Power needed to get the best out of the ELAC Uni-Fi UB5 - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 50 Old 07-31-2016, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr_Hifi View Post
I just remembered i read the review of these speakers and they recommended going with beefier amp. Please have a read and don`t kill the messenger.

The Uni-Fi UB5s were better than the B6, but the Uni-Fi UB5s still seemed to be holding back, so we hooked up a pair of Klipsch RP-160M speakers, and they brought the Stones back in full force! Dynamics were much more alive over the RP-160Ms. .... The Uni-Fi UB5s had more weight and low-end punch, but missed too much of the RP-160M's dynamics. What was going on?

...
That's like saying that the sun shines in the day time. The ELAC speakers are reputed to be on the laid-back side. The Klipsch are reputed to be on the brighter more forward side, so anyone could have predicted that the Kipsch would sound more forward and more dynamic. The Klipsch is also a speaker with a higher sensitivity rating.

But, this does not tell us that the ELAC needs more power, only that it is voice a little differently than the Klipsch, and that it is a bit less sensitive, which anyone could have anticipated.

If you want speakers with a bit more presence, then Monitor Audio, Dali, Tannoy, and others would be considerations. If you want speakers that are a bit more laid-back -Elac, Wharfedale, B&W, Martin Logan Motion would be considerations.

Laid-Back or Forward is not a quality judgement, each appeals to someone, It is just different voicing. A different opinion of how a speaker should sound.

While some will claim the Klipsch has more dynamics, others will claim it is more harsh and fatiguing, and they are both right under the right circumstances. As I said before, Klipsch is not a speaker you want to use in an acoustically bright room.

I think you can choose any piece of equipment, regardless of what it is, and you will find just as many people who love it as you will people who hate it. That's why they make so many different types of equipment.

However, that is neither here nor there. It seems the OP has bought the ELAC Uni-Fi UB5, so that is what we have to work with.

The goal now is to find a suitable amp, in the very roughly $600 range.

Steve/bluewizard
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post #32 of 50 Old 07-31-2016, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again for all of your input. Just to clarify, I haven't actually purchased the speakers, I'm just very strongly leaning towards them as my speaker of choice (so many rave reviews, including the CNET review).
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post #33 of 50 Old 07-31-2016, 10:59 AM
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85db efficiency is very inefficient, IMO. It would take three times the amp power to get them to same level as a 94dB efficient speaker, for example.
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post #34 of 50 Old 07-31-2016, 11:32 AM
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85db efficiency is very inefficient, IMO. It would take three times the amp power to get them to same level as a 94dB efficient speaker, for example.
But an 85 dB sensitivity rating is the norm for 2-way speakers with a 5-1/4 driver. Since I select speakers based upon the sound qualities that I’m looking for, I tend to worry about sensitivity ratings in relationship to my gear already on hand (or what I’m willing to buy) and the volume levels I want to attain. If I find a speaker with a higher sensitivity rating and don’t like the sound. What’s the point? And for whatever reason (I don’t have a clue as to why), the speakers I’m sonically attracted to and have purchased happen to have fairly low sensitivity. I wonder if there is a pill for that .

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 amp & C48 preamp, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95, dbx 3BX, and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek E5Bi (were rebadged to R5Bi), RBH/EMP Tek R55Ti, PSA S3000i, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
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post #35 of 50 Old 01-13-2017, 03:20 PM
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What did you end up buying?
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post #36 of 50 Old 01-13-2017, 03:25 PM
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I wont argue with above points, just sharing my 2 cents.

marantz avr did x spl w/out distortion
nad amp of same watts did y spl which was 3db higher than x
2x nad amp in bridged mode did 6db higher than x

sound quality is objective but the 1x nad amp was a small % better than avr

this my 2 cents.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300 LG oled c9 77
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS, Audioengine A2+
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP, Velodyne HGS 12, Velodyne VA1512
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post #37 of 50 Old 01-13-2017, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Dayton Audio APA100

I decided to start with a cheap, basic amp to see if I was happy with the sound before jumping on something more expensive. I came across this CNET review of a $100 amp, the Dayton Audio APA100, which is only 75wpc into 4 ohms, and figured at that price I didn't have too much to lose. Turns out it sounds great with the UB5s, and seems to have plenty of power - I've yet to turn the volume knob above 50% for more than a few seconds. Powerful bass and crystal clear highs with great detail and separation. Very happy with the set up, and glad I didn't spend a ton on a fancy amp.
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post #38 of 50 Old 01-13-2017, 07:35 PM
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I feel bad for how much time you spent writing this up.
Don't. I didn't do it for your benefit. As I said:

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Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post
...

I'm not going to convince you of anything though am I? You're too heavily "invested" and locked up tight in your subjective logic box.
...
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post #39 of 50 Old 01-14-2017, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
My father had McIntosh tube amps...1950's era stuff. Asked him why and he said sometimes I like over designed, overbuilt and wildly over engineered stuff...don't need it, but it is really cool--just because I'm old does not mean I don't like cool stuff! He would sit in the basement and bias the tubes, hook up his o-scope and meters to the thing as audio was his hobby. Hobbies take work so the Altecs he built himself (common in the 50's)
Dad had exactly the same kind of setup; Mac tube amps each powering a Voice of the Theater in custom cabinets he bought in Colombia.

Each speaker was the size of a small desk and would put incredible volumes with 30 watts/channel.

Once, in Belgium, as a teen, I was home alone with some friends cranking out some ELP at max volume with the 20 feet of sliding glass doors open.

This very nice Belgian gentleman rang the bell and asked me to turn it down as he could hear them...a 1/4 mile away!

Those speakers were donated to the University of Miami music dept when he retired them for some DQ10s and moved on to solid state Mac amps and a hybrid Mac preamp.

My brother gave those away to a friend!

Geoff A. J., California
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post #40 of 50 Old 01-14-2017, 09:56 AM
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I had some inefficient 4 ohm B&W CM1 Concept 90s that my daughter now has that never ever gavee my NAD 7250PE 50 watt amp any trouble whatsoever.

Back in the day I bought a NAD 770 AVR that had better specs than the 7250PE and on a few, very rare occasions, it would shut down during an especially loud whiz bang move at VERY high volumes despite having a built in fan.

Never damaged the speakers or the amp when the amp shut down due to thermal overload.

That $2500 AVR (in today's money) eventually failed and I replaced it with a $500 or so Denon AVR 1912 about 10 years ago.

Still have the Denon, works great, never once shut down driving the CM1 Concept 90s.

I'll never buy another NAD AVR ever again.

The 7250PE though is still in use daily for music in my secondary system.

I think the fear that a modern mid priced AVR can't handle something rated near 4 ohms even at high SPLs is misplaced.

Glad the OP found a nice inexpensive solution for his speakers.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #41 of 50 Old 01-14-2017, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post

I think the fear that a modern mid priced AVR can't handle something rated near 4 ohms even at high SPLs is misplaced.

Glad the OP found a nice inexpensive solution for his speakers.
That will work well, not heard anything bad about the Dayton,

I just think it is weird that a speaker touted to be for beginners is 4 ohms--just bad engineering IMHO. Works great for marketing, you can use the sensitivity rating at 2.83V into a 4 ohm speaker so it won't look so bad--and hide the 3dB loss in efficiency against true 85dB efficient 8 ohm speakers at best buy--sounds the same efficiency!

A friend of mine has a nephew that received an AVR for Christmas--now the single guy has surround fever. I was asked if his rather basic AVR would have any issues with the Pioneer AJ 6 ohm speakers--checked them, recalculated the specs at around 84dB and noted the 6 ohms. He is single so I am assuming he might actually want some SPL on occasion. Told him to get the Fluance SX6 8 ohm speakers, 89dB efficient and 5" woofers. Cost a little more, they are larger but much higher efficiency, better bass response and true 8 ohm impedance will let his AVR run as cool as possible.

Once he realized the AJ Pioneers would require 3 times the power of the Fluance speakers, then it sunk in. He just wants a basic multi-channel system, nothing too wild but prefers to run it for many years and be done with it.

Or so he thinks... hope it works for him out of the box and he is content. If not, then the RP160 might be in his future and I'll book him on the flight down the rabbit hole.
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post #42 of 50 Old 01-14-2017, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
That will work well, not heard anything bad about the Dayton,

I just think it is weird that a speaker touted to be for beginners is 4 ohms--just bad engineering IMHO. Works great for marketing, you can use the sensitivity rating at 2.83V into a 4 ohm speaker so it won't look so bad--and hide the 3dB loss in efficiency against true 85dB efficient 8 ohm speakers at best buy--sounds the same efficiency!

A friend of mine has a nephew that received an AVR for Christmas--now the single guy has surround fever. I was asked if his rather basic AVR would have any issues with the Pioneer AJ 6 ohm speakers--checked them, recalculated the specs at around 84dB and noted the 6 ohms. He is single so I am assuming he might actually want some SPL on occasion. Told him to get the Fluance SX6 8 ohm speakers, 89dB efficient and 5" woofers. Cost a little more, they are larger but much higher efficiency, better bass response and true 8 ohm impedance will let his AVR run as cool as possible.

Once he realized the AJ Pioneers would require 3 times the power of the Fluance speakers, then it sunk in. He just wants a basic multi-channel system, nothing too wild but prefers to run it for many years and be done with it.

Or so he thinks... hope it works for him out of the box and he is content. If not, then the RP160 might be in his future and I'll book him on the flight down the rabbit hole.
I don't know if I'd say the Uni-Fis are for beginners, they're affordably priced, but they're also just incredibly well designed speakers that punch way above their price point.

I like that they're 4ohm impedance - it means that if I pair them with an amp capable of driving 4ohms I effectively get twice (or near to it) the output that I would compared to an 8ohm speaker.
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post #43 of 50 Old 02-23-2017, 05:16 PM
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hey all - new to the forum and have enjoyed reading these posts.

i just bought some Elac UB5s. For an amp, I got a Marantz PM6005 on sale. After reading this I am concerned it will not have enough power for the Elacs?

"With 8-ohm speakers, the PM6005 is rated at 45 watts per channel; with 4-ohm speakers, it is rated at 60 watts per channel."

Did I make a mistake?!
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post #44 of 50 Old 02-24-2017, 10:01 AM
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hey all - new to the forum and have enjoyed reading these posts.

i just bought some Elac UB5s. For an amp, I got a Marantz PM6005 on sale. After reading this I am concerned it will not have enough power for the Elacs?

"With 8-ohm speakers, the PM6005 is rated at 45 watts per channel; with 4-ohm speakers, it is rated at 60 watts per channel."

Did I make a mistake?!
Probably not.

Just monitor the heat of the AVR and if it seems to bet very hot there could be a problem but I'm guessing you will be fine.

My AVR runs 10 degrees above ambient air temperature using a laser thermometer.

If I lower the crossovers from 80hz to 60hz for my fronts it gets 20 degrees above ambient which is still not hot at all.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #45 of 50 Old 02-24-2017, 11:41 AM
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Thanks for the response. I am using the Marantz PM6005 to replace a Denon AVR-2308CI. I assumed the Denon wouldn't be adequate since it doesn't have a 4-ohm rating, but it does push more watts to 8 ohms than the Marantz. (100 x 7 over 8 ohm)

Obviously I can and will test the Denon before opening the Marantz - but does anyone have thoughts on using the Denon? Could it actually be a better "fit" for the Elac UB5s?

If it matters, the speakers and amp are being used solely to play records from my turntable (i.e. no TV or computer or other sources).
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post #46 of 50 Old 02-25-2017, 08:59 AM
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Thanks for the response. I am using the Marantz PM6005 to replace a Denon AVR-2308CI. I assumed the Denon wouldn't be adequate since it doesn't have a 4-ohm rating, but it does push more watts to 8 ohms than the Marantz. (100 x 7 over 8 ohm)

Obviously I can and will test the Denon before opening the Marantz - but does anyone have thoughts on using the Denon? Could it actually be a better "fit" for the Elac UB5s?

If it matters, the speakers and amp are being used solely to play records from my turntable (i.e. no TV or computer or other sources).
I'm sure the Denon would be fine as well.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #47 of 50 Old 02-25-2017, 10:03 AM
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The Denon should be fine

The difference between the two might show up with running really high outputs for a long period of time. Run the Denon for a few hours at levels slightly higher than "normal" and put your hand on the thing to check for heat. If the thing shuts down and goes into protect mode, that is not a good sign or if the thing cooks your hand--then time to upgrade.

Make sure your AVR/amp has plenty of cooling and it should be fine as long as not attempting rock concert levels. Enjoy your new speakers.
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post #48 of 50 Old 05-28-2020, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
But an 85 dB sensitivity rating is the norm for 2-way speakers with a 5-1/4 driver. Since I select speakers based upon the sound qualities that I’m looking for, I tend to worry about sensitivity ratings in relationship to my gear already on hand (or what I’m willing to buy) and the volume levels I want to attain. If I find a speaker with a higher sensitivity rating and don’t like the sound. What’s the point? And for whatever reason (I don’t have a clue as to why), the speakers I’m sonically attracted to and have purchased happen to have fairly low sensitivity. I wonder if there is a pill for that .
With a minimum of 80 watts per channel, my Elac UB5's sound very good. with a 120 wpc amp, even better at any volume.
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post #49 of 50 Old 05-29-2020, 12:33 PM
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With a minimum of 80 watts per channel, my Elac UB5's sound very good. with a 120 wpc amp, even better at any volume.

Old thread, but yes. The more power you give them, the better they sound as they come more alive dynamically with a beefier amp.

Even at low volumes this is noticeable. It's not always about sounding better at higher volumes, especially with a speaker like this.
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post #50 of 50 Old 05-30-2020, 06:27 AM
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Rockin a $299 Pioneer AVR with the center and two bookshelves and all go for me. Even with gave bipole surrounds and Atmos on ceiling
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