ELAC Announces Debut 2.0 Speakers - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 1589 Old 03-06-2018, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by genesplitter View Post
I wish all speaker manufactures would include a spinorama or something similar, especially since the new tweeter "Widens up the sweet spot" and an off-axis graph could show that in a great way.
They'd need a better (simpler) way to communicate it than the standard chart, though.

I would imagine the problem with all the measurement questions is that no good deed goes unpunished. If one manufacturer gives detailed measurements, it may make them seem to have worse performance than the other manufacturers which continue to lie about their own specs. Still, I think there is a space in the market for companies to say, you know, we're just not going to lie about our speakers, they can stand up to comparisons. And maybe even help turn the tide a little by educating the customer a little - such as adding one sentence about how to read the specs. It's probably a lot easier for companies like Ascend that do their own sales.
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post #62 of 1589 Old 03-06-2018, 06:34 AM
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My question for Andrew Jones (if he indeed comes and participates in this thread) is -- is there a significant change in the voicing of the tweeter/woofer balance? Frequent complaints of the original debuts were that the highs were a bit too recessed compared to the woofer's output, giving the speakers a distinctly 'dark' sound signature, i.e. proportionally a bit too much bass and not enough highs.


I don't necessarily agree with these complaints, but I'm curious if there has been a significant change in the voicing and/or balance between the woofer and tweeter or if it's about the same as the original debuts. Thanks.

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post #63 of 1589 Old 03-06-2018, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post
My question for Andrew Jones (if he indeed comes and participates in this thread) is -- is there a significant change in the voicing of the tweeter/woofer balance? Frequent complaints of the original debuts were that the highs were a bit too recessed compared to the woofer's output, giving the speakers a distinctly 'dark' sound signature, i.e. proportionally a bit too much bass and not enough highs.


I don't necessarily agree with these complaints, but I'm curious if there has been a significant change in the voicing and/or balance between the woofer and tweeter or if it's about the same as the original debuts. Thanks.

I hope they're quite similar, but with a little more detail up top, but not at all bright. I personally cure the issue with the B6s with placement so to me there're quite balanced the way I like it, but not great for those who want to stick these back against the front wall.
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post #64 of 1589 Old 03-06-2018, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
I hope they're quite similar, but with a little more detail up top, but not at all bright. I personally cure the issue with the B6s with placement so to me there're quite balanced the way I like it, but not great for those who want to stick these back against the front wall.

Yes, I agree with and like the way Andrew generally balances the tweeter/woofer proportions. I'm one who finds most speakers to be too bright and fatiguing to listen to. So I'm curious if there has been a significant change with this in these new debuts, and I would imagine lots of other people want to know that too. I personally hope there isn't a significant change and the balances are similar. Hopefully, Andrew will weigh in.
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post #65 of 1589 Old 03-06-2018, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genesplitter View Post
I wish all speaker manufactures would include a spinorama or something similar, especially since the new tweeter "Widens up the sweet spot" and an off-axis graph could show that in a great way.
there is a prominent speaker designer-founder from a well regarded speaker brand he calls spec sheets lie sheets

that said I like my Elac B6's but anthing like this can be improved.
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post #66 of 1589 Old 03-06-2018, 08:04 AM
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Nice. Was ready to pull the trigger on a 5.1.2 Debut set, but now that these 2.0s will be out shortly - need to decide if I should go for them instead.

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post #67 of 1589 Old 03-06-2018, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzy_ View Post
...no good deed goes unpunished. If one manufacturer gives detailed measurements, it may make them seem to have worse performance than the other manufacturers which continue to lie about their own specs...
I agree 100%, even Harman doesn't give a spinorama for all their speakers, like my JBL Studio 580.
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post #68 of 1589 Old 03-06-2018, 09:49 AM
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But it is a new and different tweeter is it not?
Yes it is.. Brand new tweeter and woofer....

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post #69 of 1589 Old 03-06-2018, 11:00 AM
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Is there anything remotely comparable in this price range?
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post #70 of 1589 Old 03-06-2018, 11:35 AM
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Is there anything remotely comparable in this price range?
Of course.

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post #71 of 1589 Old 03-06-2018, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Mattopotamus View Post
Is there anything remotely comparable in this price range?
The sub-$300 budget category might be the most competitive segment in the market. Incidentally, it's also my favorite segment because of the engineering challenges and the fact that there has been steady (if slow) progress over the decades. I'm happy with my >$1000 speakers, but I enjoy testing out the cheaper ones more. As an engineer myself, I can appreciate a good design, riddled with compromises.

I'm also kinda insane when it comes to finding the "perfect" budget models to recommend to friends and family (and those in this forum) who have no desire to drop 4 figures on good sound reproduction.
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post #72 of 1589 Old 03-06-2018, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by l0nestar8 View Post
The sub-$300 budget category might be the most competitive segment in the market. Incidentally, it's also my favorite segment because of the engineering challenges and the fact that there has been steady (if slow) progress over the decades. I'm happy with my >$1000 speakers, but I enjoy testing out the cheaper ones more. As an engineer myself, I can appreciate a good design, riddled with compromises.

I'm also kinda insane when it comes to finding the "perfect" budget models to recommend to friends and family (and those in this forum) who have no desire to drop 4 figures on good sound reproduction.
6.5" +/- at $300 +/-

$235 REAR 14X9X11 2 way 6.5" [48hz] PHILHARMONIC AUDIO AFFORDABLE ACCURACY MONITOR

$280 REAR 12X7X11 2 way 6.3" [42hz] CANTON GLE 426 Accessories4less pice

$299 REAR 14x9x12 2 way 6.5" [40hz] WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 10.2, Music Direct Price

$300 REAR 15X9X14 2 way 6.5" [39hz] POLK SIGNATURE 20, often 10% off Best Buy**

$319 FRONT 16X9X12 2 way 6.5" [47hz] HTD LEVEL THREE**

$320 REAR 14X8X11 2 way 7" [38hz] CANTON GLE 436 Accessories4less pice

$330 REAR 12X9X10 2 way 6.5" [58hz] ASCEND ACOUSTICS CBM 170 SE

$350 SEALED 11X7X8 2 way 6.5" [56hz] NHT SUPERONE 2.1
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post #73 of 1589 Old 03-06-2018, 12:56 PM
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Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2 review:

Clearer sound, better build quality, same incredible value


https://www.cnet.com/products/elac-d...0-b6-2/review/
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post #74 of 1589 Old 03-06-2018, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr_Hifi View Post
Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2 review:

Clearer sound, better build quality, same incredible value

https://www.cnet.com/products/elac-d...0-b6-2/review/

"The two speakers' differing character also held when we compared acoustic music. The B6.2s midrange sounded more present and immediate, while the B6's sound was a little more laid back. The high frequencies are brighter and better resolved on the B6.2, and it provides a more transparent window on the music."


This concerns me.
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post #75 of 1589 Old 03-06-2018, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
"The two speakers' differing character also held when we compared acoustic music. The B6.2s midrange sounded more present and immediate, while the B6's sound was a little more laid back. The high frequencies are brighter and better resolved on the B6.2, and it provides a more transparent window on the music."


This concerns me.

Me too, especially about the highs being brighter. They don't really attempt to qualify how much brighter, so I'll be interested in Andrew's response to my original question. I don't like bright speakers...they may catch your ear more in short term listening, but in long term listening they are fatiguing and don't sound balanced and 'right'. To me at least. I think they're are far too many speakers out there that are too bright.
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post #76 of 1589 Old 03-06-2018, 04:06 PM
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The new woofers aren't quite as pretty with the 'outie' plastic dustcap, but if the performance is better that's what really matters.
There are, as usual, mixed opinions on the dustcap. Some people like it, some don't, so on average we have it about right! I changed it because it allowed me to smooth out the top end response of the woofer.

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post #77 of 1589 Old 03-06-2018, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzy_ View Post

The specs are typical meaningless specs, though. No way that onwall goes to 70hz in any meaningful way.

.
The response accounting for wall loading is 4dB down at 70Hz. I designed it to be used as an onwall matched to a subwoofer. It's main purpose is as a surround speaker for home theater

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post #78 of 1589 Old 03-06-2018, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
Any possibility of a Uni-fi 2.0?
Any chance of you giving me some rest after having just launched Adante and the New Debut?....lol


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post #79 of 1589 Old 03-06-2018, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Spock1234 View Post
Chris,

If a manufacturer quotes “70Hz - 35kHz” as a spec, it only says that the speaker produces ‘sound’ at those frequencies. It does not tell me if the sound at 70Hz is twice as loud as the sound at 35kHz. That’s why we need a spec that also mentions the SPL variation within this frequency range, such as ‘+/- XdB from 70Hz - 35kHzw’.

I am very interested in the On-wall speakers and am eager to see some specs or reviews, so that I can make my purchase. I currently have Pradigm’s Signature S2s, but have to go with on-walls due to space constraints.
Generally the frequency range specification follows the IEC standard, which is the frequency at which the response drops to -10dB. However for bass response I typically quote the -6dB frequency.

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Any chance of you giving me some rest after having just launched Adante and the New Debut?....lol


Andrew

Nobody rests in this business .... or any business !!!
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post #81 of 1589 Old 03-06-2018, 07:46 PM
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Talking

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Originally Posted by Spock1234 View Post
Chris,

If a manufacturer quotes “70Hz - 35kHz” as a spec, it only says that the speaker produces ‘sound’ at those frequencies. It does not tell me if the sound at 70Hz is twice as loud as the sound at 35kHz. That’s why we need a spec that also mentions the SPL variation within this frequency range, such as ‘+/- XdB from 70Hz - 35kHzw’.

I am very interested in the On-wall speakers and am eager to see some specs or reviews, so that I can make my purchase. I currently have Pradigm’s Signature S2s, but have to go with on-walls due to space constraints.
Quote:
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Generally the frequency range specification follows the IEC standard, which is the frequency at which the response drops to -10dB. However for bass response I typically quote the -6dB frequency.

Andrew
OMG! I can't believe Andrew Jone responded to my post!

Andrew .... uh .... Mr. Jones,

I understand you designed the on-walls to be used as surrounds, but what are your thoughts about using them as LCRs? Five of these and your subwoofer would make a nice 5.1 system for the bedroom.

I figured they would perform better than bookshelf speakers mounted to the wall, because they are designed for on-wall use while the bookshelf models are not. Any advice would be appreciated.

And, any chance ELAC would provide a simple frequency response chart for these speakers? That would help a lot as most of us would have to buy these 'blind'.

And, once again, Andrew f**king Jones is in da house!!!
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post #82 of 1589 Old 03-06-2018, 09:59 PM
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The cnet review at one point says that the sound is a cross between the original Debut and the UniFi. They also say the new speaker is brighter, but that previous description does seem to put the B6.2 squarely within the house sound. And technically speaking, isn’t the UniFi a “better” speaker, so isn’t that a good thing? I know tuning preferences are largely subjective, but it’s hard to know from the review if the speaker has less bass in addition to having more treble (extension vs tuning)

I am really bummed as I JUST bought a pair of bookshelf speakers and would’ve much preferred getting ELACs that are forgiving of positioning instead. As long as these have decent bass response, I’m tempted to switch.

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post #83 of 1589 Old 03-06-2018, 10:00 PM
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Generally the frequency range specification follows the IEC standard, which is the frequency at which the response drops to -10dB. However for bass response I typically quote the -6dB frequency.

Andrew
My 2 Front ELAC B6 are good L/R/F surrounds here and real decent 2.0/2.1 music ,great speaker for the money

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post #84 of 1589 Old 03-06-2018, 10:29 PM
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My 2 Front ELAC B6 are good L/R/F surrounds here and real decent 2.0/2.1 music ,great speaker for the money

And mine are still on after 19 hours today. Not at all fatigued. Soft, laid back and soothing .... just the way I like.
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post #85 of 1589 Old 03-06-2018, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Pop Zeus View Post
The cnet review at one point says that the sound is a cross between the original Debut and the UniFi. They also say the new speaker is brighter, but that previous description does seem to put the B6.2 squarely within the house sound. And technically speaking, isn’t the UniFi a “better” speaker, so isn’t that a good thing? I know tuning preferences are largely subjective, but it’s hard to know from the review if the speaker has less bass in addition to having more treble (extension vs tuning)

I am really bummed as I JUST bought a pair of bookshelf speakers and would’ve much preferred getting ELACs that are forgiving of positioning instead. As long as these have decent bass response, I’m tempted to switch.
Yeah, brighter than the old Debut doesn't mean bright overall. I have the Uni-Fis and I wouldn't call them bright in the least. They have nice treble detail, but they're not at all fatiguing. I'd call them open, which is a good thing IMO, and if the new Debuts are more open than the old ones that should bode well for them.
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post #86 of 1589 Old 03-07-2018, 10:31 AM
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OMG! I can't believe Andrew Jone responded to my post!

Andrew .... uh .... Mr. Jones,

I understand you designed the on-walls to be used as surrounds, but what are your thoughts about using them as LCRs? Five of these and your subwoofer would make a nice 5.1 system for the bedroom.

I figured they would perform better than bookshelf speakers mounted to the wall, because they are designed for on-wall use while the bookshelf models are not. Any advice would be appreciated.

And, any chance ELAC would provide a simple frequency response chart for these speakers? That would help a lot as most of us would have to buy these 'blind'.

And, once again, Andrew f**king Jones is in da house!!!
Hi Spock,

In about a week (Around March 15th) many the new Debut 2.0 speakers will be available at Magnolia Home Theater stores in Best Buy. They should be setup for auditioning and for purchase.

I have been listening to the B6.2s for a couple of weeks and do not find them bright. Andrew will explain what he changed about the tweeter. I am very sensitive to overly bright content and am very happy with the new models.

Thanks,

Chris
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post #87 of 1589 Old 03-07-2018, 11:11 AM
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Hi Spock,

In about a week (Around March 15th) many the new Debut 2.0 speakers will be available at Magnolia Home Theater stores in Best Buy. They should be setup for auditioning and for purchase.

I have been listening to the B6.2s for a couple of weeks and do not find them bright. Andrew will explain what he changed about the tweeter. I am very sensitive to overly bright content and am very happy with the new models.

Thanks,

Chris
ELAC
Is Magnolia going to carry the Adantes? I've been wanting to check those out.

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post #88 of 1589 Old 03-07-2018, 11:28 AM
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OMG! I can't believe Andrew Jone responded to my post!

Andrew .... uh .... Mr. Jones,

I understand you designed the on-walls to be used as surrounds, but what are your thoughts about using them as LCRs? Five of these and your subwoofer would make a nice 5.1 system for the bedroom.

I figured they would perform better than bookshelf speakers mounted to the wall, because they are designed for on-wall use while the bookshelf models are not. Any advice would be appreciated.
Very cool.

On using the on-walls as LCRs:

- My experience with small speakers has been that they lack the ability to produce full, natural sounding voices and music, because they fall off too much in the mid-bass. They sound thin. It may depend on what you're using them for. I wouldn't use them if music is a significant part of your plans.

That said, a lot of people make that compromise due to space, cost, or other considerations. So it depends. These might be OK.

- People here at AVS make way too much out of placing speakers close to walls. They just read it somewhere, they don't really understand why it might or might not matter. There are many things with a greater impact to focus on. Like placement and reflections. I'd worry a lot more about being too near a side wall than a wall behind the speaker.
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post #89 of 1589 Old 03-07-2018, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spock1234 View Post
OMG! I can't believe Andrew Jone responded to my post! [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif[/IMG]

Andrew .... uh .... Mr. Jones,

I understand you designed the on-walls to be used as surrounds, but what are your thoughts about using them as LCRs? Five of these and your subwoofer would make a nice 5.1 system for the bedroom.

I figured they would perform better than bookshelf speakers mounted to the wall, because they are designed for on-wall use while the bookshelf models are not. Any advice would be appreciated.

And, any chance ELAC would provide a simple frequency response chart for these speakers? That would help a lot as most of us would have to buy these 'blind'.

And, once again, Andrew f**king Jones is in da house!!![IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
Hi Spock,

In about a week (Around March 15th) many the new Debut 2.0 speakers will be available at Magnolia Home Theater stores in Best Buy. They should be setup for auditioning and for purchase.

I have been listening to the B6.2s for a couple of weeks and do not find them bright. Andrew will explain what he changed about the tweeter. I am very sensitive to overly bright content and am very happy with the new models.

Thanks,

Chris
ELAC
So you're saying they should have them in-store? Here in Tulsa they've never stocked any before but they've been available as special order. We actually bought our Uni-Fi setup from them but none of them had heard them, so we set the towers up in a listening room and played music for an hour or so and various employees were checking them out (and rather impressed). It would be super helpful to actually be able to demo them in store though BEFORE purchase, so just to clarify, they should be available IN STORE to test, as opposed to just order? That would be outstanding.
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post #90 of 1589 Old 03-07-2018, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by MORT A POTTY View Post
So you're saying they should have them in-store? Here in Tulsa they've never stocked any before but they've been available as special order. We actually bought our Uni-Fi setup from them but none of them had heard them, so we set the towers up in a listening room and played music for an hour or so and various employees were checking them out (and rather impressed). It would be super helpful to actually be able to demo them in store though BEFORE purchase, so just to clarify, they should be available IN STORE to test, as opposed to just order? That would be outstanding.
Hi,

Yep, the 6.5" Debut 2.0 models will be in-store and on display in one of the Magnolia Home Theater demo rooms. We will issue a press release next week regarding this.

The only thing I am not 100% sure on is exactly what day they will be put on display (Around March 15th). We have already trained most of the staff on the new models and key trainers for Magnolia have all listened to them.

Thanks,

Chris
ELAC
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