Official JBL Synthesis / Pro / Revel Home Theater Thread - Page 143 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4261 of 4289 Old 06-24-2020, 10:30 AM
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@Rex Anderson Any news about the SCL-5? Thanks.
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post #4262 of 4289 Old 06-24-2020, 11:43 AM
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@Rex Anderson Any news about the SCL-5? Thanks.

Not due until early 2021. Sorry!
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post #4263 of 4289 Old 06-26-2020, 06:41 PM
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For an atmos setup with M2 doing LCR duty, I was wondering if it is better to use a pair of SCL3 for just the side surrounds and use 708i for wides/ceiling/back surrounds.

All but side surrounds are going to be placed at 10’+ distance from the closest seat. Side surrounds would be placed at about 4’ from the closest seat. I am hoping that SCL3’s driver configuration would work better at 4-5 foot distance when compared to 708i. Please let me know if this is correct.

Also, kindly confirm if it is ok to mix SCL 3 and 708i speakers. If they are not going to work well together, I would just go with 708i all around. Thank you!
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post #4264 of 4289 Old 06-28-2020, 03:07 AM
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Do you even need 708 for surrounds and distance this short?
Won't 705 be enough?
Or is it a really large space/you want all surrounds be absolutely the same?
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post #4265 of 4289 Old 06-28-2020, 05:47 AM
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Do you even need 708 for surrounds and distance this short?
Won't 705 be enough?
Or is it a really large space/you want all surrounds be absolutely the same?
Well, it is going to be a 26 ft x 20 ft x 14.5 ft room with just one row of 3 seats at around 14 ft from the front wall. As you rightly said, 705i should be able to do the job for atleast the side surrounds, but I am not too sure if 705i would be able to keep up with M2/708i planned for rest of the channels. Since all other surround/ceiling channels are going to be located 10-16 ft away, I believe I should stick to 708i for those.

Edit 1: Forgot to state that the farthest seat from the side surrounds would be at about 12 ft. I think 705i might not be able to hit reference at 12 ft.
Edit 2: I read somewhere that speakers with smaller drivers with closely spaced tweeter/woofer design are better for closer listening distances. That's why I started looking at SCL-3 for side surrounds that are going to be placed closer than rest of the speakers in the Atmos setup.
Edit 3: I also gave a thought about using SCL-3 for all the ear level surrounds/wides, but subsequently decided against it for a couple of reasons: (1) 708i is significantly cheaper (2) 708i has an option to be driven by DCi-600 amp to bump up its peak SPL by a few dB which is especially useful for channels that are 15 ft away and this may not be possible with SCL-3 (3) I can afford to lose a foot or two to mount 708i at a proper angle as I have a lot of empty space in the planned theater (4) I am going to cover all the speakers with stretch fabric anyway and aesthetics of SCL-3 isn't that useful for me. I do understand that SCL-3 might have a couple of minor advantages over 708i, but I cannot conclude if it is worth paying 3x for them.

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post #4266 of 4289 Old 06-28-2020, 09:00 AM
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Edit 1: Forgot to state that the farthest seat from the side surrounds would be at about 12 ft. I think 705i might not be able to hit reference at 12 ft.
Almost 4 meters is quite far, yes, they might not be able to do it.
You need 100 dB peak, so if we go by "3 db per doubling of distance" that would be around 106 dB.It goes just there in datasheet (if you use sub).

I don't know if a lot of films use a full power on surrounds though and if a full dynamic range is needed.
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post #4267 of 4289 Old 06-28-2020, 09:40 AM
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Almost 4 meters is quite far, yes, they might not be able to do it.
You need 100 dB peak, so if we go by "3 db per doubling of distance" that would be around 106 dB.It goes just there in datasheet (if you use sub).

I don't know if a lot of films use a full power on surrounds though and if a full dynamic range is needed.
LSR705 can deliver 107db peak at 1 meter so if we assume 3db per doubling in his room, it can deliver a maximum of 101db peak (which is 4db below reference level requirements). Crossing them over at 120hz might raise peak SPL - I asked JBL but they have not answered.

It is common for installers not to spec surrounds and atmos speakers as strict as LCR & subs as, as you state, it is rare that the surrounds has this kind of high SPL content. But if you want to check the "Reference-level capability" checkbox for your theater, the LSR705 is not going to cut it unless you are sitting ~1.5m away.

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post #4268 of 4289 Old 06-28-2020, 09:57 AM
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LSR705 can deliver 107db peak at 1 meter so if we assume 3db per doubling in his room, it can deliver a maximum of 101db peak (which is 4db below reference level requirements). Crossing them over at 120hz might raise peak SPL - I asked JBL but they have not answered.

It is common for installers not to spec surrounds and atmos speakers as strict as LCR & subs as, as you state, it is rare that the surrounds has this kind of high SPL content. But if you want to check the "Reference-level capability" checkbox for your theater, the LSR705 is not going to cut it unless you are sitting ~1.5m away.
His room is 7500 cubic feet, therefore reference requirement is 80 dB @ -20 dBFS
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post #4269 of 4289 Old 06-28-2020, 10:04 AM
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LSR705 can deliver 107db peak at 1 meter so if we assume 3db per doubling in his room, it can deliver a maximum of 101db peak (which is 4db below reference level requirements). Crossing them over at 120hz might raise peak SPL - I asked JBL but they have not answered.

It is common for installers not to spec surrounds and atmos speakers as strict as LCR & subs as, as you state, it is rare that the surrounds has this kind of high SPL content. But if you want to check the "Reference-level capability" checkbox for your theater, the LSR705 is not going to cut it unless you are sitting ~1.5m away.
His room is 7500 cubic feet, therefore reference requirement is 80 dB @ -20 dBFS
Do you have a link to the official conversion table? (Not that I don't believe you but I have had trouble finding it myself except for various unconfirmed forum Posts)

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post #4270 of 4289 Old 06-28-2020, 10:07 AM
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Do you have a link to the official conversion table? (Not that I don't believe you but I have had trouble finding it myself except for various unconfirmed forum Posts)
https://www.atsc.org/wp-content/uplo...o-loudness.pdf
page 36
It doesn't explicitly says which category is home theatre, as this is document for control rooms, but category one looks like the right one and applicable to HT as well.




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post #4271 of 4289 Old 06-28-2020, 10:41 AM
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Do you have a link to the official conversion table? (Not that I don't believe you but I have had trouble finding it myself except for various unconfirmed forum Posts)
https://www.atsc.org/wp-content/uplo...o-loudness.pdf
page 36
It doesn't explicitly says which category is home theatre, as this is document for control rooms, but category one looks like the right one and applicable to HT as well.



Thank you so much! That mapping fits perfectly my experiences in my own room size.

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post #4272 of 4289 Old 06-28-2020, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aats View Post
You need 100 dB peak, so if we go by "3 db per doubling of distance" that would be around 106 dB.It goes just there in datasheet (if you use sub).

I don't know if a lot of films use a full power on surrounds though and if a full dynamic range is needed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasHansen View Post
LSR705 can deliver 107db peak at 1 meter so if we assume 3db per doubling in his room, it can deliver a maximum of 101db peak (which is 4db below reference level requirements). Crossing them over at 120hz might raise peak SPL - I asked JBL but they have not answered.

It is common for installers not to spec surrounds and atmos speakers as strict as LCR & subs as, as you state, it is rare that the surrounds has this kind of high SPL content. But if you want to check the "Reference-level capability" checkbox for your theater, the LSR705 is not going to cut it unless you are sitting ~1.5m away.
I was always under the assumption that for every doubling of distance, there is a decrease of 6 dB under test conditions - http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...c/isprob2.html and this translates to somewhere about 5 dB under real world situation. Another concern of mine is that if I drive 705i to its extreme level, there could be some distortion as well.

To play safe, I decided to go with a surround capable of 114 dB peaks at 1m which is possible with both 708i and SCL-3. But couldn't conclude if it is worth paying 3x for SCL-3 for its smaller drivers and probably closer driver spacing since the closest seat would be put at about 5 ft from it. For speakers with larger drivers (708i here), I believe the driver integration happens a little farther and I am not sure if 5 ft is adequate. Thank you!

Edit: I may be wrong here, but my understanding is that for a single row 3 seat theater I am building, a speaker like 708i which can be precisely aimed at the seating with necessary wall/ceiling mounts is better than an equivalent in-wall that cannot be angled that perfectly. Looking at the spinorama charts of 708i, I believe it is better to be on-axis (H: -20 to +20 degrees and V: 0 to 5 degrees) to get the best experience and I don't think the frequency response of SCL 3/4 would be very different. I was wondering if this alone is a good reason for opting for 708i over SCL 3/4 if sound quality is the only concern and aesthetics are not.

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post #4273 of 4289 Old 06-28-2020, 10:32 PM
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Strongly depends on room size, sound absorbtion, etc. But usually number used is 3 dB. It's quite approximate anyway.
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post #4274 of 4289 Old 06-29-2020, 12:26 PM
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Edit 1: Forgot to state that the farthest seat from the side surrounds would be at about 12 ft. I think 705i might not be able to hit reference at 12 ft.
You only need to calculate reference volume to the MLP, as this is the seat measured for setting SPL. 0 dB only applies to the MLP when talking reference level. During playback seats closer to any particular speaker relative to the MLP will be louder than reference and seats farther away will be lower.
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post #4275 of 4289 Old 06-30-2020, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by aats View Post
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Originally Posted by JonasHansen View Post
Do you have a link to the official conversion table? (Not that I don't believe you but I have had trouble finding it myself except for various unconfirmed forum Posts)
https://www.atsc.org/wp-content/uplo...o-loudness.pdf
page 36
It doesn't explicitly says which category is home theatre, as this is document for control rooms, but category one looks like the right one and applicable to HT as well.



Thank you so much! That mapping fits perfectly my experiences in my own room size.
You'll notice many people claiming that they listen "below reference". I'm pretty sure that many of them actually use the wrong number for reference.
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post #4276 of 4289 Old 07-05-2020, 02:38 PM
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I made an "impulse" buy early last week due to a deal I couldn't pass up.
3 x HDI-3800.


These were purchased for the theater room in my new house, which should be ready late Fall.
Until they are ready for my new room, I am working on making a temporary home for them in my current room.

I pulled out one of the 24" subs I had up front, so I will only be rocking a single 24" sub until I move.
I'll also have to hope my OCD doesn't get the best of me since the center speaker isn't perfectly lined up.

They haven't been fired up yet since I just got to unboxing them and setting them up today. Then it started storming, so I will have to wait until tomorrow.

First impressions.
-These are nicest looking speaker I have owned.
-They are a lot bigger than I had imagined(even though I knew the dimensions)
-It is going to be a shame to put these behind a screen.
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post #4277 of 4289 Old 07-06-2020, 05:51 AM
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I made an "impulse" buy early last week due to a deal I couldn't pass up.
3 x HDI-3800.


These were purchased for the theater room in my new house, which should be ready late Fall.
Until they are ready for my new room, I am working on making a temporary home for them in my current room.

I pulled out one of the 24" subs I had up front, so I will only be rocking a single 24" sub until I move.
I'll also have to hope my OCD doesn't get the best of me since the center speaker isn't perfectly lined up.

They haven't been fired up yet since I just got to unboxing them and setting them up today. Then it started storming, so I will have to wait until tomorrow.

First impressions.
-These are nicest looking speaker I have owned.
-They are a lot bigger than I had imagined(even though I knew the dimensions)
-It is going to be a shame to put these behind a screen.
Cannot wait to hear your thoughts about them.
Allen
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post #4278 of 4289 Old 07-06-2020, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
I made an "impulse" buy early last week due to a deal I couldn't pass up.
3 x HDI-3800.


These were purchased for the theater room in my new house, which should be ready late Fall.
Until they are ready for my new room, I am working on making a temporary home for them in my current room.

I pulled out one of the 24" subs I had up front, so I will only be rocking a single 24" sub until I move.
I'll also have to hope my OCD doesn't get the best of me since the center speaker isn't perfectly lined up.

They haven't been fired up yet since I just got to unboxing them and setting them up today. Then it started storming, so I will have to wait until tomorrow.

First impressions.
-These are nicest looking speaker I have owned.
-They are a lot bigger than I had imagined(even though I knew the dimensions)
-It is going to be a shame to put these behind a screen.

If you have the room, you could leave your other sub and turn the speaker upside down in between them so the tweeter is still at the correct height. Can always use isolation pads to get the perfect height if OCD kicks in
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post #4279 of 4289 Old 07-08-2020, 08:55 AM
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I just took the plunge.

Today I ordered 2x HDI-3800, 1x HDI-4500 Center Channel, 2x HDI-1600 Rears in the Gray Oak finish.

For now they'll be running 5.1.2 in my media room (with a pair of KEF Q50a Atmos modules up front). Eventually I'll install some in-ceiling overhead speakers and go with dual HDI-1200P subwoofers to make the system 5.2.4 (maybe the SCL-5 for in-ceilings?). What would be another recommendation for in-ceilings overhead channels? JBL Studio 2 6IC?
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Main System: Vizio P70 4K TV. JBL Synthesis HDI-3800, HDI-4500, HDI-1600. KEF Q50a, Mirage BPS 400. Denon AVR-X3700H Receiver. XBOX One S. Zappiti Mini 4K HDR. GIK 242 Panels, Tri Traps, Monster Bass Trap, Control4 Desktop: Dynaudio BM6A mkII. Paradigm SUB10 w/ PBK. Cambridge DACMagic+ DAC. GIK 242 Panels, Monster Bass Trap Master Bedroom: Vizio M55 4K HDR/DV. BG Radia In-Wall/Ceiling Speakers (5.2.2). NAD T758v3 Receiver, Control4 Patio: Definitive Technology AW6500, NAD CI720, Control4

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post #4280 of 4289 Old 07-08-2020, 10:14 AM
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I just took the plunge.

Today I ordered 2x HDI-3800, 1x HDI-4500 Center Channel, 2x HDI-1600 Rears in the Gray Oak finish.

For now they'll be running 5.1.2 in my media room (with a pair of KEF Q50a Atmos modules up front). Eventually I'll install some in-ceiling overhead speakers and go with dual HDI-1200P subwoofers to make the system 5.2.4 (maybe the SCL-5 for in-ceilings?). What would be another recommendation for in-ceilings overhead channels? JBL Studio 2 6IC?
I have a 7.2 system with 7 series speakers and for my ceiling I will go with the Revel C763L. Here is a Link: https://www.revelspeakers.com/produc...gid=in-ceiling These speakers would work well with your HDI series speakers. The ceiling speaker don't get a ton information so timbre matching is not as important as the rest of the speakers IMHO. Oh I will also add two more 705i surrounds for 9.2.4 system.
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post #4281 of 4289 Old 07-08-2020, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V View Post
I just took the plunge.

Today I ordered 2x HDI-3800, 1x HDI-4500 Center Channel, 2x HDI-1600 Rears in the Gray Oak finish.

For now they'll be running 5.1.2 in my media room (with a pair of KEF Q50a Atmos modules up front). Eventually I'll install some in-ceiling overhead speakers and go with dual HDI-1200P subwoofers to make the system 5.2.4 (maybe the SCL-5 for in-ceilings?). What would be another recommendation for in-ceilings overhead channels? JBL Studio 2 6IC?
SCL-5 is top of the line but is undergoing a redesign and will not be available until January 2021. MSRP will be $2,000 each, probably overkill for the HDI series.

The Revel C763L is highly recommended, it's a three way speaker that can handle a fair amount of power and the tweeter can be aimed at the listener.

If you aren't in a hurry, it might be a good idea to wait to see if any new JBL in ceiling speakers might be coming out that would be a good match for the HDI series (compression drivers instead of dome tweeters). New products are usually announced at CEDIA in September, but it has been cancelled due to the pandemic. I'm not sure how that affects things. I hear the HDI-1200P subs are awesome.
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post #4282 of 4289 Old 07-08-2020, 11:19 AM
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How about the in ceiling version of the SCS8? I'm not familiar with the model number but recall a speaker using the same driver as the SCS8 which uses a CD.
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post #4283 of 4289 Old 07-08-2020, 01:32 PM
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SCL-5 is top of the line but is undergoing a redesign and will not be available until January 2021. MSRP will be $2,000 each, probably overkill for the HDI series.

The Revel C763L is highly recommended, it's a three way speaker that can handle a fair amount of power and the tweeter can be aimed at the listener.

If you aren't in a hurry, it might be a good idea to wait to see if any new JBL in ceiling speakers might be coming out that would be a good match for the HDI series (compression drivers instead of dome tweeters). New products are usually announced at CEDIA in September, but it has been cancelled due to the pandemic. I'm not sure how that affects things. I hear the HDI-1200P subs are awesome.
Thanks, I'm not in a huge hurry (the KEF Q50a modules work in a pinch). HDI series in-ceilings (with the compression driver and HDI waveguide) would be cool, fingers crossed!

Main System: Vizio P70 4K TV. JBL Synthesis HDI-3800, HDI-4500, HDI-1600. KEF Q50a, Mirage BPS 400. Denon AVR-X3700H Receiver. XBOX One S. Zappiti Mini 4K HDR. GIK 242 Panels, Tri Traps, Monster Bass Trap, Control4 Desktop: Dynaudio BM6A mkII. Paradigm SUB10 w/ PBK. Cambridge DACMagic+ DAC. GIK 242 Panels, Monster Bass Trap Master Bedroom: Vizio M55 4K HDR/DV. BG Radia In-Wall/Ceiling Speakers (5.2.2). NAD T758v3 Receiver, Control4 Patio: Definitive Technology AW6500, NAD CI720, Control4
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post #4284 of 4289 Old 07-08-2020, 09:02 PM
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How about the in ceiling version of the SCS8? I'm not familiar with the model number but recall a speaker using the same driver as the SCS8 which uses a CD.
It is the JBL Control 328C. I use them with 708i up front and 705i surround/surround back for 7.2.4 and highly recommend them if you have ceiling space.

JVC DLA-N7 | Screen Research ClearPix 4K 130" 2.40 | Pioneer VSX-LX503 | Crown DCi 8|300N | 7.2.4 JBL 708i(3)+705i(4); JBL Control 328C (Atmos); Subwoofer Syzygy SLF-870 x 2 | Ferco seating
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post #4285 of 4289 Old 07-09-2020, 08:56 AM
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Thanks, I'm looking at the JBL Control 227C

Looks like it might be a good fit. Co-axial with the 1" Titanium compression driver with a 6.5" Kevlar-reinforced woofer.

Main System: Vizio P70 4K TV. JBL Synthesis HDI-3800, HDI-4500, HDI-1600. KEF Q50a, Mirage BPS 400. Denon AVR-X3700H Receiver. XBOX One S. Zappiti Mini 4K HDR. GIK 242 Panels, Tri Traps, Monster Bass Trap, Control4 Desktop: Dynaudio BM6A mkII. Paradigm SUB10 w/ PBK. Cambridge DACMagic+ DAC. GIK 242 Panels, Monster Bass Trap Master Bedroom: Vizio M55 4K HDR/DV. BG Radia In-Wall/Ceiling Speakers (5.2.2). NAD T758v3 Receiver, Control4 Patio: Definitive Technology AW6500, NAD CI720, Control4

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post #4286 of 4289 Old 07-10-2020, 08:54 AM
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I want to ask everyone: LCR: JBL M2, M2 crossover with SDP75, amplifier: ATI 542 will get better sound quality than Crown ma5000i?
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post #4287 of 4289 Old 07-12-2020, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Wk19821982-av View Post
I want to ask everyone: LCR: JBL M2, M2 crossover with SDP75, amplifier: ATI 542 will get better sound quality than Crown ma5000i?
It is my opinion that the amplifier differences evaporate once the room correction is accomplished with the SDP-75.



Just in case you are worried about the "modest" power of the ATI amps; my buddy uses 300WPC, class AB, Mark Levinson amps to drive his M2s. Once his system was corrected via the SDP-75 you could not hear any distortion no matter how loudly it was played. His system crosses the M2s over to the subwoofers @ 60Hz I think. I have AB Systems, 300WPC amps on my M2s and my experience is the same. My M2s are run full range.
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post #4288 of 4289 Old 07-13-2020, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wk19821982-av View Post
I want to ask everyone: LCR: JBL M2, M2 crossover with SDP75, amplifier: ATI 542 will get better sound quality than Crown ma5000i?
It is my opinion that the amplifier differences evaporate once the room correction is accomplished with the SDP-75.



Just in case you are worried about the "modest" power of the ATI amps; my buddy uses 300WPC, class AB, Mark Levinson amps to drive his M2s. Once his system was corrected via the SDP-75 you could not hear any distortion no matter how loudly it was played. His system crosses the M2s over to the subwoofers @ 60Hz I think. I have AB Systems, 300WPC amps on my M2s and my experience is the same. My M2s are run full range.
Thanks,The difference is not big, DSP is handed over to SDP75, I plan to use Crown MA5000i instead of Crown 5000hd, the two seem to be the same from the perspective of power amplifier.
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post #4289 of 4289 Old 07-13-2020, 10:54 AM
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Hi Guys,

I've read through many of these pages and could really use your help.

I have the 308's and LOVE them. They are hooked up to a Parasound preamp and TV and I must admit to cranking the heck out of them to relive my former concert days. Music is typically trance and such but also covers other genres. I also have an SVS sub hooked up.

I love them, but simply want MORE volume with scale and authority and no distortion. I love dynamics. Room is large at 12'x20' and I sit about 11 feet from the tv/speakers.

My dilemma - do I upgrade to a pair of powered 708's or do I look at the 4429's and external amp? I'm wondering if anyone has heard both of these and can comment.

I do enjoy the subtlety of the music at times while wanting shear power and dynamics at other times.
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