Apple Introduces HomePod Wireless Speaker - Page 11 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #301 of 373 Old 02-16-2018, 08:43 AM
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Apple Introduces HomePod Wireless Speaker

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Originally Posted by Pvr4Craig View Post
I think we're in a 'voice assistant bubble'. They seem cool but NONE of them is truly smart. A user must stay very close to the exact script that the assistant is programmed to recognize or the house of cards falls over. The few studies available out there show that users experiment a bit initially but then stick to the same few commands that they find will work.





https://www.highervisibility.com/res...-voice-search/



Note that Siri will handle pretty much everything on the above list...except where it involves blurting out your private information in a potentially public setting!



Also note that Voice is pretty much like a command line interface. They work very efficiently IF you've memorized all the details of the command syntax! We know what the trend has been on CLI's for the past 30 years, right?

Have you ever even used a Google Home or Alexa much? What you’re saying is very far from reality. Both do an exceptional job at responding to the ‘same’ question with a very broad range of syntax. A completely different experience from what you’re describing.

Maybe if you’ve only used Siri, yeah, it sucks. Per the CNBC review:
“and [Google Home and Alexa are] much better at natural language support -- you don't have to be very specific in your word choices to get an answer.”

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The few studies available out there show that users experiment a bit initially but then stick to the same few commands that they find will work.
Umm... no. The study shows what the most common commands are. It makes no attempt to understand why these are the most common commands. I would say these are the most common because they’re the most useful, NOT because they’re the ‘few that work’. Occam’s Razor.

Your lack of experience with the swath of voice assistants is glaringly obvious. Yeah, Siri sucks, we get it. I hate her too and much prefer Google/Amazon’s implementation. Its so much better I’ve even installed Google Assistant on my iPhone and use it frequently in the car. Now if only I could get it to pop up with the home button.
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post #302 of 373 Old 02-16-2018, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
Have you ever even used a Google Home or Alexa much? What you’re saying is very far from reality. Both do an exceptional job at responding to the ‘same’ question with a very broad range of syntax. A completely different experience from what you’re describing.

Maybe if you’ve only used Siri, yeah, it sucks. Per the CNBC review:
“and [Google Home and Alexa are] much better at natural language support -- you don't have to be very specific in your word choices to get an answer.”



Umm... no. The study shows what the most common commands are. It makes no attempt to understand why these are the most common commands. I would say these are the most common because they’re the most useful, NOT because they’re the ‘few that work’. Occam’s Razor.

Your lack of experience with the swath of voice assistants is glaringly obvious. Yeah, Siri sucks, we get it. I hate her too and much prefer Google/Amazon’s implementation. Its so much better I’ve even installed Google Assistant on my iPhone and use it frequently in the car. Now if only I could get it to pop up with the home button.
None of this is important to the die hard Apple fans... until Apple does it of course.

I will hand it to Apple, Siri on my phone, tablet, and HomePods is blisteringly fast but there is no doubt that my Home and Echo are vastly superior when it comes to voice recognition and parsing questions and commands.

Side note: I was thinking of trying out Apple Music again purely for the sake of seeing how the voice commands were and judging myself but then I remembered I would have to use iTunes on my computers and it is a horrific disaster. It is the slowest program I have ever used on PC and all my PCs are plenty fast and even on my Mac while it is a bit faster, it has all sorts of weird quirks where pages and content won't load.
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post #303 of 373 Old 02-16-2018, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
None of this is important to the die hard Apple fans... until Apple does it of course.

Why would it be important? If you are a Apple user and are deeply into their ecosystem it doesn't really make much sense to use either Amazon Alexa/Echo or Google Home/Assistant as they don't integrate with Apple and their services. Do you really think a Apple users will switch platform, services and everything just because a smart speaker and voice assistant might be better on a competing platform?
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post #304 of 373 Old 02-16-2018, 01:24 PM
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Amazon Alexa/Echo or Google Home/Assistant Do not integrate with Music Services as well as Apple devices [Homepod] do with Apple Music.

I prefer Siri to be TV only based on Apple TV and Siri to be Music only based on Homepod, in favour of Privacy and security.
I can easily speak to Apple Watch/iphone/ipad for general Siri support.
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post #305 of 373 Old 02-16-2018, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by RamGuy View Post
Why would it be important? If you are a Apple user and are deeply into their ecosystem it doesn't really make much sense to use either Amazon Alexa/Echo or Google Home/Assistant as they don't integrate with Apple and their services.
My post was a bit tongue in cheek since loyal Apple fans are great at dismissing and trying to explain away the lack of functionality of their products. I used to do the exact same when I got the original iPhone (and have owned almost every model since) and had all Macs and was only living in that ecosystem. Fortunately I got over that and love all new technology and am not afraid to draw comparisons and call out weaknesses of products I own.

My point, which I think you missed, is that if Apple ever decides to invest in improving Siri and it gets to the same level as the competition, the fans may go crazy and perhaps then realize what they are missing.

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Originally Posted by RamGuy View Post
Do you really think a Apple users will switch platform, services and everything just because a smart speaker and voice assistant might be better on a competing platform?
Nope and I never said they would. Apple fans have arguably the most intense loyalty to their brand. That said, with the HomePod, you really aren't getting that much as far as the ecosystem outside of native Apple Music, speakerphone, HomeKit, and the ability to read your latest text. It can't even tell me what is on my schedule for the day. My point being, the product doesn't go very deep into the ecosystem.
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post #306 of 373 Old 02-16-2018, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Soundizer17 View Post
Amazon Alexa/Echo or Google Home/Assistant Do not integrate with Music Services as well as Apple devices [Homepod] do with Apple Music.
How so?
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post #307 of 373 Old 02-16-2018, 02:12 PM
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My point, which I think you missed, is that if Apple ever decides to invest in improving Siri and it gets to the same level as the competition, the fans may go crazy and perhaps then realize what they are missing.
But this is the point. Its not like Apple users don't know what they are "missing", they are simply not all that interested because they are already perfectly happy within a great ecosystem. This doesn't mean Apple users won't be really happy when they finally get these features on devices that integrates into this ecosystem.

This is the same awful argument many non-Apple users use against Apple users in terms of things like AMOLED on the iPhone X. They claim Apple users didn't care at all for OLED until the iPhone X got it. Well of course they didn't, it wasn't available on any devices they found remotely interesting as getting a Samsung Galaxy S or Note device didn't make any sense at it wouldn't integrated or work within the ecosystem these users have decide to go with and are perfectly happy with. That doesn't mean they don't care for and wouldn't be happy for getting a iPhone with a OLED screen.

Its the same thing here. I have no interest in a Amazon Echo/Alexa or a Google Home/Assistant as it doesn't make any sense at it doesn't really pair with any of the other devices and the ecosystem I'm already invested and integrated it. But that doesn't mean that I wouldn't find any of the additional features and skills from Alex and Assistant great and useful.
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post #308 of 373 Old 02-16-2018, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamGuy View Post
But this is the point. Its not like Apple users don't know what they are "missing", they are simply not all that interested because they are already perfectly happy within a great ecosystem. This doesn't mean Apple users won't be really happy when they finally get these features on devices that integrates into this ecosystem.

This is the same awful argument many non-Apple users use against Apple users in terms of things like AMOLED on the iPhone X. They claim Apple users didn't care at all for OLED until the iPhone X got it. Well of course they didn't, it wasn't available on any devices they found remotely interesting as getting a Samsung Galaxy S or Note device didn't make any sense at it wouldn't integrated or work within the ecosystem these users have decide to go with and are perfectly happy with. That doesn't mean they don't care for and wouldn't be happy for getting a iPhone with a OLED screen.

Its the same thing here. I have no interest in a Amazon Echo/Alexa or a Google Home/Assistant as it doesn't make any sense at it doesn't really pair with any of the other devices and the ecosystem I'm already invested and integrated it. But that doesn't mean that I wouldn't find any of the additional features and skills from Alex and Assistant great and useful.
Yup, we're saying the same thing, ignorance is bliss.

Oh and both the Home and Echo can act as Bluetooth speakers so you could use Apple Music there. The only thing you'd be missing at the point is reading your latest text and voice control for Apple Music (which you could still do from your iPhone or iPad).
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post #309 of 373 Old 02-16-2018, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamGuy View Post
...
EDIT: Another key aspect with the HomePod is how it sounds from different directions? Putting people blindfolded right in front of the speakers puts the HomePod at a disadvantage as this is not its ideal setting....
Only if you place the Home Pod smack in the middle of the room and circle around it.... But most people place their speaker(s) along a wall and much of the sound one hears is reflection. Google specifically mentions that it uses the always on microphones on the Home Max to continuously adjust for such reflections. My guess is that Apple does something similar. It would also appear that neither equalizes the lower frequencies much, since many of the reviews for both mention boomy bass.

I am also surprised by the preference for the Sonos One, as I've never been much enamoured with their sound, but perhaps the mids of the smaller (and much cheaper) Sonos make up for it's relative lack of bass, or its bass is simply better controlled.



Quote:
Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
Pandora has nowhere close to 80 million paid subscribers, which is what we're talking about with Apple Music and Spotify.
...
... My guess is that millions of Apple Music users will be more then happy to add another Apple product to their home that works natively in the Apple ecosystem without having to use an additional app.

As for the pair of Sonos Ones being better for "most" users, it depends on where they place the speakers and how they use them. ...
Why did I bring it up? I described how I use the Homepod and that I don't need it for home automation.



Wow! Crestron, Lutron and the others ARE the institutional and commercial market. It's not a matter of them "surviving for a bit longer".
...

There are over 2.3 million homes in the US that are worth over a million dollars, and that number is growing rapidly. There will always be a need for high-end home automation that's extremely reliable, fully customizable, doesn't require constant user interaction, and has the look and finish options to match.

You do realize that you can use Google and Alexa with almost all of them? It doesn't change the need for a quality and robust underlining automation system.
I am not sure what is the point of discussing Apple's marketing strategy, or whether Pandora's 80 million subscribers are paying or not (Pandora has been getting most of its revenue from ad sales, so in effect, even the free accounts bring in revenue).

The subject here is the Home Pod on its own merits, and my whole point is that the absurd pronouncements about its sound quality are not reflected in reputable reviews or the blind tests conducted by The Washington Post and David Pogue. Add to this the limited Siri implementation and incompatibility with the major streaming services, and yes, it is a niche market.

You are also making conflicting "real" automation arguments. I am only familiar with Crestron and their very recent Google Assistant integration is way dumber than even the Home Pod's Siri: it allows only basic lights control, which is a major step down for anyone with smart light bulbs and an Alexa or Google Home. Which is kind of my point why AI automation will eventually replace these proprietary systems....

Moreover, "million dollar homes" are the norm in parts of the country, and in most you are more likely to find whole-house audio systems than Crestron automation. To boot, the Crestron app natively supports Sonos, but not the Home Pod, so I am at a loss as to why you think that all these "real automation" owners will flock to the Home Pod, instead of to Sonos.

For the record, I am an Apple fan and own more Apple products than most. I would be a prime audience for the Home Pod, but it just doesn't check the minimum functionality boxes I expect. And I am reacting mostly to the hyperbole about the sound quality, which is soaring a bit too high.

I'll give this a rest now. Cheers.

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post #310 of 373 Old 02-16-2018, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan1 View Post

The subject here is the Home Pod on its own merits, and my whole point is that the absurd pronouncements about its sound quality are not reflected in reputable reviews or the blind tests conducted by The Washington Post and David Pogue.
Cherry picking reviews goes both ways. Some people will like it/think it's the best, others will prefer other products. There's nothing absurd about that.


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You are also making conflicting "real" automation arguments. I am only familiar with Crestron and their very recent Google Assistant integration is way dumber than even the Home Pod's Siri: it allows only basic lights control, which is a major step down for anyone with smart light bulbs and an Alexa or Google Home. Which is kind of my point why AI automation will eventually replace these proprietary systems....

Moreover, "million dollar homes" are the norm in parts of the country, and in most you are more likely to find whole-house audio systems than Crestron automation. To boot, the Crestron app natively supports Sonos, but not the Home Pod, so I am at a loss as to why you think that all these "real automation" owners will flock to the Home Pod, instead of to Sonos.
You're at a loss because I never said or argued that :-)

My initial comment about "real" home automation was only related to how I use the Homepod, that's it. You took issue with it and started talking about the inevitable demise of these companies. That discussion is entirely separate from the Homepod.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan1 View Post
For the record, I am an Apple fan and own more Apple products than most. I would be a prime audience for the Home Pod, but it just doesn't check the minimum functionality boxes I expect. And I am reacting mostly to the hyperbole about the sound quality, which is soaring a bit too high.

I'll give this a rest now. Cheers.
That's funny. Coincidentally, I'm only bothering to comment because of the inevitability of an Apple thread devolving into name calling anyone who finds value or likes it ignorant, Apple fans or fanboys, and on and on.

Like all brands or products, some people will find value in and some won't. Apple draws a lot of negativity to any discussion involving them or their products. When you're popular and at the top, that's what happens, especially if you're not the cheapest option. If they were a tiny company, no one would care.

Personally, I couldn't care less about how other people choose to spend their money. I just get a bit tired from all the Apple drama and people being negative just for the sake of it, or they feel apple is overrated/doesn't deserve to be so popular. It's easy to tear something down. I should know, I do it way more then I should.

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post #311 of 373 Old 02-17-2018, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Yup, we're saying the same thing, ignorance is bliss.

Oh and both the Home and Echo can act as Bluetooth speakers so you could use Apple Music there. The only thing you'd be missing at the point is reading your latest text and voice control for Apple Music (which you could still do from your iPhone or iPad).
Bluetooth? Degrading audio quality, limited range and having to pair in order to use? No thanks. I'm looking at the HomePod mainly as a music speaker and I'm eager to compare it with my Sonos speakers.
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post #312 of 373 Old 02-17-2018, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
Have you ever even used a Google Home or Alexa much?
...
Your lack of experience with the swath of voice assistants is glaringly obvious. Yeah, Siri sucks, we get it. I hate her too and much prefer Google/Amazon’s implementation. Its so much better I’ve even installed Google Assistant on my iPhone and use it frequently in the car. Now if only I could get it to pop up with the home button.
The thing is...Siri DOESN'T suck for me. I use Siri multiple times every day. Timers, reminders, shopping list, messaging, controlling Homekit stuff. I seldom have a failure.

And, no, I don't have other voice assistants in my house. I value my privacy more than that. I don't trust either Google or Amazon with a microphone in my house. AND, it is not like the other voice assistants are infallible. The following article addresses both those issues:

https://gizmodo.com/the-house-that-s...-me-1822429852

Quote:
What our experiment told us is that all the connected devices constantly phone home to their manufacturers. You won’t be aware these conversations are happening unless you’re technically savvy and monitoring your router like we did. And even if you are, because the conversations are usually encrypted, you won’t be able to see what your belongings are saying. When you buy a smart device, it doesn’t just belong to you; you share custody with the company that made it.
[emphasis added]

Examples of Alexa problems:
Quote:
Behmor, which makes incredible coffee but had a prickly relationship with Alexa. Each morning, my husband and I begged Alexa to put the coffee on. She would only react to a very specific phrasing of the request and then would only do so sometimes.
Quote:
It took at least two hours to get all of our Christmas lights plugged into smart plugs from WeMo and Sonoff, and then to get those plugs online with their apps, and then to get those apps to talk to the Alexa app. The first night I said, “Alexa, turn on the Christmas lights,” they all turned on in sparkly synchronicity and it was magical. But one day, Alexa stopped recognizing “Christmas lights” as a group, and I could not figure out how to fix it, so I had to ask Alexa each night to turn off the lights one-by-one.
If Siri is balky sometimes, she is not the only one. And Apple's privacy and security ethos puts the others to shame.

Craig
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post #313 of 373 Old 02-17-2018, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan1 View Post
Only if you place the Home Pod smack in the middle of the room and circle around it.... But most people place their speaker(s) along a wall and much of the sound one hears is reflection. Google specifically mentions that it uses the always on microphones on the Home Max to continuously adjust for such reflections. My guess is that Apple does something similar. It would also appear that neither equalizes the lower frequencies much, since many of the reviews for both mention boomy bass.

I am also surprised by the preference for the Sonos One, as I've never been much enamoured with their sound, but perhaps the mids of the smaller (and much cheaper) Sonos make up for it's relative lack of bass, or its bass is simply better controlled.
...
Let's back up a bit. Google Home Max has 2 woofers and 2 tweeters. Can anyone point out a reference that says how many amplifiers it has? Google's "Tech Specs' page is remarkably devoid of any actual information:

https://store.google.com/us/product/...home_max_specs

I think if it had even 4 amps, they'd be touting that fact. Presumably it has 2 amps, simple left and right separated by...a couple of inches.

Google's "Smart Sound" applies equalization to try to keep the bass from overpowering the rest of the sound. Most of the reviews and comparisons suggest that this isn't very successful. Google's video says it recalculates this EQ _when the speaker is moved_.

As we've already established, the HomePod has 7 tweeters, each is driven by its own amplifier. With the woofer, the HomePod has 8 (eight) channels of output. Apple says

Quote:
We completely reimagined how music should sound in the home. HomePod combines Apple-engineered audio technology and advanced software to deliver the highest-fidelity sound throughout the room, anywhere it’s placed.
...
HomePod has a unique array of seven beamforming tweeters. Each with its own amplifier and transducer. And each custom designed with a precision acoustic horn that focuses sound for tremendous directional control. Creating an all-encompassing sense of space — and consistent, high-fidelity audio everywhere in the room.
https://www.apple.com/homepod/

HomePod takes a 2-channel digital stream and, in near-real-time, manufactures 8 channel output using a live acoustic model of the room for a room-wide soundstage. (In a $350 device.) This is some kick-ass innovation that has gone largely unnoticed.

HomePod is clearly doing a couple (several?) orders of magnitude more DSP than the other smart speakers out there.

Note that Apple has applied for at least one patent ("global equalization for a driver to produce a more balanced frequency response responsive to the environment in which the loudspeaker system is placed") that appear to be related:



http://www.patentlyapple.com/patentl...r-homepod.html

Audiophiles sweat all the details to create a single sweet spot in their dedicated listening room. HomePod (in its first generation) is attempting to make _any_ room sound good; _anywhere_ in that room. And to a lot of ears, it seems to have succeeded pretty well.

Craig
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Have you heard a homepod for yourself yet?
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post #315 of 373 Old 02-17-2018, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamGuy View Post
Why would it be important? If you are a Apple user and are deeply into their ecosystem it doesn't really make much sense to use either Amazon Alexa/Echo or Google Home/Assistant as they don't integrate with Apple and their services. Do you really think a Apple users will switch platform, services and everything just because a smart speaker and voice assistant might be better on a competing platform?
Yes, because you don’t have to switch platforms. Ive got Apple everything, including multiple tv’s, plus an echo. Much of my echo use doesn’t require integration anyway. I don’t need it for a timer or to ask how many teaspoons in a tablespoon. The parts I do use integration for are 3rd party, alarm system, sonos, anylist. Those aren’t compromises. They’re apps I was using anyway. I don’t doubt the HomePod will integrate better, but it probably isn’t all that significant for a casual smart speaker user. There certainly isn’t a wall between the echo and Apple products.
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post #316 of 373 Old 02-17-2018, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by RamGuy View Post
Bluetooth? Degrading audio quality, limited range and having to pair in order to use? No thanks. I'm looking at the HomePod mainly as a music speaker and I'm eager to compare it with my Sonos speakers.
True, I was definitely disappointed in the quality hit on my BT headphones going from my Note 8 to my iPhone X since Apple refuses to use aptX.

An interesting pattern is it seems the people defending the HomePod the most in this thread may not even own them.

It’s a fine product, just very shallow and highly limited. I can’t even get either of mine to read or send texts, just get errors that I need to authenticate even though I have authentication disabled. Also ran into the setup error with the white screen the first day but it went away so it may have been server side.

Anyway, looking forward to it getting closer to a finished product.
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post #317 of 373 Old 02-17-2018, 08:02 PM
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I really like how some folks are saying things like "A couple of reviews found the Sonos ONE to sound better than the HomePod".

Really, a "couple of reviews"? Well what about the OVERWHELMING number of reviews that found the opposite? I've read every review I can find and the VAST majority of them stated HomePod sounds better than Sonos ONE. Yet, somehow, to the folks with their "couple of reviews" it apparently means the MAJORITY of reviews are wrong.

I've listened a fair bit to Sonos Play:1 and Sonos ONE. There is no freaking contest, the HomePod has vastly better sound. Even my Sonos-loving friend (who was at my house messing around with my HomePod again today) agrees that HomePod sounds better. He thinks the HomePod is equal to at least the Sonos Play:3 if not better. This is a guy that listens to Sonos speakers every single day for years.

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post #318 of 373 Old 02-17-2018, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Do you have any proof of that outside of Apple marketing or are you just making the assumption that is "goes way beyond" because Apple said so and it has an iPhone 6 SoC in it?

The HomePod sounds nice from many different angles but in neither of my rooms would I consider there to be much of a "soundstage", let alone a sweet spot in the traditional sense.

I even tested it sitting in the front and center wall of my living room where it used my TV as a back wall. For it's size, it sounds fantastic, especially the bass it outputs seems almost impossible for its size but I still don't hear much of a soundstage as it still sounds like everything is coming from a small speaker in the center front of the room. (Even more so in my kitchen and in the other room in less optimal placement.)

It does do a great job at not having a sweet spot where I can freely walk around the room and listen at various angles with minimal impact to sound quality.



A lot of people on the MacRumors forum kept repeating this same thing, except they didn't put it in an anechoic chamber. The room had sound dampening panels everywhere but it sat among all the other speakers they were testing in the same environment.

It is also a strange argument that people have tried to make saying the HomePod needs an acoustically poor environment to slap a ton of DSP on top to sound the best.



Has there been any tests showing that the HomePod hears better than the competition?

To be honest, I could count on one hand the number of times my Home and Echo have failed to hear me while sound is playing from them over the years.

That said, the HomePod is capable of much better and louder sound and it does do a great job and hearing through its own output
My HomePod sounds very good in my untreated living room/dining room and kitchen. I put it in my highly treated gameroom and it sounded horrendous. So bad that I was considering taking it back. Brought it back to the living room and am happy with it again using it for background music
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post #319 of 373 Old 02-18-2018, 06:30 AM
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True, I was definitely disappointed in the quality hit on my BT headphones going from my Note 8 to my iPhone X since Apple refuses to use aptX.

An interesting pattern is it seems the people defending the HomePod the most in this thread may not even own them.

It’s a fine product, just very shallow and highly limited. I can’t even get either of mine to read or send texts, just get errors that I need to authenticate even though I have authentication disabled. Also ran into the setup error with the white screen the first day but it went away so it may have been server side.

Anyway, looking forward to it getting closer to a finished product.

I bet most people here do not own and have never listened to a HomePod in any meaningful scenario. This is not all that uncommon, its a brand new product released in a very limited amount of countries. People argue in both directions based on what they feel about the products technical specifications and feature-set/limitations.

When it comes to bluetooth headphones its a different situation as it something I use during commutes and situations where audio quality is not always on the top of the priority list. Convenience tends to trumf audio quality when I'm "on-the-go" and during my commute its not the ideal situation for perfect audio quality due to the sheer amount of noise and whatnot interfering with the experience.

And in terms of audio quality there is nothing saying that APTX will always give you better audio quality compared to AAC. If you use Apple Music for instance you will stream 256kbps AAC without the need of re-encoding the audio stream which should be better compared to using higher bitrate APTX as APTX would still require you to re-encode the already lossy audio stream which is never a good thing to do in terms of audio quality. If you are using Spotify using 320 kbps OGG Vorbis on the other hand you will of course have a higher chance of not limiting the quality by converting to 576 kbps (APTX HD) or 384kbps (APTX) compared to 256 kbps AAC but there is still nothing that can guarantee you better audio quality in the end.

In the long run you will always be better off with using Apple Music with its 256kbps AAC using Bluetooth AAC as there is no re-encoding so you get the 256kbps AAC playback untouched compared to any use of APTX as no audio streaming service offers music encoded with APTX so you will always have to do a re-encode of the audio and that can never improve the already lossy encoding and will most likely reduce it further.
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True, I was definitely disappointed in the quality hit on my BT headphones going from my Note 8 to my iPhone X since Apple refuses to use aptX.

An interesting pattern is it seems the people defending the HomePod the most in this thread may not even own them.

It’s a fine product, just very shallow and highly limited. I can’t even get either of mine to read or send texts, just get errors that I need to authenticate even though I have authentication disabled. Also ran into the setup error with the white screen the first day but it went away so it may have been server side.

Anyway, looking forward to it getting closer to a finished product.
Apple AAC offers the same quality level as AptX, this is not the issue.
However I am disappointed Apple has not implemented anything better to compete with AptX HD or Sony LDAC which are both closer to lossless. Any way on the positive side Airplay uses wireless and is as good or if not better than AptX HD/LDAX, this makes sense as you use it in a wifi network anyway.
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My HomePod sounds very good in my untreated living room/dining room and kitchen. I put it in my highly treated gameroom and it sounded horrendous. So bad that I was considering taking it back. Brought it back to the living room and am happy with it again using it for background music
Was there any difference in the surface it was sitting on or the height? The other day I was thinking of putting one on a shelf then remembered it wouldn't be large enough for the tweeters to reflect off the surface.

One of mine is in front of a thick curtain and while it makes it sound a bit smaller, it hasn't heavily impacted the sound.

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Apple AAC offers the same quality level as AptX, this is not the issue.
However I am disappointed Apple has not implemented anything better to compete with AptX HD or Sony LDAC which are both closer to lossless. Any way on the positive side Airplay uses wireless and is as good or if not better than AptX HD/LDAX, this makes sense as you use it in a wifi network anyway.
There are so few headphone out there that support AAC which is unfortunate.

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I bet most people here do not own and have never listened to a HomePod in any meaningful scenario. This is not all that uncommon, its a brand new product released in a very limited amount of countries. People argue in both directions based on what they feel about the products technical specifications and feature-set/limitations.
Anyway, just trying to be realistic about the HomePod if there are potential buyers out there because the tendency for Apple fans to paint them as all sunshine and rainbows and downplay limitations is common.
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post #322 of 373 Old 02-18-2018, 10:02 AM
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^^^^^

Mostly anywhere I tried it in my game room it sounded bad. I have 6 inch thick sound panels all over the room. I tried to on a stand and on the floor. Sounded equally bad.
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post #323 of 373 Old 02-18-2018, 10:16 AM
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^^^^^

Mostly anywhere I tried it in my game room it sounded bad. I have 6 inch thick sound panels all over the room. I tried to on a stand and on the floor. Sounded equally bad.
If the floor is carpeted and the stand didn't have surface area around the HomePod for the tweeters to reflect, it will definitely sound bad.
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post #324 of 373 Old 02-18-2018, 11:12 AM
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If the floor is carpeted and the stand didn't have surface area around the HomePod for the tweeters to reflect, it will definitely sound bad.
Hard style carpet and stand had 6 or more feet around it. Sound panels sucked up all of the sound that would have reflected.
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post #325 of 373 Old 02-18-2018, 12:09 PM
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Hard style carpet and stand had 6 or more feet around it. Sound panels sucked up all of the sound that would have reflected.
The stand had six feet of horizontal hard surface under the HomePod for the tweeters to reflect? That’s like a massive coffee table if so. The tweeters need a hard surface under the HomePod because they fire down at the base then reflect up.
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post #326 of 373 Old 02-18-2018, 12:19 PM
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The stand had six feet of horizontal hard surface under the HomePod for the tweeters to reflect? That’s like a massive coffee table if so. The tweeters need a hard surface under the HomePod because they fire down at the base then reflect up.
The tweeters fire up.

The carpet is Berber It was 6 feet from any wall. It is under horrible. Same stand in a non treated room it sounds great.
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post #327 of 373 Old 02-18-2018, 12:21 PM
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The tweeters fire up.

The carpet is Berber It was 6 feet from any wall. It is under horrible. Same stand in a non treated room it sounds great.
They do not, they fire down.

Anyway you ruled out your 6ft stand.
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post #328 of 373 Old 02-18-2018, 12:32 PM
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They do not, they fire down.

Anyway you ruled out your 6ft stand.
I read a review where I swear they said the tweeters fire up - will have to look for it - they may have been wrong.

Ugh.....the stand is not 6 ft tall. It is 30ish inch tall stand. There was 6 ft of horizontal space around the HomePod before the sound hit an object.

The fact remains the HomePod sounds like crap in my treated room and sounds great in an untreated room on the same stand. Not sure why you are trying so hard to defend it.


Edit - clearly the sound of the tweeters is coming from the bottom when I pick it up and listen. The reviewer must have said sound reflects up from the bottom or something and I read it wrong.

The base of the stand is about 10in x 10in so there is plenty of area for it to reflect up.

Last edited by raynist; 02-18-2018 at 12:36 PM.
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post #329 of 373 Old 02-18-2018, 01:25 PM
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I read a review where I swear they said the tweeters fire up - will have to look for it - they may have been wrong.

Ugh.....the stand is not 6 ft tall. It is 30ish inch tall stand. There was 6 ft of horizontal space around the HomePod before the sound hit an object.

The fact remains the HomePod sounds like crap in my treated room and sounds great in an untreated room on the same stand. Not sure why you are trying so hard to defend it.


Edit - clearly the sound of the tweeters is coming from the bottom when I pick it up and listen. The reviewer must have said sound reflects up from the bottom or something and I read it wrong.

The base of the stand is about 10in x 10in so there is plenty of area for it to reflect up.
I was just joking with you about the stand.
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post #330 of 373 Old 02-18-2018, 01:40 PM
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i was just joking with you about the stand.
lol
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