Official JBL Synthesis / Pro / Revel Home Theater Thread - Page 112 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3331 of 4242 Old 03-15-2019, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
So many JBL threads, hard to tell where to post. Will be setting up LSR308P’s for L/R today, coming from HSU HB1 and HC1 center.

Posting here because haven’t decided what to do for center channel yet

LSR 308 horizontal? Not sure if I can accommodate the height, even on its side at 11”

So also saw the SAM3HA https://www.jblsynthesis.com/productdetail/sam3ha.html

The spin on it looks pretty good.

Studio 235C https://www.jbl.com/loudspeakers/STU...SAAEgLwGPD_BwE
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
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Hey bear123,

Kevin Voecks noticed my post and was kind enough to correct my statement regarding rear ports being close to a wall. I failed to take into account the use of subs and crossing over at 80Hz. Here's what he had to say:

"In fact, ports don’t need to be very far-away from a wall. Check out the minimal distance between the Salon2 port and the bottom plate, which was carefully engineered to avoid any compression. When a speaker is high-passed, the port becomes non-functional, so that is the case in the majority of surround system".

That gives you more options for your center channel choice. Sorry for my error!



Last edited by Rex Anderson; 03-15-2019 at 08:24 AM.
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post #3332 of 4242 Old 03-24-2019, 11:10 AM
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The new and improved target curve...

I remember earlier when Harman had a news item with the following:

New Room Correction Target Curves
Based on continuing research and blind listening tests, the JBL Synthesis SDP-75 now incorporates a new target curve that provides an improvement in performance--even over the highly-lauded ARCOS target. The sonic result is better subwoofer integration with the main speakers, much-deeper and tighter bass, and significantly smoother high frequencies.


Does anybody know more about this after some time have passed?

What baffles me is, that they say it is improved and sonically better than what they use in ARCOS/SDECs... But why not just change the target curve in ARCOS if the new one is so much better to allow this improvement to existing customers?

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post #3333 of 4242 Old 03-24-2019, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by JonasHansen View Post
The new and improved target curve...

I remember earlier when Harman had a news item with the following:

New Room Correction Target Curves
Based on continuing research and blind listening tests, the JBL Synthesis SDP-75 now incorporates a new target curve that provides an improvement in performance--even over the highly-lauded ARCOS target. The sonic result is better subwoofer integration with the main speakers, much-deeper and tighter bass, and significantly smoother high frequencies.


Does anybody know more about this after some time have passed?

What baffles me is, that they say it is improved and sonically better than what they use in ARCOS/SDECs... But why not just change the target curve in ARCOS if the new one is so much better to allow this improvement to existing customers?

I have requested info to get an answer for you.
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post #3334 of 4242 Old 03-25-2019, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
I have requested info to get an answer for you.
Thanks! Would be very interested in understanding how they changed it. Personally, I think the ARCOS target has too much bass in the room sizes I've listened to. With 1khz as a reference the bass boost is close to 8db-9db as far as I remember.

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post #3335 of 4242 Old 03-25-2019, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasHansen View Post
The new and improved target curve...

I remember earlier when Harman had a news item with the following:

New Room Correction Target Curves
Based on continuing research and blind listening tests, the JBL Synthesis SDP-75 now incorporates a new target curve that provides an improvement in performance--even over the highly-lauded ARCOS target. The sonic result is better subwoofer integration with the main speakers, much-deeper and tighter bass, and significantly smoother high frequencies.


Does anybody know more about this after some time have passed?

What baffles me is, that they say it is improved and sonically better than what they use in ARCOS/SDECs... But why not just change the target curve in ARCOS if the new one is so much better to allow this improvement to existing customers?
Agreed and thanks @Rex Anderson for looking into it. I would absolutely hope that an update would be made available for at the very least the arcos customers, and if we get really lucky, updates to the Lexicon target curves too!
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post #3336 of 4242 Old 03-27-2019, 10:46 AM
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SCL-3 and SCL-4

Does anyone know what the differences are between the SCL-3 and SCL-4, beyond the obvious? ISTM they are very, very similar in terms of performance, so I'm just curious what the use cases are that would drive a decision between the SCL-3 (with two smaller bass drivers) and the SCL-4 (with one larger bass driver).
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post #3337 of 4242 Old 03-27-2019, 11:31 AM
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Agreed and thanks @Rex Anderson for looking into it. I would absolutely hope that an update would be made available for at the very least the arcos customers, and if we get really lucky, updates to the Lexicon target curves too!
Does the Lexicon version of Dirac not allow you to manually tailor the target curve? The target curve should always be set to the requirements of room, speakers and user preference rather than a fixed target in any case.
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post #3338 of 4242 Old 03-27-2019, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by dschulz View Post
Does anyone know what the differences are between the SCL-3 and SCL-4, beyond the obvious? ISTM they are very, very similar in terms of performance, so I'm just curious what the use cases are that would drive a decision between the SCL-3 (with two smaller bass drivers) and the SCL-4 (with one larger bass driver).
Agree Dan, I’ve never understood the usage case for the SCL3, especially since it can’t reach as low (per the specs) as the SCL4.

The only scenario I can think of is maybe it’s for below screen situations which can’t accommodate the (not inconsiderable) height of the SCL4’s.
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post #3339 of 4242 Old 03-27-2019, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Does the Lexicon version of Dirac not allow you to manually tailor the target curve? The target curve should always be set to the requirements of room, speakers and user preference rather than a fixed target in any case.
It appears to be a rebadged Arcam 860, so it should allow custom target curves within Dirac unless it was disabled. I hope they would not do that because that would be very limiting and would defeat one of the key features of Dirac Live.
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post #3340 of 4242 Old 03-27-2019, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Does the Lexicon version of Dirac not allow you to manually tailor the target curve? The target curve should always be set to the requirements of room, speakers and user preference rather than a fixed target in any case.
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
It appears to be a rebadged Arcam 860, so it should allow custom target curves within Dirac unless it was disabled. I hope they would not do that because that would be very limiting and would defeat one of the key features of Dirac Live.
Yes you can. You actually start with the normal plain vanilla dirac target curve, but then can select the Harman curve option which can also then be manipulated.
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post #3341 of 4242 Old 03-27-2019, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Yes you can. You actually start with the normal plain vanilla dirac target curve, but then can select the Harman curve option which can also then be manipulated.
Arcam makes solid gear. The Harmon/Lexicon acquisition should strengthen the product offering with additional software bells and whistles and better hardware/software support. This should be a win/win in the long-term.
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post #3342 of 4242 Old 03-28-2019, 07:12 AM
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Yes you can. You actually start with the normal plain vanilla dirac target curve, but then can select the Harman curve option which can also then be manipulated.
OK, in that case if you wanted to try Harman's new curve, you could just re-create yourself in the Dirac software, assuming you can find it somewhere. I'm assuming the new curve is in the SDP-75, maybe an owner of that unit can post a screen grab of the target curve?
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post #3343 of 4242 Old 03-28-2019, 07:24 AM
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You are is somewhat correct about MC-10 vs Arcam. There are some additions in the MC-10:
  • Harman target curve
  • Access to SFM (if you want to buy a $199 MiniDSP and a $99 Umik1, plus take the measurements yourself)
  • Lexicon’s Logic7 / Logic Immersion upmixer
  • Ongoing Harman based improvements to firmware
  • Improved aesthetics (unless you like the Arcam face plate better)

The Arcam is an excellent product, but some may prefer the Lexicon for the reasons above.

NOTE ON SFM:

Typically a dealer has the UMIK-1 microphone and takes measurements and then sends them to Harman. The results are sent back to the dealer and they put the parameters into the MiniDSP, so that response is nice and flat, plus seat to seat variation is minimized. Then Dirac is run after the parameters have been put into the MiniDSP to flatten out any remaining peaks (John has done it and says the results are pretty amazing). The MC10 calibration with SFM is considered a “Synthesis Performance” calibration. (Full Synthesis is with an SDEC or SDP-75 calibration.)

Last edited by Rex Anderson; 03-29-2019 at 06:32 AM.
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post #3344 of 4242 Old 03-28-2019, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
You are is somewhat correct about MC-10 vs Arcam. There are some additions in the MC-10:

  • Harman target curve
  • Access to SFM (if you want to buy a $199 MiniDSP and a $99 Umik1, plus take the measurements yourself)
  • Lexicon’s Logic7 / Logic Immersion upmixer
  • Ongoing Harman based improvements to firmware
  • Improved aesthetics (unless you like the Arcam face plate better)

The Arcam is an excellent product, but to me the $500 premium is well justified for the above benefits.



NOTE ON SFM:

Typically a dealer has the Umik microphone and goes in and takes the measurements, and then sends the measurements to Kevin Voecks or Kevin Kent. The results are sent back to the dealer and they put the parameters into the MiniDSP, so that response is nice and flat, plus seat to seat variation is minimized. Then Dirac is run after the parameters have been put into the MiniDSP to flatten out any remaining peaks (John has done it and says the results are pretty amazing).



The MC10 calibration with SFM is considered a “Synthesis Performance” calibration. (Full Synthesis is with an SDEC or SDP75 calibration.)
Rex,

Which miniDSP models do they "Approve"?

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post #3345 of 4242 Old 03-28-2019, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
  • Lexicon’s Logic7 / Logic Immersion upmixer
  • Ongoing Harman based improvements to firmware
*cough*

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post #3346 of 4242 Old 03-28-2019, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
Typically a dealer has the Umik microphone and goes in and takes the measurements, and then sends the measurements to Kevin Voecks or Kevin Kent. The results are sent back to the dealer and they put the parameters into the MiniDSP, so that response is nice and flat, plus seat to seat variation is minimized. Then Dirac is run after the parameters have been put into the MiniDSP to flatten out any remaining peaks (John has done it and says the results are pretty amazing).


Interesting that a miniDSP rather than BSS processor is used. Do the two define Q in the same way?

Also, does this still require Harman subs/amps or can one now use others (at own risk)?

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post #3347 of 4242 Old 03-28-2019, 05:16 PM
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Some thoughts on room EQ and the "Harman" curve

This discussion illustrates some fundamental issues with respect to room equalization. I spend many pages in my book discussing this in detail, but here are some simplified thoughts.

As the "creator" of the "new Harman target curve" I can clear up some misunderstandings. Those who have the 3rd edition of my book can see where the curve came from - Figure 12.4. It is nothing more than the steady-state room curve that results from measuring any of several forward-firing loudspeakers that have been awarded very high ratings in double-blind listening tests. These steady-state room curves are substantially predictable from the "early reflections" curve in the spinoramas, as is illustrated.

Now, if you measure such a curve or something very close to it, and your speakers are conventional forward firing designs, it means that you probably have chosen well. Small tilt-like deviations may be seen and broadband tone-control-like adjustments can be made to achieve a satisfactory overall spectral balance. No small detail adjustments should be made because it is highly likely that they are acoustical interference (non-minimum-phase) phenomena that two ears and a brain interpret as innocent spaciousness - room sound. "Correcting" these is likely to degrade the audible performance of truly good loudspeakers - unfortunately this behavior is not uncommon in auto-EQ algorithms created by companies that do not make loudspeakers. Their marketing philosophy is that their magic can make any loudspeaker in any room into a perfect system. Sorry, but a small omni mic and an analyzer are not the equivalent of two ears and a brain. It is not uncommon to be forced to override auto EQ with manual adjustments to restore the inherent sound quality of excellent loudspeakers. In some cases the "off" icon is the preferred solution.

The simple fact is that a steady-state room curve is not accurately descriptive of sound quality - comprehensive anechoic data are remarkably capable, but such data are rare.

The Harman curve is not a "target" in the sense that any flawed loudspeaker can be equalized to match it and superb sound will be the reward. The most common flaws in loudspeakers are resonances (which frequently are not visible in room curves) and irregular directivity (which cannot be corrected by equalization). The only solution to both problems is better loudspeakers, the evidence of which is in comprehensive anechoic data.

Remember, the Harman curve relates to conventional forward-firing loudspeaker designs. Legitimate reasons for differences are different loudspeaker directivities - omni, dipoles, etc. - or rooms that are elaborately acoustically treated, or both.

If a "target' curve has been achieved, and the sound quality is not satisfactory, the suggestion is often to go into the menu, find the manual adjustment routine, and play around with the shape of the curve until you or your customer like the sound. This is not a calibration. This is a subjective exercise in manipulating an elaborate tone control. Once set it is fixed, and in it will be reflected timbral features of the music being listened to at the time. In other words, the circle of confusion is now included in the system setup. By all means do it, but do not think that the exercise has been a "calibration". Old fashioned bass & treble tone controls and modern "tilt" controls are the answer and they can be changed at will to compensate for personal taste and excesses or deficiencies in recordings. Sadly, many "high end" products do not have tone controls - dumb. It is assumed that recordings are universally "perfect" - wrong!

All that said, equalization of steady-state room curves at low frequencies is almost mandatory in small rooms. Multiple subwoofers can reduce seat-to-seat variations so that the EQ works for more than one listener - Chapter 8.

Those wanting to dig deeper can read my book or look at this open-access paper:
Toole, F. E. (2015). “The Measurement and Calibration of Sound Reproducing Systems”, J. Audio Eng. Soc., vol. 63, pp.512-541. This is an open-access paper available to non-members at www.aes.org
http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=17839
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post #3348 of 4242 Old 03-28-2019, 11:27 PM
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Official JBL Synthesis / Pro / Revel Home Theater Thread

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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Agree Dan, I’ve never understood the usage case for the SCL3, especially since it can’t reach as low (per the specs) as the SCL4.



The only scenario I can think of is maybe it’s for below screen situations which can’t accommodate the (not inconsiderable) height of the SCL4’s.


The SCL4 isn’t as good as the SCL3 - spacing of the woofer and compression driver is further apart than optimal which leads to vertical off axis issues. On the SCL3 the spacing is much closer, and vertical off axis better.

You can hear the lobing easily on the SCL-4 if you play pink noise and move your head up / down relative to the speaker baffle.

There’s a good paper on the Pi speakers website that explains the relevant math / theory.

Pg13: http://www.pispeakers.com/Pi_Speakers_Info.pdf

The SCL4 was intended as a drop in replacement for an older Synthesis speaker - keep the back box and drop in the new baffle. Guess that constrained them somewhat.

The cone area of the two drivers in the 3 is also a little larger than the driver in the 4. Though whether that makes any difference I’m not sure.

The SCL-3 is truly an awesome speaker, the 4 not as great.


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post #3349 of 4242 Old 03-29-2019, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post
The SCL4 isn’t as good as the SCL3 - spacing of the woofer and compression driver is further apart than optimal which leads to vertical off axis issues. On the SCL3 the spacing is much closer, and vertical off axis better.

You can hear the lobing easily on the SCL-4 if you play pink noise and move your head up / down relative to the speaker baffle.

There’s a good paper on the Pi speakers website that explains the relevant math / theory.

Pg13: http://www.pispeakers.com/Pi_Speakers_Info.pdf

The SCL4 was intended as a drop in replacement for an older Synthesis speaker - keep the back box and drop in the new baffle. Guess that constrained them somewhat.

The cone area of the two drivers in the 3 is also a little larger than the driver in the 4. Though whether that makes any difference I’m not sure.

The SCL-3 is truly an awesome speaker, the 4 not as great.
How does horizontal lobing figure in to comparing the SCL-3 vs. SCL-4?

Sort of related: setting aside concerns about drive equipment requirements and achieving +6dB on top of already eardrum damaging levels, I've been curious about SCL-2 vs. M2 in a blank slate dedicated residential-sized HT design where M2's would be flush mounted. Would either one have less acoustic issues to consider?

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post #3350 of 4242 Old 03-29-2019, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Agree Dan, I’ve never understood the usage case for the SCL3, especially since it can’t reach as low (per the specs) as the SCL4.



The only scenario I can think of is maybe it’s for below screen situations which can’t accommodate the (not inconsiderable) height of the SCL4’s.

I’ve never seen the case for the SCL4 if the SCL3 fits, honestly. In addition to the acoustic advantages Nyal discussed, the SCL3 is clearly a more expensive speaker to build: 2 neo magnet woofers vs 1 just slightly bigger mud magnet woofer.

As for LF extension, all these will be used with subs and room correction. The SCL3 should have higher SPL capability down low, though I suspect both speakers are ultimately broadband SPL limited by what the tiny ring radiation can do at the bottom of its passband.

The SCL4 objectively should be 20-30% cheaper than the SCL3. Or use woofer like those in the SCL2.

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post #3351 of 4242 Old 04-14-2019, 11:37 AM
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FYI: John Schuermann is holding a projector shootout April 27 and 28 and is also having a HT party Friday night (the 26th) at his place. This is a good chance to check out his SCL2 based Synthesis theater and the Revel Salon2s. It’s not a sales event, just a friendly get together. He just finalized the details for the event. All of the following projectors will be there for the shootout and Kris Deering will be on hand to calibrate and co-host.

Sony VPL-VW995ES - Sony's laser projector with the ARC-F lens, MSRP $34999
Sony VPL-VW695ES - Sony's most popular 4K model on the AVS Forum, MSRP $9999
JVC DLA-RS3000 - JVC's top of the line bulb based projector with premium lens and 8K upconversion, MSRP $17999
JVC DLA-RS2000 - JVC's middle of the line 4K projector and most popular on the AVS Forum, MSRP $7999

WHAT: A chance to compare the top 4K projectors in the industry under controlled conditions, with Special Guests:

Kris Deering (Deep Dive AV, Sound and Vision)
Chris Deutsch (JVC)
Russell Warnhoff (Kaleidescape)
Adam Fleckles (Denver area Sony Rep)
Shawn Kelly (Panamorph - tentative)
Craig Rounds (CIR Engineering)

All projectors will be calibrated by Kris Deering, with possible assistance from Craig. While the AVS Forum has given me permission to post about the event, this is NOT an AVS Forum sponsored event. This is an educational event only, NOT a sales event, and everyone is welcome.

WHEN: April 27th and 28th, 2019, 1-6 pm, with a tentative "pre-party" and get-together the evening of Friday, April 26 6-9 pm probably at my house. Friday night would be an opportunity to hear a JBL Synthesis Immersive Surround System, plus our Speaker Shootout Winner the Revel Salon2, plus see the JVC DLA-RS3000 in action.

As mentioned, Sound and Vision technical editor and calibrator extraordinaire Kris Deering will be in town to properly set up all the projectors for the event. Depending on his schedule, he may also be available to calibrate your own personal display during his stay.

Details and dates:

Pre-Event Party and Get-Together:

Friday night, April 26, 6-9 pm
Location TBD

Projector Expo / Shootout:

Session 1: Saturday, April 27, 1-6 pm
Session 2: Sunday, April 28, 1-6 pm

LOCATION:

525 N. Cascade Ave, Colorado Springs CO 80903

We will be using a Stewart StudioTek130 screen in a light controlled room.

HE IS EXPECTING A LARGE NUMBER OF ATTENDEES. PLEASE LET HIM KNOW ASAP if you want to attend. You can RSVP by PM'ing John here at the AVS Forum or by sending him an email at: [email protected]

ABOUT KRIS DEERING, SPECIAL GUEST AND CALIBRATOR:

Kris Deering has been involved in the Home Theater industry in many capacities. He is currently a writer/technical editor for Sound and Vision magazine and a calibrator and consultant through his own company, Deep Dive AV. He has also been a writer and editor for various other publications, both in print and online, including Home Theater magazine and Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity. Kris has done work for some of the biggest names in the AV industry, offering a wide range of services including calibration, product development, product testing and training. Many of you know of him already thanks to his major contributions to this forum.
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post #3352 of 4242 Old 04-15-2019, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
WHAT: A chance to compare the top 4K projectors in the industry under controlled conditions, with Special Guests:

Kris Deering (Deep Dive AV, Sound and Vision)
Chris Deutsch (JVC)
Russell Warnhoff (Kaleidescape)
Adam Fleckles (Denver area Sony Rep)
Shawn Kelly (Panamorph - tentative)
Craig Rounds (CIR Engineering)

All projectors will be calibrated by Kris Deering, with possible assistance from Craig. While the AVS Forum has given me permission to post about the event, this is NOT an AVS Forum sponsored event. This is an educational event only, NOT a sales event, and everyone is welcome.
.
Wow, this sounds like a great get together. Kris and Craig are two of the most knowledgeable calibrators and people in the AV industry. And no one measures up to Chris Deutsch on JVCs.

Seriously anyone interested in these pjs or AV in general should try to attend.
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post #3353 of 4242 Old 04-17-2019, 09:09 AM
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Axpona had a few setups that I got to enjoy this past weekend. In one room they had the little L-100 vintage looking speakers and man, I was pretty impressed by those guys, but.... Right next door they had the 228Be's setup and those were very impressive. They played one track, Planet Dada (Flamboyant) by the artist Yello which is comprised of some very dynamic and quick transients that the 228's absolutely nailed. Great sounding speaker and a wonderful option for those that can't afford the other speaker that was up on the 7th floor of the hotel.....

The Salon 2's. Boy oh boy was I excited to hear them for the first time. It was very disappointing to learn that their setup was off somewhere. In the rear of the room and into the hallway they were filling both with enormous amounts of deep articulate bass, but in the seating location, for whatever was setup incorrectly, it was virtually non-existent. Knowing that something like this can be easily overcome, I chose to remain in the room for a while and focus on the rest of the speaker and just mentally block the setup issue. Everything else about the speaker was flawless. Just incredible accuracy and neutral as everyone that knows Harman would come to expect.

I need them in my life.
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post #3354 of 4242 Old 04-17-2019, 10:35 AM
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Synthesis set up (rear of room)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dschulz View Post
Does anyone know what the differences are between the SCL-3 and SCL-4, beyond the obvious? ISTM they are very, very similar in terms of performance, so I'm just curious what the use cases are that would drive a decision between the SCL-3 (with two smaller bass drivers) and the SCL-4 (with one larger bass driver).
I designed my room with SCL-4s as bed speakers (8) and SCL-3s (8) on the ceiling. Chose the SCL-3s as Ceiling speakers as they were more conducive (due to smaller size) to sinking into ceiling and aiming at MLP. SCL-4s along side walls (all aimed to MLP).

You can see port opening for Wisdom Audio tapped horns (subs). Four of these along the side wall 1/4 points (per Adam Pelz). They are shallow but almost 7' tall. Seatons for low bass.

Note SCL-4s on side wall and SCL-3s on ceiling (Pic below):

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I salute our Immersion professionals: Curt Hoyt to which I am very thankful for positioning my JBL loudspeakers correctly to achieve a very tight bubble and the greatly missed Peter CINERAMAX whose fearless R&D in PRO-RIBBON cinemas, curation of most immersive Kaleidescape scripts and forging ahead to 55 loudspeaker Crystal Led Cinemas will pave the road ahead. And Adam Pelz for bringing the system to jawdropping life!

Last edited by thebland; 04-17-2019 at 10:39 AM.
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post #3355 of 4242 Old 04-17-2019, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Axpona had a few setups that I got to enjoy this past weekend. In one room they had the little L-100 vintage looking speakers and man, I was pretty impressed by those guys, but.... Right next door they had the 228Be's setup and those were very impressive. They played one track, Planet Dada (Flamboyant) by the artist Yello which is comprised of some very dynamic and quick transients that the 228's absolutely nailed. Great sounding speaker and a wonderful option for those that can't afford the other speaker that was up on the 7th floor of the hotel.....

The Salon 2's. Boy oh boy was I excited to hear them for the first time. It was very disappointing to learn that their setup was off somewhere. In the rear of the room and into the hallway they were filling both with enormous amounts of deep articulate bass, but in the seating location, for whatever was setup incorrectly, it was virtually non-existent. Knowing that something like this can be easily overcome, I chose to remain in the room for a while and focus on the rest of the speaker and just mentally block the setup issue. Everything else about the speaker was flawless. Just incredible accuracy and neutral as everyone that knows Harman would come to expect.

I need them in my life.

Sounds like they wired one of the Salons2's wrong! Was the phantom image messed up too? If not, you were just sitting in a bass null. Bad setup indeed.
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post #3356 of 4242 Old 04-17-2019, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
I designed my room with SCL-4s as bed speakers (8) and SCL-3s (8) on the ceiling. Chose the SCL-3s as Ceiling speakers as they were more conducive (due to smaller size) to sinking into ceiling and aiming at MLP. SCL-4s along side walls (all aimed to MLP).

You can see port opening for Wisdom Audio tapped horns (subs). Four of these along the side wall 1/4 points (per Adam Pelz). They are shallow but almost 7' tall. Seatons for low bass.

Note SCL-4s on side wall and SCL-3s on ceiling

That looks like it will be awesome. What are the room dimensions? It looks like a BIG room!
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post #3357 of 4242 Old 04-17-2019, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
That looks like it will be awesome. What are the room dimensions? It looks like a BIG room!
26’ X 17’ 6” X 12’. Note the ceiling is closer to 10.5’ due to room isolation. Thanks.

I salute our Immersion professionals: Curt Hoyt to which I am very thankful for positioning my JBL loudspeakers correctly to achieve a very tight bubble and the greatly missed Peter CINERAMAX whose fearless R&D in PRO-RIBBON cinemas, curation of most immersive Kaleidescape scripts and forging ahead to 55 loudspeaker Crystal Led Cinemas will pave the road ahead. And Adam Pelz for bringing the system to jawdropping life!
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post #3358 of 4242 Old 04-17-2019, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
Sounds like they wired one of the Salons2's wrong! Was the phantom image messed up too? If not, you were just sitting in a bass null. Bad setup indeed.
No, that part was fine, they were both certainly in-phase. I think it was just poor placement.

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post #3359 of 4242 Old 04-17-2019, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
I designed my room with SCL-4s as bed speakers (8) and SCL-3s (8) on the ceiling. Chose the SCL-3s as Ceiling speakers as they were more conducive (due to smaller size) to sinking into ceiling and aiming at MLP. SCL-4s along side walls (all aimed to MLP).



You can see port opening for Wisdom Audio tapped horns (subs). Four of these along the side wall 1/4 points (per Adam Pelz). They are shallow but almost 7' tall. Seatons for low bass.



Note SCL-4s on side wall and SCL-3s on ceiling (Pic below):





Fantastic! One vote for you to start a build thread (which I still haven’t done on mine).


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post #3360 of 4242 Old 04-17-2019, 04:20 PM
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26’ X 17’ 6” X 12’. Note the ceiling is closer to 10.5’ due to room isolation. Thanks.
Darn near perfect ratios, eh? The HT I had a few years ago was very similar. I miss it, sold the house...

Last edited by Rex Anderson; 04-19-2019 at 04:13 PM.
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