Audition of 4 mid-priced HT speakers - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 89 Old 07-06-2017, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Chane A2.4

Right away I noticed some significant differences between the ML’s and the Chanes. “Spanish Harlem” was even better on the Chanes. It sounded very rich and sweet, and the shakers were clear and varied. The showed great depth on “If I Could Sing Your Blues”, and “Grandma’s Hands” was really special. The finger snaps had the “flesh and bone” quality that the disc mentions. “Correnteza” did not have quite the same wide stage as the ML speakers. I really liked “Ask Me Now” on the Chanes, and I got a better sense of the size of the stage than with the ML’s. Th imaging and the location of the flute on “Flute Concerto in D” was very good. The Chanes also handled the Bass Resonance and Dynamic Test without problems, even when I boosted the output by 4dB.


The Chanes handled the Norah Jones tracks pretty similarly to the ML’s. A nice wide soundstage, the acoustic bass sounded great (you could hear the fingering) and the vocals were superb. The snare drum on “Come Away with Me” sounded very diffuse. I was blown away by the way the Chanes handled “Sultans of Swing”, which is my all-time favorite rock song. Mark Knopfler’s vocals were distinct and focused. It’s hard to explain, but it sounded like there was a separate center speaker playing the vocals. A huge smile came across my face, and I felt like I was in the studio. Also, the solo was very good, and not fatiguing. “Water of Love” was similarly great, with e very wide stage, and the guitar plucking at 2:30 of the track was very good. The wood block that plays throughout this track was not quite as distinctive as on the ML’s.


The Boston tracks were a little less muddy than on the ML’s, but generally similar. The beginning of “Brain Damage” felt like it was more open, almost like being in a large open room. Very spacious I guess. The Chanes also presented the Nirvana songs very well. The stage and imaging were great. Kurt’s voice was nice and harsh/guttural (real). Slightly better on “The Man Who Sold the World” than the ML’s. I could definitely imagine that I was at the show. “Hotel California” was good, not great. The bass was slightly muddy, but Henley’s voice at 3:37 was very nice.


After auditioning the Chanes, I get a sense of why so many people like them. They seemed very real, not biased in any one area of the spectrum, and the imaging is great. They were by far the best on “Sultans of Swing”. My untrained ears could not find any real weaknesses with them. They are going to be tough to beat.


Next Up: SVS Ultra
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post #32 of 89 Old 07-06-2017, 07:21 PM
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^ So would you say that the Chanes have the same or better treble detail/extension as the MLs, but without the treble harshness? Or did they both have slightly edgy treble at times when playing Norah?

Also, what about sibilance? How did the cymbal brushes on the title track, "Come Away With Me" sound?

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #33 of 89 Old 07-06-2017, 08:37 PM
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Chanes are awesome value; I have expensive Revel speakers in my 5.1.4 set-up & they are great but not light years better than my former A3s and current A2 center.

Also have Polk LSiM 703s in another set-up and my $500-600 Chanes held their own vs. them.

All & all the Chanes are a great bang for the buck with their split gap mid-woofers and flat planar tweeter which have great treble with no screeching

Good luck all!!
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post #34 of 89 Old 07-06-2017, 09:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
^ So would you say that the Chanes have the same or better treble detail/extension as the MLs, but without the treble harshness? Or did they both have slightly edgy treble at times when playing Norah?
Yes, I would say that. The treble extension seemed very similar, although the Chanes had less harshness. Which was surprising--I always thought the ML's would be the smoothest.

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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Also, what about sibilance? How did the cymbal brushes on the title track, "Come Away With Me" sound?
Please help me with a definition of sibilance. I'm not sure what that is, and if that quality is good or bad.
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post #35 of 89 Old 07-06-2017, 09:30 PM
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Please help me with a definition of sibilance. I'm not sure what that is, and if that quality is good or bad.
Lots has been written on it...
https://www.google.com/search?biw=15...BIoQ1QIIlwEoAQ

In a nutshell, when listening to "Come Away With Me," the cymbal brushes that are present throughout the whole song can be presented as one strong, continuous and smeared SSSSSSSSS, or as distinct and delineated SS-SS-SS-SS, or (if a speaker is very rolled off up top) barely detectable soft SS-SS-SS.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #36 of 89 Old 07-06-2017, 10:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Lots has been written on it...
https://www.google.com/search?biw=15...BIoQ1QIIlwEoAQ

In a nutshell, when listening to "Come Away With Me," the cymbal brushes that are present throughout the whole song can be presented as one strong, continuous and smeared SSSSSSSSS, or as distinct and delineated SS-SS-SS-SS, or (if a speaker is very rolled off up top) barely detectable soft SS-SS-SS.
It sounds like sibilance is an undesirable characteristic. In "Come Away With Me" sibilance would show up as the smeared sound of the cymbal brushes, rather than the distinct "SS-SS" sounds?

Also, Zorba I have seen you comment on numerous speaker audition threads here, and I appreciate your advice. How would you recommend I proceed with the next phase of evaluating the speakers in 2.1 mode, or should I just skip to a full 3.1 or 5.1.4 HT evaluation?

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post #37 of 89 Old 07-07-2017, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by socalsharky View Post
It sounds like sibilance is an undesirable characteristic. In "Come Away With Me" sibilance would show up as the smeared sound of the cymbal brushes, rather than the distinct "SS-SS" sounds?

Also, Zorba I have seen you comment on numerous speaker audition threads here, and I appreciate your advice. How would you recommend I proceed with the next phase of evaluating the speakers in 2.1 mode, or should I just skip to a full 3.1 or 5.1.4 HT evaluation?
Well, I think that at the budget pricepoint, sibilance may simply be an inevitable fact of life if you want the utmost in treble extension/detail. I would hope that the more expensive speakers with RAAL tweeters like the Ascend Sierra 2 and Philharmonic BMR are able to avoid this trade-off, but I have never researched that.

If your usage will be mostly HT, then yeah I'd start playing movies in 3.1 or 5.1.4 or whatever format you're most likely to be using. Personally I tend towards more character/dialogue driven movies so I listen for voice clarity first and sound effects clarity/dynamics second.

The first 10-15 minutes of "Gladiator" has bits of Russell Crowe shouting commands at his troops as he leads them into a massive battle, see how clearly you can make out his words amid all the battle sounds.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #38 of 89 Old 07-07-2017, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Also, what about sibilance? How did the cymbal brushes on the title track, "Come Away With Me" sound?
Quote:
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It sounds like sibilance is an undesirable characteristic. In "Come Away With Me" sibilance would show up as the smeared sound of the cymbal brushes, rather than the distinct "SS-SS" sounds?
Recently I have specifically been trying to evaluate the sibilance of the Emotiva B1s that have an AMT tweeter that is similar to the one in ML speakers. On the Norah Jones (and Dianna Krall & Roger Waters) vocals, many of the S's are harder and might be considered sibilance. When I specifically listen for these harder S's I hear them. However, as I begin to enjoy the other details of the music, I quickly forget about the hard S's. BTW, this morning I was listening for sibilance from the 32" TV while on the elliptical; by paying attention to it, I noticed sibilance on nearly every S from a female voice during one commercial.

For my tastes, moving forward I am going to except that an S is created by the air passing between the tongue and the roof of the mouth. Some vocalist are more controlled than others at controlling the amount of S hiss. An accurate recording will capture this ssss sound. Also, a harder S may intentionally provide more impact....

So, MY standard has become that some S hiss is the result of an accurate reproduction of the recording. In contrast, if the S hiss seems more exaggerated than real life and remains prominent throughout a listening session, then I will probably consider the speaker to produce too much sibilance for my tastes (i.e. it's acceptable if it ceases to be a distraction, and it is not acceptable if it remains a distraction). YMMV

BTW: Socalsharky if you haven't heard it yet, you may enjoy Mark Knopfler's The Ragpicker's Dream. It's a great recording that provides a tremendous sense of airiness. The guitar player is pretty good too
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BTW: Socalsharky if you haven't heard it yet, you may enjoy Mark Knopfler's The Ragpicker's Dream. It's a great recording that provides a tremendous sense of airiness. The guitar player is pretty good too
Thanks for the heads up. I have not heard it, but will be doing so shortly.
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post #40 of 89 Old 07-07-2017, 10:37 AM
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Also, what about sibilance? How did the cymbal brushes on the title track, "Come Away With Me" sound?
I just listened to the track a couple times. It's been decades since I was in a percussion section... But through the B1's AMT tweeter, cymbals sound clear, accurate, and detailed with just enough subtle grit to sound natural. I did not hear any distortion or harshness that sounded out of place.

The subtle nature of the cymbal brushes through the AMT are definitely less harsh than from poorly implemented aluminum dome tweeters. While I can't say for sure that B1s are as smooth as my [formerly owned] Diamond 10.1s were, I'm pretty sure they do provide more detail (both good and bad).

I suspect that the ML and Chanes should also provide a similar type of clean reproduction of the recording. The ML & Chane speakers with "ribbon" tweeters will be an interesting comparison to the SVS Ultras that have aluminum tweeters.
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post #41 of 89 Old 07-07-2017, 11:50 AM
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While I can't say for sure that B1s are as smooth as my [formerly owned] Diamond 10.1s were, I'm pretty sure they do provide more detail (both good and bad).
I would certainly hope so...maximum detail I thought is the main design goal of these flat tweeters.

What I'd be curious to find out is, can a speaker have that type of maximum treble detail/extension AND relatively low sibilance or is it pretty much unavoidable?

Would love to hear @DennisMurphy or @jonlane or our other speaker designer forumites weigh in on that question.
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post #42 of 89 Old 07-07-2017, 12:25 PM
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Sibilance....I know what you guys are talking about, but cannot really explain it. i call it high end distortion, but not really distortion, maybe just a lack of accuracy causing the highs to all mesh together. When it is a woofer and bass, i think we all say muddy.
Not speaking for Dennis or suggesting that the RAAL is the best tweeter ever made, but it has the most distinct and detailed highs that I have ever heard. No dome tweeter or horn has ever displayed the detail I hear at the high end. i hear it the most on classical music, where the high notes on string instruments can really be heard as individual plucks/notes. I have heard some folded/AMT ribbon tweeters and they sound great, but do not match the detail of the RAAL (Dennis used the priopriatory OEM 64-10 RAAL in several of his designs).
Btw, I don't worry about a great speaker revealing flaws in some of my recordings! Make no mistakes, the Phil- BMR does (in particular the RAAL ribbon) ! Music I like, well I don't listen to you tube for anything other than talk/documentories. Music, well down load high quality material or listen by CD, no exceptions for me!
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post #43 of 89 Old 07-07-2017, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
I would certainly hope so...maximum detail I thought is the main design goal of these flat tweeters.

What I'd be curious to find out is, can a speaker have that type of maximum treble detail/extension AND relatively low sibilance or is it pretty much unavoidable?

Would love to hear @DennisMurphy or @jonlane or our other speaker designer forumites weigh in on that question.
Sibilant energy is concentrated around 6 kHz according to sound engineers I've spoken with. So treble extension isn't really a factor in making a speaker emphasize sibilance. It more a question of whether the tweeter is voiced hot across its range, or if there's a peak in its output in the region of sibilance. A driver that's inherently flat and very extended, like the RAAL ribbon and, I assume, the leaf tweeter used in the Chanes, won't be any more sibilant than a high quality dome, assuming the crossover designer has done his work.
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post #44 of 89 Old 07-07-2017, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
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Sibilant energy is concentrated around 6 kHz according to sound engineers I've spoken with. So treble extension isn't really a factor in making a speaker emphasize sibilance. It more a question of whether the tweeter is voiced hot across its range, or if there's a peak in its output in the region of sibilance. A driver that's inherently flat and very extended, like the RAAL ribbon and, I assume, the leaf tweeter used in the Chanes, won't be any more sibilant than a high quality dome, assuming the crossover designer has done his work.
Being an audio engineer, I feel compelled to opine. While some sibilant energy in common musical recordings does certainly exist at 6khz, I have seen it exist at all frequencies from 2khz all the way up past 7khz.

I suspect that the issue has as much to do with time domain energy storage as it does with amplitude.

I do a significant amount of audio editing, analysis, and enhancement in Sony Spectral Layers Pro 3. It has been my experience that, in the tighter FFT windows, this time component becomes much easier to see. I tend to focus on overly sibilant aspects of voice recordings as they bear directly on vocal intelligibility. Especially with covert/surreptitious voice recordings.

Outside of spectral analysis, this would be very difficult to discern in a std waveform editor like Soundforge (which I also employ), Cubase, Audition, et al.

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post #45 of 89 Old 07-07-2017, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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SVS Ultra

The Ultras were quite a bit different than either the Chanes or ML’s. Right away I noticed a much brighter signature. On the Chesky disc, “Spanish Harlem” sounded very real, with strong bass. The shakers were well placed in the background and very crisp. However, on the depth test, the Ultras did not handle the material as well as the Chanes or ML’s. Similarly, the finger snaps on “Grandma’s Hands” were not as crisp and real as the Chanes. On “Maiden Voyage” the piano notes were crisp and slightly harsh. The naturalness and transparency tracks were similar to Chane and ML. I did notice that the reflected sax sounds on “Ask me Now” were not as well defined as with Chane and ML. On the plus side, the Ultras excelled at the visceral impact track, “Sweet Georgia Brown”, and had more energy on the rhythm and pace track “I Love Paris”. The Ultras were overly bright for me on “The Royal March”, and had slightly boomy bass on the “Bass Resonance Test”. They were very strong, although slightly harsh on the dynamic test.

I neglected to test the Ultras on the Norah Jones material. I need to go back and do that. The Ultras were just OK on the Dire Straits material. I felt that they did not handle Mark Knopfler’s vocals as clearly, and the higher guitar notes were overly bright and mildly harsh. The bass line on “Water of Love” was great with the Ultras—very strong and precise. The Ultras hit their high point on all of the Boston material. This seems to be their sweet spot. I saw Boston in concert about a month ago, and these speakers re-created that experience very well. They were bright, but just the right amount of brightness for this music. The guitars 0:40 into “More Than a Feeling” were especially good. DSOTM was flatter than with the Chanes, as was “Hotel California”. The Nirvana tracks were good, and the stage was nice. However, I heard a lot or harsh treble on “About a Girl”. “The Man Who Sold the World” was better and I enjoyed it on these speakers. Vocals were very clear and not overly bright.


Ascend Acoustics 340SE

The Ascends sound similar to the Chanes in most regards, and I enjoyed most of the tracks on these speakers. “Spanish Harlem” was great as usual, seemed very real, and I could make out Rebecca’s breathing. The imaging of the shaker was not quite as good as with the Chane. The 340’s had great depth on “If I Could Sing Your Blues”, with almost a nightclub feeling to the track. “Grandma’s Hands was also great, with very lifelike finger snaps. The bass seemed a little “boomy” (not well defined) on the atmosphere track. The naturalness track was not quite as convincing as it was on the Chanes, and I noticed a significant drop-off in the off-axis response, similar to the ML’s. The Ascends were very similar to the Chanes on several tracks, including “Ask Me Now”, “Sweet Georgia Brown”, and “I Love Paris”. The imaging and the location of the flute on “Flute Concerto in D” was very good. The sound of the keys was distinct. I also liked the Ascends on the bass resonance test, and they passed the dynamic test with no problems.

I really enjoyed all of the Norah Jones tracks on the Ascends. Vocals were very clear, the imaging and stage were great, and the bass notes were well defined. “Turn me On” was spectacular. The two Dire Straits tracks were very good. Mark Knopfler’s vocals were similar to the Chanes, but not quite as well defined in space. The solo on “Sultans of Swing” was slightly harsh at times. “Water of Love” was not quite as dynamic as Chane. Both Boston tracks were very similar to the Chanes, but well below the outstanding performance of the Ultras. The brightness of the Ultras carried the day on these two tracks. The Ascends imaged the beginning of “Brain Damage” very well. The vocals on the two Nirvana tracks were good, but the imaging was a little mixed up; not as precise as the ML’s or the Chanes. Cobain’s voice was slightly muddled. Overall the Ascends were just OK on these two songs. The 340’s were the best of all 4 speakers on “Hotel California”. Henley’s vocals were very clear and the imaging was good.


Summary of 2.0 Audition


I felt that the Chanes were the best of the 4 speakers in the 2.0 test. For the most part, they presented the best vocals, satisfactory bass, and great imaging. The SVS Ultras had a big advantage in overall bass response, and excelled at classic rock like the two Boston tracks. However, they were overly bright and somewhat harsh on some material. I have a feeling they may be better on HT material. As I mentioned earlier, the ML’s were pretty good at everything, but I didn’t sense the greatness that their price tag warrants. Perhaps I was expecting more, and I judged them too harshly. It’s hard to be entirely objective when evaluating something like speakers. I really liked the Ascend 340’s as well. They were very close to the Chanes on a number of the tracks, but the performance of the Chanes on my favorite piece of rock music carried the day for the Chanes. The Ascends are definitely worth further consideration.
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Cool. Thank you very much for your efforts so far.
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post #47 of 89 Old 07-07-2017, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by socalsharky View Post
The first round of auditions is complete. As mentioned above, I auditioned all 4 sets of speakers in 2.0 only. I attempted to level match the dB output using my iPhone app and a pink noise track. I was getting a reading of 83-85 dB with the pink noise. This was moderately loud, and resulted in settings of -15.5 to -17 on the Yamaha. All speakers were tested using my Yamaha A3060 in Pure Direct mode. The audition material consisted of the following CD music:

  • The Ultimate Demonstration Disc (Chesky Records) - all tracks
  • Norah Jones— Come Away with Me: “Don’t Know Why”, “Come Away with Me” and “Cold Cold Heart”
  • Dire Straits—Dire Straits: “Sultans of Swing” and “Down by the Waterline”
  • Boston—Boston: “More than a Feeling” and Foreplay/Long Time”
  • Pink Floyd—Dark Side of the Moon: “Brain Damage” and “Eclipse”
  • Nirvana—Unplugged: “About a Girl” and “The Man Who Sold the World”
  • Eagles—Hotel California: “Hotel California”

I tested the speakers over a 2-day period in the following order: ML, Chane, SVS, Ascend.

I am certainly no audiophile, and haven’t had a serious hi-fi system in about 25 years, so take the following comments as coming from someone with an enthusiastic, but untrained ear. The only real speakers in my house are a set of NHT SuperOnes running as part of a AV system in our family room. I am definitely open to suggestions on how to modify my auditioning to find the right speakers for my new Media room. After the first round of testing, I would rank the speakers as follows:

1. Chane
2. Ascend
3. SVS / ML (tied, but very different)


Martin Logan 35XT

The ML speakers were very balanced and well behaved, but I didn’t feel as if they did anything particularly well. They were the first set that I listened to, so perhaps my ears were still in a learning phase. I liked the way they handled most of the material on the Chesky disc, particularly “Spanish Harlem”, which was very warm and real, the airy cymbals on “Played Twice”, and the flute in the “Flute Concerto in D”. However, there were also some things I did not like, such as a slight harshness to the high piano notes on “Maiden Voyage” the lack of naturalness on “Correnteza” and the inability to resolve the size of the studio on “Ask me Now”. The ML’s handled the Bass Resonance and Dynamic Test without problems, even when I boosted the output by 4dB.

The ML speakers did well with Norah Jones, although some of the high notes were mildly harsh. The stage seemed very wide. The bass had a nice sense of fullness. The ML’s did not do nearly as well with the Dire Straits tracks. Mark Knopfler’s vocal are rather indistinct, and the bass is rather weak. The stage is very good, and the imaging on “Water of Love” is excellent. Sounds coming from all across the stage. The solo on “Sultans of Swing was slightly fatiguing. Both Boston tracks were rather forgettable. I am realizing that this is not a great recording, even though it is great music. Same thing with DSOTM. Kind of muddy and non-distinct imaging. Mostly the recording I think. The ML’s excelled on the 2 Nirvana tracks, which were recorded live. The stage is excellent, and I could imagine being in the club. The ML’s presented a very wide stage on “Hotel California”, but again, the music was rather non-distinct. It didn’t feel much different than listening in my car.

Given their price, I wasn’t overly impressed with the ML speakers. Further, I noticed the off-axis response was poor. I believe that this is a function of the tweeter design and is specific to the XT series. They may be better with home theater, but definitely do not excel with rock music.
Next up: Chane
Thanks for the update.....
Thought for sure ML's would dominate this round...just because of the price
Chane's holding their own as I thought they might

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post #48 of 89 Old 07-07-2017, 09:20 PM
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Being an audio engineer, I feel compelled to opine. While some sibilant energy in common musical recordings does certainly exist at 6khz, I have seen it exist at all frequencies from 2khz all the way up past 7khz.

I suspect that the issue has as much to do with time domain energy storage as it does with amplitude.

I do a significant amount of audio editing, analysis, and enhancement in Sony Spectral Layers Pro 3. It has been my experience that, in the tighter FFT windows, this time component becomes much easier to see. I tend to focus on overly sibilant aspects of voice recordings as they bear directly on vocal intelligibility. Especially with covert/surreptitious voice recordings.

Outside of spectral analysis, this would be very difficult to discern in a std waveform editor like Soundforge (which I also employ), Cubase, Audition, et al.

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I'm not sure where that leaves us. The question was whether it was possible to use tweeters with flat and extended frequency response and avoid excessive sibilance. I believe that there is a good bit of sibilant energy at 6 kHZ, but whether it's 2 kHz or 7 kHz or everything in between isn't the issue. If the area of sibilance was at 20 kHz or higher, then there might be a problem with very wide range transducers (assuming anyone other than my golden retriever could hear it). I've always considered energy storage as the result of driver resonance modes, which should show up in the impulse response and the derived frequency response. So I think we're saying the same thing. A well behaved, wide range driver, properly implemented, is not more prone to sibilance--quite the opposite.
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post #49 of 89 Old 07-08-2017, 05:32 AM
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Chane A2.4

Right away I noticed some significant differences between the ML’s and the Chanes. “Spanish Harlem” was even better on the Chanes. It sounded very rich and sweet, and the shakers were clear and varied. The showed great depth on “If I Could Sing Your Blues”, and “Grandma’s Hands” was really special. The finger snaps had the “flesh and bone” quality that the disc mentions. “Correnteza” did not have quite the same wide stage as the ML speakers. I really liked “Ask Me Now” on the Chanes, and I got a better sense of the size of the stage than with the ML’s. Th imaging and the location of the flute on “Flute Concerto in D” was very good. The Chanes also handled the Bass Resonance and Dynamic Test without problems, even when I boosted the output by 4dB.


The Chanes handled the Norah Jones tracks pretty similarly to the ML’s. A nice wide soundstage, the acoustic bass sounded great (you could hear the fingering) and the vocals were superb. The snare drum on “Come Away with Me” sounded very diffuse. I was blown away by the way the Chanes handled “Sultans of Swing”, which is my all-time favorite rock song. Mark Knopfler’s vocals were distinct and focused. It’s hard to explain, but it sounded like there was a separate center speaker playing the vocals. A huge smile came across my face, and I felt like I was in the studio. Also, the solo was very good, and not fatiguing. “Water of Love” was similarly great, with e very wide stage, and the guitar plucking at 2:30 of the track was very good. The wood block that plays throughout this track was not quite as distinctive as on the ML’s.


The Boston tracks were a little less muddy than on the ML’s, but generally similar. The beginning of “Brain Damage” felt like it was more open, almost like being in a large open room. Very spacious I guess. The Chanes also presented the Nirvana songs very well. The stage and imaging were great. Kurt’s voice was nice and harsh/guttural (real). Slightly better on “The Man Who Sold the World” than the ML’s. I could definitely imagine that I was at the show. “Hotel California” was good, not great. The bass was slightly muddy, but Henley’s voice at 3:37 was very nice.


After auditioning the Chanes, I get a sense of why so many people like them. They seemed very real, not biased in any one area of the spectrum, and the imaging is great. They were by far the best on “Sultans of Swing”. My untrained ears could not find any real weaknesses with them. They are going to be tough to beat.


Next Up: SVS Ultra
Man awesome job. I feel like my reviews are garbage now LOL
But this is about giving people options and informing them of speaker performance. Although my reviews not as detail, I feel like we are on the same page

CHane's A2.4s= Clarity, Detail is their strength along with mids, highs, and the imaging is best I've encountered
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post #50 of 89 Old 07-08-2017, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Man awesome job. I feel like my reviews are garbage now LOL
But this is about giving people options and informing them of speaker performance. Although my reviews not as detail, I feel like we are on the same page

CHane's A2.4s= Clarity, Detail is their strength along with mids, highs, and the imaging is best I've encountered
Thank so for the kind words @mpk1970 . On the contrary. Your review was very helpful and did come at the review from a different perspective. I always enjoy reading these shootout reviews by honest, unbiased forum members.
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post #51 of 89 Old 07-08-2017, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post
I'm not sure where that leaves us. The question was whether it was possible to use tweeters with flat and extended frequency response and avoid excessive sibilance. I believe that there is a good bit of sibilant energy at 6 kHZ, but whether it's 2 kHz or 7 kHz or everything in between isn't the issue. If the area of sibilance was at 20 kHz or higher, then there might be a problem with very wide range transducers (assuming anyone other than my golden retriever could hear it). I've always considered energy storage as the result of driver resonance modes, which should show up in the impulse response and the derived frequency response. So I think we're saying the same thing. A well behaved, wide range driver, properly implemented, is not more prone to sibilance--quite the opposite.
I think we are, indeed, saying the same thing.

I would also add that I've found that crossover geometry and slope Q can play roles in energy storage when interacting with the drivers. Additionally, with some tweeters being purely resistive within their band and others having a more complex impedance geometry, this can throw other wrenches in the mix.

But, as we agree, merely having a flat on axis amplitude response does not have ANY bearing, in and of itself, on the presence of sibilance.

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post #52 of 89 Old 07-08-2017, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
CHane's A2.4s= Clarity, Detail is their strength along with mids, highs, and the imaging is best I've encountered
To be clear, you guys are talking about using a pair of A2.4's for the FR & FL?
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post #53 of 89 Old 07-08-2017, 07:51 AM
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To be clear, you guys are talking about using a pair of A2.4's for the FR & FL?
IIRC, mpk did most of his speaker testing with the A2.4 as the center and only later ordered a set of them for FR/FL use; he also is not a devout believer in the "timbre matching" religion.
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #54 of 89 Old 07-08-2017, 08:57 AM
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Chane A2.4

Mark Knopfler’s vocals were distinct and focused. It’s hard to explain, but it sounded like there was a separate center speaker playing the vocals.
Yes, this enjoyable phenomenon happens often with good quality recordings and equipment.


I'm thoroughly enjoying your experience. Keep it up.
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post #55 of 89 Old 07-08-2017, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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To be clear, you guys are talking about using a pair of A2.4's for the FR & FL?
Yes. I ordered three A2.4's to be used for FL, FR, and center. Chane ships all of the speakers in the "center configuration" with the tweeter oriented for horizontal placement of the speaker. If you want to use them in a vertical orientation, you simply rotate the tweeter 90 degrees.
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post #56 of 89 Old 07-08-2017, 11:02 AM
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Summary of 2.0 Audition


I felt that the Chanes were the best of the 4 speakers in the 2.0 test. For the most part, they presented the best vocals, satisfactory bass, and great imaging. The SVS Ultras had a big advantage in overall bass response, and excelled at classic rock like the two Boston tracks. However, they were overly bright and somewhat harsh on some material. I have a feeling they may be better on HT material. As I mentioned earlier, the ML’s were pretty good at everything, but I didn’t sense the greatness that their price tag warrants. Perhaps I was expecting more, and I judged them too harshly. It’s hard to be entirely objective when evaluating something like speakers. I really liked the Ascend 340’s as well. They were very close to the Chanes on a number of the tracks, but the performance of the Chanes on my favorite piece of rock music carried the day for the Chanes. The Ascends are definitely worth further consideration.
Good stuff, I own the ML LX16s and completely agree that Martin Logan's MSRP is almost 50 percent too high; luckily I paid $398/pair instead of $798 so very happy with them in 2.2/3.2.

The only place they were "better" in my opinion to the excellent Q Acoustics Concept 20s was for acoustic, classical and jazz, the Concept 20s were better on piano.

What separated them for me was the naturalness "on point" vocals on Ben Folds and Bell X1 live which I had recently seen in concert and the Folded Motion tweeter nailed the vocal tonality in both cases.

I would have been happy with either but if I had paid $1200 for the similar sounding XT35s I think I would have been pissed!

So yes, Martin Logans at MSRP are way overpriced and anyone considering them would be well advised to look at the Emotiva line with the similar tweeter where $1200 would buy you a tower based 5.0 system!
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post #57 of 89 Old 07-08-2017, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by socalsharky View Post
I felt that the Chanes were the best of the 4 speakers in the 2.0 test. For the most part, they presented the best vocals, satisfactory bass, and great imaging. The SVS Ultras had a big advantage in overall bass response, and excelled at classic rock like the two Boston tracks. However, they were overly bright and somewhat harsh on some material. I have a feeling they may be better on HT material. As I mentioned earlier, the ML’s were pretty good at everything, but I didn’t sense the greatness that their price tag warrants. Perhaps I was expecting more, and I judged them too harshly. It’s hard to be entirely objective when evaluating something like speakers. I really liked the Ascend 340’s as well. They were very close to the Chanes on a number of the tracks, but the performance of the Chanes on my favorite piece of rock music carried the day for the Chanes. The Ascends are definitely worth further consideration.
Socalsharky, Thanks for your time and effort. Your review was well done! Without using a lot of technical mumbo jumbo, you were able to provide a very clear description of your impressions of the speakers.
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post #58 of 89 Old 07-08-2017, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I have run the initial HT auditions of the Martin Logans, Chanes, and SVS Ultras, in that order. I used scenes from Gladiator, Avatar, Star Trek (2009), and Star Wars Episode 3. Everything was pretty much matching the results of the 2.0 testing, until I got to the SVS Ultras. They were noticeably stronger, with better vocals than the Chanes and ML's. I haven't tested the Ascends yet.

After testing the SVS however, I realized that I had not rerun the YPAO calibration between speakers. All of the music 2.0 tests were run in Pure Direct mode, which bypasses all of the EQ, so that was not an issue. But I am wondering if the lack of rerunning YPAO is effecting my HT tests.

@mpk1970 did you re-calibrate your Denon by rerunning Audyssey (sp?) between each round? What differences did you see between the Chanes and SVS Ultra during the movie testing? The other issue is I did a thorough break in on the Chane L/R, but my center has only about 5 hours on it.
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post #59 of 89 Old 07-08-2017, 06:21 PM
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I have run the initial HT auditions of the Martin Logans, Chanes, and SVS Ultras, in that order. I used scenes from Gladiator, Avatar, Star Trek (2009), and Star Wars Episode 3. Everything was pretty much matching the results of the 2.0 testing, until I got to the SVS Ultras. They were noticeably stronger, with better vocals than the Chanes and ML's. I haven't tested the Ascends yet.

After testing the SVS however, I realized that I had not rerun the YPAO calibration between speakers. All of the music 2.0 tests were run in Pure Direct mode, which bypasses all of the EQ, so that was not an issue. But I am wondering if the lack of rerunning YPAO is effecting my HT tests.

@mpk1970 did you re-calibrate your Denon by rerunning Audyssey (sp?) between each round? What differences did you see between the Chanes and SVS Ultra during the movie testing? The other issue is I did a thorough break in on the Chane L/R, but my center has only about 5 hours on it.
You'll want to re-run any room correction every time you switch speakers, or even if you significantly change the physical location of the same speakers in the room.

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If you are going to audition using auto calibration, then it needs to be rerun for every speaker change.
More than likely you would be using the auto calibration settings in normal day to day usage and therefore you should base your decision off of whichever set sounds best using the auto calibration.
But it would also be very informative and fun to get your impressions of what the speakers sounded like without using room correction, so we can get the idea of what the actual speakers sound like instead of how the speakers respond to the electronic corrections.
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