Selecting My 7.1/7.2 Speaker Setup; Paradigm, Aperion, or Def Tech - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By Ellebob
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 11 Old 09-02-2016, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Selecting My 7.1/7.2 Speaker Setup; Paradigm, Aperion, or Def Tech

I'm at the point of choosing the sound for my media room and I wanted to solicit some feedback from audioholics such as yourselves. I'll try to explain some of my choices in this post to give you an idea of where I'm coming from, which will hopefully save a few questions/replies. I still welcome criticism so I can learn from my faults (including would be faults if one of my suggestions is way off), but try not to take it to the point where I won't enjoy my setup as is or as it will be. The purpose of my media room is primarily for movies/sports, occasionally TV, and rarely for music.

I have a cookie cutter new single family (detached) home construction build with a 7.1 prewire dedicated media room including an HDMI/power prewire in the ceiling for a projector (the audio connection panel is off to the side, which would allow me to run an extra sub in that corner to make this a 7.2 setup if really necessary). I emphasize cookie cutter because I was limited in my audio/video options due to the A/V company's preselected catalog that was paired with the builder. I feel like I did the best I could to give myself the opportunity to build a decent media room with the limited options and time to research these options. I elected to go with the build out of the media room through the builder because I've seen too many friends/homes that never actually make it to building out the basement and the convenience of having the media room as close to turnkey as possible was the best decision for me given my procrastination and issues with follow through on personal projects.

See the attachment for a visual of my setup.

The room: 16' deep by 18' wide by 8' tall with a carpet flooring (cement underneath), no windows, and I plan to use a dark navy paint (flat). I will use a wall mounted screen on the front wall (18' wall of the room).

Seating: I will have an 'L' shaped sectional that follows the back wall and comes back up the side wall. At the end of the day I would like to have a room that's enjoyable for many as opposed to optimized for just me.

The receiver: Denon AVR-3313ci. I purchased this about 3.5 years ago for the primary reason that it allowed me to have independent HDMI inputs with dual independent HDMI outputs. Sports is a big component to my usage of my media room and this allowed me to play two feeds at once with audio switching. The secondary reason is that I thought it would be future proof as a 4k HDMI passthrough (limited to 1.4a) and 7.2 capable receiver pushing 125W to each channel. Unfortunately, I realize that Atmos is here and now, which my receiver doesn't support. My decision for this room was to stick with the traditional 7 speaker setup (or at least what I derived to be a suitable 7 speaker setup from various design sources including the Denon manual for this receiver and posts on this forum).

The projector: TBD between the Epson 5030UB and the Sony VPL-HW45ES (I can get either of these for $2,000 from a dealer, for the price I'm leaning towards the Sony since it's a 2016 model). I intend to ceiling mount the projector approximately 13' deep, which will provide roughly a 104" screen projection (both projectors were calculated to fit these dimensions using Projector Central). My last projector was the 5020UB and I loved it. I originally chose the 5020UB projector because of the side-by-side dual output capability (see my comment about my receiver selection). I've since discovered and purchased a piece of media equipment that allows me to take 4 HDMI inputs and combine them into a quad-view HDMI 1.4a output (including audio and on-the-fly switching capabilities), so I no longer have the split screen requirement. I need to figure out this selection as well, but for the purposes of this post I'd like to keep it to feedback on audio.

The audio prewire selections: center = 2.5' high (intended to be mounted on a stand), front L/R = floor height (intended to be floor standing speakers) positioned outside of the calculated screen width, side L/R = 5.5' high and 3.5' from the back wall, rear L/R = 5.5' high and 3.5' from the side wall, subwoofer 1 = front left to the outside of the front L speaker (with a power outlet). The panel will be in the front left corner on the side wall, which would allow me to run a subwoofer 2 to the front right, if necessary (power outlet already exists).

Now that I've provided the description of my setup I can move onto the topic at hand, what speaker selections should I use for my room? I've made it out to two studio rooms so far, each of which really only pushed a single selection in their setups. The first was a configuration from the Paradigm Prestige series; I thought these were the best sounding speakers I had ever heard at the time (this was also my first stop so I probably wasn't used to a proper setup with great sound), but they would be at the VERY top of my price range. The second was a configuration with Definitive Technology; I thought these were great sounding speakers, but I'm skeptical of the tower with the built in subwoofer concept; I heard these next to a B&W setup and thought the Def Tech sounded better. A third option I was considering based on a colleague's input (who is a well-versed audiophile from what I can tell) was to consider some internet direct companies, specifically Aperion and their Verus II Grand Tower.

Paradigm is currently running a promotion through the end of September where you get the accompanying center channel speaker free with the purchase of a pair of their Prestige towers.

I can currently get the Definitive Technology package for 20% off from a dealer.

My initial thought is to put most of my money into the LCR and sub(s) and buy-up on the surrounds later, if necessary. For aesthetics and space requirements I would prefer in-walls for my surround speakers if possible. I'm also under the assumption that I should at a minimum buy speakers from the same manufacturer for audio matching purposes (from what I've read), if not the same series. I'm comfortable with the pricing of the Definitive Technology configuration, but I'm trying to determine if the Paradigm or Aperion configuration will make a big enough difference to fork up the extra cash. Suggestions are welcome.

The configurations I've put together are the following:

1)
Paradigm configuration: $5,520 + cost of sub
Front L&R: Prestige 85F tower $2,000 x (2) = $4,000 (I could bump this down to the 75Fs if the 85Fs are too big for my room and save $1,000 at the same time)
Center: Prestige 55C $1,700 x (1) = Free during September sale (this changes to the 45C with the purchase of the 75Fs)
Side L&R: CI Pro P65-IW in-wall $380 x (2) = $760 (note this is from the Pro series)
Rear L&R: CI Pro P65-IW in-wall $380 x (2) = $760 (note this is from the Pro series)
Subwoofer: TBD


2)
Aperion configuration: $4,350 + cost of sub
Front L&R: Verus II Grand tower $1,160 x (2) = $2,320
Center: Verus II Grand Center $650 x (1) = $650
Side L&R: Verus on-wall Surround Dipole Bipole $700/pair = $700
Rear L&R: Verus on-wall Surround Dipole Bipole $700/pair = $700
Subwoofer: TBD


3)
Definitive Technology configuration: $3,600 total
Front L&R: BP9060 tower discounted to $880 x (2) = $1,760
Center: CS9040 discounted to $400 x (1) = $400
Side L&R: DI 5.5BPS in-wall bipolar discounted to $360 x (2) = $720 (note this is from a different series)
Rear L&R: DI 5.5BPS in-wall bipolar discounted to $360 x (2) = $720 (note this is from a different series)
Subwoofer: 10" woofer included in each tower = $0


I'm open to suggestions for the subwoofer if I go with the Paradigm or Aperion configuration, my target range was ~$1,000. From what I've read this can be purchased independent of the speakers and it's often wise to do so. Since my room doesn't have the proper sound treatment I don't need it to blow me and the house away, but it's still a detached single family home so I don't have to worry about neighbors. My first inclination is to grab something from SVS.

I realize that this is a lot to digest so thanks in advance for those who decide to contribute to my post.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf media_room_layout.pdf (797.9 KB, 64 views)
tanchelli is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 Old 09-02-2016, 06:08 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Kini62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 7,936
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2684 Post(s)
Liked: 2472
Sounds like it's going to be a nice room.

Just make sure the sectional is NOT against the back wall. Try to keep at least 3' of space. If the sectional has to go against the back wall, skip the rear back surrounds.

As for speakers, this from PSA, front 3 and two subs is $4699 and will give you real theater sound. They're high efficiency and have the dynamics for a true theater experience.

The subs are a pair of 15" sealed subs. Your room is only 2300 cubic feet so you should be able to get a fair amount of room gain so you'll have good response at least into the upper teens (hz). Going ported will get you more output in the upper teens to mid 20s.

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/colle...ant=1173362168

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/produ...ant=6799544068

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/mtm-210c

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Onkyo RZ820
Roku Ultra, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Quattron
Kini62 is offline  
post #3 of 11 Old 09-04-2016, 10:28 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Thanks for the recommendation on the PSA subs, the product comparison on their website is a nice reference too.

Any feedback on the 3 configurations I proposed for the speakers? Any issues with speaker matching or are any of the selections too much or too little for my space?
tanchelli is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 11 Old 09-05-2016, 08:38 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 16,705
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2668 Post(s)
Liked: 3015
I am also skeptical of the built in subwoofer concept with the Def Techs. Their subs are not a substitute for good HT subs (such as the PSA subs), and then good HT subs tend to negate much of the benefit of their built in subs. The Def Tech bipolars are also a bit finicky on placement (read up on this) in order for the rear directed drivers to work correctly.

Here is an interesting read on the Versus Grand Center where the OP eventually ended up with Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers and Horizon center after doing in home comparisons of some center channels: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...rus-grand.html

Have you considered an acoustically transparent screen? Then the center channel could be positioned behind it.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
Living room HT: Energy RC-50, Ascend Sierra Horizon w/RAAL, Ascend Sierra 1, PSB Imagine XA | PSA V1500 and CHT SS 18.1 | Denon X4200W | modified Dayton SA1000
Other rooms: CBM-170 SE | SVS SB-1000 | Audio-GD NFB-11 | Parasound Zamp | JBL LSR305
Headphone & Portable AKG K7XX | HE-400i | NAD HP50 | Sony MDR-1A | Soundmagic E50 & E80 | X5ii | DX50 | E12
cel4145 is offline  
post #5 of 11 Old 09-05-2016, 08:58 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 4,366
Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1887 Post(s)
Liked: 1084
One of the advantages of a speaker/ sub system is that the best placement in the room for the mid and high frequencies is rarely the best placement for the bass frequencies. Being able to move the subwoofer to find the best placement is important. Having subs inside speakers or speakers that can go very low is only needed if there is no sub and then it would not be ideal for bass frequency placement.
cel4145 likes this.
Ellebob is offline  
post #6 of 11 Old 09-05-2016, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 0
I'm inclined to rule out Def Tech based on additional reading. Once I get to making a purchase and testing the equipment, if nothing blows me away for the price, I may pull a 180 and retract this statement, but I don't think that will be the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post
Here is an interesting read on the Versus Grand Center where the OP eventually ended up with Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers and Horizon center after doing in home comparisons of some center channels: [link removed due to posting restrictions associated with my noob status]

Have you considered an acoustically transparent screen? Then the center channel could be positioned behind it.
That was a good read indeed. It sounds like the OP actually preferred the Verus Grand Tower for home theater applications, which would be one my two primary use cases. Knowing that Aperion offers two-way shipping I think I should definitely sit in front of them before making a final decision. I'll have to see if my local Paradigm dealer will let me try the Prestige speakers without a restocking fee, if necessary. Ascend doesn't offer the free return shipping, so I'll have to weigh that con versus missing out on the perfect speaker configuration. As a side comment, I feel like their website could use an overhaul, it feels like my first geocities webpage.

I had not considered an acoustically transparent screen, I had simply planned on using a toe-in for the floor standing speakers and a stand for the center. Knowing that I'm okay with the physical presence of floor-standing LCRs is there a reason to take this approach?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
One of the advantages of a speaker/ sub system is that the best placement in the room for the mid and high frequencies is rarely the best placement for the bass frequencies. Being able to move the subwoofer to find the best placement is important. Having subs inside speakers or speakers that can go very low is only needed if there is no sub and then it would not be ideal for bass frequency placement.
I'm intrigued by the PSA S1500 referenced earlier by @Kini62 . I will likely order two of both the PSA S1500 and the SVS SB-2000. SVS offers free returns, so if the in-home product comparison by PSA holds up to its metrics then this approach shouldn't cost me anything extra... besides the increased cost of the actual equipment that is.
tanchelli is offline  
post #7 of 11 Old 09-06-2016, 07:39 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 16,705
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2668 Post(s)
Liked: 3015
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanchelli View Post
I'm intrigued by the PSA S1500 referenced earlier by @Kini62 . I will likely order two of both the PSA S1500 and the SVS SB-2000. SVS offers free returns, so if the in-home product comparison by PSA holds up to its metrics then this approach shouldn't cost me anything extra... besides the increased cost of the actual equipment that is.
The S1500 will be significantly more powerful. There are independent, 3rd party measurements of the PSA XS15-SE and the SB12-NSD, and there is a significant difference. Of course, both of these subs were upgraded a bit with the newer versions, but even with the improvements cited by SVS for the SB-2000, it would not have as much SPL as the PSA XS15-SE. It's the difference of larger driver, larger enclosure.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
Living room HT: Energy RC-50, Ascend Sierra Horizon w/RAAL, Ascend Sierra 1, PSB Imagine XA | PSA V1500 and CHT SS 18.1 | Denon X4200W | modified Dayton SA1000
Other rooms: CBM-170 SE | SVS SB-1000 | Audio-GD NFB-11 | Parasound Zamp | JBL LSR305
Headphone & Portable AKG K7XX | HE-400i | NAD HP50 | Sony MDR-1A | Soundmagic E50 & E80 | X5ii | DX50 | E12
cel4145 is offline  
post #8 of 11 Old 09-06-2016, 12:11 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gajCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 18,417
Mentioned: 214 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8585 Post(s)
Liked: 5784
Unlike the PSA's those Aperion speakers look fantastic and seem to have excellent bang for buck potential.

I'd call them and just order the towers to test and if you like them buy this discounted complete system BUT ask them if they can upgrade the 10D sub to the 12D sub as it plays significantly lower...though not as low as other subs in that price range it is low enough.

https://www.aperionaudio.com/home-th...er-surround-hd

That would be around $5,100 including the sub.

Alternately you could ask them the system price without the sub and see if they'd knock $700 off the package price and then buy a Rhythmik, HSU or SVS sub at the $700 price point.

In a large room a ported sub would be the way to go.

Geoff A. J., California
gajCA is offline  
post #9 of 11 Old 09-06-2016, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post
The S1500 will be significantly more powerful. [link removed due to posting requirements for my noob status] There are independent, 3rd party measurements of the PSA XS15-SE and the SB12-NSD, and there is a significant difference. Of course, both of these subs were upgraded a bit with the newer versions, but even with the improvements cited by SVS for the SB-2000, it would not have as much SPL as the PSA XS15-SE. It's the difference of larger driver, larger enclosure.
Thanks for the comparison reference. Do you think I'm at the point of going too big with the PSA S1500? Same question for the PSA V1500 if I go ported as @gajCA mentioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
In a large room a ported sub would be the way to go.
Are you implying that I have a large room based on the design I provided? I assumed that a ported sub would be too much for the size of my room, just based on casual reading.
tanchelli is offline  
post #10 of 11 Old 09-06-2016, 02:53 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gajCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 18,417
Mentioned: 214 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8585 Post(s)
Liked: 5784
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanchelli View Post
T



Are you implying that I have a large room based on the design I provided? I assumed that a ported sub would be too much for the size of my room, just based on casual reading.
I prefer sealed subs myself and my room is not that much smaller than yours so, yes, a sealed sub rated down to 20hz or so would likely work quite well and it would have a smaller footprint as a bonus.

Mind you my 15" sealed sub has a 1250 watt amp BUT on the rear of the sub it is at less than 20% gain and on the AVR it is -10db so it is hardly straining.

Reaches down below 15hz not that you really need that much extension.

Geoff A. J., California
gajCA is offline  
post #11 of 11 Old 09-06-2016, 03:33 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 16,705
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2668 Post(s)
Liked: 3015
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanchelli View Post
Thanks for the comparison reference. Do you think I'm at the point of going too big with the PSA S1500? Same question for the PSA V1500 if I go ported as @gajCA mentioned..
Sealed subs have more of a gradual rolloff. In a smaller room like yours, the PSA S1500 should give you more usable output at deeper bass extension levels. And it's not going to be too powerful for the room, any more than a more powerful amplifier for speakers would be. You just won't have it turned up as loud.

Given the size of your room, the slightly less powerful 15V might be indistinguishable from the V1500.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
Living room HT: Energy RC-50, Ascend Sierra Horizon w/RAAL, Ascend Sierra 1, PSB Imagine XA | PSA V1500 and CHT SS 18.1 | Denon X4200W | modified Dayton SA1000
Other rooms: CBM-170 SE | SVS SB-1000 | Audio-GD NFB-11 | Parasound Zamp | JBL LSR305
Headphone & Portable AKG K7XX | HE-400i | NAD HP50 | Sony MDR-1A | Soundmagic E50 & E80 | X5ii | DX50 | E12
cel4145 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Tags
aperion , def tech , Paradigm , speaker , speaker advice

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off