Official JBL Synthesis / Pro / Revel Home Theater Thread - Page 122 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3631 of 3770 Old 09-25-2019, 09:01 PM
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I did not get involved until early 1980’s. The Crown DC300A was a nail driver.

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post #3632 of 3770 Old 09-26-2019, 01:06 PM
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We are working on a system with an early Synthesis one speaker system for the front three channels. It has a SDEC 1000A along with a couple of 650 amplifiers. We replaced the original JBL processor a few years ago with a Lexicon MC 12. The system is 17 years old and the amplifiers are starting to fail. Not sure of the condition of the SDEC. This is a pretty low use system as the client only comes up for vacations so I was thinking I could replace the electronics with something more generic. Would need hi/low crossover for all three front channels which we are familiar with as we build speaker triamplified speaker systems periodically. Not sure what to do about the music/movies configuration? If possible I would connect as movies only. We did not install the original speaker system,but I don't think the music/movies option was being utilized at all from day 1. If I used a processor with Audyssey xt32 and the required amount of amplification I could equalize the overall system after inserting the crossovers for the front channels in between the processor and amplifiers. Not sure of other ramifications of reworking like this? Thanks for any input!
Follow up on the Synthesis One fix. We did manage to pull the 2245 woofers out and brought them up for a one day (extra charge for fast service) refoaming from Minnesota based "Midwest Speaker" Got them back installed before our ciient was heading up to spend a week or so with the system. As mentioned system still sounds pretty great. Might replace the Old Synthesis processor with Minidsp at some point in the future. Thanks for the help!
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post #3633 of 3770 Old 09-28-2019, 03:26 AM
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Just looking the new HDI series from JBL, the HDI 3800 flagship tower seems pretty a floorstander version of the SCL-2?
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post #3634 of 3770 Old 10-01-2019, 11:00 AM
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They said once you go black and pro, you never go back. Here's my new JBL 104.

I'm a bit disappointed that the cables supplied by JBL are of pretty low quality. Not gold plated connection in this era?

The base of the speaker is so small that I can't place a door wedge underneath for fear it wobbles and topples too easily.
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post #3635 of 3770 Old 10-01-2019, 11:22 AM
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It'd be interesting to hear your impressions on the 104 especially vs. using 3 series in that application. Lemme guess...no hiss?

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post #3636 of 3770 Old 10-01-2019, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
They said once you go black and pro, you never go back. Here's my new JBL 104.

I'm a bit disappointed that the cables supplied by JBL are of pretty low quality. Not gold plated connection in this era?

The base of the speaker is so small that I can't place a door wedge underneath for fear it wobbles and topples too easily.
nice classic keyboard!

let us know how you like those 104's

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It'd be interesting to hear your impressions on the 104 especially vs. using 3 series in that application. Lemme guess...no hiss?
this might help a little


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post #3637 of 3770 Old 10-01-2019, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by 12B4A View Post
It'd be interesting to hear your impressions on the 104 especially vs. using 3 series in that application. Lemme guess...no hiss?
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nice classic keyboard!

let us know how you like those 104's
I'm having a hard time hunting a good PS/2 keyboard. While USB will be just fine, I prefer the last-resort-it-just-works PS/2 connection, especially in UEFI/BIOS.

Unfortunately, I don't have the LSR 3-P series. While I would love to buy that, I've heard too many hiss complains, which even plagues the MKii series. The 104 has no hiss. Yay! Before the 104, I have the Swan M50W 2.1 speakers. Comparison wise, for the mids and highs, the 104 sounds cleaner, and manages to present a few details that I've not heard before. Wow from such tiny budget speakers. I do lose the deeper bass due to the lack of subwoofer. I hope JBL will release a tiny subwoofer in the future, something like the LSR310S. KRK and Presonus have models with 8" and 10". I hope JBL has one too in case someone wants to expand to 5.1 surround
Construction wise, they are not as heavy as I thought (based on YouTube reviews). I think it will even topple when placed on the Audioengine DS2 mat. The volume knob is solid and feels great. One thing that irks is the placement of the JBL logo badge:- it's in front of the driver. JBL could have positioned it higher or lower, away from the driver.

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post #3638 of 3770 Old 10-04-2019, 02:42 PM
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Can anyone tell us more about this "leaked" pic of an upcoming (or not) JBL K2 model..?
Looks very interesting. Rex..? Anyone..?!?
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post #3639 of 3770 Old 10-04-2019, 03:15 PM
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Can anyone tell us more about this "leaked" pic of an upcoming (or not) JBL K2 model..?
Looks very interesting. Rex..? Anyone..?!?

Our rep told me "they are on hold and not coming any time soon". They do look interesting!
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post #3640 of 3770 Old 10-04-2019, 05:09 PM
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Can anyone tell us more about this "leaked" pic of an upcoming (or not) JBL K2 model..?
Looks very interesting. Rex..? Anyone..?!?
The only reference I could find with a reverse image search is a post on a Norwegian website talking about the differences between the Greg Timbers designs and the newer stuff from JBL. The poster said that a new K2 incorporating the new technologies would look something like this. I think it's a fan render, not a leak from JBL.
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post #3641 of 3770 Old 10-04-2019, 05:57 PM
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The only reference I could find with a reverse image search is a post on a Norwegian website talking about the differences between the Greg Timbers designs and the newer stuff from JBL. The poster said that a new K2 incorporating the new technologies would look something like this. I think it's a fan render, not a leak from JBL.

Whatever the case may be, they look great and I'd like to hear them, lol. When I was at Harman a few months ago, I saw a lot of the new products before they got released at CEDIA. I did not see those sitting around.

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post #3642 of 3770 Old 10-04-2019, 06:04 PM
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The poster said that a new K2 incorporating the new technologies would look something like this. I think it's a fan render, not a leak from JBL.

That's where I found the pic. And the poster was at the time, an official JBL Synthesis dealer, so I definitely don't think it's a fan render..
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post #3643 of 3770 Old 10-04-2019, 06:36 PM
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I also posted this pic on the Lansing Heritage forums a while back to get more info. It was instantly removed by the mods. No discussion on unreleased prototypes allowed..
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post #3644 of 3770 Old 10-04-2019, 08:02 PM
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Agreed, those look mean and sexy at the same time. At least we all got our fill of HT porn for the night
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post #3645 of 3770 Old 10-05-2019, 04:35 AM
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Always think if its leaked or a render then it's going to happen sometime in the future.

Love the futuristic grey/black look.

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post #3646 of 3770 Old 10-05-2019, 05:18 AM
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Our rep told me "they are on hold and not coming any time soon". They do look interesting!
They probably need more time to figure out where to put the speaker binding posts since they aren't in the pic.

Definitely looks like an M2 impregnated a Revel. They should do it...

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post #3647 of 3770 Old 10-05-2019, 07:04 AM
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They probably need more time to figure out where to put the speaker binding posts since they aren't in the pic.

Definitely looks like an M2 impregnated a Revel. They should do it...
It's been definitively confirmed by a second hand source that they're wireless.
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post #3648 of 3770 Old 10-05-2019, 11:07 AM
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It's been definitively confirmed by a second hand source that they're wireless.
If you tell me they'd also be battery powered then I better start loading up on lottery tickets...
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post #3649 of 3770 Old 10-07-2019, 10:57 AM
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If you tell me they'd also be battery powered then I better start loading up on lottery tickets...
Optoma yellow top deep cycle batts is the call so far. Interstate batteries apparently introduce a ground loop hum.

European Models do not accept banana plugs
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post #3650 of 3770 Old 10-16-2019, 10:36 AM
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708i + DCI amp ?+SUB

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum and would like to ask your wise input.

It turns out that I can get a nice deal on a pair of B-stock 708i's. I would still need to get a DCI 2/300N with that.

My question is, if I plan to get a sub with it in the future, should I invest in one of the multi channel amps now?

Can for example a DCI 4/300N drive a sub such as the S2S-EX if I bridge the third and fourth channel(recommended are 1200W)?

Or do I need to go DCI 4/600N which will get costly. Or does it then make more sense to get a seperate amp just for the sub?

I can get the dci2/300N amp(new)+ pair 708i's (second hand) for about 2000$.

Alternatively I could take a pair 705p (new), already powered for about 1200$ and add any active sub later if needed.

The purpose of the system is to do hobby mixing (deep house) as well as tiny monthly indoor raves within a 30 sqm space. It's also an investment for life, or at least decades to come.

Hope you can help me out! Open to any suggestions.

Best regards,

Simon
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post #3651 of 3770 Old 10-16-2019, 12:45 PM
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Presently, based on stock availability, there are deals on NEW 708i and Crown DCi 4|1250N (being discontinued as I was told).

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post #3652 of 3770 Old 10-16-2019, 03:15 PM
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Hi all,

I'm new to this forum and would like to ask your wise input.

It turns out that I can get a nice deal on a pair of B-stock 708i's. I would still need to get a DCI 2/300N with that.

My question is, if I plan to get a sub with it in the future, should I invest in one of the multi channel amps now?

Can for example a DCI 4/300N drive a sub such as the S2S-EX if I bridge the third and fourth channel(recommended are 1200W)?

Or do I need to go DCI 4/600N which will get costly. Or does it then make more sense to get a seperate amp just for the sub?

I can get the dci2/300N amp(new)+ pair 708i's (second hand) for about 2000$.

Alternatively I could take a pair 705p (new), already powered for about 1200$ and add any active sub later if needed.

The purpose of the system is to do hobby mixing (deep house) as well as tiny monthly indoor raves within a 30 sqm space. It's also an investment for life, or at least decades to come.

Hope you can help me out! Open to any suggestions.

Best regards,

Simon
30 sqm, ok...but the height?? You can go DCI 4/300 but with sub you're super stretched to the max (I suppose you have 75 cubic meter room). The 3rd and 4th channel bridged will probably clip. A DCI 4/600 is more confortable for your needs: 1200W for S2S-EX or 2*600 for a pair of S2S-EX. They're excellent subs...wonderful subs. but they need power.
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post #3653 of 3770 Old 10-18-2019, 08:53 AM
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30 sqm, ok...but the height?? You can go DCI 4/300 but with sub you're super stretched to the max (I suppose you have 75 cubic meter room). The 3rd and 4th channel bridged will probably clip. A DCI 4/600 is more confortable for your needs: 1200W for S2S-EX or 2*600 for a pair of S2S-EX. They're excellent subs...wonderful subs. but they need power.
Hey, thanks for your input! That makes sense actually. The 4/600N is almost double in price which only makes sense if I get everything immediately.

I think I will go 2/300N for a stereo now and add the S2S-EX later with its own amping. They don't require crown amping right? So I can find something with more power and at the same time save some $$.

Or save some money by going 2x705p plus get a sub immediately, that could also work. Decisiooooons...
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post #3654 of 3770 Old 10-23-2019, 08:46 PM
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My head is spinning. JBL has so many speakers it is mind blowing. I don't even understand what synthesis is. I'm thinking of building a home theatre down the road, with LCR costing 2-7k total for 3 speakers (maybe 20-30k total for components). Are the JBL 708i the way to go here? Or should I consider any of the other thousand JBL models?

OK second question.

JBL 708i (assuming this is what is best) vs. Revel M126Be for LCR (assuming Revels can get loud enough)?

I am looking at bookshelf Revels since I could save money and use more for subs. The M126Be and 708i are comparable in cost.
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post #3655 of 3770 Old 10-24-2019, 11:00 AM
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My head is spinning. JBL has so many speakers it is mind blowing. I don't even understand what synthesis is. I'm thinking of building a home theater down the road, with LCR costing 2-7k total for 3 speakers (maybe 20-30k total for components). Are the JBL 708i the way to go here? Or should I consider any of the other thousand JBL models?

OK second question.

JBL 708i (assuming this is what is best) vs. Revel M126Be for LCR (assuming Revels can get loud enough)?

I am looking at bookshelf Revels since I could save money and use more for subs. The M126Be and 708i are comparable in cost.
If you are going to use a projector and acoustically transparent (AT) screen, you could use JBL SCL series in wall speakers.

The divisions of Harman are Revel, JBL Professional and JBL Synthesis. They all have separate web sites that are fairly easy to navigate.

The Revel M126Be is an excellent speaker but will not play as loud as the JBL 708 (i or P). JBL speakers with compression drivers (CD's) are probably a better way to go for home theater (HT).

Also, with Revel (which I own and love), you are paying a bit more for the beautiful cabinets. If you want Revel for HT, I suggest you get tower speakers (like the F208) for more power handling/higher SPL capability. I use F208s and a C208 for my front L/C/R and F206's for my rear surrounds plus two subs. My system plays as loud as I can handle without strain, dynamic compression or amp clipping. I use an ATI AT4005 amp (200W/ch) to drive the 5 channels.
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post #3656 of 3770 Old 10-24-2019, 11:17 AM
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If you are going to use a projector and acoustically transparent (AT) screen, you could use JBL SCL series in wall speakers.

The divisions of Harman are Revel, JBL Professional and JBL Synthesis. They all have separate web sites that are fairly easy to navigate.

The Revel M126Be is an excellent speaker but will not play as loud as the JBL 708 (i or P). JBL speakers with compression drivers (CD's) are probably a better way to go for home theater (HT).

Also, with Revel (which I own and love), you are paying a bit more for the beautiful cabinets. If you want Revel for HT, I suggest you get tower speakers (like the F208) for more power handling/higher SPL capability. I use F208s and a C208 for my front L/C/R and F206's for my rear surrounds plus two subs. My system plays as loud as I can handle without strain, dynamic compression or amp clipping. I use an ATI AT4005 amp (200W/ch) to drive the 5 channels.
Thank you so much for your assistance here and in other threads. You've been most helpful! I have more questions.......... I hope you don't mind.

1. I am open to using the JBL SCL series. My issues are (1) I don't know how much these cost. I am in Canada and can't find any websites listing them, and even in USD I can't find anything online. (2) I also am not familiar with the performance of these speakers. I'm guessing they're all excellent, but I've been looking at objective measurements and I can't find the "spinorama" for these.

2. The revel M126Be are from a pretty high "tier" of their speaker line. The F228Be tower is 5000$ a pop for example and they use beryllium etc. I was thinking that perhaps these are a better speaker than the 708 (which are excellent of course). Some blind reviews and charts I've been seeing suggest that Revels might have a slight edge on JBL when they're priced matched.

3. The revel does not require a specific and expensive amplifier. So, yes they're more expensive because of the fancy wood etc., but maybe they're better "value" since I'm paying for just the speaker and not a special amp. The amp alone is 2k at least in CAD.

4. The M126Be have a sensitivity I think of about 88 or 89 in normal room (86 in chamber?). This means if I have 3 of these going at about 30 watts, they put out about 95db of sound at 15 feet. My impression is that this was plenty loud. I am very happy to be corrected on this! Maybe it is cutting it too close?
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post #3657 of 3770 Old 10-24-2019, 11:46 AM
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JBL SCL-2 MSRP is $6,000 each
JBL SCL-3 MSRP is $3,000 each
JBL SCL-4 MSRP is $3,000 each
JBL SCL-5 MSRP is $2,500 each


My ATI 4005 amp (200W/ch) is just enough to drive the F208's to the levels I want and I'm a bit less than 10' from them. A 3 way tower speaker has an additional midrange driver that helps with power handling/SPL capability.

The F226Be would be a better choice in my opinion. I don't think the M126Be will cut it at a distance of 15' but the 708 probably will. Both will require multiple subs to handle the low end and give the speakers/amps a break from trying to achieve levels below 80Hz. Sitting 15 feet back from a speaker means you must have a big room. I had a 16' x 23' x 10' HT with Dunlavy SC-V's driven by a Bryston 4B SST amp (250W channel). The amp would clip on peaks if I tried to push levels too loud but I didn't have subs at the time.

You have to take into account peaks that can clip amps and damage them or blow tweeters. That's why many folks prefer compression drivers for home theater applications. Sensitivity of the M126Be is 86 dB and can only handle 150W.
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post #3658 of 3770 Old 10-24-2019, 12:12 PM
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JBL SCL-2 MSRP is $6,000 each
JBL SCL-3 MSRP is $3,000 each
JBL SCL-4 MSRP is $3,000 each
JBL SCL-5 MSRP is $2,500 each


My ATI 4005 amp (200W/ch) is just enough to drive the F208's to the levels I want and I'm a bit less than 10' from them. A 3 way tower speaker has an additional midrange driver that helps with power handling/SPL capability.

The F226Be would be a better choice in my opinion. I don't think the M126Be will cut it at a distance of 15' but the 708 probably will. Both will require multiple subs to handle the low end and give the speakers/amps a break from trying to achieve levels below 80Hz. Sitting 15 feet back from a speaker means you must have a big room. I had a 16' x 23' x 10' HT with Dunlavy SC-V's driven by a Bryston 4B SST amp (250W channel). The amp would clip on peaks if I tried to push levels too loud but I didn't have subs at the time.

You have to take into account peaks that can clip amps and damage them or blow tweeters. That's why many folks prefer compression drivers for home theater applications. Sensitivity of the M126Be is 86 dB and can only handle 150W.
I would love F226Be, but those are 3500$ USD a pop, which is outside of my range. So the M126Be has the benefits of being amazing Be level and would work well with subs. But I think you've convincing me well enough to stay away from bookshelves for my home theater. My math suggests that at 150w they can go up to 100db at 15 ft which sounds plenty, but maybe I shouldn't risk it? I keep reading about people doing bookshelves with subs in their theaters, how do they do it?

The JBL SCL seem lovely, but appear to be out of my budget. I'm hoping not to spend more than the cost of the JBL 708, or maybe 2k a pop. I could spend more but they would need to be something pretty special. The JBL 708 are apparently amazing and cost about 2k, so it would need to be better. If you have any suggestions for better speakers at 2k for a home theater I am all ears!

I'm also looking at PSB, Bryston, Triton, but the measurements of the 708 seem phenomenal.

Thanks again for all your help
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post #3659 of 3770 Old 10-24-2019, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Snoochers View Post
4. The M126Be have a sensitivity I think of about 88 or 89 in normal room (86 in chamber?). This means if I have 3 of these going at about 30 watts, they put out about 95db of sound at 15 feet. My impression is that this was plenty loud. I am very happy to be corrected on this! Maybe it is cutting it too close?
Wattage vs. Sens @ 1m

1w - 86dB
2w - 89dB
4w - 92 dB
8w - 95 dB
16w - 98dB
32w - 101dB
64w - 104dB
128w - 107dB (We have just now finally reached reference level peaks, but still at only 1m)
256w - 110dB and above power handling of speaker

While the stat is you lose 6dB per doubling of distance, in domestic spaces you don't lose quite that much. Let's just say at 4m you've lost 6-8 total dB which is going to be pretty close to what you'd likely find. Even at only 6dB of loss at 256 wattts, 100w overpowering the speakers, you aren't at reference levels and are likely already experiencing some compression across the speaker's passband, even if you are passing off the bass to some subs. True that you gain some sensitivity to the speaker by redirecting the bass but in all honesty, for a dedicated theater type space, where soundtrack peaks and dynamics are what sets decent spaces apart from great spaces, you want the added dynamics, with headroom to spare, to really set yourself in the camp of the latter.
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post #3660 of 3770 Old 10-24-2019, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Wattage vs. Sens @ 1m

1w - 86dB
2w - 89dB
4w - 92 dB
8w - 95 dB
16w - 98dB
32w - 101dB
64w - 104dB
128w - 107dB (We have just now finally reached reference level peaks, but still at only 1m)
256w - 110dB and above power handling of speaker

While the stat is you lose 6dB per doubling of distance, in domestic spaces you don't lose quite that much. Let's just say at 4m you've lost 6-8 total dB which is going to be pretty close to what you'd likely find. Even at only 6dB of loss at 256 wattts, 100w overpowering the speakers, you aren't at reference levels and are likely already experiencing some compression across the speaker's passband, even if you are passing off the bass to some subs. True that you gain some sensitivity to the speaker by redirecting the bass but in all honesty, for a dedicated theater type space, where soundtrack peaks and dynamics are what sets decent spaces apart from great spaces, you want the added dynamics, with headroom to spare, to really set yourself in the camp of the latter.
I am in agreement, I think. But isn't 100db already REALLY loud? I thought average listening was in lik the 80 range with peaks in the 90s, not the 100s. I know reference is one thing, but I don't think I'll be referencing much in my home theater. But maybe I'll change my mind haha.
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