ELAC Uni-FI B5 Bookshelf Speaker at CES 2016 - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 608Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #181 of 1615 Old 02-02-2016, 07:47 PM
Advanced Member
 
Walkamo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 681
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 237 Post(s)
Liked: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Hi,

Can you elaborate on how the frequency response specs are calculated/what they mean? Are the quoted Hz numbers a f3, f6, or f10 point on the low end?

Also, are you working on a UB6/UC6 in the future with 6.5 inch woofers instead of 5.25 inch woofers?

I can't wait for the production UB5/UC5 models to come out so I can see the first reviews. What I have read so far is remarkable and I'm very curious how this set of speakers will compete with like priced competitors like the SVS Primes.

TIA
Hi Plasma,

There is no current plan for a UB6. After evaluating the UB5 we did not see a need for a 6.5 version.

Thanks,

Chris Walker
ELAC America
haraldo likes this.
Walkamo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #182 of 1615 Old 02-03-2016, 04:49 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Hello, I am an AVSforum Noob here. I have been Prowling around to get Info on the Debut series when they were announced and Now I see the Uni Fi being announced. I have noticed some comparing the Debut to the Uni-fi . I just wanted to point out that I believe the Debut's are rated at 6 Ohms and the Uni-Fi are rated at 4 Ohms. I am not up on HT amps and gear as I mostly play in the 2 Channel Arena where many amps will work at 4 Ohms. Looking at the specs on some of the lower end Sony HT Amps there is really No Specs on Impedance or any of the typical specs I am used to with a 2 channel amp just a bunch of fluff about the massive amounts of things you can plug in or stream,. Pioneer does list "Guaranteed Impedance" at 6- 16 Ohms on their entry level receiver. Harmon Kardon Seems to list power specs at 6 and 8 Ohms. Oddly it seems they only mention max specs at 2 channels and not what the output of each channel is. Is this is the norm for HT receivers? If so that's fine. I find it odd though. In any Event it seems the Debut line Falls within the Range of some of these random entry level amps when it comes to impedance but the Uni Fi Does not. All my amps are rated at 4 ohm so this does not affect me if I can bring My self to sell the B6's I have to upgrade. I am curious however if the seeming lack of specs on the actual audio portions of these Home theater receivers and the focus on all of the new features and things you can plug in( from my point of view )can be misleading in that these amps may just play fine with 4Ohm Loads but it is just not stated.
bigro is offline  
post #183 of 1615 Old 02-03-2016, 05:53 AM
Senior Member
 
Chucka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 497
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post
Hi Chucka,

It is a possibility, however it will not be at the same launch time, maybe a month or so later.

Thanks

Chris Walker
ELAC America
Thank you Chris. I think this would be a good move for ELAC as it would expand your Uni-Fi sales potential without adding much new development work.
Chucka is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #184 of 1615 Old 02-03-2016, 07:24 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 12,251
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2844 Post(s)
Liked: 1031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post
Hi Plasma,

There is no current plan for a UB6. After evaluating the UB5 we did not see a need for a 6.5 version.

Thanks,

Chris Walker
ELAC America
Ok, thanks. I don't need a 6.5 inch version, it's just that I don't want to get the 5.25 inch version and then find out a 6.5 inch version would soon follow. To avoid any what-ifs...

Does Elac offer a risk free trial on the current speaker offerings? And do you sell direct or via multiple retailers online/offline?

Samsung 55" MU8000
Yamaha RX-A2070
KEF Q150 Bookshelf x 5
Rythmik L12 Sealed Subwoofer
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #185 of 1615 Old 02-03-2016, 09:00 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I prefer the vinyl look over the wood veneer! Just my opinion

Last edited by Kingchip161; 02-03-2016 at 09:09 AM.
Kingchip161 is offline  
post #186 of 1615 Old 02-03-2016, 09:20 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Will the uni-fi speakers be sold through Amazon.com like the Debut line?

Also let's say I went with uni-fi speakers for my fronts and center. Would the new debut b4 or the b5 be a ok to use as my surround speakers?

Last edited by Kingchip161; 02-03-2016 at 09:28 AM.
Kingchip161 is offline  
post #187 of 1615 Old 02-03-2016, 06:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
steveting99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 3,384
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1848 Post(s)
Liked: 651
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigro View Post
Hello, I am an AVSforum Noob here. I have been Prowling around to get Info on the Debut series when they were announced and Now I see the Uni Fi being announced. I have noticed some comparing the Debut to the Uni-fi . I just wanted to point out that I believe the Debut's are rated at 6 Ohms and the Uni-Fi are rated at 4 Ohms. I am not up on HT amps and gear as I mostly play in the 2 Channel Arena where many amps will work at 4 Ohms. Looking at the specs on some of the lower end Sony HT Amps there is really No Specs on Impedance or any of the typical specs I am used to with a 2 channel amp just a bunch of fluff about the massive amounts of things you can plug in or stream,. Pioneer does list "Guaranteed Impedance" at 6- 16 Ohms on their entry level receiver. Harmon Kardon Seems to list power specs at 6 and 8 Ohms. Oddly it seems they only mention max specs at 2 channels and not what the output of each channel is. Is this is the norm for HT receivers? If so that's fine. I find it odd though. In any Event it seems the Debut line Falls within the Range of some of these random entry level amps when it comes to impedance but the Uni Fi Does not. All my amps are rated at 4 ohm so this does not affect me if I can bring My self to sell the B6's I have to upgrade. I am curious however if the seeming lack of specs on the actual audio portions of these Home theater receivers and the focus on all of the new features and things you can plug in( from my point of view )can be misleading in that these amps may just play fine with 4Ohm Loads but it is just not stated.
Hi bigro,

If no one has said so, welcome to AVS!

You might want to refer to post number 176 by the man himself (Andrew Jones) as he explained very well on how the Uni-FI B5 are rated for the nominal impedance of 4 ohms. Andrew actually gives the basis of how he determines the nominal rating of the speakers he designs, so it's a worthwhile read.

The vast majority of modern multi-channel HT receivers have their power output rated for 8 ohms nominal load into 2-channel "solid" stereo mode. Some manufacturers are nice enough to specify the frequency range such as 20Hz to 20kHz and advise the maximum THD as well. Not all do this, so buyer beware.

Bench testing for more than 2-channels is done normally in a separate review and as expected, the power drops off from the 2-channel specs. 5-channels driven may drop down to 70%, all 7-channels driven may drop further to 60%, etc. The trend is the more channels driven means lower per channel output. This is the norm for all modern HT receivers.

Even though modern HT receiver isn't rated for 4 ohms, the vast majority can drive the Uni-FI B5 up to moderate listening levels. Once you've employed bass management by directing the power hungry low frequencies to the more capable subs, most likely the loud reference level can be achieved.
imagic and psuKinger like this.

Marantz SR-7009, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, aTV, Harmony Home Control remote, KEF E301+T101, MiniDSP (2x4)+(10x10HD)+(DDRC-88A), Emotiva 2xXPA-5 (Gen2), Rythmik 2xF12G+2xF8, HiMedia Q16, LG 55EC9300.

Last edited by steveting99; 02-04-2016 at 05:36 PM. Reason: typo
steveting99 is offline  
post #188 of 1615 Old 02-04-2016, 09:30 AM
Member
 
crenca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewJ View Post
Just a note about the concerns over speaker impedance:
I rate them as 4 ohms because I follow the accepted standards for rating impedance, meaning that if a speaker is rated at 8 ohms for example, its minimum impedance should not fall below 80% of that, ie 6.4 ohms in this example.
For a 4 ohm speaker, that would be 3.2 ohms.
Now the standard makes no mention of what frequency that minimum impedance should occur, or over how wide a range.
Suppose the impedance dips low at just one very narrow frequency range. This is not likely to cause the amplifier much of a problem, as statistically there will not be much power delivered by a music source over such a narrow range.
Conversely, if the minimum impedance is maintained over a wide frequency range then there will be much higher power demands from the amplifier.
So, as usual, the specs are very limited in what they tell the casual observer about the capabilities of a given amplifier to match with a given loudspeaker. Saying that because it's a four ohm speaker it by default will not work with budget amplifiers is just plain wrong.
Now it is also the case that some manufacturers don't follow the standard rating system. They state a value for rated impedance, but the minimum value falls well below the 80% value. This is what gives the impedance rating a bad name, similar to the situation with amplifier power!
So, having said all of that, my 4 ohm rating is based on the value reaching the minimum over a very narrow frequency range, and being well above that over most of the frequency range, so I don't expect any real problems with relatively budget amplifiers.

Andrew

A very succinct and to the point description of the situation (ratings, etc.).

I would recommend Marantz as a "budget" solution (in the AVR space) to pair with ELAC's line. They are more honest about their ratings (they publish full bandwidth power ratings, 4 ohm ratings, etc.) and can handle a properly rated 4 ohm speaker such as Andrew's (thanks for sticking with the standards Andrew!). Emotiva is also good (that is what I am using currently).

p.s. My B6's rock (and I am a mostly jazz/classical guy )! Looking forward to putting your F6's or the uni-fi equivalent in the living room in the near future...
crenca is offline  
post #189 of 1615 Old 02-04-2016, 09:43 AM
Member
 
crenca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigro View Post
...I am not up on HT amps and gear as I mostly play in the 2 Channel Arena where many amps will work at 4 Ohms. Looking at the specs on some of the lower end Sony HT Amps there is really No Specs on Impedance or any of the typical specs I am used to with a 2 channel amp just a bunch of fluff about the massive amounts of things you can plug in or stream,. Pioneer does list "Guaranteed Impedance" at 6- 16 Ohms on their entry level receiver. Harmon Kardon Seems to list power specs at 6 and 8 Ohms. Oddly it seems they only mention max specs at 2 channels and not what the output of each channel is. Is this is the norm for HT receivers? If so that's fine. I find it odd though... I am curious however if the seeming lack of specs on the actual audio portions of these Home theater receivers and the focus on all of the new features and things you can plug in( from my point of view )can be misleading in that these amps may just play fine with 4Ohm Loads but it is just not stated.
Yep, that is the situation in a nutshell. Even these ratings on typical (what I call "Best Buy" AVR's - sorry Best Buy) that are published are very suspect. it is odd coming from the 2 channel world where amp ratings are more "honest" and "transparent" compared the budget AVR world. When you are trying to cram enough amplification for the latest surround spec and all that other functionality into a sub $500 box, well, "comprimises" are going to be made. However, the market (i.e. the consumers) seem to want it this way. Not that I blame them, I am cheap to
crenca is offline  
post #190 of 1615 Old 02-04-2016, 01:38 PM
Senior Member
 
abd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 417
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 242 Post(s)
Liked: 189
I saw this video on youtube with footage of the uni-fi b5's playing at CES. I don't look much into speaker demo's online since they're limited by the recording device and the speakers you're playing back with. However, when I heard this the bass was very surprising. I first thought there has to be a sub somewhere, and even the person taking the video asked if there's a sub. While hearing these through an online video doesn't reveal much, I can at least see why so many were impressed hearing these. I'm looking forward to the release date.


abd1 is offline  
post #191 of 1615 Old 02-05-2016, 04:17 AM
Member
 
grexeo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 74
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post
Hi Guys,

I am writing this post from Germany. We are currently discussing the Uni-Fi series coming to Europe. I think there is a possibility of this happening.

I will update everyone once it is decided.

Thanks,

Chris Walker
ELAC Americas
Hi Chris, I am in the UK and very excited at this possibly. Do you have a rough idea of when you expect the decision to be made?
grexeo is offline  
post #192 of 1615 Old 02-06-2016, 11:02 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The new Elac website is up just an FYI
Kingchip161 is offline  
post #193 of 1615 Old 02-06-2016, 12:09 PM
Member
 
crenca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingchip161 View Post
The new Elac website is up just an FYI
Link? The Elac.us site does not appear to be updated, however the Elac.com site does have the new F6 in the Debut line listed, as well as the new Uni-Fi line AND the new network music server and the new amp. You don't mean a third site I don't know about do you?
crenca is offline  
post #194 of 1615 Old 02-06-2016, 01:24 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Question for Andrew or any Elac representative:

Will there be a Uni-fi subwoofer, and if so about when? If not, do you recommend pairing the bookshelf 5's with the debut subwoofers or something else? Thanks in advance.

Here is the new website: It's just elac "." com. I guess I can't post links until I post more.
Justin Ernst is offline  
post #195 of 1615 Old 02-06-2016, 01:38 PM
Member
 
crenca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Ernst View Post
Question for Andrew or any Elac representative:

Will there be a Uni-fi subwoofer, and if so about when? If not, do you recommend pairing the bookshelf 5's with the debut subwoofers or something else? Thanks in advance.

Here is the new website: It's just elac "." com. I guess I can't post links until I post more.
Ok, that is the one that has both new speaker lines, the network music server and the new amp I referred to above - thanks for the conformation.
crenca is offline  
post #196 of 1615 Old 02-06-2016, 01:54 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by crenca View Post
Ok, that is the one that has both new speaker lines, the network music server and the new amp I referred to above - thanks for the conformation.
Ah. I was just assuming that because it had the info on the Uni-fi line that it was the new site. Not sure if there is something different as well.
Justin Ernst is offline  
post #197 of 1615 Old 02-07-2016, 07:47 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Very excited about the new options from Elac. Both Unify and their new electronics look like home runs and stupidly inexpensive.

Honestly, I've been drooling over GoldenEar, Benchmark, Parasound etc and those are typically in the thousands. I know Elac is not looking to compete with those proven brands.....oh, wait.

For Pete's sake Elac's integrated does everything I want and has cutting edge app integration too?!?!

100 watts of BASH (I think Elac claims 3rd generation) power, digital/analog inputs and DSP/Sub integration as well.

I thought MAYBE I could sneak in a Benchmark dac and amp for a total system at $5000. Or go the Elac Integrated route for $500.

So maybe the Elac won't compete with Benchmark to the nth degree, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over the difference.

So to Andrew or Chris - What does 3rd Gen BASH mean and can I have two scopes!
OldSchoolPolk is offline  
post #198 of 1615 Old 02-07-2016, 08:37 AM
Member
 
crenca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchoolPolk View Post

So to Andrew or Chris - What does 3rd Gen BASH mean and can I have two scopes!
I was wondering this as well. BASH actually does not have a website, and as it is an acronym I can't seem to find the company that actually licenses the IP (Intellectual Property). I am 99% it is a particular class H design, but beyond that I am unable to find any info. Does ELAC simply license the topology, or do they implement actual circuits that are built by BASH? What does "3rd generation" actually mean?
crenca is offline  
post #199 of 1615 Old 02-07-2016, 11:56 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by crenca View Post
Link? The Elac.us site does not appear to be updated, however the Elac.com site does have the new F6 in the Debut line listed, as well as the new Uni-Fi line AND the new network music server and the new amp. You don't mean a third site I don't know about do you?
I was referring to the global site elac.com
Kingchip161 is offline  
post #200 of 1615 Old 02-08-2016, 08:47 AM
Member
 
bgbkt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 25
I can't seem to find speaker dimensions on their website. Is it just me?
bgbkt is offline  
post #201 of 1615 Old 02-08-2016, 10:28 AM
Writer & Reviewer
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 8,226
Mentioned: 104 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2218 Post(s)
Liked: 3366
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgbkt View Post
I can't seem to find speaker dimensions on their website. Is it just me?
They're listed earlier in this thread.

 
If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite...
JimWilson is offline  
post #202 of 1615 Old 02-08-2016, 12:32 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgbkt View Post
I can't seem to find speaker dimensions on their website. Is it just me?
Try this link
http://elac.com/product/ub5/
Kingchip161 is offline  
post #203 of 1615 Old 02-10-2016, 03:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
atabea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,654
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 769 Post(s)
Liked: 650
I wonder how three of the uni-fi C5s, standing upright, would work in a LCR configuration, behind a AT screen. At $350 each--as opposed to $500 each for the uni-fi F5, could be and interesting setup if the C5 could be used vertically. Thoughts?
atabea is online now  
post #204 of 1615 Old 02-10-2016, 07:29 PM
Member
 
Dario33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Forgive me if this was mentioned already, but are the uni-fi's manufactured in Germany or China?
Dario33 is offline  
post #205 of 1615 Old 02-11-2016, 02:54 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dario33 View Post
Forgive me if this was mentioned already, but are the uni-fi's manufactured in Germany or China?
Germany is what I believe was said
Kingchip161 is offline  
post #206 of 1615 Old 02-12-2016, 09:59 AM
Member
 
bicyclejoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lansing MI
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingchip161 View Post
Germany is what I believe was said

I couldn't find an official statement but No, not Germany. Higher priced ELACs with ribbon tweeters are still made in Germany. I gladly pay extra for products sourced from countries that provide better protections for workers and nature but these Uni-FIs are very tempting.

I am looking forward to reading about first impressions of actual production examples.
psuKinger likes this.
bicyclejoe is offline  
post #207 of 1615 Old 02-12-2016, 10:21 AM
Member
 
crenca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 25
The Debut and the Uni-Fi line are both made in the same factory in China and with which Andrew J has a working relationship with going back to his Pioneer days according to an interview I watched on youtube...
crenca is offline  
post #208 of 1615 Old 02-12-2016, 10:44 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
atabea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,654
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 769 Post(s)
Liked: 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by bicyclejoe View Post
I couldn't find an official statement but No, not Germany. Higher priced ELACs with ribbon tweeters are still made in Germany. I gladly pay extra for products sourced from countries that provide better protections for workers and nature but these Uni-FIs are very tempting.

I am looking forward to reading about first impressions of actual production examples.
Me too
atabea is online now  
post #209 of 1615 Old 02-16-2016, 05:14 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: DuPage County, IL
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 1
I'm in the market for a stereo receiver and speakers for a 2.0 or 2.1 set up with a budget of $1000 for the two combined, which puts my speakers in the $500-$600 range max. I want the receiver to play internet radio and music streamed from my android smart phone. The leading contender at this point is the Onkyo TX-8160 rated 80 watts x 2 into 8 ohms.


Regarding Elac speakers, I see my options as either Uni-FI B5 in a 2.0 set up or Debut B5 with the Debut 10" sub.


I'm looking for advice as to which would be better.
Chitown Drifter is offline  
post #210 of 1615 Old 02-16-2016, 02:33 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: DuPage County, IL
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Bumping thread for advice RE: post #209.
Chitown Drifter is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Tags
elac , silliness

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off