Poll: Is Bose Bashing Justified? - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
View Poll Results: Is Bose bashing justified?
Yes 273 66.91%
No 135 33.09%
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post #91 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unretarded View Post
The problem is ....Bose is just a uneducated consumer level product marketed as high end audiophallic bliss.


That's like the difference between a Kirkland jacket to a Patagonia jacket, except Bose is Kirkland, but thinks it is Patagonia.
Respectfully disagree with the Kirkland comparison. With very few exceptions, Costco only puts that label on true premium brands. And in many cases, things that perform on par with ultra-premium brands. Last year, they released a Kirkland golf ball that was arguably superior to the best ball used by PGA Tour players (Titleist Pro V1).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikmat.../#67cc14621ef6

I'd generally consider Kirkland products on par with Patagonia. And the golf ball? It was the Arc'Teryx of the golf world, at half the price. Great to the point that Titleist (Arc'Teryx) threatened a lawsuit, forcing Costco to litigate first.

Related note: I just picked up a Marmot down jacket at Costco for $129.95. I'm incredibly impressed. Provides me with a good option for going places where I am worried about losing my Dead Bird stuff (e.g. bars).

To my knowledge, Bose still uses cardboard toilet paper tube materials to build many of its speakers. Until then, it will always be low brow.

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I have a Bose system in my vehicle (factory upgrade option) and I think it sounds pretty nice for what it is. Given the imperfect listening environment that is a vehicle (with road noise, attention being paid more to the driving than to the listening, etc) it gets the job done well, and certainly sounds better than the base stock system.
The Bose system in my ChevyTrailBlazer LTZ a few years back was amazing. Literally, better than the system in my Grand Cherokee with (lower-end Access 165) Focals and JL Audio amp. Midbass on that Bose system was amazing. Amazing to the point that I doubt they were involved in designing it--probably just sold GM the name

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post #92 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by emerson1 View Post
If someone you know is thinking about buying a Bose product, what's the best way in layman's terms to explain why they should go with an alternative?
The easy answer is to let them listen to other systems in the same price range.
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post #93 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 11:15 AM
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I have used their noise cancelling headphones for years. Love them. Makes 12 hour flights almost bearable.
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post #94 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 11:28 AM
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I have some Bose headphones and a portable bluetooth speaker and they sound good for the money I paid. Some of the bashing is probably a little over done and I am one of the most guilty. When someone show off their new Bose system I really have to bite my tongue so as to not insult them. Having read some other history on the brand, they actually started off in a good place but settled in the lifestyle space; at least for HT. If you are not the type that wants to spend the time to research and just wants something that works Bose will get the job done at a premium price and make a significant number of people very happy until they know better. Sometimes we forget that the people in the forums are usually the exception and not the rule.
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post #95 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
As long as it sounds better than the TV or clock radio and is tiny--it is close enough. Bose was smart enough to know that sound quality does not sell speakers, great specs don't either... marketing does!
This comment reminded me of when I bought a Panasonic plasma TV for the living room. I had planned on buying Definitive Technology Pro-Monitor 800's and a Pro-Center 1000 as a 3.1 system in a few days, but in the meantime I was trying to find a temporary solution to the crappy TV speakers. I had a Bose Wave radio upstairs in the bedroom so I figured, "Hey, the Bose Wave radio has to sound better than the cheap TV speakers, right?" Brought the Wave radio down and hooked it up. Did a sound comparison between the Bose Wave radio and the crappy TV speakers. Well, the Bose Wave radio was brought back upstairs, relegated to it's role as an alarm clock, having lost the battle to the crappy TV speakers. I was surprised myself.
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post #96 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 12:00 PM
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Here are my measurements of the Bose ST300, AM300, VI300... The dip in the 65Hz region is related due to the measurement position as you can see in multi-position-measurement.

I use a Canton Ergo 5.2.4 Set in my living room and use the Bose System in my bedroom, I really have to say, that I was really impressed by the sound it can deliver, it's a nice looking small system with an unnatural but big soundstage.
It's not real "HiFi" but it's fun to listen to it.

Living room System: Ergo 2x695DC, 1x655, 2x620 and 4x610 Heights, 2xSVS PB13-Ultra, Denon X4300H

I always had the same opinion as most of the other Bose-bashers, it's not the best price/sound ratio, but in terms of Soundbar/Sub Combo in a sleek Design, maybe one of the best I've heard.
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post #97 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 12:26 PM
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The Bose technology and speakers aren't horrible, nor are they great. But they sure are a total rip-off at the prices they charge. They should be a fraction of what they are. There are many other HT systems that are far cheaper and better and have a lot more configuration options. The little cube speakers have a novelty factor, but you give up a lot of quality by sticking your mid-range in the Acoustimass module. They would probably be an OK compact system at $350, but they certainly aren't worth $1000. The headphones and car audio though, are actually pretty decent, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy those products if I had a need for them.
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post #98 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 12:40 PM
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The bashing should be targeted at the consumer. Bose is a private business. They're job is to make money. In the age of the internet, there is no excuse for not researching a product before buying it. Now is Bose being ethical with its business practices? No, but if the consumer was educated, they would have to make a better product, lower the prices to be more competitive or go out of business.
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post #99 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 12:44 PM
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That may be right for the Jewel-Cubes but not for the ST300.
What's really good about bose is the great integration of the AM300, it's really hard to localize it.
The soundtouch feature is good and the adaptiq works very well, I wouldn't spend 3000$ for a Bose System but the
1550€ (incl.20%tax) for the ST300/AM300/VI300 Combo was "okay".

I've done some measurements of the AM300 and it's really a good performing "Sub" for it's size, although the price tag's a bit hefty.

Here is a measurement without the AM300:
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post #100 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 01:03 PM
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Back in the late 1960's my voice teach who would later sing at the Met bought a set of the original and highly reviewed 901's to replace a pair of Quad electrostatic speakers that had been stolen (along with a Quad amp and preamp and Uher tape deck). His new system also had an AR amp, AR turntable and Revox A77 tape deck. All this was good stuff in it's day.

He thought they sounded good.

Of course, jokingly he pronounced the manufacturer "Booze."
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post #101 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 01:05 PM
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Only Bose products I have ever bought is the audio system in a second hand car. I don't think it's particularly bad but I never would have paid the upgrade cost to get it.

I was exposed to quite a few of their speakers back in the 70's, some of those didn't sound bad either but were way over priced. I've always looked for the best price performance ratio so have never been tempted to buy Bose. I remember looking at their home radio boom boxes and the base unit was over priced and if you wanted a CD player in it that was about $300 increase. At the time you could buy a CD drive for a PC for ~$25 retail so Bose was marking up the hardware about 2,500%. Seems a little excessive.

I very much put Bose and Apple in the same category. Wildly over priced, built with cheap hardware put into easy to use products with glossy packaging and then marketed to the Nth degree. I've noticed all those NFL coach's with their Bose headphones on and wondered how much they pay the NFL for all that product placement.
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post #102 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 01:14 PM
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I upgraded the generic sound system in my car with an optionnal bose sound system after demoing both and subjectively believing the bose setup was a nice upgrade versus the cheaper baseline system whose maker I cannot remember.

I certainly fully agree with the analogy between Bose and Apple though. Marketing works.

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post #103 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 01:23 PM
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I've done my fair share of Bose bashing over the years, and a lot of it has been justified.

That being said, it's only fair to see them now in terms of their current flagship product, which is the QC headphone series.

I'm an audio guy at heart, with the history to prove it. But the QC35 is simply the best "everyday carry" I've tried. I wear mine almost all day, every workday - in an open-concept office, for music, for Siri/Alexa, as my primary teleconferencing tool, for podcasts, commuting in trains and airplanes - and as a complete product concept, they are hands-down one of my favorite tech purchases ever.

They just work. They're comfortable, durable, connect quickly when a client calls unexpectedly, switch from music to calls and back when they should, all the while delivering audio that's unobtrusive, pleasurable, and not needlessly fatiguing for all-day listening. I was honestly shocked when I first tried them last year, and they still put a smile on my face every time I put them on.

Bose still has some silly products, but I can't really bash them now that the QCs are on a (very short) list of indispensable things that get me through my day.
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post #104 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 01:31 PM
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Bose' headphone and earphone products are pretty good. I'm a semi-audiophile, and have owned 2 pairs in Bose in-ears so far which have impressed me for the price. I was listening to some soundtracks on the Soundsports that I have now, and with repeated listenings I keep hearing new details.

Now as far as their *speakers* are concerned... they're probably fair game. I have not heard 'em, but the basic logic of "physics-defying snake oil" rings true. I will say that they may be onto something with their high prices - modern psychology is uncovering fascinating new details about how the price you pay for speakers actually affects how you hear them.
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post #105 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 01:31 PM
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I've long been a Bose basher, from a sense of audio quality for the price paid. It's not that they usually sounded awful, it's just that they didn't sound worth their asking price. Far better choices for less money available and all that.

However I make an exception with their noise cancelling headphones. Understand, I am very sensitive to both headphones and earplugs. My ear canals are sensitive and I cannot wear plugs for very long without experiencing major soreness. Similarly, most headphones tend not to fit my rather large head well. The weight and/or tension is usually too much, even when adjusted to their max size, and I get headaches with prolonged wear.

I've owned and tried a wide variety of headphones and earphones, both wired and bluetooth, looking for something that I can tolerate for more than several minutes at a time. I travel from time to time, and long flights can be unbearable with everything I've tried. I really wanted bluetooth in particular, but in addition to the aforementioned physical discomforts, I've have had some kind of drawback with every BT set I've tried, whether it was audio quality, signal/pairing stability, or battery life.

I recently gambled on a set of QC 35 headphones after exhaustive research and a killer sale. I held my nose slightly at the Bose name, but the reviews were near unanimous in their praise. These headphones not only offer excellent noise cancellation, battery life, and bluetooth performance (along with a handy iOS app) but their light weight, light tension (even on my generous noggin') and incredibly comfortable ear cups are a dream to wear. I can finally wear headphones for hours. Do they produce the highest fidelity, best quality audio? No, but I'm not a purist either. They sound plenty great for me, and combined with their physical comfort, I don't believe there's a better choice out there for the price, especially given the deal I found (about $200).

So while I'll likely continue to avoid their external audio products, they've got this comfortable headphone thing pretty well figured out. I'm a convert at least.
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post #106 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 01:37 PM
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havent given bose a chance since 80's...dont think the offer anything i want now. can they even get ccar stereo right in the auto industry? my dads new superduty has sony in it....bblah

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post #107 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 01:37 PM
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Not justified. I have a Soundlink Mini that I really like. I also have their computer speakers (with Sub) which is outstanding. And their QC headphones w/ noise cancellation are very nice. It?s way more than just good marketing - they do make very good stuff. Granted, their home stereo is not competitive with high end components but it?s decent. Good company - I like Bose a lot and I?m not ashamed to admit it.
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post #108 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 01:58 PM
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Back in the mid 70's a friend of mine had the 901's. I thought they sounded really great compared to what was out there back then. But at about $1000 in the 70's, there was no way I could come close to affording them. Back than I had a Sansui receiver and speakers I purchased in Japan while serving in the Marine Corps. My first high-end receiver was a high gloss Pioneer Elite. I didn't have much left for speakers so I went to Circuit City and purchased Bose 401's. I tried to convince myself the 401's sounded good. While throwing a party one evening, a friend told me I had a great receiver but asked why I had sh*t speakers. a few days later I went with Cerwin Vega AT-12's, which had much more bass but not really audiophile quality. I eventually purchased Paradigm Monitor 7's which I still own to this day. It's been said many times and I agree, that Bose speakers are well overpriced for what you get. They market to the average citizen that really don't know that there are much better choices at the same price point.
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post #109 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 02:06 PM
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The problem is this ...

Lifestyle 650 home entertainment system - $3,999.95

If it sold for what it should ... $1000-1250 maybe ... it wouldn't get bashed.
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post #110 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jekyll_500 View Post
Here are my measurements of the Bose ST300, AM300, VI300... The dip in the 65Hz region is related due to the measurement position as you can see in multi-position-measurement.
Props for posting measurements.
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post #111 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unretarded View Post
The problem is ....Bose is just a uneducated consumer level product marketed as high end audiophallic bliss.


:
Since YOU raised "uneducated" might I point out that any "educated" person would have used the correct form and written "just an uneducated etc."

Pot calling the kettle ??
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post #112 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 03:10 PM
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For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. If you calculate the vast and deep reservoir of misleading Bose marketing over the decades as one action then a vast and deep reservoir of bashing seems a natural and appropriate opposite reaction.

I was fairly neutral on Bose until the big lawsuit. Wasn't especially interested in their products but didn't much care how they went about their business until they started going hard after journalists who wrote any negative comments about Bose speakers in their reviews back in the 1960s. Bose always had aggressive attorneys and threats of legal actions were frequently in the air.

This culminated in the infamous suit against Consumers Union initiated in 1971 back before many reading this were born. Bose made a number of wild claims against Consumers Union and asked the court for $500,000 in damages and a public retraction of what it called a “biased and fraudulent” rating of the 901 speaker in Consumer Reports. A federal district court judge came to the questionable conclusion that Consumers Union should pay Bose $210,000 for allegedly deliberately misrepresenting the speaker's sound.

Amazingly the judge's opinion was based on the editors changing the primary writer's comment that sounds ''moved along the wall'' to ''tended to wander about the room." Fortunately the Supreme Court overturned the judgment with Justice John Paul Stevens writing, ''the difference between hearing violin sounds move around the room and hearing them wander back and forth fits easily within the breathing space that gives life to the First Amendment.''

This Bose lawsuit struck me as an egregious example of a big corporation using its financial and legal muscle to try to stifle freedom of the press. Imagine if every product review in every publication resulted in hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of damages being rewarded on the basis of a minor wording change like that. As it was many publications simply stopped reviewing Bose products as they didn't want to get caught up in a legal case that could cost them thousands of dollars even if they eventually won. With objective reviews discouraged Bose marketing filled the vacuum.

So, yeah, Bose is bad mojo to me for reasons that go beyond its overpriced, overhyped products. The attacks on audio journalists I respected in my early years of what turned into a lifelong hi-fi hobby left a lasting impression that most reading this would probably have trouble relating to. But since it's a public poll I get my grumpy old say just like everyone else.
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post #113 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 03:15 PM
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The Bose Sound is at best smoke and mirrors

Mostly just a bunch of psycho-acoustic trickery that doesn't actually sound very good if you are paying any attention at all, and the price is triple what you'd expect to pay for comparable products. They are marketing genius' over there at Bose, but for what they design and build, it's more like robbery. I mean, sure B&O always was outrageously priced, but it actually sounded pretty good. The Bose stuff is a perfect example of "put a guy in white lab coat and everyone will believe anything he says." The Wave radio may be one of my all-time least favorite AV products...
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post #114 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 03:15 PM
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It's a pleasure to provide those measurements!

I often wondered why there are no Carma or REW Measurements and I have to say that the bedroom is anything but perfect for a proper Hifi-System, but I do get the reflections the ST300 needs to sound really good in that room.

The living room setup is a whole different story, of course it's better in every way, but I didn't want to have a system which tries to sound like the big system and I knew it wouldn't. The bose system sounds totally diffuse but that's totally fine for netflix and Co, also for listening to some tracks, as it really performs well for it's size.
I don't know how they prepare the demo walls in the US but here in europe, the Bass is heavily boosted and doesn't sound as it does in a room after doing the AdaptIQ measurements, there is a emphasasis on bass, but that's also the same with my big system (thanks to the audyssey app ).

28Hz are absolutely okay for a sub this size and it's definitely a better performer than the sonos sub.

Of course the lifestyle systems are heavily overpriced but they do a good job in terms of psychoacoustics, the problem I discovered with a lot of Bose Owners is that they think their systems should sound perfect no matter how the place their speakers, the sub and how to perform a correct measurement. If you do the measurements, as we all know how to do it with Audyssey and Co, it can do a good job.
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post #115 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 03:16 PM
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Many owners of Mazda MX-5 Miatas for about the first decade of this century would go to extreme lengths to perform a Bose-ectomy on their car. You know it's a horrible sound when convertible sports car drivers can't stand the sound of the stereo.
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post #116 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralarcon View Post
Their "Pro stuff" is highly over rated and overpriced , in aviation. I'm a pilot.

Cheers
I'm a pilot too and I wanted to hate the Bose X headsets. About 17 years ago, I ordered five different headsets including a set of Bose X to try. Far and away the Bose were the most comfortable and had the best noise cancellation. Besides getting a pair of Bose X, I did keep a pair of Lightspeeds which were more adjustable (children) and better for women wearing earrings. Bose has also given me exceptional customer service. Friends have similar good things to say about Lightspeed.

I bought the original Infiniti Q45 and the Bose system in it was way better than anything factory that I heard in other cars. A few years later, I did an overnight test drive of a Jeep Grand Cherokee with an Infinity system and it was horrible. The Lexus Levinson system was good and I like the system in my 2013 Hyundai Genesis (Lexicon). My 1995 NSX had a Bose system that was decent for car audio.

I find the upper end small cube systems from Bose a joke but their 300 soundbar seems competitive with Sonus and of similar build quality. As far as what I would get, I would save money and go with the Nakamichi 9.2 system but that's me. Bose looks the part of a $1600 soundbar system with the glass top and has higher WAF.

As for the the comments from people about Apple, data says Apple laptops have half the failure rate of the best PC laptops. I also find their customer service exceptional.

When it comes to home stereo systems I had a pair of Bose 501's in college that were OK for the money but could be blown away by the Larger Advent. After Bose I went with IMF TLS80's and then later with Apogee Divas and never considered Bose.
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post #117 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 03:40 PM
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The nakamichi Shockwafe should be a good performer, but it uses normal techniques rather than using the ribbon-based phase guides like Bose and the subs are for sure not on par with the AM300, the driver in the AM300 looks really capable and it's not a chuffing monster like a lot of Klipsch Subs I've heard in the past years.
Bose should provide all sound formats and more adjusting possibilities, but as far as design and usability goes, their products are quite good.
The sound is not for everyone, but I found the Bose Soundbar to be a better performer than the sonos system, totally different and not the sound most of us are used to, but does this make it a product nearly every Hifi-Enthusiast has to "bash"?
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post #118 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ironsurvivor View Post
Personally i don't like their speakers, but i do enjoy the headphones. I haven't heard noise cancelling better than my QC35s.
Nor have I. HOWEVER, the sound itself is "meh". Not bad, but certainly not great in any way. Light in the bass, simply don't sound very detailed, and considering they are amplified they just don't play very loud. Plus I hate the "pressure-in-my-head" sensation. They ARE tops for jet noise, gotta give 'em that. But if I ever hear anything close to effective with better sound, they go to eBay.
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post #119 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 03:43 PM
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I'm a pilot too and I wanted to hate the Bose X headsets. About 17 years ago, I ordered five different headsets including a set of Bose X to try. Far and away the Bose were the most comfortable and had the best noise cancellation. Besides getting a pair of Bose X, I did keep a pair of Lightspeeds
Which model? And how much difference is there in the noise cancellation?
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post #120 of 261 Old 01-26-2018, 03:48 PM
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Since YOU raised "uneducated" might I point out that any "educated" person would have used the correct form and written "just an uneducated etc."

Pot calling the kettle ??

Except, I did not make any claim of being edumacated........now for a fair comparison would be me as a example, with a schoolin level of 8th grade, trying to pass myself off as a professor.......that is the bose way.




I am sure they make a few decent products, its the whole deception thingy that brings the bashing.
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Link to Stereo Integrity SI HT 18 sub build......https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-pedestal.html
Speakers and subs for sale...https://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...kers-subs.html
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