NEAPOLITAN ICE CREAM: Q-Acoustics vs SVS Prime vs Wharfedale Diamond - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 169 Old 05-07-2017, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by bantamug View Post
Yes, for me, if was a choice of C20s + sub vs S1s alone, then definitely S1s.

They still seem to benefit from a sub for some music (and HT use) but as I mentioned in my reply to Zorba - just as with the C20s, their size belies their abilities. It really is freakish to hear such a big sound coming out of a tiny package. I'm actually going to give the basic L12 Rythmik sub a try - I'm impressed by what the Ascend Acoustics folks have done with the S1, and I'm inclined to give weight to their recommendations.

As an aside, I'd still highly recommend the C20s to almost anyone - apart from the great sound, the big advantage I see in them is smart looks and a compact package. The S1s sound great but do look a little goofy mounted on my wall. But if the extra size and ~$300 aren't an issue, the S1s are well worth it.
If I was buying a sub today it would be a Rhythmik, without question.

But for music even an excellent $299 sub like this one would be great; beautifully flat frequency response down to a "perfect for music" 27hs.

https://emotiva.com/products/subwoofers/basx-s10

But I've discovered the joys of using two subs for music and would likely spend $398 for two of these that also play flat and down to 28hz nice and flat, (Piano plays down to 28hz).

https://emotiva.com/products/subwoofers/basx-s8

I have found that for music two subs are more than twice as good as just one.

With one lowly Yamaha SW012, (plays down to 28hz in my room but definitely not with super flat frequency response), I could localize the sub, with two, the nice even bass comes from "everywhere/nowhere" even though I have them located in a terrible position on each end of my couch.

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post #152 of 169 Old 05-07-2017, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
If I was buying a sub today it would be a Rhythmik, without question.

But for music even an excellent $299 sub like this one would be great; beautifully flat frequency response down to a "perfect for music" 27hs.

https://emotiva.com/products/subwoofers/basx-s10

But I've discovered the joys of using two subs for music and would likely spend $398 for two of these that also play flat and down to 28hz nice and flat, (Piano plays down to 28hz).

https://emotiva.com/products/subwoofers/basx-s8

I have found that for music two subs are more than twice as good as just one.

With one lowly Yamaha SW012, (plays down to 28hz in my room but definitely not with super flat frequency response), I could localize the sub, with two, the nice even bass comes from "everywhere/nowhere" even though I have them located in a terrible position on each end of my couch.
Interesting. Still learning about subs for music. Dual subs certainly seem to have their advantages but I'm out of family friendly options for placement so may stick with a single 12 inch Rhythmik. Having said that, I've never been a fan of that armchair in the corner of the room....
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post #153 of 169 Old 05-07-2017, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bantamug View Post
Interesting. Still learning about subs for music. Dual subs certainly seem to have their advantages but I'm out of family friendly options for placement so may stick with a single 12 inch Rhythmik. Having said that, I've never been a fan of that armchair in the corner of the room....
Had they not repaired the amp on my Velodyne DD15, (it's worked for one whole evening after the second repair), I'd be getting a Rhythmik F12G for my main Home Theater room as the DD15 is massive and really is overkill as I only use 10% of its gain on the rear.
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post #154 of 169 Old 05-07-2017, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
ah, if you have a kid to worry about, I would look at the Ascend 340SE with the OEM stands which are sand-fillable to +100lbs...they'd be virtually bulletproof plus the drivers would be safely 26" above the ground, safe from little hands. And you might be happy with the Ascend's clarity and room-filling sensitivity...albeit the cabinets are not as attractive as the Klipsch, but it saves you a couple hundred bucks over the RP towers.

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages...m/cmt340m.html
$680 shipped with OEM stands.
Interesting. I have the S1s wall-mounted now so I think I'm good, but if I ever want to put them on stands, looks like those will also be compatible.
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post #155 of 169 Old 05-07-2017, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bantamug View Post
Interesting. I have the S1s wall-mounted now so I think I'm good, but if I ever want to put them on stands, looks like those will also be compatible.
Oh, if you already have them wall-mounted then you're all set!
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #156 of 169 Old 05-07-2017, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by bantamug View Post
Interesting. I have the S1s wall-mounted now so I think I'm good, but if I ever want to put them on stands, looks like those will also be compatible.
Interesting as wall mounting a rear firing speaker running full range doesn't sound like a great idea.

Are you using port plugs or is their some clearance behind the speakers?

Are they on shelves toed in perhaps?

Maybe a picture would help me visualize your setup.
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post #157 of 169 Old 05-07-2017, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Interesting as wall mounting a rear firing speaker running full range doesn't sound like a great idea.

Are you using port plugs or is their some clearance behind the speakers?

Are they on shelves toed in perhaps?

Maybe a picture would help me visualize your setup.
Somewhere I heard a rule of thumb that the minimum distance from the wall to a rear ported speaker is the diameter of the rear port. I think the reality has to do with the design of the speaker itself, and the preferences of the listener. Some speaker run well ported or plugged, and others just sound better with the ports open.

It's nice to hear there may be another option for those looking for quality, wall-mounted solutions.
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post #158 of 169 Old 05-07-2017, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Interesting as wall mounting a rear firing speaker running full range doesn't sound like a great idea.

Are you using port plugs or is their some clearance behind the speakers?

Are they on shelves toed in perhaps?

Maybe a picture would help me visualize your setup.
I wouldn't ordinarily stick a rear ported speaker near to the wall, but these guys are doing dual-duty in my HT room so need to compromise a little!

Can't seem to take a decent picture of the whole setup in low light here but attached is what the S1 looks like mounted to the wall on a "Pinpoint AM41" side-clamping wall mount (with some Macgyvered bolt and cable tie action for peace of mind).

The port is 5-6 inches from the wall. I had them temporarily set up on some heavy home made stands and I don't really hear a difference like this with or without the subwoofer involved. Took a few tries to get the mounting angles right to get a nice stereo image but I've got them sounding as good as they do on dedicated stands.

I had the C20s set up like this for a while (as well as on stands) - I tried the port plugs that came with them and strongly preferred the sound without them. I can't really imagine adding plugs to the S1s would improve the sound, particularly if I end up with a nicer sub that can do more of the heavy lifting.
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post #159 of 169 Old 05-07-2017, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Leon O View Post
Somewhere I heard a rule of thumb that the minimum distance from the wall to a rear ported speaker is the diameter of the rear port. I think the reality has to do with the design of the speaker itself, and the preferences of the listener. Some speaker run well ported or plugged, and others just sound better with the ports open.

It's nice to hear there may be another option for those looking for quality, wall-mounted solutions.
Interesting, I hadn't heard that before. The rear ports on these things are about 2 inches across and they're at least 2-3x that away from the wall. I haven't heard a difference between this setup and a regular stand-mount setup in a few days of listening. Although I haven't really cranked them up with something super-bassy but that's not really a regular use case for me so not too worried about how they perform!

And yes, nice that these things can be wall mounted. I'm using a "Pinpoint AM41" mount which is rated for 50lbs with the included screws assuming they're mounted into a wall stud. I'm mounting them with 3/16" Tapcons into brick so expect they'd hold quite a lot more than that. They look a little goofy (huge) compared to the little HT speakers that were there before them but I've gotten over it.
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post #160 of 169 Old 05-08-2017, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by bantamug View Post
I wouldn't ordinarily stick a rear ported speaker near to the wall, but these guys are doing dual-duty in my HT room so need to compromise a little!

Can't seem to take a decent picture of the whole setup in low light here but attached is what the S1 looks like mounted to the wall on a "Pinpoint AM41" side-clamping wall mount (with some Macgyvered bolt and cable tie action for peace of mind).

The port is 5-6 inches from the wall. I had them temporarily set up on some heavy home made stands and I don't really hear a difference like this with or without the subwoofer involved. Took a few tries to get the mounting angles right to get a nice stereo image but I've got them sounding as good as they do on dedicated stands.

I had the C20s set up like this for a while (as well as on stands) - I tried the port plugs that came with them and strongly preferred the sound without them. I can't really imagine adding plugs to the S1s would improve the sound, particularly if I end up with a nicer sub that can do more of the heavy lifting.
Ah, that looks fine to me.

My friend who has the C20s has them inside a large built in set of "bookshelves" that are ABOVE his fridge in his kitchen/den area.

Can't think of a worse location for a set of speakers, (thought each speaker is in a cavity about 3 feet wide, 2 feet tall and 2 feet deep so not really a "bookshelf").

They sound far better than they should located there and benefited from the port plugs.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #161 of 169 Old 05-09-2017, 02:59 PM
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AverageJoseph, I'm also dreaming about my mid-life purchase. "I lost my license so now I don't drive" - that sort of puts the Shelby Mustang out of contention as the solution for my mid-life crisis. I understand the urge and enjoyment of upgrading music systems. I'm glad to hear that in addition to your thorough reading of reviews you understand the need to audition speakers to see what "moves you." At the mid-life stage there are a number of factors that can contribute to your own preferences. In my case, a decade of competition quality car audio and long commutes (followed by another decade of tinnitus), leads me to think that I need somewhat brighter speakers in order for me to appreciate the details in music tracks. Translated that means my slightly worn ears are already forgiving to poorly recorded tracks, so I don't need speakers to be extra forgiving. If you are in a similar situation, you may need to audition so you can recalibrate your tastes from a few decades ago.

Since soundstage is important to you, you might want to check out the "K" series by Epos. They are a bit pricier than the quality speakers that have been discussed here, but I have seen demos at 50% off. I remember K1s as providing a deep soundstage with well-defined imaging. They also have that "fun" factor that doesn't show in specs and charts - sort of like the Wharfedale Diamonds. I believe the K series is Epos's first without an aluminum dome tweeter. It's been I while since I auditioned them, but as I recall the tweeter's voicing may offer a compromise for who enjoy metal domes, but want something slightly less aggressive. From that demo (mostly compared to Focus Chorus series). Although they are not for everyone, these Epos have remained near the top of my B&M wish list since I heard them.

I have owned the Wharfedale Diamond 10.1s. There is a reason that people rave about them. They are truly "fun." If it were not for the wear & tear on my ears and my current desire for somewhat brighter speakers, I would still own them. Recently, "demo" pairs of 10.1s have been an exceptional value around the $200 mark. I thought the 10.1s were more than sufficient in the 2.0 format. However, in my room they really shined when the crossover was set to 60hz. I think I lost some of the "fun" upper bass when I set the crossover to 80hz.

Enjoy the adventure!

Zorba - thanks for your effort you put into your reviews. If you ever get the chance to listen to the K1s, it would be great to hear your opinion.
Thanks for the shoutout Leon.
I did audition the EmpTek and the QA 3020, I preferred the QA's so I kept them.
Lo and behold I got a chance to buy some used Sierra 1's, man I have fell in love with them, not sure what "hot" means but they are very easy to listen to.
The 3020's will get assigned to surround duty when I get to it, but I am quite happy to listen in stereo mode.

Thanks Zorba for your advice and efforts.
I find it interesting that the Sierra 1's are getting mentioned here.
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post #162 of 169 Old 05-10-2017, 10:16 AM
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Thanks for the shoutout Leon.
I did audition the EmpTek and the QA 3020, I preferred the QA's so I kept them.
Lo and behold I got a chance to buy some used Sierra 1's, man I have fell in love with them, not sure what "hot" means but they are very easy to listen to.
The 3020's will get assigned to surround duty when I get to it, but I am quite happy to listen in stereo mode.

Thanks Zorba for your advice and efforts.
I find it interesting that the Sierra 1's are getting mentioned here.
I think Q Acoustics should come out with a larger bookshelf, perhaps with a 6.5 main driver in the $750 range but as a UK company I can see why they tend to lean towards the smaller end of the scale for bookshelves and towers.

Clearly they should make a "real" Home Theater subwoofer that extends into the low 20hz range.

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post #163 of 169 Old 05-10-2017, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I think Q Acoustics should come out with a larger bookshelf, perhaps with a 6.5 main driver in the $750 range but as a UK company I can see why they tend to lean towards the smaller end of the scale for bookshelves and towers.

Clearly they should make a "real" Home Theater subwoofer that extends into the low 20hz range.
I would venture to guess that QA is consciously marketing itself towards the high-WAF-but-still-decent-sounding market segment, as reflected in their design choices for both the subwoofer and center speakers. I'd imagine that's where they're getting most of their sales from, since there's already too many well established competitors in the "low-WAF-but-great-sounding" segment.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #164 of 169 Old 05-10-2017, 12:14 PM
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I would venture to guess that QA is consciously marketing itself towards the high-WAF-but-still-decent-sounding market segment, as reflected in their design choices for both the subwoofer and center speakers. I'd imagine that's where they're getting most of their sales from, since there's already too many well established competitors in the "low-WAF-but-great-sounding" segment.
Well, their $4000/pair flagship floor standers are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind schedule.

https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/concept500speakers

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post #165 of 169 Old 12-14-2017, 08:04 PM
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[/QUOTE]I can now confidently recommend getting 3 of them as LCR, especially for anyone on a budget. $337 shipped for a quality LCR that can handle both HT and music equally well (with a sub of course), PLUS has zero WAF problems, is pretty amazing![/QUOTE]

Rats, looks like I got to this thread a bit late. Looks like the R5Bi is no longer for sale- esp. at $337!!

(Nice work on the reviews @zorba )
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post #166 of 169 Old 12-14-2017, 08:30 PM
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OMFG the 6.5" kef q300's are only $349 RFNOW

Or go with kef q100's and a sub

Or go with N.P.T. ice cream I.d.g.Af
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post #167 of 169 Old 12-14-2017, 08:44 PM
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OMFG the 6.5" kef q300's are only $349 RFNOW

Or go with kef q100's and a sub

Or go with N.P.T. ice cream I.d.g.Af
Depends on your listening style! (Longtime Kef owner: Ref 103/4s, Ref 201, IQ9s, IQ3s, Eggs, and currently listening to passive LS50s)

Buy where you can return 'em if they aren't the ONES!

As for me, I am looking for LCR 80% HT/20% mix.
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post #168 of 169 Old 12-14-2017, 08:53 PM
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Yeah true can't return KEF's from direct without a return ship hit.

Still, I ab'd q100's (5" driver i think) vs. jbl 230 (6.5") and it was a total tossup, aside from bass obviously. I would totally roll the dice on q300's even if it were final decision. Unfortunately I've since found out im a bass rube audiophillic noob. Can get by with entry level speakers and clean deep effortless cheap DIY bass and I'm happy not a/bing every speaker I can max my CC with auditioning not knowing what I'm hearing anyway. Bass is the equalizer for me. Anyway hate "clarity" "detail" speakers, the more of that the more it discomforts my ears. #bassnoob
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post #169 of 169 Old 12-27-2017, 09:55 PM
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NICE!



It would have been nice to see the Bic FH-6 LCR`s used as more than a center.........



I have 7 of them in a 5.1.2 set up and would like to hear a experts opinion on them........in the HT role IMHO they are outstanding.



But alas, I have heard very few "Real" speakers......

Link to Stereo Integrity SI HT 18 sub build......https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-pedestal.html
Speakers and subs for sale...https://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...kers-subs.html
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