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post #31 of 80 Old 02-09-2017, 01:54 PM
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I have a Yamaha A2050 and have noticed a couple of problems with getting ATMOS through ARC and also some but not all of the content on VUDU using my BluRay. The free Dolby Digital demonstration bundle passes ATMOS when I use my Samsung 4K BR but not when I play it through the app on my LG OLED using ARC. What really confuses me is when I rented a 4K UHD movie with ATMOS on VUDU I couldn't get the ATMOS sound even using the Samsung Blu Ray even though the demonstration bundle worked. I've filed a ticket with VUDU asking why one is working and not the other a couple of weeks ago but have heard nothing back. Ideally I'm hoping I'll be able to stream ATMOS using ARC through the TV app so I can get both 4K UHD and ATMOS sound. Anyone having similar issues? Thanks.
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post #32 of 80 Old 02-09-2017, 07:42 PM
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Pretty sure that LG OLED does not support anything more than Dolby Digital (not DD+) over ARC. DD+ is required for Atmos. There's a thread in the Content Streaming forum (under Gaming & Content Streaming) with more information. Unfortunately, I don't have enough posts to link directly to it. Look for a thread title of Dolby Digital Plus (DD+) / Atmos over HDMI ARC. First post was March of 2016.
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post #33 of 80 Old 02-10-2017, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by IanR View Post
You've missed the point. No one is debating that AE configurations have their place. But for those of us who can or choose to go the ceiling installation route (which most agree is the superior immersion choice), we're just pointing out that no one has really issued any guidance for it .. and we're asking for that to be addressed.
Hi,
SVS did a short write up on Dolby Atmos in which they talked about various speaker set ups including ceiling fitted.
https://www.svsound.com/blogs/svs/75...to-dolby-atmos
Not sure if there is enough there for you but it inspired me to fit some decent bookshelf speakers on to the sloping ceilings of my attic cinema. Because the space between the plasterboard and the roof tiles was full of foam type insulation boards it was a real difficult job to hide the cables but a lot of effort saw it done with not too much patching up of the plastering to do.
The results are worth the effort that I put in but I can well understand why others would avoid all the disruption and go with Atmos enabled speakers. I saw that option as being less predictable though, especially with my two sloping ceilings that meet in the middle.
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post #34 of 80 Old 02-10-2017, 05:49 AM
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While there have been a number of videos and documents about Atmos-enabled speakers, I don't think I've seen a single one that discussed in/on-ceiling speakers for Atmos use. The enabled ones specifically talk about the need to focus or narrow the dispersion because of the bounce effect but I haven't seen anything for the ceiling speakers .. ie. should they be angled toward the main listening position? should the dispersion be even greater than a regular speaker due to the shorter distance to the MLP? The inference here is also that Dolby-enable add-ons would not be a good ceiling speaker but maybe this isn't the case.

Are there certain speaker designs (ex. concentric drivers) which are better? I've seen examples of people mounting speakers on the ceiling using U-shaped hangers which allows for directional adjustment but what about in-ceiling installs where you've typically only got one try to get it right? I've seen some designs which attempt to angle the woofer toward the MLP .. is this good? necessary? maybe it's better to angle the tweeter than the woofer .. or neither. The only guidance I've seen is that these speakers should be robust enough to handle a wide range of frequencies because unlike surrounds which typically aren't well exploited, Atmos speakers are expected to carry more range and volume.

Since most of the major manufacturers don't even sell specific Atmos ceiling speakers to my knowledge, I guess I'm looking to the Dolby professionals to comment on this.
Tks ...Ian
+1
I discovered Atmos a few months ago and after quite a bit of research, came to this same conclusion. The Dolby guidelines help some, but statements like 'wide dispersion' are pretty vague. I also found it a bit odd(disappointing) that even though many major speaker mfrs seem to be fazing out dipole/bipole-type surrounds (Dolby Atmos format uses sound objects and these are not recommended), only smaller makers seems to be introducing Atmos-specific in-ceiling speakers but even many(if not all) of those are still using open-backed designs w/o wall-boxes or specs to build?

I've done studio recordings in stereo for years and playback is (basically) an 'enhanced' version of recorded reference material (pls don't roast me here - didn't want to write a book), and this is the approach I've taken in my 5.1.4 build(all theory at this point). As best as I can find(and please correct me if I'm wrong) it appears that many, if not most Atmos studios record using sealed directional 3-ways (the Revel C763L/C760L(approx 30-degree tweeter/mid) are often mentioned) from about 9-ft for their Atmos reference - this is of course for a single listening position and matching the rest of their brand/sound set-up(which Dolby states as important) - given many with different speakers, rooms and needs(maybe 2 or 3-rows) need to take these into consideration. I think it important to mention that the C763L basic design was before Atmos and most of what Revel offers today are open-back designs 'enhanced' from pre-Atmos days? I'll be using Infinity ERS610s (basically an older version of the Revels) and guessing(hoping) they'll work well for my set-up - hope to find out in a few days and will post if anyone interested.

Lots of variables with an Atmos room (seems less so an issues with DTS-X) but a theory (and still a question for me) is given all the 5.1 mixed material out there as well as anyone into SACD recordings - would the recommended rear position of a Dolby 5.1.4 set-up be preferred in some cases over the 7.1.4? I imagine going forward, a 7.1.4(or higher) will win out with new material but would enjoy any feedback on this.
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post #35 of 80 Old 02-10-2017, 07:10 AM
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I too have been looking at how and where to place Dolby Atmos speakers in the ceiling. I have tower speakers in the front, but they are old Klipsch KPS-400's and have a rounded top so using elevation speakers on them is out, because there 300 watt 12" subs built into them. Also I want them in the ceiling with black covers so they will blend in when I finish the ceiling and it is painted black. I think I found what I will be using for my in-ceiling speakers for Dolby Atmos, Klipsch CDT-5650-C-II's. The tweeter looks directional and the CDT stand for Controlled Dispersion Technology® (CDT) which ought to help. I am planing on having 3 rows of seats so I will have the fronts around 45 degrees in front of the front row and the backs I will try for 45 degrees from the back row if I have the room which I think I will.

The main issue I have is trying to get my wife to understand why I need or want more speakers. She asked me last night after I had just looked at buy a better center channel for the HT, "how many speakers do I need". I tried to explain, but she wasn't getting it. I need to take her to my dealer who has a 7.2.4 DA system setup and let her hear what I am wanting. She probably still won't see why I want them though. My dealer's DA speakers appear to be normal round in-ceiling speakers and the sound comes over you as you listen to DA clips. I need to ask her if there are directional, I believe they are and that is how the sound is how the sound works its way across the room.
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post #36 of 80 Old 02-10-2017, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by gmore View Post
The Dolby guidelines help some, but statements like 'wide dispersion' are pretty vague.
Wide enough to cover all the listeners. Same as all your other speakers.

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post #37 of 80 Old 02-10-2017, 09:34 AM
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So was a Dolby rep going to be involved in this discussion? Guess that was my inference when the article said it would be closed in 4 weeks. Otherwise it's just another Atmos thread, no?
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post #38 of 80 Old 02-10-2017, 09:59 AM
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Hi,
SVS did a short write up on Dolby Atmos in which they talked about various speaker set ups including ceiling fitted.
https://www.svsound.com/blogs/svs/75...to-dolby-atmos.
Tks very much for this. If you chase the links to the Dolby installation notes for ceiling speakers in a 5.1.4 scenario, they specifically say "Most conventional overhead speakers with wide dispersion characteristics will work in a Dolby Atmos home theater". And later under 'Mounting Considerations' they say "If the chosen overhead speakers have a wide dispersion pattern (approximately 45 degrees from the acoustical reference axis over the audio band from 100 Hz to 10 kHz or wider), then speakers may be mounted facing directly downward. For speakers with narrower dispersion patterns, those with aimable or angled elements should be angled toward the primary listening position". There's no discussion of open-backed vs sealed (although they reference 'most conventional overhead speakers' which I think are open-backed by I'm no expert) .. but otherwise those quotes answer a number of the questions I raised. Your proposed solution should work well.
.

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post #39 of 80 Old 02-10-2017, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by gmore View Post
+1
I discovered Atmos a few months ago and after quite a bit of research, came to this same conclusion. The Dolby guidelines help some, but statements like 'wide dispersion' are pretty vague. I also found it a bit odd(disappointing) that even though many major speaker mfrs seem to be fazing out dipole/bipole-type surrounds (Dolby Atmos format uses sound objects and these are not recommended), only smaller makers seems to be introducing Atmos-specific in-ceiling speakers but even many(if not all) of those are still using open-backed designs w/o wall-boxes or specs to build?
See my comments moments ago to alexbarbel where Dolby seems to be suggesting that 'wide dispersion' is "approximately 45 degrees from the acoustical reference axis". The Dolby installation manual at https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...guidelines.pdf also has some stuff on 7.1.4 considerations that you might find useful. Although, as I said earlier, they make no direct statement about open-backed vs sealed.

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post #40 of 80 Old 02-10-2017, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by IanR View Post
See my comments moments ago to alexbarbel where Dolby seems to be suggesting that 'wide dispersion' is "approximately 45 degrees from the acoustical reference axis". The Dolby installation manual at https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...guidelines.pdf also has some stuff on 7.1.4 considerations that you might find useful. Although, as I said earlier, they make no direct statement about open-backed vs sealed.
Thanks for the response IanR and point taken - re-read my statement and my comment of 'vague' not a fair one. Everyone's set-up/ears/etc are going to be different but there are typical 'standards' in various systems as a base line. Dolby offers a lot of info as well as options such as wide-dispersion=face down, angled/focused=face PLL but then statements like "Dolby Atmos enabled speakers produce a slightly more diffuse overhead audio experience that is quite lifelike and, in some cases, may be preferable to the sound that originates from overhead speakers" which is both a wider and directional method? All while I keep reading 'experts' strongly recommending in-ceiling? Far from frustrated here, I enjoy this stuff but I think I'll be a bit bum'd if I end up preferring 'enabled' after all my work (note: no real way to test enabled 1st given my build).

Regarding 5.1.4 vs 7.1.4 with 'older' material, haven't really found anything on this and would love if someone with experience chime in.
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I have compared in ceiling to DAES in the same room. I preferred the DAES solution as I felt it offered a more diffused experience. The IC speakers were great, but sometimes get distracted by their location. Both are very good solutions, and it really is hard to say one is definitively better than the other. I think that is why you can't get an official answer from so called "Dolby experts". I can tell you that which ever option one chooses, a well set up system can be truly immersive.

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post #42 of 80 Old 02-10-2017, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by gmore View Post
Dolby offers a lot of info as well as options such as wide-dispersion=face down, angled/focused=face PLL but then statements like "Dolby Atmos enabled speakers produce a slightly more diffuse overhead audio experience that is quite lifelike and, in some cases, may be preferable to the sound that originates from overhead speakers" which is both a wider and directional method? All while I keep reading 'experts' strongly recommending in-ceiling? Far from frustrated here, I enjoy this stuff but I think I'll be a bit bum'd if I end up preferring 'enabled' after all my work (note: no real way to test enabled 1st given my build).
This is my problem, you have most people saying one thing, dolby saying the opposite, and then some people agree with dolby.
I'm frustrated from the style fact I want to get this installed and be done with it. I want to throw the ceiling speakers in that way when my receiver finally dies I can get a new one and throw it in and I'm good to go not be scrambling to install speakers and mess it up. However if the atmos modules are better like dolby says I'd hate to put ceiling speakers in to not like them.


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post #43 of 80 Old 02-11-2017, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by IanR View Post
Tks very much for this. If you chase the links to the Dolby installation notes for ceiling speakers in a 5.1.4 scenario, they specifically say "Most conventional overhead speakers with wide dispersion characteristics will work in a Dolby Atmos home theater". And later under 'Mounting Considerations' they say "If the chosen overhead speakers have a wide dispersion pattern (approximately 45 degrees from the acoustical reference axis over the audio band from 100 Hz to 10 kHz or wider), then speakers may be mounted facing directly downward. For speakers with narrower dispersion patterns, those with aimable or angled elements should be angled toward the primary listening position". There's no discussion of open-backed vs sealed (although they reference 'most conventional overhead speakers' which I think are open-backed by I'm no expert) .. but otherwise those quotes answer a number of the questions I raised. Your proposed solution should work well.
.
Hi Ian,
I'm glad that you found that article of interest. You can always email SVS (found under Support on their site) and they will always give you free advice, even if you do not own any of their products. I have two SVS SB2000 subs and a set of their Prime Towers. The subs are awesome whilst the Towers are very good, especially in the mids and lows (going down to 30Hz) but the treble can occasionally get slightly shrill. I prefer the treble on my Q Acoustics Concept 20.
I have put port bungs in all my speakers, including the ceiling mounts, in order to keep the bass nice and clean. It does make an appreciable difference. If you have time have a read of this from the Sound Doctor.
http://www.soundoctor.com/testcd/
He talks about why you should bung up the ports on your speakers after the heading : DECIDING ON THE CROSSOVER FREQUENCY
It makes perfect sense. In any case the rear of your ceiling mounted speakers will likely be close to the wall and will benefit from bungs to prevent too much boom. You can always try it both ways and see which sounds the best.
Anyway, the best of luck and I hope you get the sound that you are seeking.
Alex.

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post #44 of 80 Old 02-11-2017, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by gmore View Post
All while I keep reading 'experts' strongly recommending in-ceiling? Far from frustrated here, I enjoy this stuff but I think I'll be a bit bum'd if I end up preferring 'enabled' after all my work (note: no real way to test enabled 1st)

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...guidelines.pdf

From page 11 Dolby Atmos instalation Guide linky above.

Comparison to overhead speakers

Dolby Atmos enabled speakers produce a slightly more diffuse overhead audio experience that is quite lifelike and, in some cases, may be preferable to the sound that originates from overhead speakers.

If the ceiling is low or you have to mount the speakers on overhead trusses or brackets, overhead speakers may be too close to you as you listen. The audio may be distracting because you’ll hear and notice the output from each speaker instead of feeling immersed in an atmosphere in which sounds occur naturally overhead.

In this environment, Dolby Atmos enabled speakers may be a better solution for reproducing the height plane of sound, similar to what you would hear in a cinema. In a cinema, the overhead speakers are located high in the auditorium and naturally create a more diffuse experience. Using Dolby Atmos enabled speakers produces a similar experience: the reflection of sound off the ceiling makes the overhead effect sound diffuse, which results in the room sounding larger.

Audio mixers and experts who have auditioned Dolby Atmos enabled speakers agree that the sound these speakers produce can be preferable to the sound of dedicated overhead speakers.

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post #45 of 80 Old 02-15-2017, 05:02 AM
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Not really, due to the fact that they're special purpose speakers (the built-in Dolby Elevation processing makes them problematic to use as "just speakers" for any other speaker position). That's why there are videos, articles and threads like this about AE speakers. IF placing speakers above you was as different as you describe (compared to placing speakers anywhere else), then you would have seen similar videos, articles and threads about it. But instead, you haven't "seen a single one that discussed in/on-ceiling speakers for Atmos use". If you want to continue believing that moving a speaker from ear level to above you requires re-thinking the speaker, I won't argue otherwise, but then you'll have to continue wondering why the lack of coverage. If you're willing to start from a different premise, the lack of coverage will make sense. Your choice.
You kind of left out the most important part of the sentence you quoted.

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You could make the same argument for AE speakers too .. they're just speakers .. but that's obviously wrong.

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post #46 of 80 Old 02-15-2017, 07:56 AM
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You kind of left out the most important part of the sentence you quoted.
Nope, was only addressing the part I quoted, where he said that "you could make the same argument for AE speakers too.. they're just speakers". Because of the Dolby Elevation curve built into their networks, you can't make the same argument for AE speakers, because you'd be starting from a false premise. It's a straw man argument.

By comparison, other speakers remain "just speakers" after the advent of Atmos. In-ceiling speakers still behave like in-ceiling speakers, bookshelf speakers mounted high up still behave like bookshelf speakers. Atmos didn't change that.

To that end, the Atmos install guide does make some general recommendations for overhead speakers: they should be timbre, frequency and power matched as closely as possible to the base layer speakers. Full range is good, but properly bass managed speakers will also work fine. For ceilings less than 15 feet, wide dispersion (±45°) speakers are recommended. For taller ceilings, normal dispersion will work (sound will diffuse naturally by the time it reaches the listeners). For shorter ceilings (6'-8'), they recommend AE speakers to better replicate the diffuse sound you hear in Atmos cinemas and dubbing stages.

Those recommendations could apply to any speaker in your system: you want all your speakers to match as closely as possible and have enough dispersion to provide coverage for your listeners.

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post #47 of 80 Old 02-17-2017, 03:48 AM
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Thanks for the response IanR and point taken - re-read my statement and my comment of 'vague' not a fair one. Everyone's set-up/ears/etc are going to be different but there are typical 'standards' in various systems as a base line. Dolby offers a lot of info as well as options such as wide-dispersion=face down, angled/focused=face PLL but then statements like "Dolby Atmos enabled speakers produce a slightly more diffuse overhead audio experience that is quite lifelike and, in some cases, may be preferable to the sound that originates from overhead speakers" which is both a wider and directional method? All while I keep reading 'experts' strongly recommending in-ceiling? Far from frustrated here, I enjoy this stuff but I think I'll be a bit bum'd if I end up preferring 'enabled' after all my work (note: no real way to test enabled 1st given my build).

Regarding 5.1.4 vs 7.1.4 with 'older' material, haven't really found anything on this and would love if someone with experience chime in.
I am not a Dolby employee, expert, whatever. But, I can tell you that I spent a bit over 2 years building out my system to the current 7.2.4 configuration that I have. I will put it up against anyone's including most commercial ones.

You want on-ceiling (my preference) or in-ceiling rather than Atmos enabled. The development of the use of Atmos parallels that of surround sound years ago. In the beginning surround was all about ambient sound...rain, wind, crowd noise, etc. That was all that could be done, so the more widely dispersed and diffuse the sound, the more realistic it was.

Then, the ability to steer sound was developed and sound engineers could place sounds within the sound field more accurately. At that point having say, a car pass you from front to back was not reproduced so effectively with diffuse sound. With diffuse sound it might be that a car was somewhere on your right side. With a more direct sound, it paased you not simply somewhere on the right, but from your front right to your rear right.

In the beginning of the use of Atmos effects, a lot of it was ambient sound, and yes, wide dispersions diffuse sound could be reproduced as well, or in some cases, better with Atmos enabled speakers. But, as the sound engineers have begun to figure out what they can do with and have begun to use sound object placement, think sound steering, the ability to place a sound object at a discrete position within your sound field.

So, if there is a plane in the movie that goes from over your head at Top Front Left to over your head at Top Rear Right, where would you want speakers? With AE you would get the affect somewhat, but it would be more at somewhere sort of over my head kind of in the front toward the left and it is passing over me kind of to the right rear. Let's put it this way...do you just want to know that it is up there somewhere, or do,you want to have to duck?

This is getting longish so I will cut it off here. I can tell you of my buildout and why I did things, but it would get even longer. Go with on-celing or in-ceiling with aimable tweeters. Use sealed units to control back reflections, scattering, diffraction, and other issues. Go with 7.1.4 over 5.1.4.

Turn it on and turn it up...and enjoy!

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post #48 of 80 Old 02-17-2017, 08:46 AM
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Bit of a dinosaur here in that I am just really exploring the Atmos possibility in the last 6 months or so. I really appreciate your explanation Willie, and makes me think that the dipole surrounds that I currently have and use may be doing me a disservice because they use such a dispersed sound field.

I am also at a great point because I have my ceiling torn out for my theater remodel so I will wire it for future Atmos upgrade. So this thread has been a good learning experience.
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post #49 of 80 Old 02-17-2017, 10:39 AM
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I am not a Dolby employee, expert, whatever. But, I can tell you that I spent a bit over 2 years building out my system to the current 7.2.4 configuration that I have. I will put it up against anyone's including most commercial ones.

You want on-ceiling (my preference) or in-ceiling rather than Atmos enabled. The development of the use of Atmos parallels that of surround sound years ago. In the beginning surround was all about ambient sound...rain, wind, crowd noise, etc. That was all that could be done, so the more widely dispersed and diffuse the sound, the more realistic it was.

Then, the ability to steer sound was developed and sound engineers could place sounds within the sound field more accurately. At that point having say, a car pass you from front to back was not reproduced so effectively with diffuse sound. With diffuse sound it might be that a car was somewhere on your right side. With a more direct sound, it paased you not simply somewhere on the right, but from your front right to your rear right.

In the beginning of the use of Atmos effects, a lot of it was ambient sound, and yes, wide dispersions diffuse sound could be reproduced as well, or in some cases, better with Atmos enabled speakers. But, as the sound engineers have begun to figure out what they can do with and have begun to use sound object placement, think sound steering, the ability to place a sound object at a discrete position within your sound field.

So, if there is a plane in the movie that goes from over your head at Top Front Left to over your head at Top Rear Right, where would you want speakers? With AE you would get the affect somewhat, but it would be more at somewhere sort of over my head kind of in the front toward the left and it is passing over me kind of to the right rear. Let's put it this way...do you just want to know that it is up there somewhere, or do,you want to have to duck?

This is getting longish so I will cut it off here. I can tell you of my buildout and why I did things, but it would get even longer. Go with on-celing or in-ceiling with aimable tweeters. Use sealed units to control back reflections, scattering, diffraction, and other issues. Go with 7.1.4 over 5.1.4.

Turn it on and turn it up...and enjoy!
Thx!
'point source' had me thinking the same - good to know someone with experience happy with ceiling/direct.
I'm committed to 5.1.4 at this point but could 'fairly' easily switch if I feel I'm lacking something
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post #50 of 80 Old 02-18-2017, 03:32 AM
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Bit of a dinosaur here in that I am just really exploring the Atmos possibility in the last 6 months or so. I really appreciate your explanation Willie, and makes me think that the dipole surrounds that I currently have and use may be doing me a disservice because they use such a dispersed sound field.

I am also at a great point because I have my ceiling torn out for my theater remodel so I will wire it for future Atmos upgrade. So this thread has been a good learning experience.
If you can configure your dipole as bipole, you still might be able to use them. Please note that my side surrounds and rear surrounds are bipole. There is nothing wrong with bipole in a home theater application when used appropriately.

In my situation, I have 2 rows of seating. The second row is on an 8" riser. My side surrounds are, in reality, a combination of direct and bi-pole. The Monitor Audio Gold FX side surrounds actually come for use as direct or dipole by the use of switches on the speaker.

You need to see a picture for my description to make sense...

http://ca2.monitoraudiocdn.com/produ...20150107110426

By setting the switches in a manner other than described in the manual, they can be configured as bipole. Set that way the speakers sit in the space between the 1st and 2nd rows. The main driver fires directly into that space. The mid and tweeter on the front baffle fires forward and the mid and tweeter on the rear baffle fires rearward. It provides a very wide side surround field that fully immerses both rows of seats.

So, dipole, not really. Bipole, perfectly fine in the proper location/use. For some, this is heresy...but my opinion is think about it and then do what works.

What make/model are your dipoles?

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post #51 of 80 Old 02-18-2017, 06:56 AM
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My set up is/was very similar to yours with a riser in the back row which is my main seating position. Riser height is going to change a few inches in my new build, but seating position wont.

They are an old (said I was a dinosaur) set of BA 575x dipole surrounds. One midrange that fires towards the listener and mid/tweet on each side that fire along the wall to diffuse sound. And no way to change that, so they are probably not helping me out with the modeling and dispersion that they encode into movies these days.
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post #52 of 80 Old 02-18-2017, 11:28 AM
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My set up is/was very similar to yours with a riser in the back row which is my main seating position. Riser height is going to change a few inches in my new build, but seating position wont.

They are an old (said I was a dinosaur) set of BA 575x dipole surrounds. One midrange that fires towards the listener and mid/tweet on each side that fire along the wall to diffuse sound. And no way to change that, so they are probably not helping me out with the modeling and dispersion that they encode into movies these days.
I would not hesitate to use those as side surrounds...or, in a 7.1, move them to the rear surrounds.

Or, if you are going to go with 5.1, use them at the rear for rear surrounds.

As long as they still sound good...

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post #53 of 80 Old 02-18-2017, 12:44 PM
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Good to hear. Already have a 7.1 setup with timbre matching BA direct fire as rear surround.

Will probably move the 575x forward a bit and am looking at klipsch for atmos as it seems they are a decent match to the older BA THX setup
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post #54 of 80 Old 02-18-2017, 02:30 PM
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Good to hear. Already have a 7.1 setup with timbre matching BA direct fire as rear surround.

Will probably move the 575x forward a bit and am looking at klipsch for atmos as it seems they are a decent match to the older BA THX setup
Are you talking about the Atmos-enabled flavor of Klipsch? RP-140SA?

Insofar as Dolby Atmos-enabled, I would expect them to work better than most. The sound from the tweeter would be more "beamy"
which should lead to a better reflection off the ceiling.

Klipsch makes very good speakers...

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post #55 of 80 Old 02-19-2017, 02:02 AM
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Hi,
i wonder if anyone here can advise on how I should try to aim my four ceiling speakers in my 7.2.4 set up.
The ceiling speakers are Q Acoustics 2020i mounted on Btech pro grip clamps. Unfortunately I don't know their dispersion angle. They are mounted on each side of a sloping attic ceiling with the apex of the ceiling directly overhead and running with the line of vision over the screen. So there is a sloping ceiling to the left and one to the right with a pair of speakers mounted on each.
The middle of the woofers are only 6 feet 3 inches from the ground (not ideal but height constraints would not allow any higher unless the speakers came very close together). The speakers are six feet apart from front to back and also from right to left. My receiver is the Marantz 7010 which uses the top Audyssey (Platinum ) with dual sub outlets.
I rejected the use of Atmos Enabled speakers due to the triangular nature of the ceiling.
I only have one seat to worry about. this seat is in the middle of the square of ceiling speakers.
At the moment I have the speakers angled towards my head.
I am VERY happy with the overall sound of the system from the floor speakers but I am not convinced that I am getting the best from the ceiling speakers and would like to try to improve this if possible. The sounds just don't seem convincingly from above and are possibly merging too much with the floor speakers. Having said that I do occasionally hear stuff that is from above and I would say these sounds are likely to be the more localised ones rather than the more diffuse such as rain. It may be that the low height is the issue and if so then I can not do anything about that but I will try aiming the speakers straight out at right angles to the ceiling behind and point them more directly down to the floor.
Has anyone got any other ideas worth a try ?
Thanks in advance.
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post #56 of 80 Old 02-19-2017, 04:30 AM
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Hi,
i wonder if anyone here can advise on how I should try to aim my four ceiling speakers in my 7.2.4 set up.
The ceiling speakers are Q Acoustics 2020i mounted on Btech pro grip clamps. Unfortunately I don't know their dispersion angle. They are mounted on each side of a sloping attic ceiling with the apex of the ceiling directly overhead and running with the line of vision over the screen. So there is a sloping ceiling to the left and one to the right with a pair of speakers mounted on each.
The middle of the woofers are only 6 feet 3 inches from the ground (not ideal but height constraints would not allow any higher unless the speakers came very close together). The speakers are six feet apart from front to back and also from right to left. My receiver is the Marantz 7010 which uses the top Audyssey (Platinum ) with dual sub outlets.
I rejected the use of Atmos Enabled speakers due to the triangular nature of the ceiling.
I only have one seat to worry about. this seat is in the middle of the square of ceiling speakers.
At the moment I have the speakers angled towards my head.
I am VERY happy with the overall sound of the system from the floor speakers but I am not convinced that I am getting the best from the ceiling speakers and would like to try to improve this if possible. The sounds just don't seem convincingly from above and are possibly merging too much with the floor speakers. Having said that I do occasionally hear stuff that is from above and I would say these sounds are likely to be the more localised ones rather than the more diffuse such as rain. It may be that the low height is the issue and if so then I can not do anything about that but I will try aiming the speakers straight out at right angles to the ceiling behind and point them more directly down to the floor.
Has anyone got any other ideas worth a try ?
Thanks in advance.
What is the height of the tweeters of your fronts, side surrounds, and rear surrounds? In your seating situation they should probably be no higher than seated ear height.

In general, since the signal strength to the floor level speakers is higher than that of the Atmos speakers, the floor level sound will override that of the Atmos speakers and you will lose some of the effect.

A lot of the effectiveness of Atmos comes from the angular separation of the floor speakers and the Atmos speakers. And, you will get more of the effect from the higher frequencies. Higher frequencies are much more directional than lower frequencies.

Also, you could use the manual settings to boost the signal levels of the Atmos levels. Don't like it? Put the levels back down.

What is your floor covering? If it is bare wood or tile you are probably getting sound reflections off of the floor which muddies the sound. Think your favorite modern day restaurant that has industrial chic decor...multiple hard surfaces. At a minimum you want carpet or at least a large area rug.

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post #57 of 80 Old 02-19-2017, 06:36 AM
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Are you talking about the Atmos-enabled flavor of Klipsch? RP-140SA?
Thinking more along the R-1800 or R-1650 in ceiling.
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post #58 of 80 Old 02-19-2017, 07:42 AM
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Thinking more along the R-1800 or R-1650 in ceiling.
You might want to go with the R1800, power handling 80 watts, rather than the R-1650, power handling 35 watts.

Going in-ceiling you want to err on the side of more is better.

In particular, because of hole-recutting, patching, etc. you do not want to be fooling with replacing things unless there is a very good reason.

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post #59 of 80 Old 02-19-2017, 09:22 AM
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I just installed some NHT atmos mini modules and ran the setup through my Pioneer SC-95. I noted that while the receiver setup the distances and channel levels, when checking the manual eq menu it left all adjustments for the modules at 0. Is this a recommendation by Dolby/other manufacturers or is it just a Pioneer thing, or maybe I've got an issue?

Still too early to makeup my mind on the modules as I haven't gotten a chance to watch a movie with them, but the pink noise does sound like it's coming from the ceiling which is pretty cool.

My setup: Sonus Faber Venere 2.5 and center, Ascend HTM200SE surround, NHT atmos minis, dual Rythmik L12's, Pioneer SC-95, Minidsp DDRC-88BM, Rotel RMB1077, LG OLED B7P
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post #60 of 80 Old 02-19-2017, 09:43 AM
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I agree that patching, etc would be a pain, but the good news is Willy, my ceiling is open joists right now. So I am building 12" deep backer boxes and will map out where they are for future atmos. And with current plan to do a star field ceiling patching would be a non issue.
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