proper level in the room.

On a side note, my wife found the sound from every configuration perfectly acceptable.

Conclusion: I'm nearly back to where I started. I'd like to run a 30º in-ceiling left and right front with a center channel on my mantle below the TV. The two primary in-ceiling speakers I'm considering are the Paradigm H-65A ($250ea) and the GoldenEar Invisa HTR 7000 ($500ea). Would either one match better with my Definitive Technology Mythos 7 center? I'm also willing to replace my center to something that would work well with either of those two ceiling speakers, but I'm limited to ~6" of depth and height on my mantle. I just purchased my Sony STR-DN1060 receiver and probably won't upgrade for a few years, at which time my little guy will be a little older; at that time I'd probably convert my two in-ceiling front speakers to front height Atmos and add some floors standing fronts.
You have had a boatload of folks tell you that in-ceiling speakers will not sound right and yet, here you are, about to go for in-ceiling front speakers. Other folks have mentioned that the Golden Ear speakers will not match well with the Mythos center, and yet, here you are trying to pair them up .... I really don't know what to tell you at this point.

<sigh>
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post #75 of 84 Old 01-12-2016, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by SB77 View Post
Replacing fronts with in-ceiling speakers will never give you the same stereo effect you can expect from any front firing speaker. It will be a mistake to do this. I have seen a similar setup with in-ceiling speakers for Fronts and Rears and it was a complete disappointment.

If possible do experiment a bit before you spend on this project and see if you like the sound firing from the ceiling. At the end of the day what matters most is how it sounds to you. Everyone's perception and experience is different and if you like it, it matters little how others feel.
I totally agree!
You're better off just leaving out the front ceiling speakers altogether. Put proper center/front speakers on stands or on wall. Even bookshelf speakers dangling from the ceiling firing at the listener is better than an in-ceiling front. Ceiling speakers were never meant for any of the LCR functions. Worst case, you could do a custom in-wall speakers for the LCR, which can sound quite nice if done properly, but don't do in-ceiling pls!
Remember to match the LCR for seamless sound panning. Remember the Dragonheart Sean Connery 360deg dialogue clip?
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post #76 of 84 Old 01-12-2016, 08:24 AM
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Have you given a quality sound bar a chance? I still think this beats ceiling speakers. I think there will many options like this for clean wireless installs. http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/1362...-to-a-soundbar

It appears to me that speakers under the tv would still be above ear height.

When tv's are this high, I think the tv should be angled to the viewer's eyes. The same angle should be done with the speakers.

Can you tilt the tv down a bit and aim the speakers to the listening area?
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post #77 of 84 Old 01-12-2016, 08:36 AM
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For what it's worth, I've been really pleased with my in ceiling surrounds; TDG Audio NFC-61. Had them installed when we were building the house.
The arrangement of the living room was...um...altered after they were installed, so the left one sits about 1' further from my ears than the right one. But ran the AccuEQ on my Onkyo receiver and they adjusted perfectly.
Just watched the T-rex scene from Jurassic Park the other night and when the rain starts falling, it sounded so real I had to check outside.
They blend well with my Def Tech ProMonitors/ProCenter. Saw you mentioned you were looking at Def Tech towers and have the Mythos center channel. I know they're different speakers, but for what it's worth - they blend well for me.
So anyway - might be worth checking the NFC-61 (or the TDG Audio line, they have larger) out.
Good luck...

Samsung 55" JS8500
7.1 Setup:
Onkyo TX-NR646, Chane A1.4 & A2.4 (LCR), Yamaha NS-IC600 surr, TDG Audio NFC-61 back surr, SVS SB-2000
Samsung K8500, Roku Premiere+ and Roku 2, Harmony 650
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post #78 of 84 Old 01-12-2016, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by jayzzzk View Post
Yeah, too bad the tweeters for the Di8R did not have the ability to rotate to point to the listener.

I thought that the Di8R has pivotable tweeters - at least that is what the Def Tech site says.


Cheers,

Nikhil
http://www.lihkin.net

Definitive Technology Mythos ST-Ls (Fronts), Definitive Technology CS8080HD (Center), Definitive Technology Gem XLs (Surrounds), Definitive Technology DI 6.5R (5.1.4 Atmos), JTR Captivator 1400, Denon X4200W, Oppo UDP-203 UHD Player, Onkyo M-5010 Amp, Onkyo C-7030
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post #79 of 84 Old 01-12-2016, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Well... for what it's worth, I've made a decision and it's more along the lines of what you guys were recommending and nothing like my original plan.

I'm going all GoldenEar.

Fronts: Aon 2 - A pair sitting on short stands, about 24" tall, at the far ends of my fireplace hearth.
Center: SuperSat 60 - Will go below TV on the fireplace mantle.
Rears: SuperSat 3 - Possibly mounted on tall stands, but will most likely be mounted at about 80" wall height on angled wall mounts.

I'll pre-wire my room front height Atmos speaker locations for future GE Invisa HTR 7000. My floor joists above the room are 2x12 lumber; should I box in the area where the speaker will eventually go to create a quasi-enclosure for the speaker? I don't care about sound traveling to the 2nd floor or through the floor joists to other areas of the house, but just wondering if creating a smaller cavity for the speaker will improve its sound. If so, approximately what volume enclosure should I build?
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post #80 of 84 Old 01-13-2016, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bajafx4 View Post
Well... for what it's worth, I've made a decision and it's more along the lines of what you guys were recommending and nothing like my original plan.

I'm going all GoldenEar.

Fronts: Aon 2 - A pair sitting on short stands, about 24" tall, at the far ends of my fireplace hearth.
Center: SuperSat 60 - Will go below TV on the fireplace mantle.
Rears: SuperSat 3 - Possibly mounted on tall stands, but will most likely be mounted at about 80" wall height on angled wall mounts.

I'll pre-wire my room front height Atmos speaker locations for future GE Invisa HTR 7000. My floor joists above the room are 2x12 lumber; should I box in the area where the speaker will eventually go to create a quasi-enclosure for the speaker? I don't care about sound traveling to the 2nd floor or through the floor joists to other areas of the house, but just wondering if creating a smaller cavity for the speaker will improve its sound. If so, approximately what volume enclosure should I build?
That is a conversation to have with the manufacturer. Contact them with the question.

Sounds like you are on the right path, otherwise.
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post #81 of 84 Old 01-13-2016, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bajafx4 View Post
Well... for what it's worth, I've made a decision and it's more along the lines of what you guys were recommending and nothing like my original plan.

I'm going all GoldenEar.

Fronts: Aon 2 - A pair sitting on short stands, about 24" tall, at the far ends of my fireplace hearth.
Center: SuperSat 60 - Will go below TV on the fireplace mantle.
Rears: SuperSat 3 - Possibly mounted on tall stands, but will most likely be mounted at about 80" wall height on angled wall mounts.

I'll pre-wire my room front height Atmos speaker locations for future GE Invisa HTR 7000. My floor joists above the room are 2x12 lumber; should I box in the area where the speaker will eventually go to create a quasi-enclosure for the speaker? I don't care about sound traveling to the 2nd floor or through the floor joists to other areas of the house, but just wondering if creating a smaller cavity for the speaker will improve its sound. If so, approximately what volume enclosure should I build?
I'm in a similar situation as you in that I'm remodeling my fireplace with floor-to-ceiling stacked stone. This is a great room adjacent to the kitchen so aesthetics were very important. Not being able to demo in ceiling speakers without cutting drywall and having it wired, I bit the bullet and had it done. I went with Sonance all around. You can listen to them at Magnolia. I read for weeks about what to get and had these recommended by a few folks and really like them. Thin magnetic bezels were key, as was the ability to angle the woofers and tweeters. Does it sound as good as my Ascend Sierra-1 setup? No. But it is nearly invisible and sounds better than I expected. I've got actual built in bookshelves on both sides of my fireplace so I'm going to wire in case I decide to add speakers back on the shelves in the future. Not only do I not have room for floorstanding speakers, I have two young kids and it's the last thing I would consider anywhere in my house where they play. My Sierra-1s are likely going to the master for music listening.

I wouldn't shy away from in ceiling surrounds. Mine sound great and I like them better than the fronts in ceiling (compared to bookshelf speakers in front). Speakers with decent imaging will make them sound less like they're in the ceiling for the LCRs too. Really the biggest thing for me is my wife didn't want a center channel mounted to the stacked stone or on a mantel (we have yet to remodel) so I'm still in the trial period with all in ceilings although I think I'll keep what I have.

By the way, you mentioned you're not concerned with sound travel to your second floor from in ceiling speakers. This is actually a major issue at my house. My nine-month-old daughter's room is above the front speakers and it's almost like you're sitting in my living room when I have them turned up. Potentially a big issue if one of your bedrooms is above that space. I'll be installing some Dynaboxes to resolve it.

Anyway, glad to see you're getting some decisions made. It's all about priorities and sacrifices when it comes to living rooms! You will get all kinds of opinions here on in ceiling speakers, most of which are pretty accurate, but ultimately you gotta do what's best for your room, budget, family, etc.
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post #82 of 84 Old 01-14-2016, 10:42 PM
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And ears!

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post #83 of 84 Old 09-14-2016, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dre325 View Post

I wouldn't shy away from in ceiling surrounds. Mine sound great and I like them better than the fronts in ceiling (compared to bookshelf speakers in front). Speakers with decent imaging will make them sound less like they're in the ceiling for the LCRs too. Really the biggest thing for me is my wife didn't want a center channel mounted to the stacked stone or on a mantel (we have yet to remodel) so I'm still in the trial period with all in ceilings although I think I'll keep what I have.

By the way, you mentioned you're not concerned with sound travel to your second floor from in ceiling speakers. This is actually a major issue at my house. My nine-month-old daughter's room is above the front speakers and it's almost like you're sitting in my living room when I have them turned up. Potentially a big issue if one of your bedrooms is above that space. I'll be installing some Dynaboxes to resolve it.

Anyway, glad to see you're getting some decisions made. It's all about priorities and sacrifices when it comes to living rooms! You will get all kinds of opinions here on in ceiling speakers, most of which are pretty accurate, but ultimately you gotta do what's best for your room, budget, family, etc.
I have the HTD65 Aims, and so far I'm really happy with it. I've asked numerous friends and guests to guess where the sound is coming from. My TV has speakers on its sides (Sony 79XRB900B) and they actually thought that the sound was coming from the front of the TV speaker. I've A and B the TV speaker and the in-ceiling and the HTDs sound way better, fuller and louder. And it doesn't feel like the sound is coming from the ceiling at all. I've seen and heard others like my friend's in-ceiling ones (installed by home builders for model homes) and they just sucked! I know and can tell the difference.

Yeah, my daughter complains she can hear the sounds from her room. The family room is below her room. I tried to look at those Dynaboxes and they will cost more than my speakers. Lol
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post #84 of 84 Old 09-15-2016, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by rexb610 View Post
I have the HTD65 Aims, and so far I'm really happy with it. I've asked numerous friends and guests to guess where the sound is coming from. My TV has speakers on its sides (Sony 79XRB900B) and they actually thought that the sound was coming from the front of the TV speaker. I've A and B the TV speaker and the in-ceiling and the HTDs sound way better, fuller and louder. And it doesn't feel like the sound is coming from the ceiling at all. I've seen and heard others like my friend's in-ceiling ones (installed by home builders for model homes) and they just sucked! I know and can tell the difference.

Yeah, my daughter complains she can hear the sounds from her room. The family room is below her room. I tried to look at those Dynaboxes and they will cost more than my speakers. Lol
Glad you like the HTDs. Being amiable is key as I feel the same with mine that it's hard to tell where the sound is coming from. I ended up with Sonance in-ceilings and like them so much I've installed 16 of them throughout my house :-). I never installed the Dynaboxes, but my wife complains about it still (she thinks it affects my 1 year old). They're pricey, but I've read great things about them. My next decision is to buck up for the dunaboxes, or set my Ascend Sierra 1s on the bookshelves on either side of my fireplace/TV. Wife doesn't want visible speakers or speakers that can be heard in my daughter's room, so we'll see what we end up with. Happy with the full set of ceiling speakers for now though.
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