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post #1 of 76 Old 11-23-2017, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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High SPL speaker options for concert HT?

Trying to put together an HT system that excels in concert BR/DVD playback with that front row like feeling. I've been at this for years and am about to start a small 15x19 room with seating distance 10' from the AT screen. Budget and size of room is making me list my JBL M2 w/Crown iTech 5000hd amps for sale. So essentially I am starting with a clean slate.

I'm pretty sensitive to harsh highs but have never used an EQ to modify the standard settings within the Pre/pro, I've also never used any room acoustical treatments.....I know. That would probably fix all my issues. Anyway....I'm wondering if there are high SPL speakers with something other than a compression or horn driver. I love the silky smooth sound of the Focal 1038be but that's way out of my budget for 3 of those plus amps and all the other needed equipment.

I've had JTR 212, Cat 12, JTR 215RT and now the M2. Considering JBL 708p for LCR and probably the 705p for surrounds in addition to a sub or two.

Any other speakers I should be looking at for this project? A quick look at a few B&W had them rated at 89dB. That's just not going to cut it for me. I need some serious output to make it feel like I'm sitting in the front row of a concert, yet without harsh highs.

Thoughts?

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post #2 of 76 Old 11-23-2017, 08:50 AM
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Build a set of DIYSG 1899s. Sensitivity somewhere around 101-103ish. Two 18”s in each speaker. Plenty of amazing mid bass.
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post #3 of 76 Old 11-23-2017, 09:03 AM - Thread Starter
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I have zero, possibly negative DIY skills so that isn't an option for me.

The PowerSoundAudio looks very similar to the JTR speakers I've had previously. Am I missing something in their performance compared to the JTR line?
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post #4 of 76 Old 11-23-2017, 09:04 AM
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Tekton.
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post #5 of 76 Old 11-23-2017, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by leecreek View Post
Tekton.

I'm intrigued. Never heard of them before.
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post #6 of 76 Old 11-23-2017, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post
I have zero, possibly negative DIY skills so that isn't an option for me.

The PowerSoundAudio looks very similar to the JTR speakers I've had previously. Am I missing something in their performance compared to the JTR line?
Looking at specs only and having followed a few threads, I suspect the answer depends on the JTR speaker you are looking at. The only thing that gives me pause about the PSA on paper is that they appear to fall off a cliff at 80Hz. If you are concerned about having an octave of headroom below an 80Hz crossover then that might be a limitation. Otherwise the specs and user reports seem very favorable for the price point.

The other option is JBL Studio 590s for under $500 bucks on close out. Harmon has been clearing stock on eBay to close this line out. Watch for this sale.
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post #7 of 76 Old 11-23-2017, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I'd get Cat12s again if I could find a really good deal on preowned.
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post #8 of 76 Old 11-23-2017, 12:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post
Trying to put together an HT system that excels in concert BR/DVD playback with that front row like feeling. I've been at this for years and am about to start a small 15x19 room with seating distance 10' from the AT screen. Budget and size of room is making me list my JBL M2 w/Crown iTech 5000hd amps for sale. So essentially I am starting with a clean slate.

I'm pretty sensitive to harsh highs but have never used an EQ to modify the standard settings within the Pre/pro, I've also never used any room acoustical treatments.....I know. That would probably fix all my issues. Anyway....I'm wondering if there are high SPL speakers with something other than a compression or horn driver. I love the silky smooth sound of the Focal 1038be but that's way out of my budget for 3 of those plus amps and all the other needed equipment.

I've had JTR 212, Cat 12, JTR 215RT and now the M2. Considering JBL 708p for LCR and probably the 705p for surrounds in addition to a sub or two.

Any other speakers I should be looking at for this project? A quick look at a few B&W had them rated at 89dB. That's just not going to cut it for me. I need some serious output to make it feel like I'm sitting in the front row of a concert, yet without harsh highs.

Thoughts?
May I ask what was wrong with the jtr speakers you heard? Did you not like their mid-range clarity? Or was it their high-frequency clarity that you had a problem with? Did they have harsh highs to you? Also what was it about the JBL M2 speakers that you did not like?
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post #9 of 76 Old 11-23-2017, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LumensLover View Post
May I ask what was wrong with the jtr speakers you heard? Did you not like their mid-range clarity? Or was it their high-frequency clarity that you had a problem with? Did they have harsh highs to you? Also what was it about the JBL M2 speakers that you did not like?
Actually they are were really awesome, especially when I heard them in other theaters. My "problem" is I'm a plug and play guy with zero acoustical treatments. The JTR 212 with subs were really incredible, that system kicked some serious ass. The 215RT were kind of ideal but I moved and had no need for 3 speakers. The M2's are killer in every way, but in my current family room with stone and about 14 windows the room isn't doing any speaker any favors. I like the M2s so much I bought them 2x. I bet with a little effort in my family room they would be perfect. Oh, bought the Revel Salon 2 as well, keep them for about 5 days. Hated them, they had zero mid/lows.

For simplicity the JBL 708p might be the right choice for me to handle the LCR duties.
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post #10 of 76 Old 11-23-2017, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post
Trying to put together an HT system that excels in concert BR/DVD playback with that front row like feeling. I've been at this for years and am about to start a small 15x19 room with seating distance 10' from the AT screen. Budget and size of room is making me list my JBL M2 w/Crown iTech 5000hd amps for sale. So essentially I am starting with a clean slate.

I'm pretty sensitive to harsh highs but have never used an EQ to modify the standard settings within the Pre/pro, I've also never used any room acoustical treatments.....I know. That would probably fix all my issues. Anyway....I'm wondering if there are high SPL speakers with something other than a compression or horn driver. I love the silky smooth sound of the Focal 1038be but that's way out of my budget for 3 of those plus amps and all the other needed equipment.

I've had JTR 212, Cat 12, JTR 215RT and now the M2. Considering JBL 708p for LCR and probably the 705p for surrounds in addition to a sub or two.

Any other speakers I should be looking at for this project? A quick look at a few B&W had them rated at 89dB. That's just not going to cut it for me. I need some serious output to make it feel like I'm sitting in the front row of a concert, yet without harsh highs.

Thoughts?
Hi,

I will let some other people advise you with respect to specific speakers, but there are two other aspects of this that I would like to pick-up on. First, if you have some high frequency ringing in your room (slap echo) and you are specifically sensitive to high frequencies to start with, then the answer to your dilemma is not going to lie entirely with your speaker selection. You seriously need to reduce the ringing in the room.

I am not advocating putting acoustic treatments specifically at first reflection points, or anything like that. But, if you can stand in the room, clap your hands sharply, and hear an echo, then that excess mid and high-frequency energy bouncing around in your room is going to strongly influence what you hear. Putting some softening influences in the room, via decorative acoustical panels or some other means, would have a significant impact on the high frequencies you hear with any speakers. Ringing is not our friend, particularly at high listening levels.

The second comment I would add is that, although automated room correction is not usually terribly helpful with high frequencies, you do have some user control in most AVP's. The tone controls implemented in most modern AVP's and AVR's only affect the front speakers. But, you can use the treble control to roll-off high frequencies a little.

I would recommend adding some softening influences to the room, irrespective of whatever new speakers you get. The combination of sensitivity to high frequencies, and a preference for Reference volumes, makes that imperative in my opinion. But, as an interim measure, or a permanent one depending on the circumstances, I would also consider the judicious use of the tone control.

Regards,
Mike
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post #11 of 76 Old 11-23-2017, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post
Trying to put together an HT system that excels in concert BR/DVD playback with that front row like feeling. I've been at this for years and am about to start a small 15x19 room with seating distance 10' from the AT screen. Budget and size of room is making me list my JBL M2 w/Crown iTech 5000hd amps for sale. So essentially I am starting with a clean slate.

I'm pretty sensitive to harsh highs but have never used an EQ to modify the standard settings within the Pre/pro, I've also never used any room acoustical treatments.....I know. That would probably fix all my issues. Anyway....I'm wondering if there are high SPL speakers with something other than a compression or horn driver. I love the silky smooth sound of the Focal 1038be but that's way out of my budget for 3 of those plus amps and all the other needed equipment.

I've had JTR 212, Cat 12, JTR 215RT and now the M2. Considering JBL 708p for LCR and probably the 705p for surrounds in addition to a sub or two.

Any other speakers I should be looking at for this project? A quick look at a few B&W had them rated at 89dB. That's just not going to cut it for me. I need some serious output to make it feel like I'm sitting in the front row of a concert, yet without harsh highs.

Thoughts?
Your speakers need a new room , you don't need new speakers .. Pic a different room if possible.

I have a living rm with wood floors , two big windows , a patio door, and huge cathedral ceiling that is open to a loft etc.. I've had a few different speakers in there and all sound about the same ... not very good except for back ground music .

I can't see you being happy without spending some money on room treatments .

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post #12 of 76 Old 11-23-2017, 02:57 PM
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Hi,



The second comment I would add is that, although automated room correction is not usually terribly helpful with high frequencies, you do have some user control in most AVP's. The tone controls implemented in most modern AVP's and AVR's only affect the front speakers. But, you can use the treble control to roll-off high frequencies a little.

In my experience with the Klipsch Reference II line is that Audyssey does EQ out some harshness. My hearing is not the best, but they sounded MUCH better with Audyssey on than off to me. No harshness at all with Audyssey on, just pure ear damaging goodness. So, if he isn't using his roomeq, I think it's worth his time to try instead of buying speaker after speaker. If I had a set of M2, I would definitely want to do a little experimentation before getting rid of them.
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post #13 of 76 Old 11-23-2017, 03:17 PM
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I have a set of Tekton Double Impacts/w Upgrades on order for the EXACT reason you are (looking for). I'm coming from Ascend Raal Towers, which are a damn good speaker . Absolutely loved them, and Dave and Dina are awesome to work with ... I just want to try these Tektons out. I think for this particular purpose, they may be better .... I'll let ya know .. One is 91 sensitivity, one is 98. Time will tell


2nd of all, trash that Audessy, and set your system up with the Equalizer.. Do it all by ear, and don't be afraid to turn the subs up, when it gets to hot ( boomy) turn'em down a tad .. That's how I roll, and I can say the Auddessy verse your own brew is going to make you smile ..Remember, Auddessy is trying to make everything neutral, which to me sounds dead, lifeless, with no impact...Especially on Concerts.... Like someone just took 2/3rds of your amps power away... Not what I like, some do ... to each his own
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post #14 of 76 Old 11-23-2017, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
In my experience with the Klipsch Reference II line is that Audyssey does EQ out some harshness. My hearing is not the best, but they sounded MUCH better with Audyssey on than off to me. No harshness at all with Audyssey on, just pure ear damaging goodness. So, if he isn't using his roomeq, I think it's worth his time to try instead of buying speaker after speaker. If I had a set of M2, I would definitely want to do a little experimentation before getting rid of them.

I'm glad that Audyssey is working well for you that way. It is sometimes difficult to predict what automated room correction will do above about 1000Hz. A lot depends on the particular room. If you are using the Audyssey Reference curve, that may also partly explain why it makes your Klipsch speakers sound less bright, as the Reference curve rolls-off high frequencies above 10,000Hz for all of the speakers. Reducing the treble tone control starts a mild roll-off much lower than that (I think about 4000Hz) and only affects the front speakers, but the effect can be similar.

Regards,
Mike
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post #15 of 76 Old 11-23-2017, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post
Trying to put together an HT system that excels in concert BR/DVD playback with that front row like feeling. ... Thoughts?
You might want to take a look at this thread and the associated data:

List of Reference Level, High Sensitivity & SPL Speakers

I don't know if the spreadsheet is being maintained or if any of the speakers listed in the spreadsheet are still available or within your budget.
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post #16 of 76 Old 11-23-2017, 04:25 PM
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do you have a budget? JBL professional horns ARE the reference for exactly what you're speaking of. Any of the array speakers ... or the k2s9900 ... unbelievable.

Actually ..any of the synthesis line speakers are phenomenal.

I have a pair of everest 96db efficient that will blow the doors off your house.

BTW ..don't let the sensitivity discourage you from greatness.

id shy away from anything BW if you are truly after that "concert" feeling.

purchase the ATI 6007 series 300w x7 rms with all channels driven amplifier .. you won't be able to sit in the same room with 87db speakers.

perhaps you have 4ohm speakers ..if thats the case .. 600w rms x7 with all channels driven.. !!!!

its fair to say I'm partial to JBL horns.. but I've yet to have a guest leave without a smile after listing in with me.

Pick up a SACD capable player (if you don't have one aleady) and get Peter Frampton Comes Alive! and Ted Nugents self titled album ... WIN! yes sir...

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post #17 of 76 Old 11-23-2017, 05:01 PM
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Someone mentioned JBL 590. They are not that sensitive so I doubt would work well for high SPL.
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post #18 of 76 Old 11-23-2017, 05:56 PM
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post #19 of 76 Old 11-24-2017, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by love_that_sound View Post
do you have a budget? JBL professional horns ARE the reference for exactly what you're speaking of. Any of the array speakers ... or the k2s9900 ... unbelievable.

Actually ..any of the synthesis line speakers are phenomenal.

I have a pair of everest 96db efficient that will blow the doors off your house.

BTW ..don't let the sensitivity discourage you from greatness.

id shy away from anything BW if you are truly after that "concert" feeling.

purchase the ATI 6007 series 300w x7 rms with all channels driven amplifier .. you won't be able to sit in the same room with 87db speakers.

perhaps you have 4ohm speakers ..if thats the case .. 600w rms x7 with all channels driven.. !!!!

its fair to say I'm partial to JBL horns.. but I've yet to have a guest leave without a smile after listing in with me.

Pick up a SACD capable player (if you don't have one aleady) and get Peter Frampton Comes Alive! and Ted Nugents self titled album ... WIN! yes sir...

I have that ATI amp your speaking of ... LOVE ... ! And the Tektons are 4 ohms so it should be just the ticket ... Also, to OP, pick up Pretenders Live at LA and the Eagles Farewell Tour double set ... Both are mixed very well with pounding impact and stellar mids and sizzling highs ..
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post #20 of 76 Old 11-24-2017, 09:49 AM
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Someone mentioned JBL 590. They are not that sensitive so I doubt would work well for high SPL.
92db. But they are cheap right now. I agree if he is comparing JTR and Seaton Cats these might disappoint, but they are not $2-4k a speaker and I just tossed them out as a budget option.
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post #21 of 76 Old 11-24-2017, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I love my M2's but they just won't work for this application, plus they are eating up a huge portion of my budget. Only way to keep them would be to get the 708p for center and really inexpensive rear/surrounds. Or, sell the M2's, start from scratch and have possibly an all 708p system. Not opposed to other options either. Having the cash from selling the M2's I feel gives me more options at this point. Not matter what I do, sub(s), rear/surrounds and amps will still need to be purchased.

If there were inexpensive side/rear speakers I could use for a while before upgrading to 705/8 p for surrounds I would consider keeping the M2s for L&R and pick up the 708p for center duties. At that point I feel like its a completely mismatched system all to keep the M2s. Is it worth it?

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post #22 of 76 Old 11-24-2017, 01:57 PM
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IMO, I'd say keep the M2's. Especially since you sold them once before and ended up getting them again. I can't really imagine that many situations where the Cat 12C would work for an application that the M2's won't work for, unless you just really want the amps in the speaker cabinets or the slightly smaller size of the Cat 12C's is pivotal. Use the JBL LSR308's for surround duty for now if you have to and use a 708p for a center.

That's just my opinion, I can't imagine going from M2's to one of the speakers listed and being satisfied.
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post #23 of 76 Old 11-24-2017, 06:30 PM
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High spl speaker and 708? You have owned speakers that could play 120 dB and thinking of some that can?t. I would say they are disqualified for concert level speakers. Do you really play at concert levels for highs? What do you consider concert levels?
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post #24 of 76 Old 11-25-2017, 05:33 AM
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SeaNile, what are you using for room correction. The M2s shouldn’t be corrected above 500hz.
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post #25 of 76 Old 11-26-2017, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post
Actually they are were really awesome, especially when I heard them in other theaters. My "problem" is I'm a plug and play guy with zero acoustical treatments. The JTR 212 with subs were really incredible, that system kicked some serious ass. The 215RT were kind of ideal but I moved and had no need for 3 speakers. The M2's are killer in every way, but in my current family room with stone and about 14 windows the room isn't doing any speaker any favors. I like the M2s so much I bought them 2x. I bet with a little effort in my family room they would be perfect. Oh, bought the Revel Salon 2 as well, keep them for about 5 days. Hated them, they had zero mid/lows.

For simplicity the JBL 708p might be the right choice for me to handle the LCR duties.
I find myself considering either 215's, 212's, or M2's for my next move. It's not often that you come across someone who has had all three of them.

The speaker I have loved the most in my room is the B&W 802 D2 (I kind of regret selling them actually). I understand the general dislike for B&W amongst the high SPL crowd, but if great sounding, open and smooth tweeters are something you're after, the B&W Diamond tweeter is at the top of the heap. The cost of 800 series speakers turns a lot of people off (want concert levels? The 800 D3 can do that, as long as you have 30 grand to spare), especially DIY guys, but arguing that they don't sound spectacular is usually done by those without much experience with them.

Anyway, since the JTR's and M2's are nearly impossible to demo, I was wondering if you have ever had the chance to compare them directly to diamond tweetered speakers? Are the horns really that harsh? Reading your posts in this thread it would seem you think they are. If so, that would make me reconsider those options. I have only ever heard lesser expensive speakers with horns (except for in commercial theaters obviously), and haven't been exactly wowed. They all sound honkey/hands cupped in the upper midrange....but, I haven't heard the JTR or M2 iterations.

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post #26 of 76 Old 11-26-2017, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
I find myself considering either 215's, 212's, or M2's for my next move. It's not often that you come across someone who has had all three of them.

The speaker I have loved the most in my room is the B&W 802 D2 (I kind of regret selling them actually). I understand the general dislike for B&W amongst the high SPL crowd, but if great sounding, open and smooth tweeters are something you're after, the B&W Diamond tweeter is at the top of the heap. The cost of 800 series speakers turns a lot of people off (want concert levels? The 800 D3 can do that, as long as you have 30 grand to spare), especially DIY guys, but arguing that they don't sound spectacular is usually done by those without much experience with them.

Anyway, since the JTR's and M2's are nearly impossible to demo, I was wondering if you have ever had the chance to compare them directly to diamond tweetered speakers? Are the horns really that harsh? Reading your posts in this thread it would seem you think they are. If so, that would make me reconsider those options. I have only ever heard lesser expensive speakers with horns (except for in commercial theaters obviously), and haven't been exactly wowed. They all sound honkey/hands cupped in the upper midrange....but, I haven't heard the JTR or M2 iterations.
I can't speak to the JTR's, but I've owned the Seaton Catalyst 12C's, and brought them to @Gooddoc 's to compare them against the M2's. Gooddoc had JTR speakers and told me he liked the Cat 12C's more than the JTR's, but the M2's are in a different league. After hearing the Seaton Cat 12C's A/B-ed blindly against the M2's, I would have to agree. The M2's are definitely remarkable and the last words I would use to describe the high frequencies are "harsh." Definitely not honkey at all.

You bringing up the diamonds reminded me of this I remember reading when I was researching the M2's.

https://www.audiophilenirvana.com/au...onitor-review/
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post #27 of 76 Old 11-26-2017, 04:14 PM
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I can't speak to the JTR's, but I've owned the Seaton Catalyst 12C's, and brought them to @Gooddoc 's to compare them against the M2's. Gooddoc had JTR speakers and told me he liked the Cat 12C's more than the JTR's, but the M2's are in a different league. After hearing the Seaton Cat 12C's A/B-ed blindly against the M2's, I would have to agree. The M2's are definitely remarkable and the last words I would use to describe the high frequencies are "harsh." Definitely not honkey at all.

You bringing up the diamonds reminded me of this I remember reading when I was researching the M2's.

https://www.audiophilenirvana.com/au...onitor-review/

Interesting. I remember reading that link about the M2's when they were pretty new, but forgot the part about the 802's. Call me skeptical about horns stacking up to diamond domes...I wish someone would have THAT shootout. It would be fun. As far as I know, the only real shootouts between Harman and B&W are usually hosted by Harman and feature the Salon 2 vs the older 802 Diamond.

Speaking of shootouts, there is a huge thread around here somewhere with the Salon 2's vs the M2 in a blind shootout, with the Salon 2 winning handily. I have heard neither, but the results do reinforce my skepticism of horns.

FWIW I don't 100% trust anything Harman says anyway, especially if they have to sell it with their "white papers"...and let me just address anyone who falls for their "the research led to the designs, not the other way around" line before they chime in by saying their marketing was obviously effective on you.

JTR on the other hand, I have heard or read ZERO negative chatter about, which is odd. It definitely does get my interest. They ARE ugly, so there's that I guess....but the M2's no walk in the park on that front either.

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post #28 of 76 Old 11-26-2017, 04:20 PM
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Interesting. I remember reading that link about the M2's when they were pretty new, but forgot the part about the 802's. Call me skeptical about horns stacking up to diamond domes...I wish someone would have THAT shootout. It would be fun. As far as I know, the only real shootouts between Harman and B&W are usually hosted by Harman and feature the Salon 2 vs the older 802 Diamond.

Speaking of shootouts, there is a huge thread around here somewhere with the Salon 2's vs the M2 in a blind shootout, with the Salon 2 winning handily. I have heard neither, but the results do reinforce my skepticism of horns.

FWIW I don't 100% trust anything Harman says anyway, especially if they have to sell it with their "white papers"...and let me just address anyone who falls for their "the research led to the designs, not the other way around" line before they chime in by saying their marketing was obviously effective on you.

JTR on the other hand, I have heard or read ZERO negative chatter about, which is odd. It definitely does get my interest. They ARE ugly, so there's that I guess....but the M2's no walk in the park on that front either.
sound is completely subjective. I've listened to everything under the sun and can both hear and identify jbl horns above everything else. As a matter of fact - nearly everything else sounds the same to me v. the horns.

I've yet to hear a pair of BW speakers that sound anything more than dull and extremely muddy (much like McIntosh amplifiers). OFC i don't eq speakers either, which would likely benefit most anything.

I don't trust white papers .. only what I hear and feel.

the single biggest most common mistake people make is trusting or relying upon reviews over their own ears. Nobody can tell you what something is supposed to sound like any better than one attempting to convince you that pizza hut is better than dominos (where in reality both suck).

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post #29 of 76 Old 11-26-2017, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post

Speaking of shootouts, there is a huge thread around here somewhere with the Salon 2's vs the M2 in a blind shootout, with the Salon 2 winning handily. I have heard neither, but the results do reinforce my skepticism of horns.
That's a bit unfair, the Salon 2 did win, but not because people disliked the M2, but because people liked the Revel slightly better.
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post #30 of 76 Old 11-26-2017, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
Interesting. I remember reading that link about the M2's when they were pretty new, but forgot the part about the 802's. Call me skeptical about horns stacking up to diamond domes...I wish someone would have THAT shootout. It would be fun. As far as I know, the only real shootouts between Harman and B&W are usually hosted by Harman and feature the Salon 2 vs the older 802 Diamond.

Speaking of shootouts, there is a huge thread around here somewhere with the Salon 2's vs the M2 in a blind shootout, with the Salon 2 winning handily. I have heard neither, but the results do reinforce my skepticism of horns.

FWIW I don't 100% trust anything Harman says anyway, especially if they have to sell it with their "white papers"...and let me just address anyone who falls for their "the research led to the designs, not the other way around" line before they chime in by saying their marketing was obviously effective on you.

JTR on the other hand, I have heard or read ZERO negative chatter about, which is odd. It definitely does get my interest. They ARE ugly, so there's that I guess....but the M2's no walk in the park on that front either.
I wouldn't blame you if you were skeptical. I would be to if I didn't hear/own them, but I can't compare them to the diamond tweeters on the B&W's, I've never heard them. I don't think the Salon 2's won handily if my memory serves, they were both very highly regarded from what I remember reading, although the Salon2's did win. If I recall correctly, John who conducted the test said he prefers the Salon 2's for orchestral music and the M2's sound great for close mic-ed recordings.

I haven't heard anything negative about the JTR's, Cat 12C's or the M2's. Just some people that have preferences, but nothing outright bad. The research is one thing, all the praise I've read about them was another thing, and me finally auditioning them and directly comparing them against my current speakers (Seaton Cat 12C's) is what sealed the deal, and I have no regrets. Definitely one of the best speakers I've ever heard. The enormous output and dynamics they have on top of it is what made me go through everything I did to get them into my theater room.

I'm all for a blind test against the B&W 800 D3's and the M2's/Salon2's. That's the type of stuff I like reading
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