Tekton Impact and Double Impact - Page 10 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #271 of 960 Old 05-18-2017, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by healthnut View Post
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What would you expect them to say? They've just been skinned for $8000! (Fancy cables not incl.)

Yep, a $5000 tube amp hooked up to $3000 speakers of a non-validated design... that's the way to "high fidelity".
The DI's may not have been "validated" with measurements to your satisfaction, but they have received, in my view, the more critical validation of satisfied owners.
My post was more about the ridiculous budget allocation between amp and speakers, but I guess that's the sort of outcome one gets when rampant subjectivity is allowed to take the reins and trample all over rational thinking.

Anyway... It's got nothing to do with my satisfaction; it's that no measurements have been provided at all for the design. The Tekton's design - and particularly the "snowflake" tweeter array - is fairly described as "unorthodox". I don't think it's unreasonable for those who have more than a basic working knowledge of speaker design to regard an unorthodox design with a degree of scepticism until they can eyeball a few basic measurements. For instance, Tekton's site claims that the DI's have: "Ultra-linear frequency response with ±1dB deviation from 70Hz-20kHz". Surely some measurements must have been taken to develop, verify and claim that spec for the speaker, so why would it be so difficult or counter-productive to provide them? Why hide one's light under a bushel?

Anyway, did you notice that David has provided a great opportunity for Tekton owners to shut the sceptics up?
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... I'd be happy to measure these (or any other) speakers under the correct conditions to generate a reference standard polar response, or really any requested measurement within reason. Our system is fully automated and a 72 measurement polar response would take about 30 mins to complete. It would be dead-on accurate and fully repeatable from approximately 250Hz - 32kHz, or even higher if need be.

If anyone is local to us and is interested, just contact me privately. Measurements would be yours to keep (posting / sharing them is up to you) and fully confidential.
If they measure like dreck, you shut the hell up about it and nobody else knows, right? If they measure like bloody champions, you can post the measurements here and all the sceptics can eat crow. What have owners got to loose?
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post #272 of 960 Old 05-18-2017, 06:48 AM
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That said, I wouldn't go "un-treating" your room just yet. You may find you dislike these speakers if you do, because I assume their off-axis response is currently being absorbed up by your dead room; that's probably a good thing. I'm sure these speakers do better in treated environments than untreated. While that's true of most speakers, it's less a requirement for speakers having even and controlled off-axis response and dispersion.
Oh, I totally realize I've gone from speakers that are polarizing in the like/hate category to another set of the same. I contacted Coincident speakers to see if I there was some way to hear their product on a trial basis. They told me they wouldn't. And that there has never been a case of "buyers remorse" from any of their customers ever. You think Eric's claims are outrageous? So basically told me to pound salt. I wrote back and suggested, if that never happens, whats the risk of offering a return? Waiting for that reply now. Also, I don't intend to totally untreat my room. I just plan to do some trial/error stuff to see if I can improve the sound. It's that "hobby" part of this audiophile thing.

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As for your comments about subs...well...let's just say I'm a big believer in using subs to optimize their room location separately than the mains. Plus, it'd be a very rare tower (maybe the JTR monster) that would satiate my needs for sub-bass, especially for movies and electronic music, but, admittedly, I'm a nutcase there, lol. I'm sure, however, these DIs can play lower than your B&W's, so, again, if that's your reference, it's not hard to believe they can tear them up in that regard, too.
I totally agree a sub is a plus. I'm not getting rid of it but I may go to a design to work better for LFE and less for music bass extension. I also build speakers so again, doing the "hobby" thing to see what difference it will make. And the 804s will stay in the room with the DIs for a while configured on Zone2. But eventually will move to our family room. Even if you hate the sound you have to admit they are cool looking. Or maybe not.
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post #273 of 960 Old 05-18-2017, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post
My post was more about the ridiculous budget allocation between amp and speakers, but I guess that's the sort of outcome one gets when rampant subjectivity is allowed to take the reins and trample all over rational thinking. ...
That is not uncommon. After you have been in the hobby a long time it just kinda happens that all you have is top end gear, so naturally you tend to hook up what you have and see how it sounds. It's not really a mismatch, there are no rules on this kind of thing.
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post #274 of 960 Old 05-18-2017, 09:52 AM
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I don't know why I'm bothering to respond, but I feel there's an implication here that I don't care how a speaker sounds and that's certainly untrue...
I fully understand what you are saying. For you a loudspeaker has to sound good and measure good or you are not going to be satisfied with that purchase. The specifications are an important part of your experience and a product has to measure a certain way or you are not interested in them. That's fine. That is what it takes to make you feel satisfied in your purchase.
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post #275 of 960 Old 05-18-2017, 10:12 AM
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I may consider auditioning other similarly priced speakers against the DIs. They would have to be home-trialable though. So far it looks like Salk will allow demos of it's standard "lower priced" speakers. Not sure what levels of speakers apply, but I may ask. Philharmonic apparently has a two week trial period so they are a possibility. I am not committed to this next step yet but I really want to research some things.

What other manufactures would the collective suggest I consider vs the DIs?
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post #276 of 960 Old 05-18-2017, 11:42 AM
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All loudspeakers can be tested by this same method and it is indeed fairly standardized. ... I'd be happy to measure these ... speakers under the correct conditions to generate a reference standard polar response, or really any requested measurement within reason. Our system is fully automated and a 72 measurement polar response would take about 30 mins to complete. It would be dead-on accurate and fully repeatable from approximately 250Hz - 32kHz, or even higher if need be.

If anyone is local to us and is interested, just contact me privately. Measurements would be yours to keep (posting / sharing them is up to you) and fully confidential.
I really wish I lived nearby. I'd love to have a few pairs of speakers tested by you and your team to see how they stack up against what I'm expecting.

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post #277 of 960 Old 05-18-2017, 12:13 PM
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I really wish I lived nearby. I'd love to have a few pairs of speakers tested by you and your team to see how they stack up against what I'm expecting.
Me Too! I'd load the F250 up with the 804s and the DIs and be on the way. Too far from Houston though!
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post #278 of 960 Old 05-19-2017, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Bullitt5094 View Post
I may consider auditioning other similarly priced speakers against the DIs. They would have to be home-trialable though. So far it looks like Salk will allow demos of it's standard "lower priced" speakers. Not sure what levels of speakers apply, but I may ask. Philharmonic apparently has a two week trial period so they are a possibility. I am not committed to this next step yet but I really want to research some things.

What other manufactures would the collective suggest I consider vs the DIs?


Golden Ear, B&W, Ascend, the upcoming Chane L7's


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post #279 of 960 Old 05-19-2017, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Bullitt5094 View Post
I may consider auditioning other similarly priced speakers against the DIs. They would have to be home-trialable though. So far it looks like Salk will allow demos of it's standard "lower priced" speakers. Not sure what levels of speakers apply, but I may ask. Philharmonic apparently has a two week trial period so they are a possibility. I am not committed to this next step yet but I really want to research some things.

What other manufactures would the collective suggest I consider vs the DIs?
Assuming you have capable sub(s), the similarly priced JTR Noesis 212HT.

(Note: The product page has typos in the description. The 212HT is a 2-way speaker with 12" woofers.)
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post #280 of 960 Old 05-19-2017, 07:59 AM
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Thanks for the suggestions! And I may consider more expensive offerings as well. I'm looking at 12K and down. I'd like to keep it around 6K or under if possible. And in researching it may take at least 6 to find something superior to what I'm hearing from the DIs. So far I haven't stumbled over anything under 6 that has anything close to the efficiency and bass extension the DIs have. Most are in the 85dB range with bass rolling off at 35. The Salk Veracity HT3 has caught my interest at the $6k level. If I win the lottery I would go for the Exotica 3s. I don't think the wife would let the ugly Soundscape 10s in the house! Or the Philharmonic 3 either. The Phil slim is interesting but I don't think it would work for HT duty in a treated room the size of mine. But maybe I'm wrong on that. I would like to pull something in to give the DIs some competition though just to satisfy my own curiosity.
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post #281 of 960 Old 05-19-2017, 11:05 AM
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Thanks for the suggestions! And I may consider more expensive offerings as well. I'm looking at 12K and down. I'd like to keep it around 6K or under if possible. And in researching it may take at least 6 to find something superior to what I'm hearing from the DIs. So far I haven't stumbled over anything under 6 that has anything close to the efficiency and bass extension the DIs have. Most are in the 85dB range with bass rolling off at 35. The Salk Veracity HT3 has caught my interest at the $6k level. If I win the lottery I would go for the Exotica 3s. I don't think the wife would let the ugly Soundscape 10s in the house! Or the Philharmonic 3 either. The Phil slim is interesting but I don't think it would work for HT duty in a treated room the size of mine. But maybe I'm wrong on that. I would like to pull something in to give the DIs some competition though just to satisfy my own curiosity.
Bullitt, that is because it's simply not possible to achieve ~99dB/2.83V/1m (4Ω) sensitivity and useful 20Hz capability from 10" woofers in that sized cabinet. Maybe one or the other, but not both at the same time. This is blatant "specmanship" from Tekton and is a prime example of why a lot of blokes here bang on endlessly about speaker measurements. When you've got a rough idea of what a speaker should be able to achieve from the physics that govern speaker design (eg. search: "Hoffman's Iron Law"), one can spot this sort of chicanery a mile away.

Say we compare the DI's to the JTR Noesis 215HT's. That speaker is an example of what's required (very large cabinet and 15" woofers) to achieve useful 20Hz capability and "just" mid-90's sensitivity. (BTW, the 215HT's were sent to Josh Ricci (Data-Bass) for independent testing; results are linked on the product page.) If you scan through JTR's speaker range, you can clearly see the trade-off's the designer has made: the HT/HTR variants are optimised for high sensitivity and must be run with subs; the RT/RM variants are tuned lower (subs optional) at the expense of high sensitivity.

Given your target $6K budget, the new(ish) JTR Noesis 212RT may be a good contender for you. (Pictured on JTR's Facebook.) With optional full grilles and custom automotive paint job, they might even pass muster with bride too.

If you're climbing towards $10K a pair, I'd steer you towards looking at high performance, DSP controlled active speaker systems. Ones that immediately come to mind are the extraordinarily well crafted offerings from Funk Audio, like the 8.2P Active Pair. If you've got big amps to sell off, perhaps the Active Line Array Pair are within reach?

Good luck with everything and apologies if that came across like a bit of a lecture earlier.

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post #282 of 960 Old 05-19-2017, 11:20 AM
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Married 38 years. Lectures are not a problem and I didn't take it that way anyway. I appreciate everyone's valuable time.
I was actually considering a speaker configuration using active crossovers. MiniDSP makes some interesting products but would require and amp per crossover output. The active speaker concept is indeed interesting and I am planning to upgrade my Denon in the very near future anyway. So, I'll keep your suggestions in mind.
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post #283 of 960 Old 05-19-2017, 11:25 AM
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These are of course very personal choices. Others will have other choices, which I completely respect.

@healthnut : I chose the DIs over the GE Ones. Reference may be another story. I still like the GE Ones. I will be auditioning the GE Ref once my local dealer has it in rotation.

@Bullitt5094 : I'm considering the Volti Audio Rival as well as the Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S and the Pure Audio Trio 15 Voxativ. Primarily since I have not been exposed to open baffle or horn based designs.

Making note of the fact that everyone's take on these matters is different and can range widely; for me, my ears and preferences....I would say that I would need to be in the 12K - 15K new, for speakers, that would take on the DIs...again, reiterating: to these ears and for my preferences, and based on extended demos and ownership of speakers in the price range I listed.
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post #284 of 960 Old 05-19-2017, 11:42 AM
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BTW:

Saw the buzz regarding the Double Impacts and since I had been curious about Tekton's speakers over the years, decided to give the DIs a try, with Terry London's review being decisive.

I had finalized on a pair of Harbeths or Devores and was waiting to choose (between the two brands and between the HL5Plus/40.2 or the O 93/96s) based on how the new home renovation would finalize and which room would ultimately be used for 2ch audio.

I know I would have been happy with any one of these four speakers as well as the Golden Ear Ones, which I mentioned in my previous post.
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post #285 of 960 Old 05-19-2017, 11:58 AM
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Tekton does have it's OB design for $1700 right now. Just FYI. Not trying to push it or anything. Just wanted to be sure you saw that.
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post #286 of 960 Old 05-19-2017, 12:48 PM
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Only speaker I remember performing similar to the the Double Impacts for under 20k was the Legacy Focus SE. Zu audio makes very good speakers also.But to be honest with you....when you hit the 6k + budget for mains...the options are way to many to mention them all, not to mention some speakers brand that we dont even know exist.listen to as many as you can... tajke advantage of the ones that have in home trial, that is what I did for 3 years...listened to every single speaker I could get my hands on, till I ordered tekton. My search ended...
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post #287 of 960 Old 05-19-2017, 01:54 PM
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......Zu audio makes very good speakers also.But to be honest with you....
This explains a lot.
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post #288 of 960 Old 05-19-2017, 02:17 PM
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Tekton does have it's OB design for $1700 right now. Just FYI. Not trying to push it or anything. Just wanted to be sure you saw that.

I was aware of the OBs when I approached Eric. He encouraged me to go with the DIs, and I did.
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Zu audio makes very good speakers also.
Zu Audio makes spectacularly bad speakers.

http://noaudiophile.com/Zu/


https://www.stereophile.com/content/...r-measurements:




http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/mea...zucable_druid/:




https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...tem-test-bench:

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post #290 of 960 Old 05-19-2017, 06:20 PM
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Zu Audio makes spectacularly bad speakers.
Not so good. Funny thing. There was a lot of buzz about Zu when I went to the Newport show. So I went into their room and they spun a disc and I sat on the pillows and I wondered what all the buzz was about, I didn't hear anything that I liked. I wrote it off as a bad demo or something.

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post #291 of 960 Old 05-19-2017, 07:54 PM
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Zu audio makes very good speakers also.
Zu Audio makes spectacularly bad speakers.

http://noaudiophile.com/Zu/


https://www.stereophile.com/content/...r-measurements:




http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/mea...zucable_druid/:




https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...tem-test-bench:

Never heard that model you posted about. But when I heard the Zu Definition sounded very very good and built quality was very high end also.
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post #292 of 960 Old 05-20-2017, 08:14 AM
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Lol. You have to scratch your head and wonder why they would submit their speakers to be measured. Their customer base has no interest in measurements and it just exposes them to ridicule by anyone that values good speaker design.

I suppose they figure their target buyer will dismiss them as irrelevant regardless of how bad they are.
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Not so good. Funny thing. There was a lot of buzz about Zu when I went to the Newport show. So I went into their room and they spun a disc and I sat on the pillows and I wondered what all the buzz was about, I didn't hear anything that I liked. I wrote it off as a bad demo or something.
Zu started off as a 'high end' cable company. When they started building speakers they adopted the same marketing technique for them as with their cables: outrageous claims that don't stand up to scientific scrutiny.
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Their customer base has no interest in measurements and it just exposes them to ridicule by anyone that values good speaker design.
That has a bit of a familiar ring to it.
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...outrageous claims that don't stand up to scientific scrutiny....
Never saw the specs, they just didn't sound good.

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post #295 of 960 Old 05-20-2017, 12:44 PM
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Enzo XL measurements....I believe this was already posted here before.

"Overall, the Tekton Enzo XL measured much better than I was expecting, given its idiosyncratic design: three tweeters in a vertical array, two large-diameter, paper-cone woofers, and that lively enclosure. Its combination of high sensitivity and extended low frequencies is rare in speakers in this price class, and, other than that resonance just below 2kHz, seems to have been achieved with little compromise elsewhere.?John Atkinson
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With the new design of the DI... adding mid drivers...should improve this measurements quite a bit
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But when I heard the Zu Definition sounded very very good and built quality was very high end also.
Sounds to me like you prefer speakers that do a terrible job of being speakers.

This love of poorly designed and performing speakers feels like something hipsters came up with.
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post #298 of 960 Old 05-20-2017, 01:02 PM
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[QUOTE=canillo;53109114]
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Lol. You have to scratch your head and wonder why they would submit their speakers to be measured. Their customer base has no interest in measurements and it just exposes them to ridicule by anyone that values good speaker design.

I suppose they figure their target buyer will dismiss them as irrelevant regardless of how bad they are.
I have to say THIS speaker did measure pretty bad....I havent heard THIS speaker so I cant have an opinion on how it sounds , or in what conditions this speaker was measured...but how do you know what their costumer base is? Do you even know anyone who owns them? Have you heard or found any measurements on any of their higher end speakers...I repeat....I (actually) heard their Definition and sounded good...Im gonna take a guess ....you havent heard any of their speakers....
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post #299 of 960 Old 05-20-2017, 01:26 PM
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But when I heard the Zu Definition sounded very very good and built quality was very high end also.
Sounds to me like you prefer speakers that do a terrible job of being speakers.

This love of poorly designed and performing speakers feels like something hipsters came up with.
I mentioned a brand of speaker that I heard....and someone came with a post of the prob the worse speaker this company makes and posted their measurements...I said the 16k speaker that I listened to sounded very good. I didnt say I loved it. Call me hipster....Id rather be that ...than a close minded borring person who has to stick to the same old mainstream speaker designs....That only holds you back on experiencing the new things this hobby has to offer in the future. Do you really think in 20 years we will be listening music the same way we are now,?with the same speaker designs?..NOT ME...im pretty sure with your set of mind...you will.

FYI. in my line of work I get to listen to the most incredible set ups you can think off. I get to compare speakers you can only dream of listening ever, from live concert to the most critical music and movie studio mixers in the world. So NO... I dont fall in love with speaker designs....I fall in love with speakers that sound amazing regardless of their design or price.

Last edited by canillo; 05-20-2017 at 01:37 PM.
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post #300 of 960 Old 05-20-2017, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canillo View Post
....So NO... I dont fall in love with speaker designs....I fall in love with speakers that sound amazing regardless of their design or price.
I could have not have said that better.

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