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post #1 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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My Wife Hates Speakers

My wife and I are in the process of renovating our new house (to studs) and I am working with her on our living room. This is going to be the main HT space, but my wife has an aversion to speakers and TVs that are visible. We already have a vinyl 2.0 setup that has floor standing speakers that are in front of the TV.

See attached for the living room plan (1/4"=1')and the proposed TV elevation. Note the cabinet has the turntable and vinyl tube amp on top of it and the floor standing speakers next to it. This is on the wall where the stairs are. The sub will be located on the far wall in that cabinet.

Our HT guy (who is really a security guy) proposes the following equipment (with costs):
  • 1 Proficient C1-AW525BLK 5.25” Bookshelf Speaker Blk (pair) $250.00
  • 1 Proficient C1-CC400 Center Channel Speaker $150.00
  • 1 Proficient C1-FS10 Dual 10” Powered Subwoofer 250 watts $325.00
  • 2 Proficient C1-C661 6.5” Graphite LCR Ceiling Speakers (Rear Channels) $390.00
  • 1 Sony T7-STRDH550 5.1 Surround Amplifier with 4K pass through $250.00

My thoughts are that (i) we can put better in-wall speakers (martin logan or RBH) or (ii) put better bookshelf and center channel in the cabinet (ascend seirra 1, cambridge, svs, etc.). I don't think the wife will go for the in-wall, but our builder said we could possibly use a felt or fabric to cover the entire wall so it is 100% concealed. Alternatively, we can put in the cabinet and put fabric/felt in front of that to conceal.

My question for y'all is - what are you thoughts on equipment and setup/positioning. I doubt we'll have the front sound stage rocking w/ the turntable going so I don't think vibration would be a big issue. Also, I'm fine spending a bit more $$ but we have to work with the constraints of (i) hidden speakers, (ii) sub in back cabinet (or hidden under a couch?) and (iii) ceiling surrounds.

FWIW, my guy is proposing proficient (mix of 6.5" and 8" pairs) + nuvo 3 zone IOS control amps for the rest of the house. Seems "ok" to me for just background music. Wouldn't mind integrating the zoned speakers with the HTs for when we want to rock out...

Thanks for any input!!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 1642 Nob Hill-Living Room Plan.pdf (5.0 KB, 120 views)
File Type: pdf 1642 Nob Hill-Living Room TV Wall.pdf (2.4 KB, 63 views)

Last edited by DoubleHorn; 06-21-2017 at 08:29 AM.
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post #2 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 09:14 AM
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Never heard of this "Proficient" brand.

I would generally advise AGAINST buying anything from an installer. They tend to sell whatever gives THEM the best profit margins, rather than whatever is in YOUR best interests.

Much better to do your own homework and use a forum like this to help pick out your own gear, then pay the installer strictly for labor (buy the speaker cables and interconnects yourself, never from him) if needed only.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #3 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 09:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Never heard of this "Proficient" brand.
It's a cheap Asian import sold wholesale only. Installers love brands like this because you can't compare what they're charging you to what they sell for elsewhere. Not quite White Van, but close.
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post #4 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
It's a cheap Asian import sold wholesale only. Installers love brands like this because you can't compare what they're charging you to what they sell for elsewhere. Not quite White Van, but close.
Ah, I was thinking that too.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #5 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 09:54 AM
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IMO, you stand a much better chance of getting decent quality sound by putting the speakers in the cabinet. Sierra 1's definately wouldn't be a bad choice.
I would pass on the proposed proficient package.

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post #6 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 10:07 AM
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My wife hates speakers, amps, pre/pros, CD players, BR players, loud music, moderately loud music, any music at all, avsforum and generally anything NOT from Ethan Allen.

Although, she is a good sport and tolerates it all very well. Although I do hear comment how any speaker I've ever had has "completely ruined the one room in the house I want to look perfect." At least I didn't put the JTR 215RT's in the family room.
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post #7 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
It's a cheap Asian import sold wholesale only. Installers love brands like this because you can't compare what they're charging you to what they sell for elsewhere. Not quite White Van, but close.
I've seen them listed on Craiglist before. Seemed like an odd brand to me at the time... but it didn't seem out of place with other CL oddball brands.
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post #8 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 10:11 AM
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Go Yamaha or Denon on the receiver -- I would skip the Proficient speakers
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post #9 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleHorn View Post
Our HT guy (who is really a security guy) proposes the following equipment (with costs):

Thanks for any input!!
I guess my first question is how comfortable are you in taking audio advice from a security installer?

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post #10 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleHorn View Post
My wife and I are in the process of renovating our new house (to studs) and I am working with her on our living room. This is going to be the main HT space, but my wife has an aversion to speakers and TVs that are visible. We already have a vinyl 2.0 setup that has floor standing speakers that are in front of the TV.

See attached for the living room plan (1/4"=1')and the proposed TV elevation. Note the cabinet has the turntable and vinyl tube amp on top of it and the floor standing speakers next to it. This is on the wall where the stairs are. The sub will be located on the far wall in that cabinet.


Thanks for any input!!
As others have said skip the Proficient brand speakers, if no one hear has heard of them it is probably for a good reason lol. Ok so the real issue is the wife and her aversion to speakers. Have you considered letting her look at different speakers, from a visual point of view, and find a design or style she is say more comfortable with and then using that as a jump off point to find a decent sounding speaker? Secondly would you or her be adverse to say a dual use design. What I mean is say find some mid size tower speakers or bookshelves with a stand, and then build a hiding spot with AT, acoustically transparent, fabric on the front so you can still have good sounding speakers but they are out of sight out of mind. You could use the hiding spots as a place to put a vase or lamp or something. Same thing can be done with a sub if you handy, build an end table with a down firing sub inside. I think most people here tend to dislike in wall speakers but maybe you can come up with a compromise. This site has some neat ideas of ways to still have good speakers but they are out of sight when not in use

https://www.houzz.com/hide-speakers
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post #11 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 10:28 AM
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Your wife hates speakers but is opposed to in walls? Usually the opposite...in any event research and buy your own gear. What do you really need this guy for if you choose freestanding speakers?

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post #12 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 10:32 AM
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I may have missed your budget but you should check out Sonance theater in-walls. They have a few versions that are nearly invisible as well as some that are truly part of the wall, absolutely invisible.

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post #13 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all of the thoughtful replies.

Budget is a moving target. I'm "ok" spending $2-2.5k for the 5.1 speakers + amp (current Proficient/Sony spec is $1,365). I'm fairly certain given the wife's desire for a wood veneer wall behind the TV we'll have to hide the front sound stage in the cabinet.

Also open to input from the group re: the zone speakers. Currently spec'd per below list. Key is the ceiling speakers need to be clean.
  • 5 Proficient C1-C612 6.5” Poly Ceiling Speakers (pair) $175.00 $875.00
  • 2 Proficient C1-C801 8” 150W Graphite Ceiling Speakers (pair) $365.00 $730.00
  • 6 Proficient C1-PCBC600 Pre Construction Bracket for 6.5” Speaker $30.00 $180.00
  • 2 Proficient C1-PCBC800 Pre Construction Bracket for 8” Speaker $30.00 $60.00
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post #14 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 11:10 AM
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Is there another room in the house you can take over for home theater and speakers?
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post #15 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 11:17 AM
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As Ack suggests, your situation is the ONE case where a cheap satelite system for the living room...small speaker, just better than TV speakers, but small and unassuming, in the living. And then WHATEVER THE HELL YOU WANT in another room! HT, well best done in a room that looks like a theater!
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post #16 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 11:18 AM
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If they are stand-alone speakers then yah, take all the advice here and take the time to research them better.

My wife is very tolerant, and even encouraging, of my audio stuff. One reason I married her, didn't want fundamental problems on one of the more important things in my life (we are both musicians so that helped). I suppose there's always www.RussianBabesLuvUrStereo.com
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post #17 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post
Is there another room in the house you can take over for home theater and speakers?
unfortunately not. so it's a compromise at the end of the day.
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post #18 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
As Ack suggests, your situation is the ONE case where a cheap satelite system for the living room...small speaker, just better than TV speakers, but small and unassuming, in the living. And then WHATEVER THE HELL YOU WANT in another room! HT, well best done in a room that looks like a theater!
The house just doesn't have the layout for it. It's a bad ass floor plan, but for the lack of a proper HT room.
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post #19 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post
Is there another room in the house you can take over for home theater and speakers?
I was thinking 20.7 Magnepans and a new wife...but your idea is probably better.
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post #20 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleHorn View Post
My wife and I are in the process of renovating our new house (to studs) and I am working with her on our living room. This is going to be the main HT space, but my wife has an aversion to speakers and TVs that are visible. We already have a vinyl 2.0 setup that has floor standing speakers that are in front of the TV.

See attached for the living room plan (1/4"=1')and the proposed TV elevation. Note the cabinet has the turntable and vinyl tube amp on top of it and the floor standing speakers next to it. This is on the wall where the stairs are. The sub will be located on the far wall in that cabinet.

Our HT guy (who is really a security guy) proposes the following equipment (with costs):
  • 1 Proficient C1-AW525BLK 5.25” Bookshelf Speaker Blk (pair) $250.00
  • 1 Proficient C1-CC400 Center Channel Speaker $150.00
  • 1 Proficient C1-FS10 Dual 10” Powered Subwoofer 250 watts $325.00
  • 2 Proficient C1-C661 6.5” Graphite LCR Ceiling Speakers (Rear Channels) $390.00
  • 1 Sony T7-STRDH550 5.1 Surround Amplifier with 4K pass through $250.00

My thoughts are that (i) we can put better in-wall speakers (martin logan or RBH) or (ii) put better bookshelf and center channel in the cabinet (ascend seirra 1, cambridge, svs, etc.). I don't think the wife will go for the in-wall, but our builder said we could possibly use a felt or fabric to cover the entire wall so it is 100% concealed. Alternatively, we can put in the cabinet and put fabric/felt in front of that to conceal.

My question for y'all is - what are you thoughts on equipment and setup/positioning. I doubt we'll have the front sound stage rocking w/ the turntable going so I don't think vibration would be a big issue. Also, I'm fine spending a bit more $$ but we have to work with the constraints of (i) hidden speakers, (ii) sub in back cabinet (or hidden under a couch?) and (iii) ceiling surrounds.

FWIW, my guy is proposing proficient (mix of 6.5" and 8" pairs) + nuvo 3 zone IOS control amps for the rest of the house. Seems "ok" to me for just background music. Wouldn't mind integrating the zoned speakers with the HTs for when we want to rock out...

Thanks for any input!!
I'm gonna stir the pot for a good laugh

Don't listen to these guys....Proficient won my 10 speaker shootout. I talked with the manufacturer and I believed him so kept the Proficient speakers for the heck of it. Love them.
Clear, detail, big stage, great imaging
Proficients CEO's visits these boards as @Zorba922

Much better than SVS Ultra's, HSU CBB-8s, Sierra2s
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post #21 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleHorn View Post
My question for y'all is - what are you thoughts on equipment and setup/positioning. I doubt we'll have the front sound stage rocking w/ the turntable going so I don't think vibration would be a big issue. Also, I'm fine spending a bit more $$ but we have to work with the constraints of (i) hidden speakers, (ii) sub in back cabinet (or hidden under a couch?) and (iii) ceiling surrounds.

FWIW, my guy is proposing proficient (mix of 6.5" and 8" pairs) + nuvo 3 zone IOS control amps for the rest of the house. Seems "ok" to me for just background music. Wouldn't mind integrating the zoned speakers with the HTs for when we want to rock out...

Thanks for any input!!
I would just talk to HTD.

They have some excellent products and free support including whole house audio.

http://www.htd.com/

Do NOT buy the brand your "installer" recommends.
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post #22 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 11:45 AM
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So let assume, because WAF is influencing the decision you need:
1. Really nice looking speakers- still lots of variable, for instance, sometimes the lady will want white to match some decor/theme. or real wood look. of gloss black (rare)
2. Speakers that aren't huge.
I would say you would want at least a 5.5 or 6 inch driver...I would show her speakers from EMP, Kef, Wharfdale and HTD...those speakers can sometime get on the ladies good side. Probably no way you are going to get Bic, Chane, Klipsch, most Polk speaker by that filter...

Set up #1: EMP e5Ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, SVS NSD SB12 sub, Integra AV receiver
Set up #2: Def Tech CA Aero 2, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and EMPtek10i10i sub, Slimline AV receiver
Set up #3: Philharmonics- BMR in a 2.0 system, music only, Integra AV receiver
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post #23 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I'm gonna stir the pot for a good laugh

Don't listen to these guys....Proficient won my 10 speaker shootout. I talked with the manufacturer and I believed him so kept the Proficient speakers for the heck of it. Love them.
Clear, detail, big stage, great imaging
Proficients CEO's visits these boards as @Zorba922

Much better than SVS Ultra's, HSU CBB-8s, Sierra2s
Can't tell if serious!?
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post #24 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post
Go Yamaha or Denon on the receiver -- I would skip the Proficient speakers
Definitely this^

Sadly, Sony is so far behind the curve now on receivers, IMO they aren't worth a mention.

Also, I agree with everyone else's suggestions, and I'd tell your installer to quit giving you terrible advice for garbage products they can flip for a buck and go with the general concensus of actual AVS users.

There are tons of great build threads on AVS with the sole purpose of concealing speakers into cabinets or entertainment centers. You did the right thing by seeking help. Keep on researching!

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post #25 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
So let assume, because WAF is influencing the decision you need:
1. Really nice looking speakers- still lots of variable, for instance, sometimes the lady will want white to match some decor/theme. or real wood look. of gloss black (rare)
2. Speakers that aren't huge.
I would say you would want at least a 5.5 or 6 inch driver...I would show her speakers from EMP, Kef, Wharfdale and HTD...those speakers can sometime get on the ladies good side. Probably no way you are going to get Bic, Chane, Klipsch, most Polk speaker by that filter...
WHite Q Acoustics Concept 20 for the Wife

https://www.qacoustics.com/bookshelf...aker-pair.html
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post #26 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
I would just talk to HTD.

They have some excellent products and free support including whole house audio.

http://www.htd.com/

Do NOT buy the brand your "installer" recommends.
HTD & Q Acoustics have very nice looking speakers
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post #27 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 01:20 PM
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What about all in ceiling speakers with aimable tweeters? Just a thought

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post #28 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 01:23 PM
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You could have matching wood veneer LCR speakers that match the wall?
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post #29 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 01:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHAudiofan View Post
What about all in ceiling speakers with aimable tweeters?
They're fine if you're after that Denny's restaurant background music vibe, but not for anything resembling good sound. There are in-ceilings that work quite well, but they're way out of the OP's price range.
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post #30 of 98 Old 06-21-2017, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
They're fine if you're after that Denny's restaurant background music vibe, but not for anything resembling good sound. There are in-ceilings that work quite well, but they're way out of the OP's price range.
Yeah I used to sell some very nice higher end units back 8 years ago which is why I mentioned them thinking maybe prices have come down

http://www.sonance.com/professionalseries

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