ELAC Uni-FI B5 Bookshelf Speaker at CES 2016 - Page 11 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #301 of 1615 Old 04-02-2016, 11:06 AM
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That would be one way, but it would be much better if they would sell in singles.
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post #302 of 1615 Old 04-02-2016, 11:16 AM
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I guess but as a marketing aspect, if your selling a dedicated center it would be undercutting it. Maybe if you call them they may be willing to sell you one. Ask if someone has tried it with the debut series just ordering one.

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post #303 of 1615 Old 04-03-2016, 03:43 PM
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I just recieved my B5 speakers yesterday and I have one question:

Is the UB5 going to be a more "forward" speaker? I'm not sure what else to call it. I know the imaging should be awesome with the concentric design but my b5 are just a bit short on the high end for me(especially with both of the grills on) and wonder if the concentrics are just inherently more dynamic on the high end? I would prefer my high end a bit more crispy than the b5 is providing atm.
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post #304 of 1615 Old 04-03-2016, 03:50 PM
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You guys talking about using center channels all across the front are on my wavelength.

I tried to bring up the issue in the Debut series thread and nobody touched it. One guy said something like "you will be the only one to try this"...yikes.

I see the MTM all over the place. Ascend 340 are exactly that, why isn't it used more for HT? All those diysoundgroup cinema speakers are MTM(cinema 8, 1099, etc)

I just wonder if using c5 instead of b5(yes the debut series) would add that extra midbass punch on the sides during movies.

Concentric speakers would be even better but the B5 have a nice round waveguide.

While I'm at it here I'll ask if you all think the uni-fi series will be "crisper" with a more dynamic top end. Is it inherent in the concentric design? The B5 is a little bit muted for me on the top end.

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post #305 of 1615 Old 04-03-2016, 04:42 PM
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You guys talking about using center channels all across the front are on my wavelength.

I tried to bring up the issue in the Debut series thread and nobody touched it. One guy said something like "you will be the only one to try this"...yikes.

I see the MTM all over the place. Ascend 340 are exactly that, why isn't it used more for HT? All those diysoundgroup cinema speakers are MTM(cinema 8, 1099, etc)

I just wonder if using c5 instead of b5(yes the debut series) would add that extra midbass punch on the sides during movies.

Concentric speakers would be even better but the B5 have a nice round waveguide.

While I'm at it here I'll ask if you all think the uni-fi series will be "crisper" with a more dynamic top end. Is it inherent in the concentric design? The B5 is a little bit muted for me on the top end.
I believe Andrew Jones mentioned somewhere that the high frequency driver in the Uni-fi series extends to around 25 khz so it doesn't start rolling off early like tweeters that don't extend as high. That would lead me to believe that the highs will be more authentic. I have also been wondering about using the center channel as LCR but not many comments about that. I was kinda hoping that Andrew would chime in. You can't buy the Uni-fi series in odd numbers anyway, so unless you can find someone to take the extra speaker off your hands you will be stuck with an extra unused speaker
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post #306 of 1615 Old 04-03-2016, 06:11 PM
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I was kinda hoping that Andrew would chime in. You can't buy the Uni-fi series in odd numbers anyway, so unless you can find someone to take the extra speaker off your hands you will be stuck with an extra unused speaker
Wait, you can't buy the center channel by itself? I know you can't buy the bookshelves by themselves but we are talking about using three centers, yes?

As for buying a single bookshelf you could split it with a friend, or someone from AVS that lives close enough to come over and get it.

I still want three center channels though and am waiting for someone to tell me I'm crazy and why. It seems like it would be awesome for movies.
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post #307 of 1615 Old 04-03-2016, 06:15 PM
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So far the consensus is what ever makes you happy. (If you like it then there is no perceived downside). If going though Amazon you can order three center and bookshelves do a good test then ship em back to Amazon the unwanted ones. (I have zero experience with great speakers I'm a noobie to "hi-fi")

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post #308 of 1615 Old 04-03-2016, 07:09 PM
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Wait, you can't buy the center channel by itself? I know you can't buy the bookshelves by themselves but we are talking about using three centers, yes?

As for buying a single bookshelf you could split it with a friend, or someone from AVS that lives close enough to come over and get it.

I still want three center channels though and am waiting for someone to tell me I'm crazy and why. It seems like it would be awesome for movies.
Sorry about that, yes, you can purchase the center channel in any number you desire. If Andrew Jones were to comment on whether or not using three Center Channels (standing vertically) would offer any advantage over three UB5s, that would be awesome.
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post #309 of 1615 Old 04-03-2016, 07:15 PM
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So far the consensus is what ever makes you happy. (If you like it then there is no perceived downside).

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Honestly this feedback is kind of frustrating to me. Kind of a "DUH" ya know? ...I just like to get as much info as I can before making money decisions in awesome places for information like this. The less I have to get speakers and send them back the better. People here have a ton of experience with various things audio. Heck Mr. Jones himself posts in here from time to time when he feels it's important enough. He designed these speakers so if anyone can tell me if the centers would or wouldn't work for L/R I believe he would be the guy.

I just decided half an hour ago that I am sending the Debut B5 back soon, going to give them a week or two more but I already know they don't have what I need for HT. They just seem so laid back to me. I need something more in my face but not annoying. Ascend acoustics 170 perhaps...

My question was more general information regarding concentric drivers as a whole and speaker layouts. Why wouldn't I want to use the MTM of a center channel on my L/R so that I have three matching speakers up front...that sort of thing. The information about the UB5 high end rolloff is promising and I am certainly looking forward to information once they come out. If I knew they were worth waiting for I'd wait.

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post #310 of 1615 Old 04-03-2016, 07:40 PM
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Sorry about that, yes, you can purchase the center channel in any number you desire. If Andrew Jones were to comment on whether or not using three Center Channels (standing vertically) would offer any advantage over three UB5s, that would be awesome.
Agree completely! In fact I'm hoping that the extra driver on either side would add that dialogue clarity I am looking for for HT. I'd just sit and wait for the UB5 release if that's the case.

But really, look at these cmt-340 speakers(award winning I'm told) http://ascendacoustics.com/ They are exactly the same MTM are they not? It's basically three awesome center channel speakers across the front just like I'm thinking of doing here.

These are on my list as well but truth be told I want the uni-fi series if it works the same way. I at the very least want to try them first just because I like what Andrew is doing here and want to support it.

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post #311 of 1615 Old 04-03-2016, 08:06 PM
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Agree completely! In fact I'm hoping that the extra driver on either side would add that dialogue clarity I am looking for for HT. I'd just sit and wait for the UB5 release if that's the case.

But really, look at these cmt-340 speakers(award winning I'm told) http://ascendacoustics.com/ They are exactly the same MTM are they not? It's basically three awesome center channel speakers across the front just like I'm thinking of doing here.

These are on my list as well but truth be told I want the uni-fi series if it works the same way. I at the very least want to try them first just because I like what Andrew is doing here and want to support it.
Yeh, those Ascends look mighty interesting and I especially like those dual 6.5 inch drivers. The Uni-fi series uses 5.25 midrange drivers and while their basic design seems to be the same (MTM), the Uni-fis are actually a three-way design. For what it's worth, I think you are doing the right thing by waiting for the Uni-fis to be released and hopefully by then, Andrew would chime in. With any luck, there would be a professional review or, better still, you will be able to audition them.
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post #312 of 1615 Old 04-05-2016, 12:03 AM
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I canceled my order for a pair of B6's and will wait for the UB5's. Seems like it would've made more sense if they had decided to make a "UB6" (concentric mid/tweeter with 6.5" woofer) instead of the UB5. The UB5 will provide better mids and highs, but won't have the improved low end of the B6.
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post #313 of 1615 Old 04-06-2016, 07:22 AM
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These are on my list as well but truth be told I want the uni-fi series if it works the same way. I at the very least want to try them first just because I like what Andrew is doing here and want to support it.
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Yeh, those Ascends look mighty interesting and I especially like those dual 6.5 inch drivers. The Uni-fi series uses 5.25 midrange drivers and while their basic design seems to be the same (MTM), the Uni-fis are actually a three-way design. For what it's worth, I think you are doing the right thing by waiting for the Uni-fis to be released and hopefully by then, Andrew would chime in. With any luck, there would be a professional review or, better still, you will be able to audition them.
Has anyone tried calling Elac to see if they have knowledgeable CSRs who can answer these questions (using 3 centers, and high frequencys of UBs vs Debuts)?
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post #314 of 1615 Old 04-06-2016, 01:57 PM
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Well if you look at the centers vs. the LR in the Debut series (or even the Unifi series i think) you'll see the C does not go as low as the L/R. I want to use the center as L/C/R as well, assuming the twin mid bass drivers would give more bottom end but not according to the publishes specs from ELAC.

Yes, the Ascend 340's are well known for the L/C/R option but good luck getting a pair. They almost seem to be a feeder into the higher end Ascend bookies and when you call they push hard to move up; at least thats been my experience. The higher end Ascends are supposed to be spectacular for the price, but that's a big jump from the 340s. The 340s are a good bit larger than the ELACs in case that matters.

Yes, please get the 340s as L/C/R and see how you like them and let us know.

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post #315 of 1615 Old 04-06-2016, 02:03 PM
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Andrew Jones specifically addressed the Q about a UB6 in an earlier thread on this forum, though I can't recall where. My understanding of his answer is that Andrew did not feel the larger 6" was justified for any real benefit to the line.

That seemed odd to me but he's designed the bonkers out of everything he's done since his KEF & TAD/Pioneer days so one assumes he knows what he's doing.

I'm not going to argue with him.

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post #316 of 1615 Old 04-06-2016, 02:48 PM
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I don't think dual drivers necessarily play deeper. I think they tend to be more efficient and may play louder, but not necessarily deeper. Since deeper bass may play louder with dual drivers it may seem like they're playing deeper but I think you're just getting more spl's of the same bass and you may feel it a little more since its louder. Might be better off spending the money on adding another sub than spending it on 3 centers. But that's the same issue -- another sub means more spl's but not necessarily deeper bass.
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post #317 of 1615 Old 04-06-2016, 05:45 PM
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I don't think dual drivers necessarily play deeper. I think they tend to be more efficient and may play louder, but not necessarily deeper. Since deeper bass may play louder with dual drivers it may seem like they're playing deeper but I think you're just getting more spl's of the same bass and you may feel it a little more since its louder. Might be better off spending the money on adding another sub than spending it on 3 centers. But that's the same issue -- another sub means more spl's but not necessarily deeper bass.
Actually, "size does matter". In driver design it is not everything but all else being equal the greater surface area of a larger cone will play deeper. If you look on on Elac's site for example, they themselves spec the Debut F6 as extending a touch deeper than the Uni-Fi tower, despite the Uni-Fi having one more active bass cone (3 x 5.25 vs 2 x 6.5).

I have wondered myself if I would not will end up reaching for the F6 as opposed to the Uni-Fi tower for this very reason (I am a two channel guy and not interested in subs). I am quite happy with my B6's in the upper mid / treble area so I can see myself forgoing the added benefits of the Uni-Fi driver design for the bass extension of the F6...
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post #318 of 1615 Old 04-06-2016, 09:17 PM
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Sorry, I wasn't referring to driver size. I was referring to a speaker with 2 drivers vs 1 such as comparing the b5 to the c5. Yes, usually larger drivers tend to go deeper. However dual drivers don't necessarily go deeper than 1 driver -- assuming the drivers are the same size/model and the cabinet design is relatively the same.
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post #319 of 1615 Old 04-07-2016, 03:34 AM
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In what I have read (not being an acoustic engineer) multiple bass drivers, whether 2 or 3 or 6, all contribute to summed bass output and extension. The cabinet design is larger in most of the Centers in any given manufacturer line up compared to bookshelf designs. The same multiple bass drivers in tower designs have even more bass extension b/c of the larger volume of the cabinet. So at least two parameters for lower extension out put are met and this is where I get confused.

The use of multiple bass drivers to narrow the front area came about to some extent to combat the Spouse Acceptance Factor and to get the bass they had to go to multiple bass drivers in a "line array"

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post #320 of 1615 Old 04-07-2016, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by atabea View Post
Sorry about that, yes, you can purchase the center channel in any number you desire. If Andrew Jones were to comment on whether or not using three Center Channels (standing vertically) would offer any advantage over three UB5s, that would be awesome.
I actually asked Andrew that exact question at their Debut open house last year (using 3 centers as LCR) He said that they should work very well.
I currently am running 3 X Chane A2rx-C's as my LCR & loving it. I rotated the tweeters in the L&R's to match the dispersion alignment with the center (since Debuts have round tweeters, that isn't needed there)

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post #321 of 1615 Old 04-07-2016, 11:13 AM
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W...
I still want three center channels though and am waiting for someone to tell me I'm crazy and why. It seems like it would be awesome for movies.
What is a Center speaker but an MTM bookshelf laid over on it side?

There nothing special about a Center that precludes it from other uses.

If you want to use 3 Centers in what I assume is a Left/Center/Right arrangement, there is no reason why that wouldn't work exceptionally well.

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-438082-...r-speaker.aspx

I suspect three of these would make for a great system ... assuming you don't mind spending $1050 to get it.

Logically though two would be placed Vertically, and the Center placed Horizontally. Though being 3-way speakers, horizontal placement is less of a problem.

There are speaker much like the Elac Uni-Fi UC5 Center that are classified as LCR speakers, which of course means left/center/right.

I see no problem here.

Though the Uni-Fi Center is rated at 4 ohms, so you need a pretty strong amp to drive 3 of them.

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post #322 of 1615 Old 04-07-2016, 11:33 AM
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Andrew Jones specifically addressed the Q about a UB6 in an earlier thread on this forum, though I can't recall where. My understanding of his answer is that Andrew did not feel the larger 6" was justified for any real benefit to the line.

...

A 6.5" bass driver is actually about TWICE as big as a 5" bass driver. I would say that is a significant increase.

Though pure speculation, I suspect they limited the Uni-Fi speakers until they found out about the success of the Debut line. The Uni-Fi came very quickly after the Debut, so I suspect they were designed in parallel.

Given what we can only assume are better drives in the Uni-Fi, I suspect the made the tactical marketing decision to hold off on production of 6.5" bass drivers until they had some sense of the volume of sales the could expect.

If the line (both lines) are successful, then they could release 6.5" models as the next phase - perhaps in a year or two.

Again, that's speculation.

Elac does well in the EU, though limited awareness of them in the UK. So breaking into the worldwide market with the Debut series was something of a risk. I suspect, the Uni-Fi, so close on the heels of the Debut, was an even bigger risk.

Whether my speculation is true or not, we can only wait and see.

Steve/bluewizad

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post #323 of 1615 Old 04-07-2016, 05:45 PM
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Yep, I agree with your assessment, but I was just restating what Andrew had said re. 5.25 vs 6.5 in the Uni-Fi series.

To your example, Elac initially said the F5 would be the only tower offered, then brought out the F6 later. So yes, the Uni-Fi B6/C6 might be coming soon.

One can hope.

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post #324 of 1615 Old 04-07-2016, 08:24 PM
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I found this interesting tidbit of info over in the diysoundgroup area in a thread regarding the new 1299s. This is what Tux, the designer of the very popular 1099s and now these 1299(both three way speakers), said about the benefit of the MTM design:

"It's a bit of a long technical answer. I've gone over it a few times in the great big 1099 thread. But basically with the woofer top and bottom like that, they cause vertical directivity. So the amount of sound the hits the floor and ceiling is limited. The good part in this is there are fewer reflections coming to the listener. Also helps reduce suck outs cause by the floor or ceiling."

I can speculate obviously but what is "suck out" exactly? I also wonder if this can be read as: "The MTM limits the horizontal soundstage." So what is more important? I suppose it is all perspective and subjective like many things around here. "try them and see how it sounds"...

I'm a weekend warrior woodworker and I can't deny the pull I'm feeling from the DIY crowd. I think I'm going to try the UC5 across the front when they come out and if that doesn't work for me I'm going to try my hand at some DIY speakers. Maybe some Fusion 8 or 893s...

I want the Elacs to work though. I dropped the B5s off at the UPS store today for return and my last thought about them was "man these things are so light." I was holding the box with both speakers in one hand up as I reached in the car to get the shipping label and had no trouble. I can't help but wonder how amazing those same drivers would sound in a GOOD cabinet with proper bracing.

The uni-fi series looks to be heavier, so there is that.

Last edited by Snausy; 04-07-2016 at 08:31 PM.
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post #325 of 1615 Old 04-07-2016, 08:46 PM
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Well if you look at the centers vs. the LR in the Debut series (or even the Unifi series i think) you'll see the C does not go as low as the L/R. I want to use the center as L/C/R as well, assuming the twin mid bass drivers would give more bottom end but not according to the publishes specs from ELAC.

Yes, the Ascend 340's are well known for the L/C/R option but good luck getting a pair. They almost seem to be a feeder into the higher end Ascend bookies and when you call they push hard to move up; at least thats been my experience. The higher end Ascends are supposed to be spectacular for the price, but that's a big jump from the 340s. The 340s are a good bit larger than the ELACs in case that matters.

Yes, please get the 340s as L/C/R and see how you like them and let us know.
Which is why we have subwoofers to cover the low end I guess. The base response of a center channel speaker is about the last thing I'm thinking about when I'm crossing them all at 80 anyway. But are the MIDS stronger with MTM? Now THAT is something that I be thinking about and am. I would assume so but do not know.

As for the guys over at ascend acoustics I would just order them, I wouldn't even bother talking to them on the phone. I do so much research before buying that usually I am the LAST guy you are going to be able to upsell(and they find that out rather quickly when they try). I am kind of no nonsense in that regard. "you are telling me that your award winning speakers aren't good enough? Can I get a pair? Yes? Great send them over. Yes yes those seirra's are really nice but I don't want a ribbon tweeter for my home theater setup...blah blah blah. "

I am patiently waiting for the elac uc5 and am going to get two at first to see how they sound in stereo. If all is well I'll add another for the center and we are off...

Thanks Christoofar for that input. Very close to the horses mouth indeed!
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post #326 of 1615 Old 04-08-2016, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Snausy View Post
...

I can speculate obviously but what is "suck out" exactly? I also wonder if this can be read as: "The MTM limits the horizontal soundstage." So what is more important? I suppose it is all perspective and subjective like many things around here. "try them and see how it sounds"...

...
The Horizontal MTM Center is a flawed design. We don't use it because it is good, we use it because it is necessary. Though if it is a 2.5-way or 3-way, the problems disappears.

MTM because of the distance between the woofers cause LOBING. Which mean at about 45° to either side of the center line, there are drop outs in the sound output. Not a problem typically as you are sitting in the center in the Prime Seat. But the problem does exist.

However, if you tip a MTM on its end, more like a bookshelf speaker, those Lobes are now above and below the Center line where no one really sits. Above and below are the floor and ceiling.

Steve/bluewizard
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post #327 of 1615 Old 04-08-2016, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
The Horizontal MTM Center is a flawed design. We don't use it because it is good, we use it because it is necessary. Though if it is a 2.5-way or 3-way, the problems disappears.

MTM because of the distance between the woofers cause LOBING. Which mean at about 45° to either side of the center line, there are drop outs in the sound output. Not a problem typically as you are sitting in the center in the Prime Seat. But the problem does exist.

However, if you tip a MTM on its end, more like a bookshelf speaker, those Lobes are now above and below the Center line where no one really sits. Above and below are the floor and ceiling.

Steve/bluewizard
Ah, well then. So I am hearing that if I was to use the three-way uc5 on end across the front then there would be absolutely no issues at all. Is that correct?

This is a bedroom home theater so the listing position is rather fixed and won't be going up and down on the vertical plane.
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post #328 of 1615 Old 04-08-2016, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Snausy View Post
Honestly this feedback is kind of frustrating to me. Kind of a "DUH" ya know? ...I just like to get as much info as I can before making money decisions in awesome places for information like this. The less I have to get speakers and send them back the better. People here have a ton of experience with various things audio. Heck Mr. Jones himself posts in here from time to time when he feels it's important enough. He designed these speakers so if anyone can tell me if the centers would or wouldn't work for L/R I believe he would be the guy.

I just decided half an hour ago that I am sending the Debut B5 back soon, going to give them a week or two more but I already know they don't have what I need for HT. They just seem so laid back to me. I need something more in my face but not annoying. Ascend acoustics 170 perhaps...

My question was more general information regarding concentric drivers as a whole and speaker layouts. Why wouldn't I want to use the MTM of a center channel on my L/R so that I have three matching speakers up front...that sort of thing. The information about the UB5 high end rolloff is promising and I am certainly looking forward to information once they come out. If I knew they were worth waiting for I'd wait.
You know what...? I will give you the real McCoy, the real thing that nobody wants you to know because of marketing purposes...
Between an LRC configuration of UB5 + UC5 + UB5 vs UC5 + UC5 + UC5 (in vertical configuration) which one is better? The latter one of course !

Why is that? Because an UC5 standing vertical has an MTM configuration created by Joseph D'Appolito which has the best vertical dispersion and the least lobbing issues. And since this aint a standar MTM speaker because it has a concentric-coaxial midbass/tweeter driver, its even better ! Not because i say so, its a fact and basic acoustics laws. Just check out the design of the Kef R500 and you will find the same drivers configuration as a Vertical UC5.

Second point : UB5 has only 1 x 5.25-inch aluminum cone bass driver...and UC5 has 2 x 5.25-inch aluminum cone. Which one do you think will have less distortion ? The UC5 of course !
UB5 cabinet volume is 1078.68 and UC5 is 1586.29. UC5 is better, you will get less enclosure compression, more dynamics.

Third point: This way you will be using the same speaker, which means absolute soundstage coherence, timbre matching and dispersion. Even though all the UniFi is timbre matched designed and uses the same components a UB5+UC5+UB5 means you are using 2 kind of speakers instead of the same for LCR...for practical purpouses it very hard for untrained ears to hear any significant difference anyway (don't listen to those forums cry babies who spends more time complaining about this than listening to music ), but it's still a point in favour for the UC5 x 3 (vertical)

Thats at least the conclusions i've made over my personal research and real life experience in the pursuit of the highest quality sound reproduction over the years.
I hope you find it useful. At the end of the day both configurations will sound awesome and please 99% of listeners. But one is meant for the highest performance, and the other one for convenience.

"At the Core , its all about the music" S. Jobs

Last edited by tecnogadget; 04-08-2016 at 10:45 AM.
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post #329 of 1615 Old 04-08-2016, 11:03 AM
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Has anyone heard about the possibility of an Atmos add on for the Uni-Fi series? I know there is one in the Debut series. It appears that the finish is different between the two lines. I'd be interested in a matching Atmos unit for my UB5's.
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post #330 of 1615 Old 04-08-2016, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tecnogadget View Post
You know what...? I will give you the real McCoy, the real thing that nobody wants you to know because of marketing purposes...
Between an LRC configuration of UB5 + UC5 + UB5 vs UC5 + UC5 + UC5 (in vertical configuration) which one is better? The latter one of course !

Why is that? Because an UC5 standing vertical has an MTM configuration created by Joseph D'Appolito which has the best vertical dispersion and the least lobbing issues. And since this aint a standar MTM speaker because it has a concentric-coaxial midbass/tweeter driver, its even better ! Not because i say so, its a fact and basic acoustics laws. Just check out the design of the Kef R500 and you will find the same drivers configuration as a Vertical UC5.

Second point : UB5 has only 1 x 5.25-inch aluminum cone bass driver...and UC5 has 2 x 5.25-inch aluminum cone. Which one do you think will have less distortion ? The UC5 of course !
UB5 cabinet volume is 1078.68 and UC5 is 1586.29. UC5 is better, you will get less enclosure compression, more dynamics.

Third point: This way you will be using the same speaker, which means absolute soundstage coherence, timbre matching and dispersion. Even though all the UniFi is timbre matched designed and uses the same components a UB5+UC5+UB5 means you are using 2 kind of speakers instead of the same for LCR...for practical purpouses it very hard for untrained ears to hear any significant difference anyway (don't listen to those forums cry babies who spends more time complaining about this than listening to music ), but it's still a point in favour for the UC5 x 3 (vertical)

Thats at least the conclusions i've made over my personal research and real life experience in the pursuit of the highest quality sound reproduction over the years.
I hope you find it useful. At the end of the day both configurations will sound awesome and please 99% of listeners. But one is meant for the highest performance, and the other one for convenience.
And BOOM, there it is. Now we are talking!

Not sure about profit margins on the various speakers (ub5 pair vs. Uc5) but they can worry about that with someone else. I am here, in these forums, to get the real McCoy! Then use said McCoy to purchase the set of speakers that will last and continue to impress for 10+ years with little to no buyers remorse.

That was two bits of info, not just two cents... Much appreciated. Always did love me some McCoy...the real stuff anyway.

Three Uc5 on end across the front under my screen is looking really good about now. Maybe sound even better. Cannot wait for them to come out!
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