Matching lcr and surround speaker choice - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 2Likes
  • 1 Post By gajCA
  • 1 Post By jasonsong
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 25 Old 04-05-2017, 06:13 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Matching lcr and surround speaker choice

Hi all,

Long time browser hopefully on my way to setting up my own 5.1 system with room to grow to a 7.1.

I have an opportunity to get a pair or Martin Logan SLM XL speakers and a single SLM. Was considering this set up for my LCR.

For now I have a pair of totem rainmaker I could use for surround but likely looking at replacing those quick.

All will possibly be powered with a denon x3200w.

Things I am wondering.
Would I have an issue with one SLM and two SLM XL or will it work well?

Second is there a big problem using the rainmaker as surround for now or should I immediately upgrade to a pair of ML or other brand surround speakers?

Finally is the receiver enough?..I was thinking about powering the speakers further with an Emotiva XPA 5 or 7.

Overall I'm still lost it seems and some guidance would be great.

Thank you
Gabriel
Gabrielisaac is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 25 Old 04-05-2017, 06:38 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
KidHorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Derwood, Maryland
Posts: 5,370
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1817 Post(s)
Liked: 1261
Ideally all your speakers should be from the same line, but a receiver utilizing room correction software can alleviate many of the problems with mixing and matching speakers.

I would try it out with the receiver. It you feel you need more power, then look at adding an amp.
KidHorn is offline  
post #3 of 25 Old 04-05-2017, 06:42 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jasonsong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 1,188
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Liked: 185
Matching is overated as room calibration will change how speakers sound like anyways.
Plus unless you are listening music though all speakers, there is rarely time you will notice the difference in sounds.
Even same speakers will sound different when placed in different locations in the room at different angles to the ears. The shape of your ears have already changed how the sound sounds like.
jasonsong is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 25 Old 04-05-2017, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Thank you for the quick responses.

I'll be buying the slm xls first and see how they pair with my current center channel. It's nothing to write home about but may as well see how it pairs especially if room sound calibration can help many of issues that will arise.

Awesome. The room it's going into isn't excessive in size. 15 feet by 22 feet. So further amplification can wait likely..

When it comes to subwoofers... they are something that has eluded me for a while. Any recommendations based on room size or is this something to do some research and testing based on my preferences, room size and specs?

Most of my music listening will be from a different dedicated 2 channel set up I have. A PM8005, with project debut carbon DC for records, HD-DAC1 hooked up to a computer for digitsl, and the pair of Totem Rainmakers or an older series of Tannoy Venus mark 2.
Gabrielisaac is offline  
post #5 of 25 Old 04-05-2017, 08:23 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
pase22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Montreal,Canada
Posts: 7,154
Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3292 Post(s)
Liked: 2736
You can get away with no sub in a dedicated 2 channel music, but a sub is pretty much mandatory for HT. A good sub like the SVS PB-2000, HSU VTF3-MK5 or A PSA sub would definitely enhance your HT experience. Using 2 smaller subs would also work well. Having 2 subs will even out the bass across the entire room. What level of sub you get will depend on budget and size limitations, if any.

Kef LS50,Q200C, Q100, SVS SB-2000, Denon AVR-X3400H, NAD 216, Panasonic 50" Plasma, Xbox One.
Bedroom: JBL Loft 50 , Loft 20, Bic F-12, Denon AVR-S710W, PS3, 32" Insigna LED.
pase22 is offline  
post #6 of 25 Old 04-05-2017, 08:38 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Bradford, Ontario
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 26
So your going to be using your 7.1 set-up primary for home theater since you already have a dedicated 2 channel system. In that case I wouldn't worry too much about not having matching surrounds with your fronts (LCR) speakers. The most important timbre match is with the fronts, L, C, R speakers, so those should be from the same manufacture and of the same line. Your sub can be completely different. And your surrounds can also be a different manufacturer. But since your going 7.1 I would try and keep the surround back the same with the surround.

I have a 5.1 set-up in my family room and have Bowers and Wilkins in ceiling speakers for the surrounds and KEF's for my left, right and center and a KEF sub. I haven't noticed anything off or un-natural about the mix. In home Theater your most important speakers are your center and sub.

JL Audio makes some really nice highly rated subs. Another company is Rel, they make some of the best subs out there but very expensive.

Last edited by lightsout190; 04-05-2017 at 08:42 AM.
lightsout190 is offline  
post #7 of 25 Old 04-05-2017, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightsout190 View Post
...The most important timbre match is with the fronts, L, C, R speakers, so those should be from the same manufacture and of the same line. ...
Sounds good. Makes sense.
Would you say that mixing the SLM and SLM XL would be a problem? Same line...different size.. or go for a third xl.
Gabrielisaac is offline  
post #8 of 25 Old 04-05-2017, 11:57 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gajCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 19,136
Mentioned: 224 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8961 Post(s)
Liked: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabrielisaac View Post
Sounds good. Makes sense.
Would you say that mixing the SLM and SLM XL would be a problem? Same line...different size.. or go for a third xl.
I'd go for three Martin Logan Motion 8s instead as they are heavily discounted right now, are sealed and perfect for wall mounting either vertically or horizontally, (they come with wall mounting brackets), have the same tweeter and drivers as the more expensive SLM but play lower. Very elegant and compact, just bought one as my center channel to match with my LX16s.

Crystal clear sound, $280 each at the moment so three will set you back just $840, five just $1400.

Not sure what your budget is but perhaps two smaller subs rather than one large one?

What is your sub budget?

Geoff A. J., California
gajCA is offline  
post #9 of 25 Old 04-05-2017, 12:30 PM
Senior Member
 
capo4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The 208
Posts: 264
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
I'd go for three Martin Logan Motion 8s instead as they are heavily discounted right now, are sealed and perfect for wall mounting either vertically or horizontally, (they come with wall mounting brackets), have the same tweeter and drivers as the more expensive SLM but play lower. Very elegant and compact, just bought one as my center channel to match with my LX16s.

Crystal clear sound, $280 each at the moment so three will set you back just $840, five just $1400.

Not sure what your budget is but perhaps two smaller subs rather than one large one?

What is your sub budget?
Can the Motion 8's be used as LR channels? Just looking at the pictures online, it looks like the ends might be curved which could make it difficult to stand them up vertically.

And if $280 per is a good price for the Motion 8, why not $269 each for the Chane A2.4?

Edit: I was reading this HomeTheaterShack "Shootout" last night that has me thinking the Martin Logan and Chane lines might sound somewhat similar (I don't have experience with either):

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...t-results.html

Receiver: Pioneer VSX-1022-K
Sub: SVS SB12-NSD
Fronts: Pioneer SP-BS22-LR
Center: Chane A2.4
Surrounds: Polk R15

Last edited by capo4u; 04-05-2017 at 12:34 PM.
capo4u is offline  
post #10 of 25 Old 04-05-2017, 12:52 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gajCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 19,136
Mentioned: 224 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8961 Post(s)
Liked: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by capo4u View Post
Can the Motion 8's be used as LR channels? Just looking at the pictures online, it looks like the ends might be curved which could make it difficult to stand them up vertically.

And if $280 per is a good price for the Motion 8, why not $269 each for the Chane A2.4?

Edit: I was reading this HomeTheaterShack "Shootout" last night that has me thinking the Martin Logan and Chane lines might sound somewhat similar (I don't have experience with either):

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...t-results.html
The Motion 8 can be used vertically but, no, it would have to be wall mounted.

You can get two LX16 bookshelves, (which I have), for $280 each new; they share the same tweeter as the Motion 8 and are identical to the more expensive Motion 15s that replaced them.

https://www.amazon.com/MartinLogan-L.../dp/B0061LG5H4

The Chanes look very nice as well.

You can get two A1.4 bookshelves and the A2.4 center for $248.

Geoff A. J., California
gajCA is offline  
post #11 of 25 Old 04-05-2017, 12:54 PM
Senior Member
 
capo4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The 208
Posts: 264
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
The Motion 8 can be used vertically but, no, it would have to be wall mounted.

You can get two LX16 bookshelves, (which I have), for $280 each new; they share the same tweeter as the Motion 8 and are identical to the more expensive Motion 15s that replaced them.

https://www.amazon.com/MartinLogan-L.../dp/B0061LG5H4

The Chanes look very nice as well.

You can get two A1.4 bookshelves and the A2.4 center for $248.
Ah - I glossed over the wall mounting mention in your earlier post.

Receiver: Pioneer VSX-1022-K
Sub: SVS SB12-NSD
Fronts: Pioneer SP-BS22-LR
Center: Chane A2.4
Surrounds: Polk R15
capo4u is offline  
post #12 of 25 Old 04-05-2017, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
I'd go for three Martin Logan Motion 8s instead as they are heavily discounted right now, are sealed and perfect for wall mounting either vertically or horizontally, (they come with wall mounting brackets), have the same tweeter and drivers as the more expensive SLM but play lower. Very elegant and compact, just bought one as my center channel to match with my LX16s.

Crystal clear sound, $280 each at the moment so three will set you back just $840, five just $1400.

Not sure what your budget is but perhaps two smaller subs rather than one large one?

What is your sub budget?
That sounds like a perfect set to get really....

My main reason for the SLM XL and SLM is I have an opportunity to get them at a discounted rate, and I have read some great things about them. Can get them all for a very reasonable price.
Unfortunately here in Canada the Motion 8 is still sitting around 500 ea. which is definitely comparable, but with the deal I think I may have to jump on it.

Though Motion 8s for my surrounds sounds like a good option. Especially if they have the same tweeter and drivers as the SLM series.

Budget for sub is probably around the 500-750 mark. In some friends home theater's I've been to, two subs seems to feel better to me. Though if one is what is in my budget now that is what I will go for.

Last edited by Gabrielisaac; 04-05-2017 at 03:47 PM.
Gabrielisaac is offline  
post #13 of 25 Old 04-05-2017, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabrielisaac View Post

Budget for sub is probably around the 500-750 mark. In some friends home theater's I've been to, two subs seems to feel better to me. Though if one is what is in my budget now that is what I will go for.
Maybe I'm being too tight on my budget here? this is where subs elude me a little. lots of variety out there
Gabrielisaac is offline  
post #14 of 25 Old 04-05-2017, 01:33 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gajCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 19,136
Mentioned: 224 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8961 Post(s)
Liked: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabrielisaac View Post
Maybe I'm being too tight on my budget here? this is where subs elude me a little. lots of variety out there
I didn't see that you were located in Canada so all my suggestions are out the window as those deals are in the US.

Stick to your original premise if within budget.

As to subs that is a tough one in Canada.

If your room is small to medium sized, and you are looking for a sub that has a very flat frequency response that doesn't go "boom, I'm a sub" then this might be the best one available to you.

https://www.amazon.ca/SVS-SB12-NSD-4...=svs+subwoofer

This one will play louder but with not quite the flat frequency response of the SVS.

For a large room two would sound very good.

https://www.amazon.ca/Acoustech-H-10...words=bic+h100

Geoff A. J., California
gajCA is offline  
post #15 of 25 Old 04-05-2017, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
I didn't see that you were located in Canada so all my suggestions are out the window as those deals are in the US.

Stick to your original premise if within budget.

As to subs that is a tough one in Canada.

If your room is small to medium sized, and you are looking for a sub that has a very flat frequency response that doesn't go "boom, I'm a sub" then this might be the best one available to you.

https://www.amazon.ca/SVS-SB12-NSD-4...=svs+subwoofer

This one will play louder but with not quite the flat frequency response of the SVS.

For a large room two would sound very good.

https://www.amazon.ca/Acoustech-H-10...words=bic+h100
My bad. Probably should have put that in the opening post.

Ya, I think I'm getting good value for quality. I will have to find a dealer in Toronto to sample some more ML speakers for sure.

I would say the room is Medium sized at about 15x22 feet.
Ya, I would want more flat frequency response than "HI IM A SUB". Checking out the SVS website now... seems the SB12 may be discontinued unfortunately. (wish I was in the states with the 399 price tag)

Thank you all for the responses... This has definitely been a huge help for me so far
Gabrielisaac is offline  
post #16 of 25 Old 04-05-2017, 02:14 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gajCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 19,136
Mentioned: 224 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8961 Post(s)
Liked: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabrielisaac View Post
My bad. Probably should have put that in the opening post.

Ya, I think I'm getting good value for quality. I will have to find a dealer in Toronto to sample some more ML speakers for sure.

I would say the room is Medium sized at about 15x22 feet.
Ya, I would want more flat frequency response than "HI IM A SUB". Checking out the SVS website now... seems the SB12 may be discontinued unfortunately. (wish I was in the states with the 399 price tag)

Thank you all for the responses... This has definitely been a huge help for me so far
Yes, discontinued but still available new on Amazon here and in Canadia!

Better than the SVS SB1000 which is much more expensive in your neck of the woods.

http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer...d-introduction

Geoff A. J., California
gajCA is offline  
post #17 of 25 Old 04-05-2017, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Yes, discontinued but still available new on Amazon here and in Canadia!

Better than the SVS SB1000 which is much more expensive in your neck of the woods.

http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer...d-introduction
Ah, I see the other seller now. Sweet still available yes... funny enough the seller to amazon.ca is from florida shipping it to Canada.

Haha, was just reading that exact post now.
Gabrielisaac is offline  
post #18 of 25 Old 04-05-2017, 02:25 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 11,126
Mentioned: 619 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3828 Post(s)
Liked: 3628
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonsong View Post
Matching is overated as room calibration will change how speakers sound like anyways.
Plus unless you are listening music though all speakers, there is rarely time you will notice the difference in sounds.
Even same speakers will sound different when placed in different locations in the room at different angles to the ears. The shape of your ears have already changed how the sound sounds like.
What systems have you heard with all matching speakers to arrive at your conclusion. If the answer is none, your advice on the matter is entirely void.

Ideally, in my opinion, if starting from scratch, every speaker should be identical for music or cinema.

Archaea's 9.8.4 Home Theater Room
(13) JBL CBT 70j-1 | Denon x7200wa | Sherbourn PA 7-350 amplifier | (8) Ultimax 18" sealed subwoofers | (4) iNuke DSP 6000 amplifiers | (4) MB Quart 12" subwoofers mounted direct mounted to Berkline theater chairs BOSS style | Epson 5040UB Projector | Jamestown 144" acoustic transparent 2.35:1 screen w/ Seymour XD fabric

Last edited by Archaea; 04-05-2017 at 02:28 PM.
Archaea is offline  
post #19 of 25 Old 04-05-2017, 02:29 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gajCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 19,136
Mentioned: 224 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8961 Post(s)
Liked: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
I wish this board had a thumbs down.

What systems have you heard with all matching speakers?

Ideally, in my opinion, if starting from scratch, every speaker should be identical for music or cinema.
Well I started in 5.1 surround in the dark ages of 1990 and have gone through many iterations and due to the desire for a horizontal center in my not huge room I've never had a system with all five matching...not even three matching!

Yes, I've had systems with all 5 from the same manufacturer but my current system has the front three from one manufacturer and the 2 rears from another.

Sounds great in 5.1/2.1/2.0.

Geoff A. J., California
gajCA is offline  
post #20 of 25 Old 04-05-2017, 02:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jasonsong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 1,188
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Liked: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
What systems have you heard with all matching speakers to arrive at your conclusion. If the answer is none, your advice on the matter is entirely void.

Ideally, in my opinion, if starting from scratch, every speaker should be identical for music or cinema.
Matching speaker or matching series? My current system has matching series but I find it silly to have a floor standing speaker in the middle. Maybe when I can have a dedicated room and AT screen I might run same speakers everywhere including the ceiling ones.
jasonsong is offline  
post #21 of 25 Old 04-05-2017, 02:43 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 11,126
Mentioned: 619 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3828 Post(s)
Liked: 3628
Matching speakers
Archaea is offline  
post #22 of 25 Old 04-05-2017, 02:48 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gajCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 19,136
Mentioned: 224 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8961 Post(s)
Liked: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonsong View Post
Matching speaker or matching series? My current system has matching series but I find it silly to have a floor standing speaker in the middle. Maybe when I can have a dedicated room and AT screen I might run same speakers everywhere including the ceiling ones.
In a huge room with an acoustically transparent screen with plenty of room for rear surrounds you could have identical towers all around.

But, personally, I like my rears at ear height when standing so even in a large room I'd likely not opt for 5 towers.
jasonsong likes this.

Geoff A. J., California
gajCA is offline  
post #23 of 25 Old 04-05-2017, 02:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jasonsong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 1,188
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Liked: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Matching speakers
Still matching speaker is not really necessary because in a 7.1 system, not all speakers are utilized equally. I have never had a time where a voice needs pan from across all speakers.
The other reason would be like I said practicality.
gajCA likes this.
jasonsong is offline  
post #24 of 25 Old 04-05-2017, 02:51 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jasonsong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 1,188
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Liked: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
In a huge room with an acoustically transparent screen with plenty of room for rear surrounds you could have identical towers all around.

But, personally, I like my rears at ear height when standing so even in a large room I'd likely not opt for 5 towers.
That brings up another question, same speaker at different height would also sound differently. As well as angle, and distance.
jasonsong is offline  
post #25 of 25 Old 04-06-2017, 07:47 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Bradford, Ontario
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabrielisaac View Post
Sounds good. Makes sense.
Would you say that mixing the SLM and SLM XL would be a problem? Same line...different size.. or go for a third xl.
For your fronts, keep them the same size. For surrounds you can go smaller.
lightsout190 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Tags
lcr , Martin Logan , pairing , slm , surround

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off