Tekton Impact and Double Impact - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 916 Old 03-08-2017, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Tekton Impact and Double Impact

Hello,
Just wanted to see if anyone had any first hand experience with either of these speakers? I know Terry London of Home Theater Review has a review for the Double Impact coming soon, but I'm still interested in getting as many opinions as I can. I think the regular Impact will suit my needs and leave me a little scratch for a sub, but have only seen good reviews of the DI's and the DI's a also pretty large. I'll be doing HT and Music 50/50 and room size is 3000 cubic feet sitting about 14' away.
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post #2 of 916 Old 03-08-2017, 04:49 PM
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Oh my.

Quote:
... Our revolutionary U.S. patent #9247339 (issued January 26th, 2016) allows us to literally align the moving mass of speaker cones to the harmonic spectra of the musical instruments being played. This means that, in theory, we’ve now made every other high fidelity loudspeaker on earth obsolete in one fell swoop! ...

... For example: the plucked and resonating low ‘e’ note (41Hz) on a Fender Jazz bass guitar has a moving mass of 19 grams. The highest reviewed and well-regarded subwoofers of today have cones with an average of 200-300 grams of moving mass to reproduce the same low ‘e’ tone. This is the equivalent of a Formula One team showing up on race day with a special new race car that has 15,000 pounds of sand added to it! Our competitors are building subwoofers in this exact way today. A subwoofer with 300 grams of moving mass can only give you a dulled out response down to 15Hz. The laws of physics prove the subwoofer cannot be musical nor can it even begin to produce the harmonic spectra of a Fender Jazz bass guitar (or any other bass-producing musical instrument) – period.

Simply put, if the moving mass of the speaker cone is not the same or less than the original source (i.e. the violin, guitar, trumpet, etc.), the musical instrument’s upper overtones and upper harmonics when played back through the loudspeaker system will sound diminished, lowered in volume, progressively damped, and lower in sensitivity when compared to the original sound source or musical event. In my mind, I see this relationship as a mathematical algorithm and I design loudspeakers in a new and innovative way that keeps this in mind.

So what do these new loudspeakers sound like? Imagine being in a symphony hall with a dozen lights in the ceiling turned on and then having the ability to turn on 6 more lights at the flip of a switch. We all know what you get: better focus, more intensity, more energy, clearer views, and better discernment of colors, distances, and objects, etc. This is what I’m doing with sound. ...
tektondesign.com/company.html
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post #3 of 916 Old 03-08-2017, 06:38 PM
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Oh my.

tektondesign.com/company.html
Yeah, he lays it on a bit thick there, but every review I've read of any of his speakers has raved about them. There's a thread here nominally about the Tekton Pendragons, but towards the end there are a number of Double Impact owners involved, and they've been very impressed.
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post #4 of 916 Old 03-08-2017, 07:11 PM
 
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every review I've read of any of his speakers has raved about them.
When I see a review that's critical of anything I can die content in knowing that I really have seen it all.
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post #5 of 916 Old 03-08-2017, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
When I see a review that's critical of anything I can die content in knowing that I really have seen it all.
Well, forum members here and on various other sites have been raving at least, with one guy here mentioning he preferred them to some B&W 800 D series (I can't recall which one). Now, sure, there's likely some bias by those who have laid out the cash to want to confirm the wisdom of their purchase, but the praise seems consistent enough I've been tempted to try them myself.

It would be nice if Eric over at Tekton would post some graphs and more detailed specs though.
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post #6 of 916 Old 03-08-2017, 07:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TuteTibiImperes View Post
It would be nice if Eric over at Tekton would post some graphs and more detailed specs though.
Don't hold your breath. As for his claims, take this for instance:
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... For example: the plucked and resonating low ‘e’ note (41Hz) on a Fender Jazz bass guitar has a moving mass of 19 grams.
That's 100% Oscar Meyer baloney. I've never weighed one of my E strings, but what it weighs doesn't matter, because it's played through an amplifier and speaker. The mms of a typical electric bass driver can range from 25 grams to 140 grams. And what pray tell is the mms of a trumpet?
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post #7 of 916 Old 03-09-2017, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, admittedly, I am put off by the extravagant claims. At the same time though, it seems difficult to find a high efficiency speaker with larger drivers for this kind of money. I'm not sure why, (inexperienced opinion follows)but it seems that a lot of the sub [email protected] speakers are using 5.25"-6.25" drivers. To me, those may measure well, but they just don't have the fullness, body, or impact that a 8"-10" does. Their high efficiency and the ability to push more air seems like these could be a good speaker for double duty with HT and Music. Just a guess, but the fuller sound and ability to go lower than most speakers could be why they seem to hold their own when it comes to reviews. I'm sure that with those drivers and at that price they are not the end all be all of hifi, but I don't think they are supposed to be.

Another speaker I'm interested in is the Tyler Acoustics Halo 1 and 2. It's a fairly similar in size and drivers. Tekton's drivers are a little higher grade with the cabinets being very plain and the Tylers have nice wood veneer cabinets with cheaper drivers. Unfortunately, there are not many reviews on either.
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post #8 of 916 Old 03-09-2017, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
I've never weighed one of my E strings, but what it weighs doesn't matter, because it's played through an amplifier and speaker.
+1. As someone who has played electric bass, when I read that last week on another forum that statement jumped right out at me. You're not hearing the string.
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post #9 of 916 Old 03-09-2017, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by SmittyJS View Post
+1. As someone who has played electric bass, when I read that last week on another forum that statement jumped right out at me. You're not hearing the string.
He doesn't address the weight of the speaker driver to produce the sound of an electric bass.

This 100lb bass speaker made by Fender has 8x10" drivers.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Fender/B...ker-Cabinet.gc

Geoff A. J., California
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post #10 of 916 Old 03-09-2017, 10:36 AM
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Here is a link to the patent -- I didn't read all of it, but my eyes glazed over pretty fast and my mind started saying, "this doesn't seem very compelling...it smells like a lot of b.s. and probably should've been denied."
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post #11 of 916 Old 03-09-2017, 01:27 PM
 
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Here is a link to the patent -- I didn't read all of it, but my eyes glazed over pretty fast and my mind started saying, "this doesn't seem very compelling...it smells like a lot of b.s. and probably should've been denied."
The problem with the claims is that in order to function as it specifies each instrument being played would require its own speaker. And that means it's own separate recorded track, pre-amp, amp and so forth. And yes, it should have been denied. This is the critical claim: the mass of the moving element comprises a mass of less than twice the mass of the moving and sound generation portion of the musical instrument. In most musical instruments the moving and sound generating portion mass is extremely low. A violin string, for instance, or a saxophone reed. And what of the instruments that have no moving sound generator, like all brass instruments? Or is he referring to the player's lips? And if so how did he weigh them? Is his assistant named Igor?

The patent office will give a patent for anything, so long as the fees are paid that's all they care about. If it later comes to a legal issue with regards to infringement, they don't get involved anyway, that's a problem for the courts to deal with.

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post #12 of 916 Old 03-09-2017, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmmm, not many out there that want to speak up for Tekton?

Come on folks! I know there's some Tekton owners out there...
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post #13 of 916 Old 03-09-2017, 06:19 PM
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For that price, there are a number of proven, measured speakers to choose from: JTR 228HT, JTR 212HT, JBL 4722N, PSA 210T, etc. If you're barely handy, I'd looked at some of the DIYSG offerings, which only require the ability to glue. I own and have owned a number of speakers, including Tektons. As folks have pointed out in this thread, the company's claims appear to be pseudoscience. The patent would likely be invalidated by a court of Tekton ever tried to enforce it.
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post #14 of 916 Old 03-09-2017, 07:35 PM
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For whatever reason, I've noticed that the brand's owners thread here consists in large part of people without a lot of prior speaker ownership experience or general knowledge. I think some of them at least are drawn to the brand because they like the notion of a pair of speakers with larger drivers and more substantial bass output so that they can avoid the potential can of setup worms that subwoofers can sometimes entail.

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post #15 of 916 Old 03-10-2017, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post
For that price, there are a number of proven, measured speakers to choose from: JTR 228HT, JTR 212HT, JBL 4722N, PSA 210T, etc. If you're barely handy, I'd looked at some of the DIYSG offerings, which only require the ability to glue. I own and have owned a number of speakers, including Tektons. As folks have pointed out in this thread, the company's claims appear to be pseudoscience. The patent would likely be invalidated by a court of Tekton ever tried to enforce it.
Which Tekton's did you own?
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post #16 of 916 Old 03-10-2017, 09:15 AM
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Which Tekton's did you own?
The Lores.
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post #17 of 916 Old 03-10-2017, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
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The problem with the claims is that in order to function as it specifies each instrument being played would require its own speaker. And that means it's own separate recorded track, pre-amp, amp and so forth. And yes, it should have been denied. This is the critical claim: the mass of the moving element comprises a mass of less than twice the mass of the moving and sound generation portion of the musical instrument. In most musical instruments the moving and sound generating portion mass is extremely low. A violin string, for instance, or a saxophone reed. And what of the instruments that have no moving sound generator, like all brass instruments? Or is he referring to the player's lips? And if so how did he weigh them? Is his assistant named Igor?

The patent office will give a patent for anything, so long as the fees are paid that's all they care about. If it later comes to a legal issue with regards to infringement, they don't get involved anyway, that's a problem for the courts to deal with.
Correct.

Even assuming an upright acoustic bass is being mentioned (but, we have to guess, because the reference is unclear), it is a resonant system and the string is only part of the sound generating mechanism. The entire BODY of the instrument both vibrates sympathetically and acts a finely tuned Helmholtz resonator. This goes for any stringed instrument. Violin, viola, acoustic guitar, cello, etc.

Also, calculating the resonant air column mass and resonant cavity volume of a woodwind changes for every note, ad the air takes a different, circuitous route for most notes. Don't even mention a trombone.

I'm purely opining on the patent, as there are many satisfied owners here.
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post #18 of 916 Old 03-10-2017, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I have no idea how speakers work, but the regular Eminence drivers make me wonder how much potential these have to be good.

I'm still stuck trying to buy speakers and I'm going nuts for it. I really just want to get my setup done and start enjoying some music.
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post #19 of 916 Old 03-10-2017, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
When I see a review that's critical of anything I can die content in knowing that I really have seen it all.
That's one of the reasons the late automotive TV show Top Gear was so popular. If they thought a car was crap, they'd tell you exactly why in the same sort of language you'd hear guys discussing the same thing at the local pub/bar.
Now, if only we had an audio equivalent.
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I have no idea how speakers work, but the regular Eminence drivers make me wonder how much potential these have to be good.
Why did you think they're so inexpensive, relatively speaking? Not that there's anything wrong with Eminence drivers, but the ones used here are musical instrument/PA drivers that have high sensitivity at the expense of smooth frequency response. Rule #1 of Loudspeaker Design: There's no such thing as a free lunch.
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post #21 of 916 Old 03-10-2017, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Patent and Bold claims aside what kind performance would you expect from the Tekton Impact? Appropriate performance for the price?



A Stereophile measurement of the Enzo XL seemed to think the guy could build a good crossover and didn't seem to think some of the poorer measurements showed up as strongly in listening. They rated it a B class recommended speaker for a year or so.

I know I can't get everything I would like for this price, but if I can get a few characteristics that I like the most then that's a win.
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I'm not looking at the Enzo XL but it was one of the few reviews I could find with quality measurements on Tekton's.
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Originally Posted by Frankhenrylee View Post
Patent and Bold claims aside what kind performance would you expect from the Tekton Impact? Appropriate performance for the price?
It's probably not bad, though I'd never use a tower myself for HT.
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post #24 of 916 Old 03-11-2017, 11:40 AM
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Even if these speakers are OK for the price I always assume that companies that throw around wildly pseudo-scientific claims backed by meaningless patents are appealing to the subset of consumers who are most susceptible to such marketing nonsense. On the other hand there's another subset of consumers (to which I belong) with sensitive BS alarms that tend to go off rather loudly when reading same. I'm neither an engineer nor a scientist, but you don't really have to be as long as you maintain a healthy skepticism of all marketing claims. Given comparable product at comparable pricing I tend to go with the vendor that doesn't annoy me by triggering my BS alarm.
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Even if these speakers are OK for the price I always assume that companies that throw around wildly pseudo-scientific claims backed by meaningless patents are appealing to the subset of consumers who are most susceptible to such marketing nonsense. On the other hand there's another subset of consumers (to which I belong) with sensitive BS alarms that tend to go off rather loudly when reading same. I'm neither an engineer nor a scientist, but you don't really have to be as long as you maintain a healthy skepticism of all marketing claims. Given comparable product at comparable pricing I tend to go with the vendor that doesn't annoy me by triggering my BS alarm.
I think this is incorrect. I am strongly considering Tektons and one of the things that puts me off, along with the disorganized Tekton website and the number of online complaints (generally much older) about Tekton service is in fact the hyperbolic marketing copy. I would much prefer objective measurements and response graphs. BTW, the whole patent thing that some take offense to is relatively recent and Tekton established their rep well before it.

The reality is that, as far as I can tell, you don't read such rave reviews by owners at this price point for full range speakers, period. Is there confirmation bias, sure, but that's true for any product. Truly expensive speakers, by which I don't mean Tektons, are more often than not as much (and likely more) BS, voodoo, pseudo-science and especially snob appeal as they are good materials, craftsmanship and engineering. At least with Tekton products you would be hard pressed to make an argument value isn't part of the equation relative to many other brands, something I find sorely lacking in many cases.
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I At least with Tekton products you would be hard pressed to make an argument value isn't part of the equation relative to many other brands...
No more so than other ID companies, who also don't have the marketing and distribution costs that 'mainstream' brands do. There are plenty of those who don't have threads extending back for years devoted to how badly they screwed their customers.
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No more so than other ID companies, who also don't have the marketing and distribution costs that 'mainstream' brands do. There are plenty of those who don't have threads extending back for years devoted to how badly they screwed their customers.
Name one or two of them that have comparable raves per dollar, I'm being serious. I've spent dozens of hours researching this (again speaking only of full range in the 2-3K range) in anticipation of buying a new pair of speakers and I just haven't seen this.
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Name one or two of them that have comparable raves per dollar
JTR and Power Sound Audio. Great reviews, no complaints.
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post #29 of 916 Old 03-12-2017, 02:47 PM
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Name one or two of them that have comparable raves per dollar, I'm being serious. I've spent dozens of hours researching this (again speaking only of full range in the 2-3K range) in anticipation of buying a new pair of speakers and I just haven't seen this.

The Dennis Murphy Philharmonic Audio line is also really worth considering, especially if you're going to be 50/50 music/HT. The Philharmonic 3s can run full-range for most music without the need for a sub (and only slightly above your budget at $3,500/pair), while you'll absolutely need a sub for any of the Power Sound Audio speakers, and the JTRs that can run full-range are nearly double the price of the Tektons (though I hear they're very nice).

Of course, if you're going to be using a sub all of the time anyway, which isn't a bad way to go, that opens up a lot of possibilities.
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post #30 of 916 Old 03-12-2017, 02:58 PM
 
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you'll absolutely need a sub for any of the Power Sound Audio speakers, and the JTRs that can run full-range are nearly double the price of the Tektons
If you are to actually reach 20Hz the Tektons need subs as well. The drivers they use can't do better than -16dB at 20Hz.
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