DTS Virtual:X vs DTS X - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 11 Old 11-22-2017, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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DTS Virtual:X vs DTS X

Sorry if this is in the wrong section but I didn't see a section for general questions. Can someone tell me what the difference is between these 2? They say the Denons are available for the update but of course my Denon x4300h isn't on the list. Thanks

edit: Or are they the same just named different?

Last edited by chicago1; 11-22-2017 at 11:35 AM.
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post #2 of 11 Old 11-22-2017, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by chicago1 View Post
Sorry if this is in the wrong section but I didn't see a section for general questions. Can someone tell me what the difference is between these 2? They say the Denons are available for the update but of course my Denon x4300h isn't on the list. Thanks

edit: Or are they the same just named different?
"virtual" is the difference. It's the same as the DSU (dolby surround upmixer) in the dolby atmos setting.

It provides a simulated DTS:X sound from non DTS:X soundtracks.

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post #3 of 11 Old 11-22-2017, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago1 View Post
Sorry if this is in the wrong section but I didn't see a section for general questions. Can someone tell me what the difference is between these 2? They say the Denons are available for the update but of course my Denon x4300h isn't on the list. Thanks

edit: Or are they the same just named different?
Virtual:X is height virtualization. Like Dolby Elevation processing that is built into Atmos upfiring speakers. Remember the old spatializer processing, which gave the impression of surround sound with only 2 speakers? Imagine the same thing for giving the impression of height without using overhead speakers or upfiring speakers. When a DTS:X track is decoded, only the height information gets processed by Virtual:X. The height info is sent to your regular 5.1 or 7.1 speakers, but those particular sounds should appear to come from above you. Or so the theory goes.
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
"virtual" is the difference. It's the same as the DSU (dolby surround upmixer) in the dolby atmos setting.

It provides a simulated DTS:X sound from non DTS:X soundtracks.
You're describing DTS Neural:X, not Virtual:X.

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post #4 of 11 Old 11-22-2017, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Gotcha. I have atmos speakers though I haven't heard anything on them yet. That one move Okjua or whatever it's doesn't have it being "atmos" in Netflix.
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post #5 of 11 Old 12-08-2017, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Virtual:X is height virtualization. Like Dolby Elevation processing that is built into Atmos upfiring speakers. Remember the old spatializer processing, which gave the impression of surround sound with only 2 speakers? Imagine the same thing for giving the impression of height without using overhead speakers or upfiring speakers. When a DTS:X track is decoded, only the height information gets processed by Virtual:X. The height info is sent to your regular 5.1 or 7.1 speakers, but those particular sounds should appear to come from above you. Or so the theory goes. You're describing DTS Neural:X, not Virtual:X.
I have a 5.1 speaker setup where all 5 speakers except the sub (weird room configuration, trust me) are high-end in-ceiling speakers. I have never worried about Atmos or DTS:X because of my configuration. Am I correct in assuming that Virtual:X (which is available for my AVR) would not sound very good/natural with this speaker setup?
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post #6 of 11 Old 12-08-2017, 08:12 AM
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Am I correct in assuming that Virtual:X (which is available for my AVR) would not sound very good/natural with this speaker setup?
If it is available for your AVR, have you not tried it to see for yourself whether it sounds good/natural with your speaker setup?

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post #7 of 11 Old 12-08-2017, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
If it is available for your AVR, have you not tried it to see for yourself whether it sounds good/natural with your speaker setup?
Point taken. I will play with it this weekend.
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post #8 of 11 Old 12-18-2017, 09:08 PM
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I've had a couple of Denon receivers that have lasted over a decade and have been pleased with them, including my current 1910. Until I get a 4K TV, which is still down the road, I see no real reason to upgrade yet to get the 4K and HDR passthrough capability of the current models. But I have been reading about DTS:x Virtual and see that this model line has recently received it. The ability to give "Atmos Like" spacial overhead surround sound to any media source, encoded or not, does seem fascinating. I'm very curious about your impressions of it by those of you have tried it after the latest firmware update. Worth an receiver upgrade right now because it's so impressive? Or just another DSP "gimmick" like those loaded on to Yamaha models? Or somewhere in between? Because of my peaked ceilings and other considerations I'm unlikely to ever have a true Atmos/DTS:X speaker set up. So DTS:x Virtual does intrigue me.
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post #9 of 11 Old 02-07-2018, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Movielvr77 View Post
I've had a couple of Denon receivers that have lasted over a decade and have been pleased with them, including my current 1910. Until I get a 4K TV, which is still down the road, I see no real reason to upgrade yet to get the 4K and HDR passthrough capability of the current models. But I have been reading about DTS:x Virtual and see that this model line has recently received it. The ability to give "Atmos Like" spacial overhead surround sound to any media source, encoded or not, does seem fascinating. I'm very curious about your impressions of it by those of you have tried it after the latest firmware update. Worth an receiver upgrade right now because it's so impressive? Or just another DSP "gimmick" like those loaded on to Yamaha models? Or somewhere in between? Because of my peaked ceilings and other considerations I'm unlikely to ever have a true Atmos/DTS:X speaker set up. So DTS:x Virtual does intrigue me.
I purchased the ATS 1070 for $160 at Cosco and watched Fast and Furious 8 Blu Ray, Expendables 3 Blu Ray and Super 8 DVD (this movie I used because of the train wreck). This 2018 model has the Virtual X system and the sound was amazing at the 28 loudness range (you can go higher), every sound on the screen was heard when using the DTS X. The surround sound can be regular or 3D Vitural X. The rated it 5 out of 5 stars. I used ARC and the in of the sound bar from the Blue Ray player. My TV is a 1080P and the Blu Ray, player sounded amazing also. For my Direct TV I used the non-Virtual surround sound. My TV is a 1080P 4 year old Samsung 60 incher. I use Marsielle mCable from the Blu ray player to the Yahama in sound bar and a chocolate 2.5% silver hdmi out from sound bar to the TV. This sound bar is no gimmick it is for real.
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post #10 of 11 Old 02-18-2018, 11:56 PM
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I am denon 4300h. Looks like no virtual x for us for now. Its cool; but dont realy need it when i use atmos or atmos upmix dsu; dtsX or dts:neuralX. Both upmix great for non sources. I am 5.1.4. VirtualX is cool for 2,3,5,7 traditional speaker setups though and sound bars.
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post #11 of 11 Old 11-29-2018, 05:06 PM
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FWIW, I tried out Virtual X on my 9.1.6 setup (I had to disable height speakers before the option would show up). It does NOT appear to work with any kind of Dolby signal tracks (i.e. you can use Neural X with Dolby 2.0-7.1, but not Virtual X). It does seem to work with all DTS 5.1 and on up.

Frankly, all in all, it's pretty AMAZING how well it works, at least from the MLP. It was almost as convincing as my actual height speakers, maybe even a little more "tight" with the object demo than the real ones. The call out demo had obvious "bleed through" to the lower speakers (sounded kind of like both playing at the same time with a bit more near the ceiling).

If it had worked with Dolby signals too, I would say it's a real winner and I'd consider getting a receiver for my upstairs Carver system (using Klipsch surrounds on a limited basis; it's mostly for music). It'd be sweet to have simulated 5.1.4 that's believable. The problem is I have over 40 Atmos titles and only 22 DTS X ones. Given it can also upmix with Neural X, I do have a lot of DTS material from regular 5.1 and 7.1 Blu-Rays that would work. I'm not sure it's worth the bother without Dolby support, though (I suppose it would depend on the price of the AVR, which would have to replace one of my power amps so it would need at least 180 watts into 4 Ohms).

Certainly, I would say if you cannot use height speakers of any kind (and IMO those "enabled 'bouncy" speakers are questionable at best), this certainly gives the impression of full height support (again at least from centered positions in the room; I have 6 seats in my home theater right now and 3 of them are in the center in a 3 row line; I didn't test the other three seats) and it beats just bed level speakers. All in all it's very impressive. Too bad it doesn't work with Dolby signals (at least the 5.1-7.1 variety).

I'm also not sure, offhand if it will work with systems with "some" height speakers (i.e. I didn't test a 7.1.2 configuration, for example. It didn't offer it with 7.1.4 set up in the Amp assign table, but it did with 7.1 only).
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