Official JBL Synthesis / Pro / Revel Home Theater Thread - Page 96 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 2183Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #2851 of 3420 Old 01-13-2018, 06:46 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Blackdevil77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Nassau County, Long Island, New York
Posts: 1,612
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 477 Post(s)
Liked: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by love_that_sound View Post
anyone here have experience with the Pro sub18? if so, which crown hd amp did you use?

Also, looking for brackets to fit the 708i for height use.
@JonasHansen has them but I believe they aren't fully set up/calibrated yet.

Based on the specs, I think a single I-tech 5000HD bridged per SUB18 would be a good match.
love_that_sound likes this.
Blackdevil77 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2852 of 3420 Old 01-13-2018, 07:16 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Delaware
Posts: 3,945
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 801 Post(s)
Liked: 412
^^^

Yeah you should be safe with 4,000 watts in 4 ohms...
love_that_sound likes this.

Mike Miles
[email protected]
mmiles is offline  
post #2853 of 3420 Old 01-13-2018, 09:55 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 560
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 421 Post(s)
Liked: 178
thanks mmiles and blackdevil77

JBL Array 1400, 880, & 800s on custom sound anchors / Revel C763L x4
Marantz AV8805 / TEAC NT-505 / Oppo 205 / Emotiva XPA DR3 / Emotiva XPA-7 Gen3
PSA S1801 x2
Bob Carver Crimson 350 tube monoblocks
JBL Everest DD67000s (awaiting amplification)
love_that_sound is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2854 of 3420 Old 01-14-2018, 03:02 AM
Advanced Member
 
JonasHansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Denmark
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 290 Post(s)
Liked: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post
@JonasHansen has them but I believe they aren't fully set up/calibrated yet.

Based on the specs, I think a single I-tech 5000HD bridged per SUB18 would be a good match.
I'm using a Crown Macro-tech 12000i for two subs.

Home Theater: JBL M2 & SUB18 powered by Crown and BSS.
JonasHansen is offline  
post #2855 of 3420 Old 01-14-2018, 01:16 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 560
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 421 Post(s)
Liked: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasHansen View Post
I'm using a Crown Macro-tech 12000i for two subs.
how are the subs for music? Its been my experience that ported subs and well ... music aren't a great combo.

JBL Array 1400, 880, & 800s on custom sound anchors / Revel C763L x4
Marantz AV8805 / TEAC NT-505 / Oppo 205 / Emotiva XPA DR3 / Emotiva XPA-7 Gen3
PSA S1801 x2
Bob Carver Crimson 350 tube monoblocks
JBL Everest DD67000s (awaiting amplification)
love_that_sound is offline  
post #2856 of 3420 Old 01-15-2018, 12:17 AM
Advanced Member
 
JonasHansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Denmark
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 290 Post(s)
Liked: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by love_that_sound View Post
how are the subs for music? Its been my experience that ported subs and well ... music aren't a great combo.
Some ported subs are crap for music and some sealed subs are crap for music. There is no "rule" IMO and it all depends on the specific subwoofer as a system.

I have not listened much to the SUB18s but I did own some S1S-EX'es (Also 18" ported JBL subs) for many years, and they sounded fantastic. I did have some Audiophile-like people visiting who first said that ported subs were just boom-boom boxes, but when they left they had another opinion.

EDIT: I can see from your signature that you have Array 1400 and Everest. Both great speakers IMO - and they're ported
TimVG and Blackdevil77 like this.

Home Theater: JBL M2 & SUB18 powered by Crown and BSS.
JonasHansen is offline  
post #2857 of 3420 Old 01-15-2018, 02:40 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 560
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 421 Post(s)
Liked: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasHansen View Post
Some ported subs are crap for music and some sealed subs are crap for music. There is no "rule" IMO and it all depends on the specific subwoofer as a system.

I have not listened much to the SUB18s but I did own some S1S-EX'es (Also 18" ported JBL subs) for many years, and they sounded fantastic. I did have some Audiophile-like people visiting who first said that ported subs were just boom-boom boxes, but when they left they had another opinion.

EDIT: I can see from your signature that you have Array 1400 and Everest. Both great speakers IMO - and they're ported
all certainly true! I notice you said did own some s1s... what do you use now?

Our living room isn't really large enough to fully enjoy the Everest unfortunately, so they'll wait until the move to the Big Island.

I'm having somewhat of a dilemma ... I can't decide if I should go the home sub route (PSA, FUNK, SVS, blah blah blah) or pick up this sub18 beast. Its a big enclosure and its white sheet is eye opening. I have no issue at all with the networked crown amps .. in many ways they are superior

We have a trinity signature sub now ... its been through 3 moves and is a little beat up, but still churns out lows like it did from day one. I've actually been debating on beginning a search for another and use 2. I just don't know. Unfortunately, this part of the country lacks stocking high quality HT dealers and nearly everything we've acquired was based on faith alone.
JonasHansen likes this.

JBL Array 1400, 880, & 800s on custom sound anchors / Revel C763L x4
Marantz AV8805 / TEAC NT-505 / Oppo 205 / Emotiva XPA DR3 / Emotiva XPA-7 Gen3
PSA S1801 x2
Bob Carver Crimson 350 tube monoblocks
JBL Everest DD67000s (awaiting amplification)

Last edited by love_that_sound; 01-15-2018 at 02:47 AM.
love_that_sound is offline  
post #2858 of 3420 Old 01-15-2018, 05:11 AM
gsr
Oppo Beta Group
 
gsr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 10,200
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1859 Post(s)
Liked: 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by love_that_sound View Post
Unfortunately, this part of the country lacks stocking high quality HT dealers and nearly everything we've acquired was based on faith alone.
It's amazing how common that situation is. Even living in a reasonably affluent area with a large population (Boston area), there are very few high quality high end A/V dealers around. If you're looking for a particular brand, as most of us typically are, it's even more restrictive because dealership agreements usually give 1 dealer in any given area exclusive rights to that brand. If you don't like that particular dealer for some reason, you're forced to go with a different brand or buy from someone like John S. There's really only 1 dealer in the Boston area that I would be enthusiastic about buying from, but they don't carry product lines that I'm interested in. I've had some really bad experiences from a few of the other local dealers. One specific example was a custom speaker finish order that was messed up by Focal and the dealer didn't have my back - on a purchase at full MSRP + 20% for the custom finish; that was my last purchase from that dealer who has since closed (the owner retired). Somewhat ironically, I've had pretty much nothing but great experiences dealing with dealers who aren't local to me (@SteveH specifically comes to mind; I haven't purchased anything from JohnS, but have had some email exchanges with him and am confident he would be excellent as well). I'm all for supporting the local brick and mortar businesses, but not when they don't deliver at least the same level of service you can get remotely; discounts off of MSRP are only part of that.
Ellebob and love_that_sound like this.
gsr is offline  
post #2859 of 3420 Old 01-15-2018, 05:58 AM
Advanced Member
 
JonasHansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Denmark
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 290 Post(s)
Liked: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by love_that_sound View Post
all certainly true! I notice you said did own some s1s... what do you use now?
I own two SUB18s now. Theater is still under construction, so haven't done extensive tests yet.
love_that_sound likes this.

Home Theater: JBL M2 & SUB18 powered by Crown and BSS.
JonasHansen is offline  
post #2860 of 3420 Old 01-15-2018, 12:32 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 560
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 421 Post(s)
Liked: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasHansen View Post
I own two SUB18s now. Theater is still under construction, so haven't done extensive tests yet.
well why not have 2! I can only imagine.

I've subscribed to another thread which features LF measurements in movies - some seem to be less than 10hz. This sub18 has published specs of 17hz.. is there a published 0-200hz graph somewhere of its real in-room measurements?

TBO ..i totally understand the inaudible infrasonic spectrum, but also understand woofers and spl. I guess I'm trying to decipher if there is a tradeoff somewhere between something published with say 7hz in-room and this sub18 with 17hz in-room.

JBL Array 1400, 880, & 800s on custom sound anchors / Revel C763L x4
Marantz AV8805 / TEAC NT-505 / Oppo 205 / Emotiva XPA DR3 / Emotiva XPA-7 Gen3
PSA S1801 x2
Bob Carver Crimson 350 tube monoblocks
JBL Everest DD67000s (awaiting amplification)
love_that_sound is offline  
post #2861 of 3420 Old 01-15-2018, 05:03 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Blackdevil77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Nassau County, Long Island, New York
Posts: 1,612
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 477 Post(s)
Liked: 226
I know 99% disagree with me, but I really feel like those super low frequencies are a total waste of energy/amplifier power. Most set ups that movies are mixed on don't extend that low, so I'm sure any information at that low of a frequency is either unfiltered junk, or left for whatever reason (maybe for those with butt kickers or similar devices).

I recently did some testing and measuring with my dual Submersive HP's, which extend VERY low in my set up and play quite loudly at those those super low frequencies. Even at 20 hz, the bass is barely audible, and being on a concrete slab, I don't feel anything. Nothing shakes, I don't feel anything on my body (pressure or anything) and all I hear are things rattling in my room. As the frequency decreases, so does the drama. Now completely inaudible, I still feel nothing, and the rattling in the room becomes more prominent. And this was upwards of 100db+ at the MLP in my basement theater, so it wasn't a low spl either.

So forgive me, but after experiencing that and talking with a lot of people who I find trustworthy in the audio world, I'm gonna concern myself with frequencies in the audible spectrum. If the sub plays below 20hz, that's cool, but it's not a make or break it for me. The SUB18 looks like like it'll play PLENTY low. Most of the frequency responses are 4 pi (full space) measurements, so in room frequency response will be a bit lower (they state 18hz for the SUB18).

That's just my opinion, there are plenty of excellent products out there. Pick whichever appeals to you. For me (personally), I want the SUB18's in my theater room.

Last edited by Blackdevil77; 01-15-2018 at 05:07 PM.
Blackdevil77 is offline  
post #2862 of 3420 Old 01-15-2018, 05:04 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
adidino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,899
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 500 Post(s)
Liked: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post
I know 99% disagree with me, but I really feel like those super low frequencies are a total waste of energy/amplifier power. Most set ups that movies are mixed on don't extend that low, so I'm sure any information at that low of a frequencies is either unfiltered junk, or left for whatever reason (maybe for those with butt kickers or similar devices).

I recently did some testing and measuring with my dual Submersive HP's, which extend VERY low in my set up and play quite loudly at those those super low frequencies. Even at 20 hz, the bass is barely audible, and being on a concrete slab, I don't feel anything. Nothing shakes, I don't feel anything on my body (pressure or anything) and all I hear are things rattling in my room. As the frequency decreases, so does the drama. Now completely inaudible, I still feel nothing, and the rattling in the room becomes more prominent. And this was upwards of 100db+ at the MLP in my basement theater, so it wasn't a low spl either.

So forgive me, but after experiencing that and talking with a lot of people who I find trustworthy in the audio world, I'm gonna concern myself with frequencies in the audible spectrum. If the sub plays below 20hz, that's cool, but it's not a make or break it for me. The SUB18 looks like like it'll play PLENTY low. Most of the frequency responses are 4 pi (full space) measurements, so in room frequency response will be a bit lower (they state 18hz for the SUB18).

That's just my opinion, there are plenty of excellent products out there. Pick whichever appeals to you. For me (personally), I want the SUB18's in my theater room.
I agree 100%
adidino is offline  
post #2863 of 3420 Old 01-15-2018, 05:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
adidino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,899
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 500 Post(s)
Liked: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasHansen View Post
Some ported subs are crap for music and some sealed subs are crap for music. There is no "rule" IMO and it all depends on the specific subwoofer as a system.

I have not listened much to the SUB18s but I did own some S1S-EX'es (Also 18" ported JBL subs) for many years, and they sounded fantastic. I did have some Audiophile-like people visiting who first said that ported subs were just boom-boom boxes, but when they left they had another opinion.

EDIT: I can see from your signature that you have Array 1400 and Everest. Both great speakers IMO - and they're ported
Agreed and the S2S EX2 and SUB18 are even notch above the S1S EX. Both fantastic subs.
John Schuermann likes this.
adidino is offline  
post #2864 of 3420 Old 01-15-2018, 06:15 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Frohlich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 4,344
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1960 Post(s)
Liked: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post
I know 99% disagree with me, but I really feel like those super low frequencies are a total waste of energy/amplifier power. Most set ups that movies are mixed on don't extend that low, so I'm sure any information at that low of a frequency is either unfiltered junk, or left for whatever reason (maybe for those with butt kickers or similar devices).

I recently did some testing and measuring with my dual Submersive HP's, which extend VERY low in my set up and play quite loudly at those those super low frequencies. Even at 20 hz, the bass is barely audible, and being on a concrete slab, I don't feel anything. Nothing shakes, I don't feel anything on my body (pressure or anything) and all I hear are things rattling in my room. As the frequency decreases, so does the drama. Now completely inaudible, I still feel nothing, and the rattling in the room becomes more prominent. And this was upwards of 100db+ at the MLP in my basement theater, so it wasn't a low spl either.

So forgive me, but after experiencing that and talking with a lot of people who I find trustworthy in the audio world, I'm gonna concern myself with frequencies in the audible spectrum. If the sub plays below 20hz, that's cool, but it's not a make or break it for me. The SUB18 looks like like it'll play PLENTY low. Most of the frequency responses are 4 pi (full space) measurements, so in room frequency response will be a bit lower (they state 18hz for the SUB18).

That's just my opinion, there are plenty of excellent products out there. Pick whichever appeals to you. For me (personally), I want the SUB18's in my theater room.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post
I agree 100%

I agree as well. I have dual JTR S2 subs and if you watch the beginning of "Edge of Tomorrow" with bass down under 10HZ, it just flexes my drywall and makes all kinds of things shake in my HT room. While fun to experience once is a while it doesn't sound like much except for my house sounding like it is about to fall apart. The "fun" bass to me is the chest thump most people seem to think of and I believe that is actually in the 50HZ to 120HZ range.
Frohlich is offline  
post #2865 of 3420 Old 01-15-2018, 06:18 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
adidino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,899
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 500 Post(s)
Liked: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
I While fun to experience once is a while it doesn't sound like much except for my house sounding like it is about to fall apart. The "fun" bass to me is the chest thump most people seem to think of and I believe that is actually in the 50HZ to 120HZ range.
Yep. The few titles out there that go that low make the experience a little obnoxious for my taste.
adidino is offline  
post #2866 of 3420 Old 01-15-2018, 06:22 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 560
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 421 Post(s)
Liked: 178
again, this is all on faith and research. You guys would be happy with the s1, s2, or sub18? TBO, I've been leaning towards these subs. I much prefer sq over LF extension and the majority of my listening is 2 channel.. the HT is some for friendly neighborhood bragging rights, but mostly for her to watch 4k UHD and NCAA football.

thanks for yalls input.

JBL Array 1400, 880, & 800s on custom sound anchors / Revel C763L x4
Marantz AV8805 / TEAC NT-505 / Oppo 205 / Emotiva XPA DR3 / Emotiva XPA-7 Gen3
PSA S1801 x2
Bob Carver Crimson 350 tube monoblocks
JBL Everest DD67000s (awaiting amplification)
love_that_sound is offline  
post #2867 of 3420 Old 01-15-2018, 06:23 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
farsider3000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,745
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1406 Post(s)
Liked: 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post
I know 99% disagree with me, but I really feel like those super low frequencies are a total waste of energy/amplifier power. Most set ups that movies are mixed on don't extend that low, so I'm sure any information at that low of a frequency is either unfiltered junk, or left for whatever reason (maybe for those with butt kickers or similar devices).

I recently did some testing and measuring with my dual Submersive HP's, which extend VERY low in my set up and play quite loudly at those those super low frequencies. Even at 20 hz, the bass is barely audible, and being on a concrete slab, I don't feel anything. Nothing shakes, I don't feel anything on my body (pressure or anything) and all I hear are things rattling in my room. As the frequency decreases, so does the drama. Now completely inaudible, I still feel nothing, and the rattling in the room becomes more prominent. And this was upwards of 100db+ at the MLP in my basement theater, so it wasn't a low spl either.

So forgive me, but after experiencing that and talking with a lot of people who I find trustworthy in the audio world, I'm gonna concern myself with frequencies in the audible spectrum. If the sub plays below 20hz, that's cool, but it's not a make or break it for me. The SUB18 looks like like it'll play PLENTY low. Most of the frequency responses are 4 pi (full space) measurements, so in room frequency response will be a bit lower (they state 18hz for the SUB18).

That's just my opinion, there are plenty of excellent products out there. Pick whichever appeals to you. For me (personally), I want the SUB18's in my theater room.
I think you would feel differently if you had put a subfloor over your concrete basement floor. The tactile feeling I get with my subwoofers is incredible. It truly can startle me as the energy is transferred through my wood floor. And that is a custom designed floor with two layers of subfloor with Green Glue, followed by two layers of mass loaded vinyl with green glue between those layers.

Have you considered JTR subs?

7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5 for surround & ceiling
Subs: JTR Captivator S2, JTR Captivator S1, 2 Seaton Submersive (dual 15")
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420
farsider3000 is offline  
post #2868 of 3420 Old 01-15-2018, 10:35 PM
Advanced Member
 
JonasHansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Denmark
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 290 Post(s)
Liked: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasHansen View Post
Some ported subs are crap for music and some sealed subs are crap for music. There is no "rule" IMO and it all depends on the specific subwoofer as a system.

I have not listened much to the SUB18s but I did own some S1S-EX'es (Also 18" ported JBL subs) for many years, and they sounded fantastic. I did have some Audiophile-like people visiting who first said that ported subs were just boom-boom boxes, but when they left they had another opinion.

EDIT: I can see from your signature that you have Array 1400 and Everest. Both great speakers IMO - and they're ported [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.avsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Agreed and the S2S EX2 and SUB18 are even notch above the S1S EX. Both fantastic subs.
I think the S1S-EX is a significant step above the S2S-EX.

Home Theater: JBL M2 & SUB18 powered by Crown and BSS.
JonasHansen is offline  
post #2869 of 3420 Old 01-16-2018, 03:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Blackdevil77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Nassau County, Long Island, New York
Posts: 1,612
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 477 Post(s)
Liked: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by love_that_sound View Post
again, this is all on faith and research. You guys would be happy with the s1, s2, or sub18? TBO, I've been leaning towards these subs. I much prefer sq over LF extension and the majority of my listening is 2 channel.. the HT is some for friendly neighborhood bragging rights, but mostly for her to watch 4k UHD and NCAA football.

thanks for yalls input.
The S1, S2 and SUB18 are all great subs. I'm sure you'd love any of them. As far as output, the SUB18 would best the other 2, I'm sure and the S1/S2 would extend a bit lower (sub 20hz). As far as sound quality/accuracy, the SUB18 was designed for accuracy and the 2269h driver used is a monster. The S1/S2 are also very highly regarded subs on here and for good reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
I think you would feel differently if you had put a subfloor over your concrete basement floor. The tactile feeling I get with my subwoofers is incredible. It truly can startle me as the energy is transferred through my wood floor. And that is a custom designed floor with two layers of subfloor with Green Glue, followed by two layers of mass loaded vinyl with green glue between those layers.

Have you considered JTR subs?
Perhaps, but I'm sure my main priority would still be the audible spectrum. I did consider JTR subs, strongly and heard/felt 2 JTR S2's on a wooden floor. There was a whole lotta shakin' goin on lol, I can definitely see how that could be fun. Almost like an amusement park ride with some content. With that experience, I'm still more concerned about accuracy in the audible range and that "chest slam" (50hz~63hz).
love_that_sound likes this.
Blackdevil77 is offline  
post #2870 of 3420 Old 01-16-2018, 10:52 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
farsider3000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,745
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1406 Post(s)
Liked: 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

Perhaps, but I'm sure my main priority would still be the audible spectrum. I did consider JTR subs, strongly and heard/felt 2 JTR S2's on a wooden floor. There was a whole lotta shakin' goin on lol, I can definitely see how that could be fun. Almost like an amusement park ride with some content. With that experience, I'm still more concerned about accuracy in the audible range and that "chest slam" (50hz~63hz).
I am with you on chest slam. I love it and I am actually trying different boosts around that frequency using my Xilica DSP for each of the four sub channels.

7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5 for surround & ceiling
Subs: JTR Captivator S2, JTR Captivator S1, 2 Seaton Submersive (dual 15")
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420
farsider3000 is offline  
post #2871 of 3420 Old 01-16-2018, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
John Schuermann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,727
Mentioned: 91 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2001 Post(s)
Liked: 2493
Had a long discussion with the Harman engineers about subwoofers at CES, both Pro and Consumer. Both are in total agreement - with subs that go down below 20 hz, you are giving up output for bass extension. The amount of power you need to deliver those subterranean bass frequencies with any authority is staggering; they all feel that delivering the goods cleanly and accurately down to 18 - 20 hz is far more important.

I have two S2S-EX subs and two HTPS400 subs, and the combo is potent, to say the least. The amount of slam and impact I get out of this system is staggering (IMO).

John Schuermann
The Screening Room Home Theater Sales and Design
JS Music and Sound Film Scoring and Sound Design
John Schuermann is offline  
post #2872 of 3420 Old 01-16-2018, 12:17 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,186
Mentioned: 310 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3726 Post(s)
Liked: 3692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post
The S1, S2 and SUB18 are all great subs. I'm sure you'd love any of them. As far as output, the SUB18 would best the other 2, I'm sure and the S1/S2 would extend a bit lower (sub 20hz). As far as sound quality/accuracy, the SUB18 was designed for accuracy and the 2269h driver used is a monster. The S1/S2 are also very highly regarded subs on here and for good reason.



Perhaps, but I'm sure my main priority would still be the audible spectrum. I did consider JTR subs, strongly and heard/felt 2 JTR S2's on a wooden floor. There was a whole lotta shakin' goin on lol, I can definitely see how that could be fun. Almost like an amusement park ride with some content. With that experience, I'm still more concerned about accuracy in the audible range and that "chest slam" (50hz~63hz).
The JTR subs would obliterate the JBL below 40hz. Above it, the S2 would still have the advantage as it has two drivers vs 1. The S1 would lag behind, though. The 2269h is displacement limited compared to the long stroke fi drivers that Jeff uses.
notnyt is offline  
post #2873 of 3420 Old 01-16-2018, 12:25 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,186
Mentioned: 310 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3726 Post(s)
Liked: 3692
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Had a long discussion with the Harman engineers about subwoofers at CES, both Pro and Consumer. Both are in total agreement - with subs that go down below 20 hz, you are giving up output for bass extension. The amount of power you need to deliver those subterranean bass frequencies with any authority is staggering; they all feel that delivering the goods cleanly and accurately down to 18 - 20 hz is far more important.

I have two S2S-EX subs and two HTPS400 subs, and the combo is potent, to say the least. The amount of slam and impact I get out of this system is staggering (IMO).
Power is cheap and there are many high power amp choices now. However, with proper enclosures/tuning, it's really not that staggering. If running sealed subs, the power demand is great. If you have the space for more subs, and can afford it, there's no reason you can't achieve both goals. That said, 18-20hz covers the majority of content, but there's still a good deal down below there. After lots of experimentation with monster systems in different configurations, I tune for about 15hz and have good response down to 10hz in my room.

I just moved my subs off the minidsp and onto my other processor so was taking measurements... I think this covers everything important. Below this, imo, is only worthwhile if you have a suspended floor, as you cannot hear it even at high levels, and the feeling is even very slight which gets masked by other content anyway. That said, if on a suspended floor or a riser, you'll feel it a bit. Unfortunately I'm on a concrete slab, but I use motion actuators to reproduce the very low stuff.

adidino and farsider3000 like this.
notnyt is offline  
post #2874 of 3420 Old 01-16-2018, 01:51 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Blackdevil77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Nassau County, Long Island, New York
Posts: 1,612
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 477 Post(s)
Liked: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
The JTR subs would obliterate the JBL below 40hz. Above it, the S2 would still have the advantage as it has two drivers vs 1. The S1 would lag behind, though. The 2269h is displacement limited compared to the long stroke fi drivers that Jeff uses.
I don't think they would obliterate it, but the JTRs would probably start to pull ahead, especially the S2 30hz and below. I think the SUB18 and S2 would be pretty close above 40hz. Even though the S2 has 2 drivers, it's sealed so the rear wave is contained in the cabinet.

I'd love to see data-bass test the SUB18. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening.
Blackdevil77 is offline  
post #2875 of 3420 Old 01-16-2018, 02:05 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,186
Mentioned: 310 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3726 Post(s)
Liked: 3692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post
I don't think they would obliterate it, but the JTRs would probably start to pull ahead, especially the S2 30hz and below. I think the SUB18 and S2 would be pretty close above 40hz. Even though the S2 has 2 drivers, it's sealed so the rear wave is contained in the cabinet.

I'd love to see data-bass test the SUB18. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening.
Ugh, pardon, bit delirious as I just got hit with a wicked sinus infection. I was comparing the 2269 as as driver vs the ones in the S1/S2, but ignoring the fact the 2269 is in a ported enclosure. I'm also pretty sure the data-bass tests were done using JTRs older less efficient subs. The 2269 is a great driver, it's just lacking a bit in the excursion department. So where the port tune can't aid it, it's going going to be limited in output, likely from about 25hz to 35hz or so. Obviously the sealed units will perform better below the tune of the ported cab. I was doing some modeling with the 2269 driver recently, I should see if I can find the data.
notnyt is offline  
post #2876 of 3420 Old 01-16-2018, 03:03 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
farsider3000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,745
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1406 Post(s)
Liked: 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
Ugh, pardon, bit delirious as I just got hit with a wicked sinus infection. I was comparing the 2269 as as driver vs the ones in the S1/S2, but ignoring the fact the 2269 is in a ported enclosure. I'm also pretty sure the data-bass tests were done using JTRs older less efficient subs. The 2269 is a great driver, it's just lacking a bit in the excursion department. So where the port tune can't aid it, it's going going to be limited in output, likely from about 25hz to 35hz or so. Obviously the sealed units will perform better below the tune of the ported cab. I was doing some modeling with the 2269 driver recently, I should see if I can find the data.
Jeff tested the newest 2017 models for the S1 and S2. I was the first customer to order and receive the updated 2017 drivers in the S2.

7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5 for surround & ceiling
Subs: JTR Captivator S2, JTR Captivator S1, 2 Seaton Submersive (dual 15")
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420
farsider3000 is offline  
post #2877 of 3420 Old 01-16-2018, 03:04 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,186
Mentioned: 310 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3726 Post(s)
Liked: 3692
Quote:
Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
Jeff tested the newest 2017 models for the S1 and S2. I was the first customer to order and receive the updated 2017 drivers in the S2.
Data-bass testing is done by Josh Ricci, the S2 listed there was tested in 2016.

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=133
notnyt is offline  
post #2878 of 3420 Old 01-16-2018, 03:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
farsider3000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,745
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1406 Post(s)
Liked: 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
Data-bass testing is done by Josh Ricci, the S2 listed there was tested in 2016.

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=133
Thanks. I am aware of data-bass and Josh as I have poured over ever inch of that site . Maybe you are right but I thought the 2016 test had the new 2017 driver as mine was delivered in February and he had them designed in late 2016 I believe.
Edit:: now I see the test was performed in August so yes, you are right. My S1 and S2 have the newer drivers that were not tested by data-bass. I would doubt much of an improvement, maybe a dB here or there.

7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5 for surround & ceiling
Subs: JTR Captivator S2, JTR Captivator S1, 2 Seaton Submersive (dual 15")
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420
farsider3000 is offline  
post #2879 of 3420 Old 01-16-2018, 03:13 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,186
Mentioned: 310 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3726 Post(s)
Liked: 3692
Quote:
Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
Thanks. I am aware of data-bass and Josh as I have poured over ever inch of that site . Maybe you are right but I thought the 2016 test had the new 2017 driver as mine was delivered in February and he had them designed in late 2016 I believe.
Test was August 2016 according to the site, so think it was the older ones. I'm gonna look for my modeling in a bit for the 2269. My head is swimming atm tho Lack of sleep was kicking my butt, then this sinus thing hit me and I'm a train wreck now.
notnyt is offline  
post #2880 of 3420 Old 01-16-2018, 03:14 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
farsider3000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,745
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1406 Post(s)
Liked: 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
Test was August 2016 according to the site, so think it was the older ones. I'm gonna look for my modeling in a bit for the 2269. My head is swimming atm tho Lack of sleep was kicking my butt, then this sinus thing hit me and I'm a train wreck now.
You are correct. I edited my post

7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5 for surround & ceiling
Subs: JTR Captivator S2, JTR Captivator S1, 2 Seaton Submersive (dual 15")
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420
farsider3000 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off