Do I need to angle my ATMOS speakers more than they are? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 20 Old 02-11-2016, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Question Do I need to angle my ATMOS speakers more than they are?

So I just purchased the Klipsch RP-140SA up firing ATMOS speakers to place on top of my front speakers. Since I don't have a good idea of the sound dispersion of the speakers I'm curious if I need to prop them up?

My MLP is about 11' from the TV/front speakers. I know that's further than what I should have but the room requires that for now. The ATMOS speakers are only angled at 20 degrees. With 8 foot ceilings this calculates to a reflected position of only 3-4 feet in front of the speakers. In order for the reflected sound to be directed at the MLP I would need to raise the back of the speakers approximately 6 inches to get the angle to the required 50 degrees. This doesn't seem practical to me. As a last resort I could move the speakers to the back but my surrounds are the RP-250S and the ATMOS speakers wouldn't really sit on them very well.

Any ideas or am I overthinking the spread/reflection from the speakers?

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post #2 of 20 Old 02-11-2016, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Soccer1725 View Post
So I just purchased the Klipsch RP-140SA up firing ATMOS speakers to place on top of my front speakers. Since I don't have a good idea of the sound dispersion of the speakers I'm curious if I need to prop them up?

My MLP is about 11' from the TV/front speakers. I know that's further than what I should have but the room requires that for now. The ATMOS speakers are only angled at 20 degrees. With 8 foot ceilings this calculates to a reflected position of only 3-4 feet in front of the speakers. In order for the reflected sound to be directed at the MLP I would need to raise the back of the speakers approximately 6 inches to get the angle to the required 50 degrees. This doesn't seem practical to me. As a last resort I could move the speakers to the back but my surrounds are the RP-250S and the ATMOS speakers wouldn't really sit on them very well.

Any ideas or am I overthinking the spread/reflection from the speakers?
I have the sp-t22a-lr atmos modules and the stock angle of the speaker did nothing for my atmos listening until I raised back end of the atmos speaker by 1 and 3/4 of an inch. Super happy with them now getting real good atmos effects now.
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post #3 of 20 Old 02-12-2016, 02:58 AM
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Don't get caught up in the numbers, tilt then so that they give you the best effect at your MLP, no need to over think it.

*Warning* None of my suggestions, ideas or even thoughts have any WAF, in any way!
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post #4 of 20 Old 02-15-2016, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, got my X6200 in and set it up with the Klipsch speakers and unfortunately it's pretty underwhelming. The sound from the receiver in general is great. I love it but the ATMOS so far is not what I hoped. I think I am so far away that I have to tilt them too much. This ends up sounding like the sound is coming from the front speakers instead of bouncing off the ceiling. I may just have to find someway to get them to the back of the room on top of my surrounds and see if that works any better.

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post #5 of 20 Old 02-15-2016, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Soccer1725 View Post
Well, got my X6200 in and set it up with the Klipsch speakers and unfortunately it's pretty underwhelming. The sound from the receiver in general is great. I love it but the ATMOS so far is not what I hoped. I think I am so far away that I have to tilt them too much. This ends up sounding like the sound is coming from the front speakers instead of bouncing off the ceiling. I may just have to find someway to get them to the back of the room on top of my surrounds and see if that works any better.
Can you do in-ceiling speakers?
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post #6 of 20 Old 02-15-2016, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Can you do in-ceiling speakers?
Yes I can. I was just hoping to not have to hassle with it. Eventually I will probably move that way though.

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post #7 of 20 Old 02-15-2016, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Soccer1725 View Post
Yes I can. I was just hoping to not have to hassle with it. Eventually I will probably move that way though.
I have talked to a number of people now about Atmos and many of them told me flat out go with in-ceiling unless your room would simply not allow it. I am not saying trying to reflect sound off the ceiling is not possible, but in your case, it does not sound ideal. You know with in-ceiling speakers, assuming you have the right height, angle, etc, where the sound will end up.

Yes it is more of a hassle to run wires, etc, but you can save a lot on the speakers so the cost may be about equal in the end.
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post #8 of 20 Old 02-15-2016, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post
I have talked to a number of people now about Atmos and many of them told me flat out go with in-ceiling unless your room would simply not allow it. I am not saying trying to reflect sound off the ceiling is not possible, but in your case, it does not sound ideal. You know with in-ceiling speakers, assuming you have the right height, angle, etc, where the sound will end up.

Yes it is more of a hassle to run wires, etc, but you can save a lot on the speakers so the cost may be about equal in the end.
You have a recommendation for ceiling speakers? I would go with some Klipsch ones just to match but for these I guess I'm not to picky.

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post #9 of 20 Old 02-15-2016, 12:40 PM
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I would get these. Should match up well with your other Klipsch speakers:
http://www.designeraudiovideo.com/sp...3650-c-ii.html


http://www.klipsch.com/products/refe...#cdt-5650-c-ii
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post #10 of 20 Old 02-15-2016, 12:45 PM
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This is explained in youtube videos by Pioneer's Andrew Jones: You have to raise the volume of the dolby enabled speakers by 5-8 decibels louder than the rest of your speakers.the sound is going to be travelling upwards to the ceiling and then back downwards to the listener.You need to assist by making it louder.Some listeners will report underwhelming Atmos audio because the sound isn't making enough presence compared to the rest of the audio track.
RAISE THE VOLUME
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post #11 of 20 Old 02-15-2016, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by urbeenjammin View Post
This is explained in youtube videos by Pioneer's Andrew Jones: You have to raise the volume of the dolby enabled speakers by 5-8 decibels louder than the rest of your speakers.the sound is going to be travelling upwards to the ceiling and then back downwards to the listener.You need to assist by making it louder.Some listeners will report underwhelming Atmos audio because the sound isn't making enough presence compared to the rest of the audio track.
RAISE THE VOLUME

Great point, and in addition to this, make sure that you are selecting the correct type of speaker in your settings (Atmos enabled vs Ceiling speakers). If your AVR allows for it (as my Pioneer SC-99 does), once you select Atmos Enabled speakers in settings, you must also indicate the distance between the speaker and the ceiling. If you do this correctly, when you run the calibration software from the receiver, it will compensate for the additional travel distance (speaker ----> Ceiling ----> main listening position). Even after this is calibrated, the make up of your ceiling (tiles vs sheetrock etc..) can still reduce the quality of the reflected sound, so in this case you would need to increase the overall gain of the Atmos enabled speakers manually by adding another 3-5db if neccessary, as mentioned above. Personally that is what I have done and I love the results.

One other thing... The more comments I read in this forum about Atmos and even DTS:X, the more I feel like some folks might be missing the point of Object based audio. I believe that some are expecting these two new formats to behave like the old channel based audio where a specific sound was intentionally reproduced in a specific channel. So now when folks are listening, they expect the sound to come from specific point above them. In my experience so far, and from what I've seen and heard, the goal of these formats is to create a "seemless' audio transition and atmosphere that will make the use of ALL of the speakers available in your setup. This means that the base layer of "bed speakers" are included in the overall effect.

Before I upgraded my setup from 5.2.2 to 5.2.4, I was able to hear the front effects transitioning to the back of the room because the audio would travel along the speaker path from front to back using a combination of the front LCR speakers the Atmos speaker and the surrounds. after I added the additional rear Atmos Enabled speakers, the sound became fuller and the transition effect was extended because it now also used the back Atmos speakers in the process. I have a very tough room with angled walls/ceilings and only a small amount of flat/horizontal ceiling. I've taken my time to position the speakers so that I get the best overall reflective sound as well as base bed sound. Then I've further tweaked the enabled speakers by raising the gain after the calibration. The end result has been to my satisfaction, and when I play a movie or a demo clip in either Atmos or DSU, the trasition is seemless around the room, and I can sense the sphere of sound that is created around me. It makes the room feel larger as the sound is now more immersive.
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post #12 of 20 Old 02-15-2016, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by welldun View Post
Great point, and in addition to this, make sure that you are selecting the correct type of speaker in your settings (Atmos enabled vs Ceiling speakers). If your AVR allows for it (as my Pioneer SC-99 does), once you select Atmos Enabled speakers in settings, you must also indicate the distance between the speaker and the ceiling. If you do this correctly, when you run the calibration software from the receiver, it will compensate for the additional travel distance (speaker ----> Ceiling ----> main listening position). Even after this is calibrated, the make up of your ceiling (tiles vs sheetrock etc..) can still reduce the quality of the reflected sound, so in this case you would need to increase the overall gain of the Atmos enabled speakers manually by adding another 3-5db if neccessary, as mentioned above. Personally that is what I have done and I love the results.

One other thing... The more comments I read in this forum about Atmos and even DTS:X, the more I feel like some folks might be missing the point of Object based audio. I believe that some are expecting these two new formats to behave like the old channel based audio where a specific sound was intentionally reproduced in a specific channel. So now when folks are listening, they expect the sound to come from specific point above them. In my experience so far, and from what I've seen and heard, the goal of these formats is to create a "seemless' audio transition and atmosphere that will make the use of ALL of the speakers available in your setup. This means that the base layer of "bed speakers" are included in the overall effect.

Before I upgraded my setup from 5.2.2 to 5.2.4, I was able to hear the front effects transitioning to the back of the room because the audio would travel along the speaker path from front to back using a combination of the front LCR speakers the Atmos speaker and the surrounds. after I added the additional rear Atmos Enabled speakers, the sound became fuller and the transition effect was extended because it now also used the back Atmos speakers in the process. I have a very tough room with angled walls/ceilings and only a small amount of flat/horizontal ceiling. I've taken my time to position the speakers so that I get the best overall reflective sound as well as base bed sound. Then I've further tweaked the enabled speakers by raising the gain after the calibration. The end result has been to my satisfaction, and when I play a movie or a demo clip in either Atmos or DSU, the trasition is seemless around the room, and I can sense the sphere of sound that is created around me. It makes the room feel larger as the sound is now more immersive.
Thanks, both of you. I'll raise the volume of the two speakers when I get home and try it out. I do have the receiver setup properly for the speakers but thanks for the reminder. I'll let you know what I hear.
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post #13 of 20 Old 02-15-2016, 02:00 PM
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Thanks, both of you. I'll raise the volume of the two speakers when I get home and try it out. I do have the receiver setup properly for the speakers but thanks for the reminder. I'll let you know what I hear.
This was a good little read here. I have a set of atmos speakers too, and was underwhelmed because I may have been listening a little to hard, to see if it was over my head or not. I think I need to angle them a bit, and turn them up a little. I was wondering that as well, and am now glad that you mentioned that. I think I'll try that, before I write them off completely and send them back. Thanks fellas!!


-Jared
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Originally Posted by jlb2782 View Post
This was a good little read here. I have a set of atmos speakers too, and was underwhelmed because I may have been listening a little to hard, to see if it was over my head or not. I think I need to angle them a bit, and turn them up a little. I was wondering that as well, and am now glad that you mentioned that. I think I'll try that, before I write them off completely and send them back. Thanks fellas!!

-Jared
Glad to help. I also wanted to point out that if you are moving the speakers (even it is just changing the angle) you should re-run the calibration software again. small changes in speaker position can make a significant difference in sound imaging and phasing, so I recommend re-calibration after making the changes. Once you have moved the speakers and re-calibrated the room, take a listen to the system as is. Pay special attention to the overall effect of what you are listening to. once you've played the same file a few times over, then start to make uniform increases to the Atmos Enabled speakers. just be sure to raise them all by the same amount each time.
for example, if your Front Left Atmos speaker is calibrated to (+2db) and your Front Right Atmos speaker is calibrated to (+2.5db) and now you've decided to manually increase the overall gain of the Atmos speakers by an additional (+3db), then the final settings should be : Front Left Atmos speaker (+5db) and the Front Right Atmos speaker (+5.5db).
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post #15 of 20 Old 02-15-2016, 03:06 PM
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I have spent some time tweaking and listening closely to my 5.1.2 setup and what I have found was mentioned above. The atmos speakers fill out the sound and don't/shouldn't sound like their own sound channel. I think I did the same thing as many and really tried to hear things from above me. I expected to hear rain falling on my head when that isn't necessarily what was happening. It just created a fuller sound that was more atmospheric. I think perhaps the idea of overhead sound throws people off, maybe it should be called atmospheric audio instead. This is especially noticeable when listening to some of the ATMOS demos with exaggerated effects. The sound is much more precise and fuller with ATMOS than without. Yet I don't hear stuff flying over my head in descrete sound channels which I do believe may even ruin the effect because you could then localize the atmos speaker and the sound stage that was being created falls apart since they are not handled like separate sound channels. ATMOS, from what I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong) is an attempt to place objects in the room in 3D space and not necessarily to have things hover above your head although it's one of the effects that can be created. Thinking of ATMOS as 2 or 4 extra speaker channels is not technically correct to what ATMOS actually does.
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Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
I have spent some time tweaking and listening closely to my 5.1.2 setup and what I have found was mentioned above. The atmos speakers fill out the sound and don't/shouldn't sound like their own sound channel. I think I did the same thing as many and really tried to hear things from above me. I expected to hear rain falling on my head when that isn't necessarily what was happening. It just created a fuller sound that was more atmospheric. I think perhaps the idea of overhead sound throws people off, maybe it should be called atmospheric audio instead. This is especially noticeable when listening to some of the ATMOS demos with exaggerated effects. The sound is much more precise and fuller with ATMOS than without. Yet I don't hear stuff flying over my head in descrete sound channels which I do believe may even ruin the effect because you could then localize the atmos speaker and the sound stage that was being created falls apart since they are not handled like separate sound channels. ATMOS, from what I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong) is an attempt to place objects in the room in 3D space and not necessarily to have things hover above your head although it's one of the effects that can be created. Thinking of ATMOS as 2 or 4 extra speaker channels is not technically correct to what ATMOS actually does.
Ok, so that being said, and based on that, you feel as its worth it? Meaning, you like it better with, than without? A meaningful upgrade? I bought some speakers (cheap ones for now) thinking I was going to hear raindrops over head. Or a helicopter flying from the rear, to overhead, to the front. Like I said, I'm going to make the adjustments recommended above before I make my final assessment, but wanted to see how you felt overall. Im glad I stumbled upon this. Still learning about all this, so this is great.
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post #17 of 20 Old 02-15-2016, 04:48 PM
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Do I need to angle my ATMOS speakers more than they are?

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Originally Posted by jlb2782 View Post
Ok, so that being said, and based on that, you feel as its worth it? Meaning, you like it better with, than without? A meaningful upgrade? I bought some speakers (cheap ones for now) thinking I was going to hear raindrops over head. Or a helicopter flying from the rear, to overhead, to the front. Like I said, I'm going to make the adjustments recommended above before I make my final assessment, but wanted to see how you felt overall. Im glad I stumbled upon this. Still learning about all this, so this is great.

Yes I like it better than without. There are some effects that would be lost. Atmos allows the content creator to take into account your entire system. They can place objects in 3D space using a combination of all your speakers to give full effect rather than simply hearing stuff panning and zooming between individual speakers. I think it works well when you stop trying to hear sounds from above and listen to the sound field being created.

For my setup I had to increase the Atmos speakers 5db above what Audyssey set them in my receiver. This provided a more immersive effect. I am still trying to figure the optimum seating distance but what I hear now is better than what I hear without it.
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Yes I like it better than without. There are some effects that would be lost. Atmos allows the content creator to take into account your entire system. They can place objects in 3D space using a combination of all your speakers to give full effect rather than simply hearing stuff panning and zooming between individual speakers. I think it works well when you stop trying to hear sounds from above and listen to the sound field being created.

For my setup I had to increase the Atmos speakers 5db above what Audyssey set them in my receiver. This provided a more immersive effect. I am still trying to figure the optimum seating distance but what I hear now is better than what I hear without it.
Great, I will continue to try that. Thank you.
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post #19 of 20 Old 02-16-2016, 08:57 AM
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Do I need to angle my ATMOS speakers more than they are?

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Great, I will continue to try that. Thank you.

I forgot to mention that my towers were relatively short compared to what I see being sold as Dolby Atmos speakers today. I had to raise them up about 8-9 inches by building a small platform for them to sit on top of. Ideally I guess you want the Atmos module to be just above ear level and if that isn't possible then right at ear level would work. This helps prevent sound leakage being heard from the mlp. My towers with the Atmos add-on speakers are 40" total in height. Most Atmos towers I see are between 39-44inches in height so I am at around that level now. Before it was about 32" with the Atmos speakers sitting on top. It just helped provide a better result. I went cheap and simply cut some plywood out and sat it on top of a couple concrete blocks. Eventually I will build a proper platform and make it fit the decor. This was just a quick experiment that cost me less than $10 total.

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post #20 of 20 Old 09-21-2018, 07:37 AM
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I have 12’ ceilings with 4 Polk V65’s as my height channel speakers, about 3’ behind and 4’ in front of my sofa.

These speakers have pretty wide dispersion, and although I can pivot the angle the tweeters, I’m wondering if I should.

Any suggestions?


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