Speaker Shootout - two of the most accurate and well reviewed speakers ever made - Page 30 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 1872Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #871 of 1751 Old 08-21-2017, 10:01 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 100
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Liked: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
I'm so with you on this John!

I've been back in to auditioning all sorts of different speakers again recently and getting those elements of string sound right is always the Achilles heal of a sound system. I've heard countless sound systems, and own many different speaker designs (including the Paul Barton NRC-designed waveform speakers) and nothing ever truly captures the combination of presence and silkiness of a real string section. Even the most revealing speaker systems sound more like canned, thin, slightly strident samples vs the real thing. (That was true of when I auditioned the older Salon speakers as well).

And that is a specific symptom of the general difference I find with live instruments/voices vs reproduced: the way live sound has such presence and clarity yet is so relaxed and luxurious in it's detail and tonality.

Given no sound system (that I'm aware of) truly reproduces the full quality of live sound sources - especially given the variability of the source material we have to begin with - we tend to chase one or another aspect of sound we want to get most right. One of the reasons I've favored certain types of tube amplification over the years is because, while it may be a distortion introduced into the chain, it is a distortion that nudges the sound in the right direction to my ears in terms of what I'm trying to re-create - it can relax the sound, fill it out a bit, while not simply rolling it off and making the sound "dark." So to my ears vocalists sound more human, string sections a bit more silky yet present. Just one of many ways to skin a cat, but that is where you might say I may depart a bit from your approach. Like you I want accuracy, and I prefer neutral sounding speakers overall. But given the still-there compromises in sound systems, and the variability in sources, I feel a bit of coloration can be judiciously introduced to achieve another aspect of "subjective accuracy" - accuracy to how real sounds sound to me.
Fascinating that no one here seems ever to have listened to Allison loudspeakers, all of which have a uniquely 'silky' tweeter that puts out as much sound sideways as forward.

(Quite apart from their smoother fill in the lower midrange, around and the octave below middle C.)

That (unpatented) tweeter alone usually carries the day in blind and sighted testing alike.

I am not at all surprised that the speaker here which puts more treble into the reverberant field (even if by only a little) is preferred. This was widely known, appreciated, and made a goal, with improving technologies, from the 1940s on, from Jensen pronouncements then to Villchur, Olson, Allison, even Bose in his sloppy way, and on and on. The Boston Audio Society starting in 1972, notably via the speaker researcher Dr Mark Davis, went on at length about the paramount important of horizontal radiation pattern. I mean paramount in the literal sense. Not driver material, not 'time stuff, not distortion: horizontal radpat.

Davis wrote two important but today clearly unknown papers for High Fidelity and Stereo Review about what is important to our hearing in speaker playback, complete with testing.

Toole and Olive's subsequent work quantifying and further testing and refining all of this vein of thought, from Jensen through Davis, can hardly be overstated in its importance. You can take it to the bank.

(MDavis went on to design a line of several uniform-beamforming speakers for dbx.)

Aside from how much fun it would be to test the Revel against say an Allison Nine (much less the BL90, BL5, and new Kii, all with their wide and less-wide controlled beamforming, and the Keele CBT36K, and there are others of some interest, from Ohm to Linkwitz), it would be cool to see how it does against the very modest Infinity P362 or P363, which 'won' earlier Olive-Toole blind tests. Its spinorama is impressively, 'superiorly' uniform
GLBright likes this.
davidrmoran is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #872 of 1751 Old 08-21-2017, 10:05 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 100
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Liked: 54
sorry, did not mean to quote mr harkness

sorry, did not mean to quote mr harkness; failed to preview, my apologies, was not responding directly to him
davidrmoran is offline  
post #873 of 1751 Old 08-21-2017, 10:30 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,221
Mentioned: 319 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3749 Post(s)
Liked: 3734
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1201 View Post
awesome.

I havent been using listening position or room eq lately but, when I do the moving mic method is my go to method.
IF you are using dsp and want to keep phase intact, another method is to take 16 measurments around the mlp and use the a+b/2 feature of REW several times to get to one final average. it takes a lot longer than the moving mic method though
REW has two averaging features now to make that quick, bottom left of all measurements window, and under the controls for all measurements there's a vector average, which is awesome.
bmcn likes this.
notnyt is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #874 of 1751 Old 08-21-2017, 10:30 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,221
Mentioned: 319 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3749 Post(s)
Liked: 3734
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1201 View Post
thanks for sharing. these look a lot more like what im used to seeing in typical rooms.

for some reason i had trouble opening your files. May I ask what version of rew you are using?

thanks
5.19 beta 6.
notnyt is offline  
post #875 of 1751 Old 08-21-2017, 11:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,621
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1018 Post(s)
Liked: 352
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
REW has two averaging features now to make that quick, bottom left of all measurements window, and under the controls for all measurements there's a vector average, which is awesome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
5.19 beta 6.
hey thanks for that info. the vector averaging makes quick work of combining the multi position measurements.

THANK YOU!!! for your selfless contribution to the audio world
Anders Torger for Brutefir
Thomas Drugeon for Rephase
John Mulcahy for room eq wizard
Denis Sbragion for DRC room correction
Juha Hartikainen for Winisd
1201 is offline  
post #876 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 05:41 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,306
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 840 Post(s)
Liked: 677
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
RE: Room EQ. My understanding Toole's new book will have a lot to say about the subject. Generally speaking, and again from my understanding, he is not a fan Like so many things, it's not a black and white thing either.

Possibly he will chime in here with some comments.
Just got my copy in! Can't wait to read it.
John Schuermann, Gooddoc and 1201 like this.

Lyngdorf MP-50 | Yamaha MX-A5200 | Ascend Sierra Towers | Ascend Sierra Horizon | Ascend Sierra Lunas | Ascend HTM-200SE | SVS SB-13 x4
duckymomo is offline  
post #877 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 06:08 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 1,422
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 927 Post(s)
Liked: 1110
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
RE: JBL. There's JBL pre-Toole and Olive's work, and JBL post-Toole and Olive's work. Two different animals.
Hey John, what year did Toole and Olive's work actually affect JBL speaker design? What were the first models that started sounding good and measuring well?

This might explain a lot re: my dislike of older JBL studio monitors I heard in studios when I first started working as a recording engineer.

I know the Revel Ultima Gem came out in 1997.

Thanks for any info you can provide.
Rex Anderson is offline  
post #878 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 06:14 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,696
Mentioned: 181 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3711 Post(s)
Liked: 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
Just got my copy in! Can't wait to read it.
My Amazon preorder hasn't shipped yet...bummer
pioferro likes this.
Gooddoc is offline  
post #879 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 06:34 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Scotth3886's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: New Albany, OH
Posts: 7,919
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3833 Post(s)
Liked: 2350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
Hey John, what year did Toole and Olive's work actually affect JBL speaker design? What were the first models that started sounding good and measuring well?

This might explain a lot re: my dislike of older JBL studio monitors I heard in studios when I first started working as a recording engineer.

I know the Revel Ultima Gem came out in 1997.

Thanks for any info you can provide.

"This might explain a lot re: my dislike of older JBL studio monitors I heard in studios when I first started working as a recording engineer."

Agree. However, a month or so ago I had a well broken store pair of LSR 308s here for a couple of days that I was planning on using in the garage for detail days(s). I did also try them in the house and didn't like them much better for all of the same reasons. They did do a couple of things very well: they were efficient and would go loud. Their 'house sound' is no more for me than a Klipsch would be. Each to his own of course.
Scotth3886 is offline  
post #880 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 06:42 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,306
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 840 Post(s)
Liked: 677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
My Amazon preorder hasn't shipped yet...bummer
I ordered it direct and used the coupon posted by John.
John Schuermann likes this.

Lyngdorf MP-50 | Yamaha MX-A5200 | Ascend Sierra Towers | Ascend Sierra Horizon | Ascend Sierra Lunas | Ascend HTM-200SE | SVS SB-13 x4
duckymomo is offline  
post #881 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 06:47 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,696
Mentioned: 181 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3711 Post(s)
Liked: 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
I ordered it direct and used the coupon posted by John.
Yeah, I should've done the same
John Schuermann and pioferro like this.
Gooddoc is offline  
post #882 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 08:33 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,621
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1018 Post(s)
Liked: 352
@RichB @Gooddoc


would you guys have any interest in posting some harmonic distortion graphs of your S2 and M2?


I know the world thinks that HD is not audible below 30dbs (arguable) but Im curious to see if we can see any difference of interest in the distortion between the two systems.


THANKS

THANK YOU!!! for your selfless contribution to the audio world
Anders Torger for Brutefir
Thomas Drugeon for Rephase
John Mulcahy for room eq wizard
Denis Sbragion for DRC room correction
Juha Hartikainen for Winisd
1201 is offline  
post #883 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 09:14 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
notnyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,221
Mentioned: 319 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3749 Post(s)
Liked: 3734
Clarity graphs from REW might also be interesting
notnyt is offline  
post #884 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 09:22 AM
Oppo Beta Group
 
RichB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 11,039
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1849 Post(s)
Liked: 1344
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1201 View Post
@RichB @Gooddoc


would you guys have any interest in posting some harmonic distortion graphs of your S2 and M2?


I know the world thinks that HD is not audible below 30dbs (arguable) but Im curious to see if we can see any difference of interest in the distortion between the two systems.

Here is the mdat file, if that helps: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6b5vw8lxha...tions.zip?dl=0


- Rich
mitchco likes this.

Oppo UPD-205 x 2 | UPD-203 | Sonica DAC | Emotiva XMC-1 (v3) | Revel Salon2s, Voice2, Studio2s | Benchmark AHB2 x 4 | ATI AT522NC | Velodyne HGS-15 | LG 77C9 | Lumagen 2020 | HDFury Vertex x 2
RichB is offline  
post #885 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 09:22 AM
Senior Member
 
Hifisound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Bangalore, India
Posts: 383
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Liked: 32
@John Schuermann
Do you have spinorama for Studio 2 ?

Looking at stereophile measurements, they seem to be even better measuring than Salon 2 and more sensitive too.
For bass, the price difference will allow 2 or 3 great subs and spare cash

Hifisound is offline  
post #886 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 09:24 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ericglo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Just below the US in South Florida
Posts: 11,552
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3444 Post(s)
Liked: 1894
This may have been mentioned before, but has there been any research quantifying what the goldenears and reviewers hear and their preferences? If so, how does that correlate to the trained monke......I mean listeners (that was for Scott) an Harman labs?

Having fun playing the new mobile game Volley Village
Ericglo is offline  
post #887 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 10:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Scotth3886's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: New Albany, OH
Posts: 7,919
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3833 Post(s)
Liked: 2350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
This may have been mentioned before, but has there been any research quantifying what the goldenears and reviewers hear and their preferences? If so, how does that correlate to the trained monke......I mean listeners (that was for Scott) an Harman labs?

I've never called anyone a "trained monkey", however, I think there's much more to all of 'this' than frequency response, other than side to side consistency with regards to frequency response, which is critical.

Although the context of the following is HT, AVS editor Scott Wilkinson questions whether the attributes that I'm personally interested in are measureable. Discussion starts at min 45:00 with Scott's comment at minute 48:30. Gerry's comments from 49:00 on are exactly what I'm saying except that I go one step further saying that much of 'this' can be done with two channel.


Last edited by Scotth3886; 08-22-2017 at 10:58 AM.
Scotth3886 is offline  
post #888 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 10:44 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,621
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1018 Post(s)
Liked: 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
Here is the mdat file, if that helps: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6b5vw8lxha...tions.zip?dl=0


- Rich
Thanks a bunch for that. I'll check it out when I get home.


I hope @Gooddoc also posts an mdat if possible

THANK YOU!!! for your selfless contribution to the audio world
Anders Torger for Brutefir
Thomas Drugeon for Rephase
John Mulcahy for room eq wizard
Denis Sbragion for DRC room correction
Juha Hartikainen for Winisd
1201 is offline  
post #889 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 11:32 AM
Member
 
Floyd Toole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: California
Posts: 755
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 781 Post(s)
Liked: 2853
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
RE: Room EQ. My understanding Toole's new book will have a lot to say about the subject. Generally speaking, and again from my understanding, he is not a fan Like so many things, it's not a black and white thing either.

Possibly he will chime in here with some comments.
Re. room EQ. My JAES paper of 2015 lays the groundwork, the book adds a bit more. My opinion and the reasoning behind it are all in print.

Toole, F. E. (2015). “The Measurement and Calibration of Sound Reproducing Systems”, J. Audio Eng. Soc., vol. 63, pp.512-541. This is an open-access paper available to non-members at www.aes.org. Click on publications, click on open access, type Toole, and download.
John Schuermann and Gooddoc like this.
Floyd Toole is offline  
post #890 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 11:56 AM
Member
 
Floyd Toole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: California
Posts: 755
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 781 Post(s)
Liked: 2853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okv View Post
There is a reason why I said "they". The concept of a colored speaker "improving" the sound does not correlate so well with my own understanding of what is good sound. Just saying that everybody does not agree.

And the omni vs narrow speaker still falls within the requirements for flat on-axis and smooth power response. An omni just need a little different target tilt on the response to create the same frequency response in-room. Same criteria, but still very different presentation of the sound.

This was the short version, I am a guest in this thread, and I want to respect that. Though not implying that others should not ask or comment or criticize.

Perhaps it is better to let Harman comment on this, and Toole has already written several comments we can read again.
I see that Okv is from Norway - a beautiful country, been there! As a European I'm sure he is familiar with a couple of standards that apply to broadcasting, but are also widely used in other domains.
EBU Tech. 3276 – 2nd edition (1998). “Listening conditions for the assessment of sound programme material: monophonic and two-channel stereophonic”.
ITU-R BS.1116-3 (2015). “Methods for the subjective assessment of small impairments in audio systems”, International Telecommunication Union, Geneva.

Both present the user with an unsolvable dilemma. First they require that the loudspeaker is flat on axis, anechoic. Then they require that the ORR (operational room response) a.k.a. a steady state room curve also be flat, and now EQ is permitted to achieve that. Doing so will corrupt the first requirement, because the room curve resulting from neutral loudspeakers has a slight downward tilt. The rooms are required to be abnormally dead: RT= 250 ms or so. This is so pervasive that one well known European manufacturer proudly displays anechoic data showing flattish on-axis responses (good) and then supplies user friendly EQ to obtain a flat room curve (???).

It turns out that the ITU document is up for revision, and there are some looking to make improvements, but there is opposition from the traditionalists who think that all the answers lie in steady state room curves. Combine that with the old notion that flat is beautiful and there is a problem. Flat direct sound is desired, not flat room curves - unless you are outdoors or in an anechoic chamber.

There is work yet to be done . . .
Aja, Okv and jjackkrash like this.
Floyd Toole is offline  
post #891 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 12:03 PM
Member
 
Floyd Toole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: California
Posts: 755
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 781 Post(s)
Liked: 2853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
Harman is big in car audio. Word on the street is that is one of the reasons Samsung bought them.
Car audio is a small part of Harman's involvement with cars. "Infomatics" is most of it: navigation, voice activation, connectivity, user interfaces, internet updates, and on and on. Something from Harman is in most cars, whether it is branded or not. It is a huge business, something like 75% of Harman's total sales of around $7B (I haven't looked lately, but that is in the ballpark). Home and pro audio are no longer the forces they once were, but the brands still matter.
Gooddoc, Ericglo and duckymomo like this.
Floyd Toole is offline  
post #892 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 12:08 PM
Member
 
Floyd Toole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: California
Posts: 755
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 781 Post(s)
Liked: 2853
Quote:
Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
Just got my copy in! Can't wait to read it.
I'm the @$%&*! author, and I have not seen a copy yet! Lucky you!
Floyd Toole is offline  
post #893 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 01:57 PM
Advanced Member
 
Jsin_N's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 756
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 442 Post(s)
Liked: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by awediophile View Post
This is a bit of an oversimplification of the physics as this trend only applies in the far field, but that's not that important here.

...
Correct on both accounts. I rushed that without giving enough thought and my math is clearly needing refreshed. Oh well. Thanks
Jsin_N is offline  
post #894 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 02:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,306
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 840 Post(s)
Liked: 677
Should really help me place and optimize my 7.4.4 Zu Audio speakers.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	sdf.png
Views:	80
Size:	2.00 MB
ID:	2271498  
John Schuermann and Ericglo like this.

Lyngdorf MP-50 | Yamaha MX-A5200 | Ascend Sierra Towers | Ascend Sierra Horizon | Ascend Sierra Lunas | Ascend HTM-200SE | SVS SB-13 x4

Last edited by duckymomo; 08-22-2017 at 03:05 PM.
duckymomo is offline  
post #895 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 03:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
torii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,873
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3420 Post(s)
Liked: 1902
did i read the price right on amazon for hardback? 175.00 ouch need my college aid again for free books

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
torii is offline  
post #896 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 03:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
12B4A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: CR Iowa
Posts: 1,052
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 601 Post(s)
Liked: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd Toole View Post
Car audio is a small part of Harman's involvement with cars. "Infomatics" is most of it: navigation, voice activation, connectivity, user interfaces, internet updates, and on and on. Something from Harman is in most cars, whether it is branded or not. It is a huge business, something like 75% of Harman's total sales of around $7B (I haven't looked lately, but that is in the ballpark). Home and pro audio are no longer the forces they once were, but the brands still matter.
So where's the Legend CP100??

(I know you have nothing to do with it but I figure I would bring it up facetiously since you were the most recent to quote and the topic was Harman and cars )

Life is Lambertian
12B4A is offline  
post #897 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 04:25 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
augerpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 1,946
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked: 75
So what's new in this 3rd edition that I wasn't in my 1st edition of Sound Reproduction?
augerpro is offline  
post #898 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 04:40 PM
Member
 
Floyd Toole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: California
Posts: 755
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 781 Post(s)
Liked: 2853
Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro View Post
So what's new in this 3rd edition that I wasn't in my 1st edition of Sound Reproduction?
There is material in the first edition that is not in this one. There is a lot of new content in this edition, and I tried to make it more 'accessible'. I wish that I could have kept everything and built on it, but even 500 pages is a significant limit! If you have become familiar with the old edition, you may wish to keep it - it depends on your level of interest.

An important difference this time is that there is a companion website that I am creating content for now. There will be additional information and some guides to accessing information in the book. It allows me more freedom, more space and it will be updated every few months. It will also contain errata :-( Perfection is elusive . . .
John Schuermann and LRS3 like this.
Floyd Toole is offline  
post #899 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 04:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
torii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,873
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3420 Post(s)
Liked: 1902
doc floyd- you still pm'ing coupons for your book? or have coupons out there?

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
torii is offline  
post #900 of 1751 Old 08-22-2017, 05:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,306
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 840 Post(s)
Liked: 677
Quote:
Originally Posted by torii View Post
doc floyd- you still pm'ing coupons for your book? or have coupons out there?
Try LOYAL

Lyngdorf MP-50 | Yamaha MX-A5200 | Ascend Sierra Towers | Ascend Sierra Horizon | Ascend Sierra Lunas | Ascend HTM-200SE | SVS SB-13 x4
duckymomo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off