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post #1 of 43 Old 07-04-2016, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Starting from scratch, need advice on what to demo/buy

Hi there!

I've decided to take the plunge and finally get a good home theater system. I've just ordered a LG E6 TV and the Samsung UHD player, but I can't have great video and poor sound! I know car audio fairly well, but I'm totally lost when it comes to home audio! Help me AVS! You're my only hope!

I'll be using the system almost exclusively for movies and TV, with the occasional (but rare) bit of music listening. The system will be going into my apartment living room, which is 15x14 and opens up into a roughly 8x14 kitchen.

I don't have much room on the front wall where the TV will be going as I have large DVD cabinets on either side of the TV stand, so I'm hoping for a solution which isn't terribly wide for front speakers

My budget is around $4k max for speakers+sub+receiver, though if I can get great sound lower than that I'm happy with that too. If I need to spend more..let me know and I can think about it.

I really appreciate your help!
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post #2 of 43 Old 07-04-2016, 05:40 PM
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$4K is a very generous budget...in a small apartment you'll be plenty fine with about 1/2 of that though.

Here's a good place to start, to familiarize yourself with some speakers:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...nergy-kef.html
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #3 of 43 Old 07-04-2016, 06:03 PM - Thread Starter
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That's an awesome thread! Thank you for posting that! I've read through the first post and it's very informative. From that post the Chane and QEF speakers sound like they might appeal to me. Will go back to the remaining 24 pages later tonight. With my space and planned usage would you recommend doing a 2.0 setup, a 5.1 setup, or something else entirely?

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post #4 of 43 Old 07-04-2016, 06:55 PM
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It depends on your taste in viewing content...if you watch a lot of blockbuster action flicks and want to be sonically immersed then yes 5.1 ... if you're more into dramas, comedies, sports, documentaries, news, etc. you will be fine going 2.1 or 3.1 with a modest subwoofer. It also depends on your loudness preferences, though in an apartment you probably don't have a lot of choice in that. Generally I'd recommend bookshelf speakers over towers.

The best bang for the buck speakers are sold exclusively online, so you might want to deliberately budget at least $100-200 for shipping fees and audition a couple different pairs of speakers. (Don't order an entire 5 speaker set at one time, just order a pair of their bookshelf speakers and pick one you like best, THEN order the rest of the setup.) This may seem like a lot of trouble, but the upside is, you have 30-45 days (depending on the company) to see how the speakers sound in YOUR room (individual room acoustics being a HUGE factor) and with YOUR equipment. Plus you get to avoid pushy and/or unsavory salespeople, paying local sales tax, etc.

A good resource for listening is this CD:
https://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Demo...y+listening+cd

There are a couple of internet-direct speakers which weren't included in that mega-thread: Ascend, SVS, and Hsu. The first 2 give you free return shipping so I'd recommend including them in your home auditions since they'd basically be risk-free.
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #5 of 43 Old 07-05-2016, 12:27 AM
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As others have stated, SVS and Ascend are great companies to start with. They offer 30+ days for trial.

I was in your exact position not too long ago myself. You can get one hell of a system for 4K. Accessories for less has some great refurbished receivers for great prices. I got my Denon x4200w from Fry's for $897. I suggest joining their online newsletter for deals.

I would suggest SVS, HSU, PSA, or Rythmic subs. You can get some amazing subs right around 800-900$. That will leave you with almost $2500 for speakers (maxed budget).

That will get you set up with 5 B-Stock Sierra 1's all the way around and still leave you with $700 to play with. I own B-stock Sierra 2's and there is no sign of them being anything less than perfect. The left over funds you could upgrade all of your Sierra 1's to NRT tweeters.

SVS system you could get a prime system for $1500
http://www.svsound.com/products/prim...urround-system

ultra prime sysem would stretch your budget.
http://www.svsound.com/products/ultr...rround-package

however you could go with ultra fronts and prime rears and save some money. That would cost right at $2000 which still leaves you with $500 to play with.


You have a lot of options in front of you.

If you want to spend less on the speakers and go dual subs check out the Ascend CMT-340s they are a less costly option. Although most will say they are very good theater speakers.
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post #6 of 43 Old 07-05-2016, 10:57 AM
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These were originally $800/pair just like the nearly identical model that replaced them.

You could get 5 for around $1,000 brand new but if you prefer a horizontal center you could get 4 for around $800 and a horizontal center for about $300/

http://hifiheaven.net/shop/Martin-Lo...kshelf-Speaker

http://hifiheaven.net/shop/Products/...ame&order=DESC

They use the same tweeters found on their $3,000/pair towers.

I'd look at Rhythmik for a servo sub for less than $1,000 leaving you with a lot of money left over for an excellent AVR, (Denon or Marantz is what I'd look for thought there are many other excellent manufacturers).

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_642SR50...11.html?tp=179

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AVX2...0W.html?tp=179

For speaker stands Sanos has great quality and reasonable pricing.

You have a great budget.
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post #7 of 43 Old 07-05-2016, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sadllama View Post
Hi there!

I've decided to take the plunge and finally get a good home theater system. I've just ordered a LG E6 TV and the Samsung UHD player, but I can't have great video and poor sound! I know car audio fairly well, but I'm totally lost when it comes to home audio! Help me AVS! You're my only hope!

I'll be using the system almost exclusively for movies and TV, with the occasional (but rare) bit of music listening. The system will be going into my apartment living room, which is 15x14 and opens up into a roughly 8x14 kitchen.

I don't have much room on the front wall where the TV will be going as I have large DVD cabinets on either side of the TV stand, so I'm hoping for a solution which isn't terribly wide for front speakers

My budget is around $4k max for speakers+sub+receiver, though if I can get great sound lower than that I'm happy with that too. If I need to spend more..let me know and I can think about it.

I really appreciate your help!


How many speakers are you planning?
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post #8 of 43 Old 07-05-2016, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
How many speakers are you planning?
I'm thinking of doing 5.1. I don't have room behind me for speakers, but in the past I've enjoyed having some rear fill for movies (though funnily enough in the car audio world I am vehemently against most rear-fill most of the time).

Thanks for all of the advice so far everyone btw! I'm looking at all of your links and it seems like you are providing great options!
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post #9 of 43 Old 07-05-2016, 07:10 PM
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I think if you want the best advice you will post a photo of the front of your room where the equipment and Front Speakers will be.

I would suggest a Bookshelf/Sub system. No need for floorstanding in a modest room.

SVS has two bookshelf system, one with very small Satellite speakers -

http://www.svsound.com/products/prime-satellite-5-1

And another with slightly larger bookshelf speakers in the Front -

http://www.svsound.com/products/prim...urround-system

And the more expensive SVS ULTRA -

http://www.svsound.com/products/ultr...rround-package

Note you will need an extra $500 for a Sub.

SVS also has TOWER Packages, though in a tight space the ULTRA are probably not the best choice because of the side-firing drivers -

http://www.svsound.com/products/prim...urround-system

http://www.svsound.com/products/ultr...rround-package


The options are very tiny Satellite speakers which you will have no trouble placing -

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_700PCIN...00.html?tp=184

Having a Subwoofer makes for great movies, but as far as annoying your neighbors, deep bass is what is going to penetrate the most. So, rather than a Thunder Sub, you could go with some modest Floorstanding and No Sub, bearing in mind, that you can always add a Sub later.

For an apartment I would suggest some btower with 2x5" bass drivers. Examples would be the Dali Zensor 5 and the Monitor Audio Bronze 5 -

http://www.soundstagedirect.com/dali...speakers.shtml

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...variation=EWAL

If you want more bass than that, then something with 2x6.5" bass drivers, like the Wharfedale, Monitor Audio, Bowers-Wilkins and a few more.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MRBS6

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/bowers-w...&skuId=4828009

Now, and this is important, I'm not necessarily recommending these speakers, as they are well below your budget, more I'm illustrating the STYLES of speaker you can consider. Pick a style and we will have no problem raising it up to meet your stated budget.

While it is great to have a Sub, in an apartment, perhaps that is not a good idea. Remember it is powerful low bass that is going to penetrate the wall of your space and bleed over into your neighbors space. Normally you would absolutely want a Subwoofer, but are these normal circumstances? Only you can answer that question. But starting with no Sub is certainly an option. However, if you make that choice, then you probably want bigger Front Speakers to make up for the bass missing from not having a Sub.

More in keeping with your price, consider the Bowers-Wilkins CM series. CM5 in Front, CM Center, and CM1 in the Rear. Sub of your choice. B&W Subs tend to be expensive, I think most would recommend something from SVS or HSU.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/bowers-w...&skuId=8441132

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/bowers-w...&skuId=8441169

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/bowers-w...&skuId=8434389

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/bowers-w...&skuId=8441072

In AV Receivers, though there are many to choose from, Marantz and Denon seem to top the list. Simply pick a current model that fits your budget. Both with good power and high feature sets. I would like to be over $1000 on an AV Receiver. Something like this -

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AVX4...nd.html?tp=179

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_642SR60...10.html?tp=179

Though this would also be considered a good AVR ($800 Discount) -

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_642SR70...08.html?tp=179

The Bowers-Wilkins CM8 2x5" floorstanding is going to be a bit lean on bass, but is certainly a consideration -

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/bowers-w...&skuId=8441105

Getting Substantially expensive, but the CM9 with 2x6.5" is a very nice speaker -

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/bowers-w...&skuId=8441105

You could look at similar speakers in the Martin Logan Motion Series -

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpa...=960&keys=keys

http://www.audioadvisor.com/ssearch....n+Logan+Motion

I heard the Martin Logan Motion 40 and was very impressed, and this was after hearing the B&W CM series.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/martinlo...&skuId=5922256

Though being size obsessed as I am, the Martin Logan Motion 60XT appeal to me most -

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/martinlo...&skuId=8341019

You could also look at the Monitor Audio Silver Series -

http://www.audioadvisor.com/ssearch....r+Audio+SIlver

The first step is to determine what you can fit into your available space. Once we narrow that down, we can focus on speakers that fit your budget.

Just a few thoughts.

Just to give you a rough idea, with a $4000 budget, I would guess between $2500 for speaker and $1500 for the amp to roughly $3000 for speakers and $1000 for the Amp. That should lend some perspective.

At this point, you need to pick a path that you think will best suit your circumstance and needs -

Small Satellite 5.1 system?

Bookshelf Satellite 5.1 system?

Bookshelf 5.1 system?

Floorstanding 5.0 system?

Floorstaing 5.1 system?

Depending on how much room you have, a Bookshelf 5.1 best serves the needs of most people most of the time. Still, it is your choice.

Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by bluewizard; 07-05-2016 at 07:14 PM.
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post #10 of 43 Old 07-05-2016, 07:16 PM
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Oh and check out Blue Jean Cables for your cable needs. Great stuff.
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post #11 of 43 Old 07-05-2016, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
As others have stated, SVS and Ascend are great companies to start with. They offer 30+ days for trial.

I was in your exact position not too long ago myself. You can get one hell of a system for 4K. Accessories for less has some great refurbished receivers for great prices. I got my Denon x4200w from Fry's for $897. I suggest joining their online newsletter for deals.

I would suggest SVS, HSU, PSA, or Rythmic subs. You can get some amazing subs right around 800-900$. That will leave you with almost $2500 for speakers (maxed budget).

That will get you set up with 5 B-Stock Sierra 1's all the way around and still leave you with $700 to play with. I own B-stock Sierra 2's and there is no sign of them being anything less than perfect. The left over funds you could upgrade all of your Sierra 1's to NRT tweeters.

SVS system you could get a prime system for $1500
http://www.svsound.com/products/prim...urround-system

ultra prime sysem would stretch your budget.
http://www.svsound.com/products/ultr...rround-package

however you could go with ultra fronts and prime rears and save some money. That would cost right at $2000 which still leaves you with $500 to play with.


You have a lot of options in front of you.

If you want to spend less on the speakers and go dual subs check out the Ascend CMT-340s they are a less costly option. Although most will say they are very good theater speakers.
+1

I have Sierra 1 speakers. Excellent sound for the money. Can't go wrong with Ascends or the other suggestions Theriddler made.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
Living room HT: Energy RC-50, Ascend Sierra Horizon w/RAAL, Ascend Sierra 1, PSB Imagine XA | PSA V1500 and CHT SS 18.1 | Denon X4200W | modified Dayton SA1000
Other rooms: CBM-170 SE | SVS SB-1000 | Audio-GD NFB-11 | Parasound Zamp | JBL LSR305
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post #12 of 43 Old 07-05-2016, 10:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, thanks for the incredible list BlueWizard (and thanks to all of the others who have contributed as well). Theriddler07sms, agreed! I've been a fan of Blue Jean cables ever since the incident where Monster tried to patent troll them. I deal with patent trolls a lot in my career and so anyone who fights the good fight against them gets my business.

Now..as requested...pictures! Please ignore that the room needs some tidying up. Also, the new TV hasn't arrived yet. That comes Friday.

Thanks again for all your help!
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post #13 of 43 Old 07-05-2016, 10:34 PM
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Nice space!

An area rug would help quite a bit in that room since you have so many reflective surfaces. If you have a wife or a girlfriend let them pick it out. Helps them to be a part of the process

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
Living room HT: Energy RC-50, Ascend Sierra Horizon w/RAAL, Ascend Sierra 1, PSB Imagine XA | PSA V1500 and CHT SS 18.1 | Denon X4200W | modified Dayton SA1000
Other rooms: CBM-170 SE | SVS SB-1000 | Audio-GD NFB-11 | Parasound Zamp | JBL LSR305
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post #14 of 43 Old 07-05-2016, 11:33 PM
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I'm with @cel4145 on this a rug will do wonders. And some fancy decorative wall acoustic materials haha. The Patent troll they wrote up was a pretty good read.

Couple other things I noticed was you still have an xbox 360. Ill let this slide for now, that needs an upgrade haha. Secondly, I would steer away from tower speakers for the front. pull those cabinets out a bit and just set the speakers on top of those. They will not be the "perfect" height since the tweeter isnt at ear level but it beats putting them on stands in front of the cabinets and having to move them.....unless you can move the cabinets somehwere else.

Plenty of options for you in your budget. Do not jump right into speakers until you do your research. You will find everyone has their own opinions. I have ascend but have only ever had ascend. I am sort of biased in that regard. I have emailed Dave (owner of ascend) almost daily about the other speakers I will be ordering soon and the rythmic subs. Great customer service. I have also emailed SVS and got very quick and friendly replies from their sales team.

In the end, take your time and youll be happy with your selection. check out the sticky's about people who are willing to audition their speakers in your state. I dont know where you are from but you might have someone close to you that you can just hang out with one day and enjoy some quality listening time.
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post #15 of 43 Old 07-06-2016, 12:22 PM
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Within certain reasonable bounds, those Media Cabinets are screwing you up. Though I guess, while less than ideal, they could be used for Bookshelf Speaker Stand. However, if you do that, you want the speakers forward right to the front edge of the cabinet.

Agree, the room is far too reflective. A large throw rug on the floor would do wonders, and while I would be inclined to recommend some acoustic treatment, you could consider something like a tapestry on the wall above the Sofa. Also Curtains on the Side Windows would help.

There are several places on the Internet that sell Art Tapestries. These don't have to be stodgy old artworks, you can find more contemporary designs.

http://www.wayfair.com/Tapestries-C2...d=kwd-23457371

https://www.society6.com/tapestries?...FQ6oaQodfp0LtA

https://www.google.com/search?q=tape...HcXBAmsQsAQIXg

Just a suggestion.

Steve/bluewizard
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post #16 of 43 Old 07-06-2016, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, there is so much awesome advice here.

Let me try to address some of the things in some kind of order. It sounds like there's consensus that I need an area rug. I tried so hard to avoid that because I really like the color of the wood flooring, but I am getting the impression it'll make a pretty big difference. Also, it'll make the GF happy. :-p When I first moved in she suggested the place would look better with an area rug. Looks like she gets her way. I may or may not tell her my change of heart has anything to do with acoustics.

The Xbox 360 is old, but at this point it's just there for HBO Now and to let me play old Mass Effect games. The moment HBO Now comes to the PS4 or the phone app becomes not awful I think I may just get rid of the 360. All my gaming is on the PS4 now.

The media cabinets are definitely screwing me a bit, and in some ways have over a number of years in different places. On one hand I'd love to get rid of them, but on the other hand over the years I've collected a pretty substantial collection of movies I love and even if most of them are available digitally now (and in better quality) there's something about having the disc... argh. Dilemma! I was thinking for now of using them as my bookshelf speaker stand.

Thanks for the links to the wall tapestries! Some of these are pretty cool! I'll take a look and see what I can find.

I'm in the Atlanta area, so it sounds like the next steps for me are:

1. Make a list of speakers I'm interested in based on the suggestions in this thread.

2. See if anyone near me has the speakers available to demo.

3. Tell the GF about how I've come to see her point on the area rug.

4. Pick speakers.

5. Make a list of the features I need in a receiver and pick one.

6. Consider adding a wall tapestry.

Does that sound about right? What else am I missing? Thank you all for your help so far. This forum is so awesome it blows my mind!
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post #17 of 43 Old 07-06-2016, 11:30 PM
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I think you are right on track. Once you take the time and do your research we can help more.

Make a list of up to 5 speakers/sub/receiver and bring that lost down to 2 and list it here. We can than further help you. But from that point everything will fall on your final decision. We can only give you our own opinions.

Start with the rug, hang some window coverings. Than you will be set to audition some speakers.
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post #18 of 43 Old 07-07-2016, 09:31 PM
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RE: Those Media Cabinets on each side of the TV. They can be used for Speaker stands, but again, the speakers need to be forward right to the front edge of the cabinet., so you don't get surface reflections off the cabinets themselves.

The alternative, though it is hard to tell, would be to place one media cabinet on top of the cabinet next to the bookshelf. The other media cabinet could be placed near the behind the window next to the Sofa. There appears to be a MAC computer on the floor in the spot I'm talking about.

On this last aspect, I can't really see well enough to determine if there is actually enough room to place the cabinet.

Those are certainly possible, though how well it will work in reality, I can't say. That would open up the front for Bookshelf on Stand or Smaller Floorstanding speakers, and might leave room for a Subwoofer as well.

Every system compromise something in favor of something else. If it is simply not possible to place those two Media Cabinets anyplace else, then certainly you can use them as stands for Bookshelf speakers.

Given the placement, I don't see it as a big chore to wire the Rear speakers, just run the wires along the wall under the windows.

You will probably have to raise the TV up with some type of Shelf to make room to place the Center under the TV. It is a relatively simply shelf and making or having one made should be easy enough.

With a $4k budget, you should do very well, and bookshelf speakers will bring the cost down.

Just one of many possibilities would be the Monitor Audio Silver -

Start with the Silver 1 6" bookshelf speaker - $875/pr -

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MRSS1

Monitor Audio Silver Center - $725 each -


http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MRSSC

Here is the most interesting speaker, the Monitor Audio Silver FX Surrounds - $875/pr -

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MRSSFX

Let's see how badly I've damaged your budget -

$875/pr = Monitor Audio Silver 1 bookshelf
$725/ea = Monitor Audio Silver Center
$875/pr = Monitor Audio Silver FX Surrounds
-------------------------------
$2475 = Total

Add $500 for a Subwooofer (SVS SB-1000 = $499) and we have a new total -

$2475/set = 5.0 speakers
$_500/sub = SVS SB-1000 Sub
------------------------------
$2975 = Total

That leaves you $1025 for a AV Receiver. If you can find a couple hundred more, you can get a very good high quality up-to-date AVR -

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AVX2...0W.html?tp=179

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_642SR70...08.html?tp=179

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_642SR50...11.html?tp=179

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AVX4...nd.html?tp=179

Best value is the Marantz SR7008, not the latest model, but a $1600 amp for a modest $800.

If you can stretch to the Denon AV-X4200 so much the better.

If you want speakers that are a bit mellower than the Monitor Audio Silver, then consider the Bowers-Wilkins 600 series (B&W 685 bookshelf, $699/pr) or the Martin Logan Motion series (Motion 15, $405 each)-

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/bowers-w...&skuId=4827037

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/martinlo...&skuId=6226238


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post #19 of 43 Old 07-08-2016, 12:59 AM
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You have already received a lot of good advice on this thread!

Here is some more!

No matter WHAT you buy, you will probably experience some sort of "buyer's remorse" at some point in the future. Did I spend too much? Did I spend too little? Should I have purchased speakers from a "Internet Direct" company? Should I buy from Best Buy or Fry's or other "Brick and Mortar" (B&M) Store.

Go to Best Buy or Fry's (heck both!) and talk to the sales people. Some are idiots, some will give you great advice. Spend time just wondering around. In some Best Buy's, there is a Magnolia "high end" HT store, go talk to those guys, they are usually pretty knowledgeable, and can make good recommendations, and sometimes you can find great deals on higher end items.

Spend a LOT of time here! Read about Receivers, and Speakers on the forums.

There are "fan boys" for every type of speaker out there, and there are "haters" for those same speakers!

A large portion of the time, Speakers will not sound their best in the stores, for several reasons:
- Ambient sound
- Hooked up wrong
- Bad listening conditions
- abused speakers
- wrong settings on the reciver
- Sometimes "less expensive" speakers or "lower profit" speakers are purposely made to sound bad, so that you will "wisely" choose to purchase the more expensive speakers.

If you are daring, go to a "B&M" store, and buy a receiver and speakers, on your Credit Card, and SAVE THE RECEIPT!. (First check to see what the return policy is at the store). Set it up in your home, and evaluate it, staying within the "return time window". Of course, open each item VERY CAREFULLY, and SAVE ALL PACKAGING. Take everything back (in mint condition) after your 1 month evaluation, and now you have a little experience as to what you want in a HT system.

See what you like, and do not like. Maybe you hit the motherload with your first purchase, and never buy any HT equipment again! (Then again, maybe it becomes a life long obsession!)

Get your GF's approval prior to purchasing. You can get speakers where the cabinet's themselves are works of art. This might be a little out of your price range, (but not much at 4K total), but look at the beauty of these speakers:
http://www.salksound.com/

Check Fry's and BB and NewEgg and amazon for sales on receivers and speakers.

http://www.accessories4less.com/ and http://avscience.com/ are two great places to look for receivers and speakers. JD at AVScience is an awesome resource to talk to! (call him for best prices)

Monoprice and amazon are great places to buy cables and accessories at good prices.

Look at the first 5-10 pages of Speaker threads on this forum. There is your list of the "hot" speaker companies! I would spend a couple of weeks just reading.

Talk to Dennis Murphy at http://www.philharmonicaudio.com/. Dennis is a "semi" retired professional classical musician, and he has a "hobby/business" of making "state of the art" speakers, while offering incredible value for what you are getting. Dennis has a sterling reputation on the various audio forums.

Go for quality over quantity. Left, Center and Right Channel speakers are more important the surrounds.

Other good speaker companies:
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/
https://www.chanemusiccinema.com/chane-loudspeakers
http://www.axiomaudio.com/ (lots of finish choices)
http://emptek.com/
http://wharfedaleusa.com/
http://wharfedale.co.uk/
http://www.htd.com/
Of course the "big guns" are
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/
http://us.kef.com/
http://www.jbl.com/loudspeakers/

And I have probably missed one or two (thousand!) other companies.

Have fun. I have a feeling that your GF will play a part in your speaker selection, as they will be part of the room. You can turn a "negative" into a "positive" by getting beautiful looking speaker cabinets, that also offer outstanding sound.
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post #20 of 43 Old 07-08-2016, 01:18 AM
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OH, one more thing, the "Pièce de résistance" in a home theater is a Logitech Harmony (or similar) universal remote!

I built a HT for my Dad in 2003 or so. I pieced it all together over a year, and assembled it myself. Almost as an afterthought, I bought him a Logitech Harmony, and it "made" the system!

What I mean, is that, with the press of one button, ALL the equipment is turned on, in the correct order, and all the settings are correct, so sound and TV and DVD/Blu-ray - game consoles etc, are all working with the correct configuration.

I cannot tell you how many times I have been to someone else's house, and they have a HT system, but are watching TV with the TV speakers. When I ask them why, they say that it is "too much hassle" to turn on everything and make sure it is all configured correctly every time someone turns on the system.

AND, you set it up via a "wizard" on your computer! No arcane "keyboard twister" coding to get the remote to work correctly!
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Fry's has great deals on the denon x4200w. $1500 receiver on sale for $897. Get on their mailing list and wait for the sale. Can't beat that price. Than you have 2500 for speakers and 1100 for subs :-)
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post #22 of 43 Old 07-11-2016, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sadllama View Post
.
I'll be using the system almost exclusively for movies and TV, with the occasional (but rare) bit of music listening. The system will be going into my apartment living room, which is 15x14 and opens up into a roughly 8x14 kitchen.
.
My budget is around $4k max for speakers+sub+receiver, though if I can get great sound lower than that I'm happy with that too. If I need to spend more..let me know and I can think about it.
Hi Sadllama. Your $4000 max is a nice generous budget which should set you well on the way to a high performing HT audio system for your space. But... (and I feel a bit like a voice in the wilderness here) you will not achieve anywhere close to full performance potential if you blow $1000 - $1500 on a (current) AVR and go skinflint with a small $500 sub, as has been suggested. These budget allocations should be reversed... at least.

Let's start with what I see as the priority components and see if we can wrap up with a few suggestions...

Sub: Based on your ceilings being about 9ft high and including a guestimate for the hallway opposite the kitchen, the total enclosed volume of your space is approaching 3000ft^3. This volume is the lower bound of what Audioholics categorise as a "Large Room". As you may know from car audio, the sub(s) interact with (or "see") the total enclosed volume when attempting to fill it with low bass.

This volume, along with your almost exclusive movie and TV use, means that the sub should be a priority if you want to achieve an optimum level of HT audio performance for your budget. I'd recommend allocating around 1/3rd of your total budget to a well engineered sub. This will get you a high performing ported 15" sub or sealed 18" sub. You may slightly favour a sealed 18" sub for reduced bulk and subsequent placement flexibility.

I wouldn't consider the idea of not running a sub for a second. Contemporary AVR's are designed (and movie soundtracks created) around the assumption that a sub will be part of a multi-channel audio system. You don't want the hassles this fella had figuring out the best way to not run a sub: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...subwoofer.html. Long wavelength, low bass does penetrate more readily through structures, but the best ameliorative action is turning the sub trim or LFE channel level down &/or engaging one a number of dynamic range limiting options on the AVR, if and when an issue eventuates.

Speakers: Some background first. Speaker design is governed by Hoffman's Iron Law, which dictates that with speakers you may have three attributes: digs deep, plays loud, is compact... PICK TWO! To achieve a relatively compact speaker for home use, a speaker designer must make a call on where to strike a balance between sensitivity (how loud) and low frequency extension (how deep). The majority of mainstream speaker designers pick the middle ground to produce a more marketable "jack of all trades" type speaker. (Consumers also find it the idea of a deeper frequency response easier to digest than the implications of lower sensitivity.) For example, a 6.5" 2-way speaker like the highly regarded SVS Ultra Bookshelf has a claimed extension of 45Hz (-3dB) and sensitivity of 87dB/2.83V/1m.

But, given you'll be running a sub 100% of the time and it's crossed over at a typical 80Hz or higher, why would you want the type of speaker that's traded off sensitivity for LF capability you won't utilise? It just doesn't make sense.

The type of speaker you do want is one that's specifically designed for use with a sub and hasn't sacrificed high sensitivity for (unused) low end capability. A combination of high sensitivity and benign impedance (8Ω nom. ideally) allows this type of speaker to be driven cleanly to very loud levels (if required) with "budget AVR power". This in turn frees up funds for a better calibre of speakers and sub. (See comments on the AVR below.) In addition, when higher sensitivity is also combined with good power handling, distortion and power compression is minimised because the speaker is operating well with it's design limits, and you have the ingredients for a speaker capable of more faithfully reproducing the dynamic peaks of a movie soundtrack.

Off the top of my head, there are at least three outfits producing a speaker that meet the above criteria and are manageable with your budget.

All three speakers are 8Ω nom. impedance and rated 94 - 95dB/1W/1m sensitivity by virtue of their pro-derived drivers. The JTR and RA use coaxial compression drivers and are simply placed on their sides for centre channel use. The JTR is the premium speaker of the bunch and uses a custom high-grade Neodymium magnet coaxial driver (that alone sells for more than the cost of the PSA or RA speakers) and has very high power handling. All three are internet direct makes and offer a 30 day trial period. (You pay return shipping with the JTR's though.)

AVR: Please do not overspend! Notions of an AVR consuming up to $1500 of a $4000 max budget is just crazy stuff (IMO) and a recipe for compromised audio performance. The actual contribution of solid state electronics to the final sound we hear is often greatly over-emphasised, leading to "deluxe" spending. With the possible exception of the AVR's auto-EQ/room correction routine, their actual contribution is positively tiny. The budget allocation should reflect this and be heavily skewed towards the speakers. In addition, if you select the right type of speaker for the job, a powerful AVR is not warranted at typical domestic listening distances.

Getting sucked in by the tractor beam (I got your Star Wars reference!) of fancy electronics - often rationalised as "future proofing" - when you're running a firm budget can have only one result: squeezing the budget allocation for speakers/subs, leading to long-term sub-optimal performance for the audio dollar.

If you simply must have the latest/greatest in AVR wiz-bangery, at least wait until all speaker and sub purchases are done 'n' dusted and the credit card is paid off.

System examples:

** Although the Reaction Audio system would appear to offer a high level of performance, I'm very reluctant to recommend them at present, given the company's apparent tribulations at the moment. (See: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...d-5-years.html) Also, I believe the new AXIS series of speakers are not shipping yet.

The AVR's above are indicative of what's required and are interchangeable between systems. Their output is all that's required for very loud listening levels. To illustrate, when dissipating 75W (19dBW) of power a 95dB/1W/1m sensitivity speaker like those listed above, theoretically generates 114dBSPL @ 1m. Now, for a typical 87dB/1W/1m sensitivity speaker to generate 114dBSP @ 1m, it theoretically needs to dissipate over 500W (27dBW) of power! (dB Power Ratio calculator) Not only is this well beyond the output capability of any current AVR, but it's also beyond the power handling capabilities of most speakers in your price range.

Of course, all of the above is based on objective criterion. You should still satisfy yourself that you like how a speaker sounds (subjective) before making a final decision. I encourage you to demo all speakers on your shortlist if possible; either in your own room (preferred) or at a fellow member’s place.

Wow! Long post and lots to absorb, so I'll leave it at that for now.

Good luck and have fun!
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post #23 of 43 Old 07-11-2016, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sadllama View Post
I've decided to take the plunge and finally get a good home theater system. I've just ordered a LG E6 TV and the Samsung UHD player, but I can't have great video and poor sound! I know car audio fairly well, but I'm totally lost when it comes to home audio! Help me AVS! You're my only hope!
Also wanted to point out the relevance of your new Samsung UBD-K8500 UltraHD Blu-ray media player's dual HDMI 2.0a ports.

Quote:
Aside from this, there are dual HDMI 2.0a outputs. The main HDMI port is for 4K-compatible devices like your TV and comes with HDCP 2.2 integration. This can be connected to your 4K TV directly or to an AV Receiver or other display device. The K8500’s other HDMI port is designed to handle audio and is aimed at transmitting uncompressed audio codecs to older audio devices.
[Source: http://4k.com/devices/samsung-ubd-k8...w-ubd-k8500za/]
This means that you can economise by getting an older non HDMI 2.0a/HDCP 2.2 compliant AVR and still enjoy 4K/UltraHD/HDR content delivered via the Samsung player. A wise choice!
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post #24 of 43 Old 07-11-2016, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post
Hi Sadllama. Your $4000 max is a nice generous budget which should set you well on the way to a high performing HT audio system for your space. But... (and I feel a bit like a voice in the wilderness here) you will not achieve anywhere close to full performance potential if you blow $1000 - $1500 on a (current) AVR and go skinflint with a small $500 sub, as has been suggested. These budget allocations should be reversed... at least.
Well, except that note it was suggested that he get not just any receiver, but the X4200W for $900. The advantage to it is the Audyssey XT32 with SubHT. As people have suggested on the forum for years, XT32 can EQ the sub as well MultEQ or regular XT + an Antimode. And then SubHT can EQ dual subs separately should he ever want to upgrade to another sub. So figure it's providing a few hundred dollars of EQ capability that one would have to buy separately. I think there are a lot of people that might say that's useful to have for the money. At least, I know plenty of people have ended up buying an Antimode later.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
Living room HT: Energy RC-50, Ascend Sierra Horizon w/RAAL, Ascend Sierra 1, PSB Imagine XA | PSA V1500 and CHT SS 18.1 | Denon X4200W | modified Dayton SA1000
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post #25 of 43 Old 07-13-2016, 12:47 AM
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Well, except that note it was suggested that he get not just any receiver, but the X4200W for $900. The advantage to it is the Audyssey XT32 with SubHT. As people have suggested on the forum for years, XT32 can EQ the sub as well MultEQ or regular XT + an Antimode. And then SubHT can EQ dual subs separately should he ever want to upgrade to another sub. So figure it's providing a few hundred dollars of EQ capability that one would have to buy separately. I think there are a lot of people that might say that's useful to have for the money. At least, I know plenty of people have ended up buying an Antimode later.
I'm well aware of the various Audyssey levels and their capabilities, which is why I suggested three AVR's with at least MultEQ. I know that plenty here agree XT32 (SubEQ HT inferred) is the duck's nuts and have often recommended AVR's with it. It undoubtedly has it's technical advantages.

However... the OP is building a system "from scratch" on a firm budget, so trade-offs need to be made. I chose the trade-off of economising with "good enough" MultEQ AVR's (plus more affordable surrounds), because the OP's budget is right on the cusp of some high performing, good value HT orientated LCR speakers and subs, which would've been out of reach if XT32 enabled AVR's (even on sale) where included in the system now.

I maintain that the OP (with his almost 100% movie/TV use) will realise a higher level of overall performance with a combination of MultEQ and the calibre/type of speakers I suggested than he would with a combination of XT32 and general purpose type of speakers suggested prior.

In ~2 years even the new Denon AVR-X3300W (XT32 enabled) will be passé and that's a smarter timeframe for chasing XT32 capability; when units are at run-out prices, when dual subs may be imminent (so the advantage of SubEQ HT will accrue) and finally, it's purchase isn't competing with the speakers.

What are your alternative $4K max. system suggestions (with the X4200W in the mix)? I'd be interested to know.

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if you can achieve the Frequency response desired with any of the current tech, why would you need anything newer? I actually love the sound direct(no eq) lately on some musical recordings...is some newer tech on the horizon that makes stuff sound better than what it is now?

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
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Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
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@GIEGAR I did mention HSU, PSA, and Rythmik subs can be had for around $800-900. A single ported sub from either of these companies will be easily enough for a "starter" system. With a $800 sub and a $900 x4200w, that leaves $2400 for speakers. Thats B-stock Sierra 2's in the L/C/R with CMT 200 rears. That would be a killer HT system.

the receiver would still be good enough if the OP wanted to go dual sub down the road or add two more speakers for a 7.2 system.

I have nothing against your recommendations as I have never heard them before. I currently have Sierra 2's in the L/R and have another Sierra 2 for center along with a Rythmik on the way. My system in just the 2.1 I had it has already wowed me beyond my expectations.

The OP has a ton of options with a $4K budget but, going $400 for AVR instead of $900 and putting that extra $500 into a sub is it worth it? Especially for possible future upgrades? (we all know we never plan on upgrading but it always happens haha)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
@GIEGAR I did mention HSU, PSA, and Rythmik subs can be had for around $800-900. A single ported sub from either of these companies will be easily enough for a "starter" system. With a $800 sub and a $900 x4200w, that leaves $2400 for speakers. Thats B-stock Sierra 2's in the L/C/R with CMT 200 rears. That would be a killer HT system.

the receiver would still be good enough if the OP wanted to go dual sub down the road or add two more speakers for a 7.2 system.

I have nothing against your recommendations as I have never heard them before. I currently have Sierra 2's in the L/R and have another Sierra 2 for center along with a Rythmik on the way. My system in just the 2.1 I had it has already wowed me beyond my expectations.

The OP has a ton of options with a $4K budget but, going $400 for AVR instead of $900 and putting that extra $500 into a sub is it worth it? Especially for possible future upgrades? (we all know we never plan on upgrading but it always happens haha)
I agree with you. GIEGAR pointed out that the OP's room is on the edge of the Audioholics Large recommendation, and you have suggested subs that no doubt fit that recommendation, are suitable for the OPs space, and cost considerably less than the ones he recommended. Plus, he's in an "apartment living room." I don't think going for bass monster setup will help keep his lease. (lol)

Yep. And you are right to laugh about "possible future upgrades." As GIEGAR pointed out, the OP is building from scratch. So many of us end up upgrading and tweaking our systems from there. OP has been into car audio. Says "he knows it very well." Definitely sound like someone getting into the hobby, not buying a system and calling it quits after that.

With this in mind, and after experimenting with Dolby Atmos and DTS:X and Neutral: X for the last week myself, I think it's worth while getting a receiver that supports this in case the OP wants to experiment with Dolby Atmos enabled modules in the near future. It really is a nice option for expanding the height of the soundstage without having to mount speakers on the walls. I also think in a $4000 setup, very good subwoofer EQ is worth considering. With the X4200W you recommended, not only will it work much better with a single sub because of XT32, but should the OP want to add another sub, it will EQ that sub separately.

Meanwhile, I don't agree that something like the X4200W will become "passe" within the next two years, as GIEGAR suggests. The new technology on the horizon is incorporated into that model. Seems likely it will serve the OP a good bit longer. I just upgraded my AVR-888 after owning for 8 years. Definitely got my money's worth out of it.

The OP also seems concerned about aesthetics (note his comment above about how he likes his floor). The Sierras and some of the other speakers mentioned in this thread are much, much nicer looking than the JTR or PSA options, which are at the bottom of the list in terms of aesthetics.

Finally, contrary to what GIEGAR just said

Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post
However... the OP is building a system "from scratch" on a firm budget, so trade-offs need to be made.
The OP said in his first post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sadllama View Post
If I need to spend more..let me know and I can think about it.
Doesn't hurt to discuss the options and let him decide if he wants to spend a little more or a little less.

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Living room HT: Energy RC-50, Ascend Sierra Horizon w/RAAL, Ascend Sierra 1, PSB Imagine XA | PSA V1500 and CHT SS 18.1 | Denon X4200W | modified Dayton SA1000
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post #29 of 43 Old 08-04-2016, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
@GIEGAR I did mention HSU, PSA, and Rythmik subs can be had for around $800-900. A single ported sub from either of these companies will be easily enough for a "starter" system. With a $800 sub and a $900 x4200w, that leaves $2400 for speakers. Thats B-stock Sierra 2's in the L/C/R with CMT 200 rears. That would be a killer HT system.
Yes, you did mention them. In addition, without mentioning other brands or lesser price ranges, you also suggested dual subs in conjunction with less expensive speakers, so you didn't have a problem with the principle of spending up to twice the amount on subs for this space.

For comparison, all sub prices I quoted are shipped. The only ported sub from those companies that ships for $800 - $900 is the Hsu VTF-3 MK5 HP ($880). A single one of those would probably do the trick, but with the OP's room size and dominant use I wouldn't contemplate economising on the sub to accommodate a more expensive AVR. For example, I would instead get either the matching surrounds (PSA) or the centre channel speaker (JTR).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
the receiver would still be good enough if the OP wanted to go dual sub down the road or add two more speakers for a 7.2 system.
This is what I was banging on about above regarding "future proofing". Spending more now for an AVR justified by future "ifs", at the expense of speakers/subs that make a tangible difference now (as well as setting a better course for the future) doesn't make any sense to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
I have nothing against your recommendations as I have never heard them before. I currently have Sierra 2's in the L/R and have another Sierra 2 for center along with a Rythmik on the way. My system in just the 2.1 I had it has already wowed me beyond my expectations.
Your Ascend/Rythmik system sounds like it's coming together nicely and it no doubt reflects your personal choices and priorities. Is your use "almost exclusively... movies and TV, with the occasional (but rare) bit of music listening" like the OP? I outlined the type of system I believe will offer the OP a superior level of objective performance for his particular situation, listening preferences and stated budget. The background/reasons are explained as best I could above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
The OP has a ton of options with a $4K budget but, going $400 for AVR instead of $900 and putting that extra $500 into a sub is it worth it?
Yes definitely! An extra $500 spent on a more capable sub will almost certainly make a far greater contribution to overall audio quality than an extra $500 spent on an AVR. This is particularly the case with the US's competitive, value orientated ID sub market and when the 1 - 2dBW of additional AVR amp output isn't required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
Especially for possible future upgrades? (we all know we never plan on upgrading but it always happens haha)
Right. So why is it difficult to accept that an XT32 enabled AVR can't be a possible future upgrade, after the OP has been able to set a course with the type and calibre of speakers best suited to his dominant use and/or at a time when the full value of XT32/SubEQ HT will be accrued with a second sub?
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post #30 of 43 Old 08-04-2016, 02:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post
I agree with you.
That's no surprise. It helps validate your own purchasing decision and provides you with an excuse to interject in a post that wasn't directed to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post
GIEGAR pointed out that the OP's room is on the edge of the Audioholics Large recommendation, and you have suggested subs that no doubt fit that recommendation, are suitable for the OPs space, and cost considerably less than the ones he recommended.
Yet earlier when TheRiddler said this (my bold):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theriddler07sms View Post
...
I would suggest SVS, HSU, PSA, or Rythmic subs. You can get some amazing subs right around 800-900$. That will leave you with almost $2500 for speakers (maxed budget).
...
You have a lot of options in front of you.

If you want to spend less on the speakers and go dual subs check out the Ascend CMT-340s they are a less costly option. Although most will say they are very good theater speakers.
... you quoted him and stated:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post
+1

I have Sierra 1 speakers. Excellent sound for the money. Can't go wrong with Ascends or the other suggestions Theriddler made.
Therefore you were perfectly fine with the idea of spending up to $1800 on dual subs when TheRiddler suggested them. But now that you're pushing your favourite AVR, the emphasis promptly switches to: "cost(ing) considerably less than the ones he recommended." (Which by the way was $1100 to $1500 + shipping.) So you've changed your tune for the purpose of running the argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post
Plus, he's in an "apartment living room." I don't think going for bass monster setup will help keep his lease. (lol)
This is the sort of stuff that perpetuates subwoofer myths. Any correctly calibrated sub - including a "bass monster" - will be calibrated to play at the same level relative to the "satellite" speakers. It will not be overpowering or more prominent in the mix than a less capable sub if left as per calibration. The difference with a more capable sub is it will be operating further inside it's limits, more faithfully to the soundtrack and with less distortion at any given level. I also outlined a number of options for addressing any issues should they arise. In any event, you are assuming things not in evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post
Yep. And you are right to laugh about "possible future upgrades." As GIEGAR pointed out, the OP is building from scratch. So many of us end up upgrading and tweaking our systems from there. OP has been into car audio. Says "he knows it very well." Definitely sound like someone getting into the hobby, not buying a system and calling it quits after that.
Yet it's so hard to fathom that an XT32 enabled AVR can be a possible future upgrade, after the OP has been able to set himself up with the type and calibre of speakers best suited to his dominant use and/or at a time when the full value of XT32/SubEQ HT may be accrued with a second sub and when the price of XT32 enabled AVR's has most likely fallen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post
With this in mind, and after experimenting with Dolby Atmos and DTS:X and Neutral: X for the last week myself, I think it's worth while getting a receiver that supports this in case the OP wants to experiment with Dolby Atmos enabled modules in the near future. It really is a nice option for expanding the height of the soundstage without having to mount speakers on the walls. I also think in a $4000 setup, very good subwoofer EQ is worth considering. With the X4200W you recommended, not only will it work much better with a single sub because of XT32, but should the OP want to add another sub, it will EQ that sub separately.
Again more justification based on "future proofing". Spending more now for an AVR justified by possible future scenarios that the OP hasn't mentioned, at the expense of speakers/subs that will make a tangible difference now.
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post
Meanwhile, I don't agree that something like the X4200W will become "passe" within the next two years, as GIEGAR suggests. The new technology on the horizon is incorporated into that model. Seems likely it will serve the OP a good bit longer. I just upgraded my AVR-888 after owning for 8 years. Definitely got my money's worth out of it.
You're misrepresenting what I said. I wasn't talking about the longevity of service provided by AVR once you own it. The thrust of what I said was that XT32 capable AVR's will be more affordable in ~2 years when units (like the now new Denon AVR-X3300W) are at run-out prices and at a time when it's purchase isn't competing with the speakers. Follow JD's posts from post 22 onward here. Availability of a $30 phone app to replace the Audyssey Pro kit for upcoming 2016 D+M AVR's... what do think that'll do to the price of the current XT32 enabled AVR's?
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post
The OP also seems concerned about aesthetics (note his comment above about how he likes his floor). The Sierras and some of the other speakers mentioned in this thread are much, much nicer looking than the JTR or PSA options, which are at the bottom of the list in terms of aesthetics.
Aesthetics, really? This is just clutching at straws. The OP said nothing about speaker aesthetics and in fact the best indication he did give (since we're selectively citing comments) as to his preferences was that the Chane and KEF speakers appealed to him (post 3). These are two speakers that could be considered at opposite ends of the aesthetic spectrum, indicating if anything that speaker aesthetics are not an important consideration for the OP.
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post
Finally, contrary to what GIEGAR just said
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Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post
However... the OP is building a system "from scratch" on a firm budget, so trade-offs need to be made.
Nice selective quoting to remove context there. Isolating a sentence that was a precursor to this (bold added):
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post
However... the OP is building a system "from scratch" on a firm budget, so trade-offs need to be made. I chose the trade-off of economising with "good enough" MultEQ AVR's (plus more affordable surrounds), because the OP's budget is right on the cusp of some high performing, good value HT orientated LCR speakers and subs, which would've been out of reach if XT32 enabled AVR's (even on sale) where included in the system now.
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post
The OP said in his first post
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Originally Posted by sadllama View Post
If I need to spend more..let me know and I can think about it.
Selective quoting again. His primary point being (bold added):
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadllama View Post
My budget is around $4k max for speakers+sub+receiver, though if I can get great sound lower than that I'm happy with that too. If I need to spend more..let me know and I can think about it.
Please don't make out that discussing options is the motivation. It's fairly clear your primary motivation is validating your own purchasing decisions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post
Doesn't hurt to discuss the options and let him decide if he wants to spend a little more or a little less.
Which is exactly what I did at length, giving options ranging from $3700 to $4040 + $900 for an extra speaker. Up until that point, all the options the OP got was a parade of the usual general purpose, moderately sensitive speakers that did not recognise his almost exclusive movie/TV use along with suggestions of AVR's worth up to 35% of the total budget. Yet, because you are unable to reconcile my discussion/options with your own purchasing decisions, you felt the need to selectively quote and nitpick my post.

Still awaiting your alternative $4K max. system suggestions. It's pretty easy when you're just sniping from the sidelines.
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