Would you be able to hear any difference in sound? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 15Likes
  • 1 Post By pase22
  • 1 Post By JonfromCB
  • 1 Post By eljaycanuck
  • 8 Post By Gooddoc
  • 2 Post By Bill Fitzmaurice
  • 1 Post By mtrot
  • 1 Post By 1201
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 17 Old 01-30-2017, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jomartz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Question Would you be able to hear any difference in sound?

If the only thing you change in any given sound system are the cables, Would you be able to hear any difference in sound?

Philharmonic Audio Affordable Accuracy Monitors as Main speakers
Philharmonic Audio Affordable Accuracy Center Channel
NHT SuperZero 2.1 Mini Monitors as Surround Speakers (4)
Dayton Audio Sub-1000 10" Subwoofers (2)
Marantz SR5013 Receiver + Sony XBR65X750D 65" 4K TV + Mac Mini + Apple TV 4K + PS4
jomartz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 Old 01-30-2017, 07:05 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
pase22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Montreal,Canada
Posts: 6,667
Mentioned: 78 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3014 Post(s)
Liked: 2503
Quote:
Originally Posted by jomartz View Post
If the only thing you change in any given sound system are the cables, Would you be able to hear any difference in sound?
No!
jomartz likes this.

Kef Q100 FL/FR,SL/SR, Q200C, SVS SB-2000, Denon AVR-X3400H, , Panasonic 50" Plasma, Xbox One.
Bedroom: JBL Loft 50 , Loft 20, Bic F-12, Denon AVR-S710W, PS3, 32" Insigna LED.
pase22 is online now  
post #3 of 17 Old 01-30-2017, 09:11 AM
Senior Member
 
JonfromCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Council Bluffs Iowa
Posts: 462
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 206 Post(s)
Liked: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by jomartz View Post
If the only thing you change in any given sound system are the cables, Would you be able to hear any difference in sound?
Only if you have been convinced that you will and believe that you do.
Kamikaze13 likes this.
JonfromCB is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 17 Old 01-30-2017, 09:14 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
eljaycanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 9,762
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1848 Post(s)
Liked: 2596
Quote:
Originally Posted by jomartz View Post
If the only thing you change in any given sound system are the cables, Would you be able to hear any difference in sound?
Depends. For example:
- If the old cables are defective and the new cables work properly, I would hear a difference.
- If the old and new cables work properly and are of comparable quality, I would probably not hear a difference.
jomartz likes this.

Last edited by eljaycanuck; 01-30-2017 at 09:20 AM.
eljaycanuck is online now  
post #5 of 17 Old 01-30-2017, 09:17 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,627
Mentioned: 179 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3659 Post(s)
Liked: 3247
These threads are painful to see, but I can't help rubbernecking .

Last edited by Gooddoc; 01-30-2017 at 10:45 AM.
Gooddoc is offline  
post #6 of 17 Old 01-30-2017, 09:28 AM
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 15,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 5767
Quote:
Originally Posted by jomartz View Post
If the only thing you change in any given sound system are the cables, Would you be able to hear any difference in sound?
You could, because there are three factors that will alter response: resistance, capacitance and inductance. The more important question is if spending more than $1 per foot for cable will give better resistance, capacitance and inductance than spending less. The answer to that question is no. For that matter many seriously expensive cables, as in over $100 per foot, even $1,000 per foot, have worse specs than very inexpensive cables.
jomartz and barryecohen like this.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
post #7 of 17 Old 01-30-2017, 03:41 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mtrot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: east texas
Posts: 2,339
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 530 Post(s)
Liked: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by jomartz View Post
If the only thing you change in any given sound system are the cables, Would you be able to hear any difference in sound?
Oh boy, you had to do it. Putting on protective equipment now. Yes, the difference between some cables is easily detected.
barryecohen likes this.

FAMILY ROOM--Legacy Signature II tower speakers(Front L/R), PSB Image 5T tower speakers(Surrounds), Denon AVR-X5200W, Krell FPB 400cx, AR ES-1 turntable w/ Audioquest 404-B cartridge, Oppo UDP-203 UHD Blu-ray Player, RCA HD-DVD player, Samsung HL67A 750A TV
MASTER BEDROOM--Dynaudio Audience 82 tower speakers, Outlaw LFM-1 sub, Yamaha RX-V1800 receiver, Sherbourn 5/1500A 5-channel amp, Oppo BDP-83 Universal Disc Player, Panasonic 60-ST60 plasma TV.
mtrot is offline  
post #8 of 17 Old 01-30-2017, 07:44 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
A9X-308's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 8,321
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1792 Post(s)
Liked: 1483
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrot View Post
Yes, the difference between some cables is easily detected.
When you know what you're listening to, yes. Otherwise, no.
A9X-308 is offline  
post #9 of 17 Old 01-30-2017, 08:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,621
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1018 Post(s)
Liked: 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by jomartz View Post
If the only thing you change in any given sound system are the cables, Would you be able to hear any difference in sound?


I would spend the money on a better AVR. those sony dh ones are suck
Gooddoc likes this.

THANK YOU!!! for your selfless contribution to the audio world
Anders Torger for Brutefir
Thomas Drugeon for Rephase
John Mulcahy for room eq wizard
Denis Sbragion for DRC room correction
Juha Hartikainen for Winisd
1201 is offline  
post #10 of 17 Old 01-30-2017, 09:45 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 437
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 153 Post(s)
Liked: 69
A cheap cable would work the same as an expensive cable. Expensive cables are for esthetics and most of the time durability. I usually buy cheap to normal quality cables. I would consider monoprice products to be normal quality.
nbp_civic is offline  
post #11 of 17 Old 01-30-2017, 11:24 PM
Advanced Member
 
littlefoott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Edmonton,Alberta
Posts: 940
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked: 223
24 gauge wire vs 14 gauge wire at 140 watts = maybe.

Audyssey is a great start, but not always a great finish.
Receiver:Marantz SR-7012, Speakers:Def Tech ST-8060 towers, CS-8040 center, SR-8040 surrounds, Pro Monitor 1000 heights
Subwoofer: SVS PB-2000
TV: 65" LG UG8700 remote: Harmony 1000
littlefoott is offline  
post #12 of 17 Old 01-31-2017, 06:58 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bluewizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,652
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2267 Post(s)
Liked: 1492
I would say the answer is - Likely NO.

Because I am not an absolutist, I concede that there might be some circumstance on some system where you could hear a difference in Speaker Cable. Note I am not saying you will, only that it could happen. But that would be with a very expensive, and very revealing and transparent system. Likely far above the cost available to use mere mortals.

I would say that for most people most of the time, quality but generally common wire of the right size, is all you really need.

Here is a link to Percent of Signal Loss for various wires and various speaker impedance, which will help in determining the right size and the right length.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...tml?highlight=

For the above, see Post#2 for all the charts.

Here is another thread that analyzes the Power Capabilities of common Speaker Wire -

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...ch-enough.html

Though the above link is more FYI than practical information.

For a vast majority of people in a vast majority of circumstances, common Oxygen Free Copper (OFC) Wire of 14ga is fine, and it is reasonably cheap.

Now if you want nicer looking wire, you can spend a bit more, but on the issue of what you spend, if you look near the end of this threads where the summary charts are posted -

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...d-you-pay.html

POST # 193 Charts -
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...l#post42741506

You will see that a majority of people surveyed paid well under 5% of their total system cost on ALL wire and cable. Many in the 2% to 4% range.

Again, for a vast majority of people common OFC 14ga Copper is all you need to get the job done.

Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by bluewizard; 01-31-2017 at 07:05 AM.
bluewizard is offline  
post #13 of 17 Old 01-31-2017, 07:20 AM
Newbie
 
locqho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Good system: yes. Bad one: no.
locqho is offline  
post #14 of 17 Old 01-31-2017, 07:45 AM
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 15,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 5767
Quote:
Originally Posted by locqho View Post
Good system: yes. Bad one: no.
The system doesn't matter. That's an audiophool myth, one concocted by the sellers of over-priced systems and over-priced wire.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
post #15 of 17 Old 01-31-2017, 09:06 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 2,515
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1248 Post(s)
Liked: 1941
That depends

I've seen people use telephone cable to make 100 foot runs and yes, changing to 12 gauge really improved the sound. The difference between 16 AWG and 12 AWG at shorter runs is not detectable. The pro sound guys have charts to help you select the right gauge cable for lengths of runs and what impedance and power used. Back in my PA days, I used 12 and 14 guage Rapco cable, it could be run over by trucks, stepped on by drunks, rained on etc. and no problems. For short 25 foot cables, I went 14 guage but had 12 AWG 50 footers for outside use.

If you are using something like SpeakerPower 12 KW amps at low impedance or Powersoft K20 stadium amplifiers, use the cable they specify in the manual.

For speaker wire, I purchase 100 foot spools of the stuff and use it for subwoofer wiring in the house and out in the garage. Use it for AVR wiring and wiring the PA amp to some large speakers for summer BBQs. Since I can be running 10 to 100 feet or higher wattage for outdoor use, I tend to buy spools of 12 AWG. A good catch all guage just in case I need to push the subs outside at 100 feet, if you don't do that--14 AWG is good for in home use when purchasing spools of the stuff. Oddly enough, it is more important to go higher guage for the much longer runs to rear surrounds in a basement than the three mains that are close to the amplifiers.

If it looks weird to run different guages to different speaker lengths, just use the guage that is required for the longest run.

As far as brand, I strongly recommend the copper kind with insulation. If it is good enough to wire the internals of the amplifier and internal wiring of your speaker--it will work fine. If you want mystical properties, it is no fun to change out all the wiring in your amp and rewire the speaker and crossover to match.

Enjoy!
18Hurts is offline  
post #16 of 17 Old 01-31-2017, 09:17 AM
Member
 
mitchco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Sunshine Coast Canada
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 132
mitchco is offline  
post #17 of 17 Old 01-31-2017, 10:40 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bluewizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,652
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2267 Post(s)
Liked: 1492
We have to attach some "IFs" to our comments. If he is using reasonable sized wire, and if he is using something in the range of common Consumer Audio Systems, then likely he won't hear a difference.

However, If he has a massively expensive, and truly transparent and revealing system, then he MIGHT here a difference.

But for the moment I'm going to assume his system is somewhere in the spectrum of common consumer systems.

The thing you want to avoid is excess spending on the speaker wire. In a recent discussion, someone posted a question about his system. He detailed the system and indicated he has a 40w/ch NAD C320BEE which is their smallest model. But he also indicated he had this very expensive cable -

https://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/...speaker-cable/

£7.50/meter, when constructed into a common length cable (3m/10ft), and terminated with QED Banana Plugs, the cable comes to £52.50 for EACH Cable, so £105/pair, which is $132/pair at current exchange rates. I'm OK if he wants to spend that kind of money on speaker wire, but likely that wire did no better job that $0.36/foot wire like this -

https://www.parts-express.com/audtek...50-ft--100-020

In another thread, someone was complaining because they couldn't afford a relatively modest £500 Stereo Amp because it was going to cost him another £500 for wire and cable. Our suggestion to him was - DON'T SPEND £500 ON WIRE AND CABLE.

While others will deny it, there is a reasonable sense of proportion. You do not put $500 speaker wire on a $500 Amp. Better to spend $900 on the amp and $100 on the wire. Though realistically, you could spend $975 on the Amp and $25 on the speaker wire.

Generally, most people spend well under 5% of the total system cost on ALL wire and cable. So, keep thing reasonable. If you happen to have a $5000 system, then you can probably afford to also spend $500 on wire and cable, you can afford it, but you really only need to spend around $100 to $200 depending on your specific configurations.

I use a percent of system cost, though others disagree, but the goal is to keep thing from getting grossly out of proportion.

Generally, sanity and bounds of reason must rule the day.

Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by bluewizard; 02-02-2017 at 06:08 AM.
bluewizard is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Tags
cables , music , sound , speakers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off