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post #1 of 48 Old 03-12-2018, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
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A Wharfedale Trifecta

After a recent budget bookshelf shootout, I ended up becoming enamored with Wharfedale's more modest offerings. I was so impressed with the humble 10.1's, that curiosity got the best of me, as it often does. I just had to try some of their newer creations.

Enter the 220 and the Denton. More about the Denton later, but for now let's talk about the 220's. The 220's are actually two generations removed from the 10.1's. There was a short-lived intermediate model that was plagued with manufacturing issues and was thus quickly (and wisely) replaced with the 2XX series. It's design is a ground-up reworking of the Diamond line that began after the 10.X series Diamonds were "discontinued".

Side note: As fate would have it, a new-to-the-States 11.X series has just been made available to us Americans. Prices are not inline with what I consider the "budget" category quite yet, but they likely will be in the coming years. The new KEF Q series is currently in a similar situation.

The Wharfedale Diamond 220's (220's from now on) look nothing like the Wharfedale Diamond 10.1's (10.1's from here on out). The 220's feature a bottom-slotted port, a rectangular cabinet, and an unusual-looking tweeter waveguide. The tweeter is no longer protected behind a metal mesh screen. Soft domes and Kevlar woofers are still the order of the day and have become something of a Wharfedale signature trademark. A faux-wood vinyl adorns the outside panels.

The Wharfedale Denton 80th Anniversary "Limited" Edition (Dentons for the remainder of this review) speakers are all alone making up an entire line themselves. You will not find any matching centers, surrounds, or subs. These are for two channel listening, plain and simple. Wharfedale isn't the only "British" (Wharfedale and KEF are both technically Chinese-owned) loudspeaker company playing this game. KEF has recently brought a similar strategy to market with tremendous success: The venerable KEF LS50 (on my wishlist since it was released). Think of it this way: The Denton is to Wharfedale; as the LS50 is to KEF. Ok, don't worry, there won't be any more SAT analogies in this review!

Alright, enough with the preamble, already! Sorry! So, with all that background in mind, let's start this Wharfedale hat trick of a review...

Set-up, listening conditions, and gear partnering: Same as my most recent shoot-out thread.

WD 220 ($279)
-----------------


It's a rectangular box. It has a woodgrain vinyl wrap. The grill is really two grills. One small circular grill for the tweeter, and one larger grill for the woofer. The shiny metallic rings are visible with or without the grills in place. I think both the other WD's look better than the 220's. The 220's look like every budget speaker you've ever seen. This isn't necessarily a bad thing! The cabinet might be less lively than the curvier 10.1's, but not significantly so.

How do they sound? Do they improve upon the 10.1's? Yes and no.

Let's start at the bottom. The achilles heel of the 220's is the bass. They have the least amount of bass in the trio. And by least, I mean barely any. I have no idea if it's the slot port design, the distance from my wall, or just the way they are voiced, but the bass just does not satisfy my room. Almost every 5 inch woofer-based bookshelf I've tested has had more impactful bass. There is some serious audible roll-off in the lowest three octaves. I wouldn't be surprised if the roll-off began above 100Hz. These NEED a subwoofer. It's not really even an option. If you hate bass, then these are for you. These actually sound like they are sealed. If I didn't feel air coming out of the bottom, I'd believe it too. Quality is good. Quantity is lacking.

Mids? These 220's still have WD's notorious "Magic Mids". They aren't as syrupy sweet as the 10.1, but you gain a noticeable amount of clarity and neutrality. There is just the teensiest amount of warmth present here that really make these pleasant to listen to. If the 10.1's are like adding half-and-half to your coffee, then the 220's are like adding whole milk, instead. I wouldn't want my mids to be any thicker than the 10.1's, just as I wouldn't want to use heavy whipping cream in my brews. (No more coffee analogies in this review). My Dynaudio's sound very similar, in fact, as far as mids go. I can't say anything bad about the 220 mids. They are simply sublime.

How are the highs, you ask? The highs are my favorite part of this bookshelf. They extend wonderfully and sound nice and delicate without any harshness. If KEF could get the Q series to match this level of tweeter output, I would be all over them. The mids and highs sound perfectly balanced to me. They provide the extension that is sorely lacking in the 10.1's. The woofer-tweeter transition is likewise seamless.

The soundstage and imaging is very similar to the 10.1's. The 10.1's have a small advantage in depth and three-dimensionality while the 220's have an edge in precise imaging and instrument separation. The 220's are more forward than the 10's which are themselves ever so slightly laid-back.

To sum up the 220's: They have a smooth, almost dead neutral presentation that improves on the 10.1's in a couple ways. The 220's offer more mid neutrality and greater tweeter extension than the 10.1's. Mids will be a matter of taste but the high-end extension is obviously superior to the 10.1's. However, and it's a big HOWEVER, the bass cannot compete with either of the other speakers compared here. These require a sub, and a sub is not allowed in this room (I've asked many times, if you're wondering). No sub, no 220.

PROS: Neutral mids don't add any coloration. Good tweeter extension. Very good clarity and detail without any harshness or edginess. Bass is not overhyped. Imaging is excellent. Better for movies and dialogue intelligibility (with a sub) than rocking out. Very clean overall presentation.

CONS: Appearance is ho-hum. Bass thump, kick, impact, and rumble have gone fishing. A sub is basically mandatory. Those looking for "warmth" might be disappointed unless they are coming from "bright" and will instead be delighted.


WD Denton ($399)
---------------------


They only thing vintage about these bad boys is the real-wood veneer and inset front baffle. These look AMAZING! If you hate the vintage look, these aren't for you. If you are a self-described "old soul" and want a speaker to match your inner 20th century, the Dentons have your market cornered.

These things are TANKS. I mean it. They are HEAVY. Only my Dynaudio's have an equally inert cabinet. These have not a single resonance that I can detect from played material. Rapping them with my knuckles results in a soft "thud". I brick you not, these are solid. It was a struggle carrying these all over the house while in the "double-box". My Hsu sub was laughing at me, but the Dentons reminded them that they are "music-makers" and not filthy "wall-shakers". Anyway, these are beastly for 5 inchers. Grills insert into stand-offs like the (original) Elac Debuts.

The tweeter is a soft-dome tweeter. No waveguide. Fair enough. The woofer is a Kevlar woofer with an inverted dustcap. Fair enough. No shiny metal. No metal mesh tweeter protector. Fair enough. Volume-wise, these are the biggest 5 inch bookshelf cabinets I've tested. Easily the biggest and heaviest of the bunch.

Twin rear ports round out the obvious technology and look similar to the 10.1's, in this regard. Did I mention these have a gorgeous real-wood veneer? That wasn't a typo, by the way. $400 speakers with this level craftmanship? These surely don't come packaged with white gloves so that you don't get your greasy hands on the finish, do they? SPOILER: They do. White gloves are in the box, baby. So, what's the catch? There's a catch, right? Well, let's find out...

Again, I'll start at the bottom. The specs say these have a -6 db point at 44Hz. The 4.92 inch woofer can't go that low can it? It can. It does. These honestly go that deep. These have more deep bass than any other 5 inch bookshelf I've tested outside of Elac. However, the quality bass present here is on a whole other level. There is no boominess that is sometimes exhibited on the 10.1s. There's more rumble, thump, and texture than even the Hsu HB-1's. I think it's safe to say that the Dentons have the best bass I've heard at this price point. Deep, powerful, textured, and detailed. Perfect. This room loves the bass from the Dentons. Only the 10.1 comes close to sheer enjoyability and only the B5's compete in depth. Overall though, neither best the Dentons in the bass department. The B5's lack detail and texture as do the 10.1's in comparison. The 220's were too afraid to even sign up for the competition. There is actual impact and slam which is amazing for a 5 inch driver.

There is also nothing vintage about the mids. They are dead neutral. If you are expecting these to sound dark or "vintage" fear not. They are clearer and cleaner in the mids than even the Q100's and my old CBM-170's. Are they warm? Not really. Are they dry and sterile? Nope. These sound natural and smooth. I love the Denton mids.

The tweeter is clearly not a budget tweeter. It's detailed and unforgiving. It won't hide any faults or harshness. In my lively room, they have a tendency to "splash" some of the highs around the room. However, when I get closer to the tweeter, that all goes away. There is an upper-mid push that really enhances detail and intelligibility. Is it pushed too far? For most rooms, definitely not. For my room, sometimes it can be too much. It's a very smooth, very coherent splashiness though. I can actually hear some of the echoes and reverb during singing that would normally sound "blurry" in less capable speakers. Bad recordings sound bad, good recordings sound great. Movies are clear as day and never sound muddy. Sibilance does bite on occasion, but I can tell it's mostly my room to blame. With some brighter speakers, my room can make them unusable and the Dentons are just shy of this phenomenon.

Imaging is immaculate. I literally can't tell that the speakers are sitting there somehow emanating sound. The sound just "is". It doesn't sound like it's originating from anywhere in particular. Soundstage is nice and big. I'd say it's overall a little bit forward but mostly neutral. Plenty of air and openness in the soundstage. Lot's of detail and texture across the spectrum in a smooth and non-fatiguing way. Dynamics are just as good as the CBM-170's, except in the bass, where the Dentons have dynamic bass that the Ascends don't. Plenty of upper mid attack and "thwack" as well. These speakers truly "disappear" in the soundstage while still maintaining very accurate imaging.

This isn't a budget speaker, and there are no budget components being used. You are gonna hear the recording for better or worse. These aren't vintage, they are high-fidelity. The tweeter has more detail, delicacy, and extension than any of these other "budget" bookshelves. A bright room will make them sound bright. In my room, they can be a little too forward, but not due to any unevenness or irregularities. These are the first budget speakers that have made me want to fix my room instead of switching speakers, so take that how you will.

Bottom line, the Dentons are not in the same league as anything else I've tested in this price range. My Dali Z1's were the same price ($400) and were toys compared to the Dentons. The Dentons originally retailed for $1000 and it shows. The build, sound, and presentation are NOT those of a $400 per pair speaker. Double that price at least to find a worthy competitor.

PROS: Cabinet. Bass. Mids. Highs. Soundstage. Imaging. Dynamics.

CONS: Must like the vintage aesthetic. Upper mids can be aggressive and "bite" on occasion.


Summary
----------


I still think the 10.1/10.2 is one of the best deals and bang-for-the-buck in audio. For warmth, clarity, a 3D soundstage, and with a healthy amount of mid bass, I still recommend them highly. The 220 will offer more neutrality in the mids. They also have more detail and extension up top. They don't have the same satisfying bass or lushness in the mids as the 10.1's, though. The 10.1's are also cheaper.

The Dentons have bass and mids that are simply superior. The same goes for the cabinet and craftsmanship. The tweeter is hyper detailed which could be too much of good thing for some. I don't think they are bright at all but they can be a little forward and in the wrong, more reflective rooms, they might overwhelm. However, there is no doubt that the Dentons are an absolute steal at $400 and they have no business being available at that price brand new. I wish these were being talked about as much as the LS50's.

I will be keeping the Dentons and the 10.1's. They both represent such good bargains, that I can't see myself letting either of them go.

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post #2 of 48 Old 03-12-2018, 10:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Still coveting: KEF Q150/Q350, KEF LS50, RBH R-5/R-5E, Elac B5.2/B6.2
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post #3 of 48 Old 03-13-2018, 04:37 AM
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Wow Lone! Good job. I can see that you really put some time into this write-up. Many will find it very helpful. However, I have a few comments that I would like to add:

I also owned both the 220's and the Dentons. Of the two in my small room, the 220's had noticeably more low end extension. In fact, the closer to the front wall I placed them, then the more bass output I had. Moving them away from the front wall gave me less bass. Thus, I pulled the 220's away from the front wall far enough to give me the low end that I needed for my musical tastes. Keep in mind, that my music tastes is rather eclectic to say the least.

Most all of my listening to either the 220's and/or the Dentons was done in the near-field albeit my desktop setup. I was using a Cambridge SR 20 stereo receiver. That being said, I found the 220's to be somewhat warm in the mids with a buttery smooth top end. However, I found the Dentons to be much warmer in the mids with a bit more refinement over all when compared to the 220's. Thus, the 220's I describe as being on the "warm side of neutral" whereas the the Dentons were noticeably warmer in the mids w/lots of detail in the top end. Both speakers were very laid-back and smooth in my room. Likewise, both were also very non-fatiguing. That is, I could listen to them both for hours at a time and never want to stop.


Lone our findings are somewhat different. That is not surprising given that we have (2) different rooms AND powering sources, and etc. Never really used the 220's and /or the Dentons for HT purposes b/c I am NOT a HT guy. To me it is all about music. I could care less about HT. The 220's gave me plenty of low end for my needs. The Dentons not so much, but the bass that was there was much more linear/controlled. Just needed more of it. The 220's being slightly warm toward neutrality would easily lend itself to work well for HT applications, as well as, for some music lovers like myself. In short, I think that the Dentons were intended mainly for 2 CH use with or w/o a capable sub. For me, if using the Dentons I would certainly have to have a sub. Conversely, for the 220's no sub would be required in my room. Thanks for your write-up/comparison.


Cheers,

Phil

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post #4 of 48 Old 03-13-2018, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I was surprised as well @audiofreak38 . I think the Dentons must be exciting a room mode that the 220 doesn't. I don't listen near-field either. Your assessment of the midranges, I would agree with. I think you could say that the Dentons are clearer up top, certainly, which comes across as less warm to me compared to the 220's. I do think that both are pretty neutral and not really warm like a 10 series or Elac. Better comparisons for the mids would be Ascend, Hsu, KEF, etc. for me.

I did also notice tonality changes when I moved nearfield with the Dentons. I only briefly mentioned it since I don't listen nearfield. So I'm not surprised that your evaluation was somewhat different that mine. All in all, however, I would still say that the 220 is the warmer speaker in my room and the Denton more forward. The very low mids might indeed be warmer with the Denton compared to the 220's, however, but I attribute that to the Dentons having more bass overall. Both are relatively neutral compared to the 10.1's.

Bass-wise, all I can say is that the Dentons needed no sub and the 220 definitely do. It might be my room, but I hear and FEEL deep bass from the Dentons that I don't from the others. That -6 dB at 44Hz spec sounds spot on and none of the other bookshelves dropped below 50ish Hz. There is no doubt the Dentons can put out low bass in my room.

This just goes to show how different listening conditions can affect sound.

For kicks, I just measured, and I have my Denton's rear ports about 13.5 inches from the wall. I sit about 12 ft from the tweeter. I couldn't get any decent bass from the 220s in those conditions.
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post #5 of 48 Old 03-13-2018, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Purple trace shows the severe bass rolloff I'm talking about. It starts to drop ~150 Hz. Same thing shown here:



However, the 225's actually extend pretty well but still start dropping above 100Hz:

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Interesting, one more thing I noticed looking at the NRC graphs. Look at the impendance trace:



That's a very high port tuning and almost a sealed configuration in shape. Here's a more traditional tuning for reference (well-respected Revel m106):



Speakers: M040 | X18 | UB5
Sub: VTF-2 mk5
Amps: HK 3490 | TSR-7810
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post #7 of 48 Old 03-13-2018, 08:43 AM
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thanks for the review... the denton's have been on my radar for a long time, now i just *might * see for myself...sounds to me like other than sheer extension the denton's have a better "more balanced" upper mid / treble presentation than the q100's.. that makes me feel good about what the sound may be ... sounds also like the 220's are a great option for those looking to tame a bright room/ bright speaker combo.... thanks again , for us poor 'ol wharfedale fans/owners.. this was the detailed review of the current budget lineup that we wanted.. you have done a great service for avs and the budget minded hobbyist...

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
thanks for the review... the denton's have been on my radar for a long time, now i just *might * see for myself...sounds to me like other than sheer extension the denton's have a better "more balanced" upper mid / treble presentation than the q100's.. that makes me feel good about what the sound may be ... sounds also like the 220's are a great option for those looking to tame a bright room/ bright speaker combo.... thanks again , for us poor 'ol wharfedale fans/owners.. this was the detailed review of the current budget lineup that we wanted.. you have done a great service for avs and the budget minded hobbyist...
I'd put the Denton's right between the Q100's and the 220's on your scale. Probably closer to the 220's. The 10.1's being the most tame (but still clear, somehow). The bass goes surprisingly deep on the Q100's and in that regard, the Dentons are closer to the KEFs only with the Dentons having more midbass and feeling "larger" and more "room-filling".
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post #9 of 48 Old 03-13-2018, 09:16 AM
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I'd put the Denton's right between the Q100's and the 220's on your scale. Probably closer to the 220's. The 10.1's being the most tame (but still clear, somehow). The bass goes surprisingly deep on the Q100's and in that regard, the Dentons are closer to the KEFs only with the Dentons having more midbass and feeling "larger" and more "room-filling".
sounds to me like the 220's or denton's could work for almost anybody.. funny... q acoustic 3020s get lots of love on here.. nothing wrong with that... but maybe lots of people are missing a great experience not getting the 220 as a safe budget pick for dual use....at the price and knowing that wharfedale's tweeter is smooth , real smooth...how could a guy go wrong...?

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l0nestar8 View Post
I'd put the Denton's right between the Q100's and the 220's on your scale. Probably closer to the 220's. The 10.1's being the most tame (but still clear, somehow). The bass goes surprisingly deep on the Q100's and in that regard, the Dentons are closer to the KEFs only with the Dentons having more midbass and feeling "larger" and more "room-filling".
Lone, it looks like our findings are merely opposites to each other......LOL!!!! That does not mean I am right and you are wrong or vice versa. I listened in the near-field only and you were more in the far-field. Plus, I have never heard the 10.1's to compare to. Also, keep in mind that the 220's MUST be placed closer to the front wall to get any kind of bass out of them. Mine were at least 12-14" from the front wall. Anything closer resulted in way too much bass that was clearly undefined and/or boomy.

The Dentons were much more fussy about placement in my room. However, no matter where I placed them the low end was just not there. The Dentons also were noticeably warmer in the mids when listening to the likes of say Steve Windood/Eric Clapton. Vocals really excelled-especially female vocals. But, the 220's did not disappoint in that regard. Thus, the 220's were a bit warm but much more toward neutrality inmho. The degree of resolution and detail was simply better over all on the Dentons. Now I am very curious as to how the new "11 Series" will compare to both the 220's/Dentons. Especially, the 11.1's.


Cheers,

Phil
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sounds to me like the 220's or denton's could work for almost anybody.. funny... q acoustic 3020s get lots of love on here.. nothing wrong with that... but maybe lots of people are missing a great experience not getting the 220 as a safe budget pick for dual use....at the price and knowing that wharfedale's tweeter is smooth , real smooth...how could a guy go wrong...?
I completely agree. It's a chocolate vs. vanilla thing. Both are great at what they do. They are more similar than different. I only highlight the differences because I was A/Bing them. They just have different strengths and weaknesses. Aesthetics alone could sway many people. Also remember, the use of a sub and room size can change the whole equation.

I've never heard any QA speakers but I've been interested in the C20's. I just wish they were cheaper...
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Lone, it looks like our findings are merely opposites to each other......LOL!!!! That does not mean I am right and you are wrong or vice versa. I listened in the near-field only and you were more in the far-field. Plus, I have never heard the 10.1's to compare to. Also, keep in mind that the 220's MUST be placed closer to the front wall to get any kind of bass out of them. Mine were at least 12-14" from the front wall. Anything closer resulted in way too much bass that was clearly undefined and/or boomy.

The Dentons were much more fussy about placement in my room. However, no matter where I placed them the low end was just not there. The Dentons also were noticeably warmer in the mids when listening to the likes of say Steve Windood/Eric Clapton. Vocals really excelled-especially female vocals. But, the 220's did not disappoint in that regard. Thus, the 220's were a bit warm but much more toward neutrality inmho. The degree of resolution and detail was simply better over all on the Dentons. Now I am very curious as to how the new "11 Series" will compare to both the 220's/Dentons. Especially, the 11.1's.


Cheers,

Phil
I think we are in violent agreement. I totally agree with all you say here, aside from the bass, which might simply be an anomaly.
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I completely agree. It's a chocolate vs. vanilla thing. Both are great at what they do. They are more similar than different. I only highlight the differences because I was A/Bing them. They just have different strengths and weaknesses. Aesthetics alone could sway many people. Also remember, the use of a sub and room size can change the whole equation.

I've never heard any QA speakers but I've been interested in the C20's. I just wish they were cheaper...
Aesthetics were THE reason I shied away from the 220s. Could not have looked at those rings constantly.

Noticed that MusicDirect has the 11, 11.1, and 11.2 available. Are you planning on performing another review of at least the 11.1 and 11.2?

Oh, and I loved your analogy about the half and half vs. whole milk.
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post #14 of 48 Old 03-13-2018, 10:28 AM
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Argh, if only the Dentons came in black! Though you make a good point, I might find its tweeter too revealing esp. of the Pandora streaming music I often listen to. But probably not so noticeable at moderate background listening levels, I imagine?

It sounds like the 220s are almost as neutral as the CBM-170s but with a little more mid-bass, and a safe choice for HT users?
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Argh, if only the Dentons came in black! Though you make a good point, I might find its tweeter too revealing esp. of the Pandora streaming music I often listen to. But probably not so noticeable at moderate background listening levels, I imagine?

It sounds like the 220s are almost as neutral as the CBM-170s but with a little more mid-bass, and a safe choice for HT users?
Zorba, between the 220's and/or the Dentons it is safe to say that the 220's were better "all arounders" inmho. That is, due to some warmth in the mids and a buttery smooth top end adds appeal for music lovers like me. By the same token the 220's would also excel at HT due to its somewhat neutral nature. Lets face it, Peter Comeau has done at excellent job voicing/tuning the Wharfies. Kudos to him! I am a fan for life! Just saying...............



Cheers,

Phil
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post #16 of 48 Old 03-13-2018, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BobDylanThomasIV View Post
Aesthetics were THE reason I shied away from the 220s. Could not have looked at those rings constantly.

Noticed that MusicDirect has the 11, 11.1, and 11.2 available. Are you planning on performing another review of at least the 11.1 and 11.2?

Oh, and I loved your analogy about the half and half vs. whole milk.
There is another poster in another thread that will have an 11.2 soon. He has/had a 225 for comparison. So, I think you will get a review soon enough. For now, they are priced a little too high for me.

Here's the thread: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...-shootout.html
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post #17 of 48 Old 03-13-2018, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Argh, if only the Dentons came in black! Though you make a good point, I might find its tweeter too revealing esp. of the Pandora streaming music I often listen to. But probably not so noticeable at moderate background listening levels, I imagine?

It sounds like the 220s are almost as neutral as the CBM-170s but with a little more mid-bass, and a safe choice for HT users?
I think whether you find the tweeter too revealing will likely depend on your room, TBH. At low volumes, they sound really nice since they are so clear.

Your comparison to the CBM-170 is spot on. The CBM-170's would dig a little deeper but without the midbass of 220. Actually, now that you mention it, the 220 and Ascend bass is almost identical. They both rolloff a little early, IMO. The 220 are more neutral to my ears as well. Top end extension sounds about the same. I think overall the 220's are smoother and more pleasant.

The CBM-170's and the 220's are both perfect for HT users. The 170's if you have a large room to fill since those things are so dang sensitive and dynamic. The 220's for a little more tonal balance and neutrality. The 220's are absolutely a safe choice for HT. They are begging for a sub!
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post #18 of 48 Old 03-13-2018, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Zorba, between the 220's and/or the Dentons it is safe to say that the 220's were better "all arounders" inmho. That is, due to some warmth in the mids and a buttery smooth top end adds appeal for music lovers like me. By the same token the 220's would also excel at HT due to its somewhat neutral nature. Lets face it, Peter Comeau has done at excellent job voicing/tuning the Whatfies. Kudos to him! I am a fan for life! Just saying...............



Cheers,

Phil
Pretty much this^^. The Denton is a much better speaker, for sure, but it also shows no mercy. The Dentons are really competing with higher end sets, not the 220's and the like. The comment here about the 220's being "all arounders" is a very good one.
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post #19 of 48 Old 03-13-2018, 11:03 AM
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I completely agree. It's a chocolate vs. vanilla thing. Both are great at what they do. They are more similar than different. I only highlight the differences because I was A/Bing them. They just have different strengths and weaknesses. Aesthetics alone could sway many people. Also remember, the use of a sub and room size can change the whole equation.

I've never heard any QA speakers but I've been interested in the C20's. I just wish they were cheaper...
that concept 20 is something i would like to hear also.. but , at the current price , and with all the talent at now lower $$ , they need to think about CUTTING price some to get the pigs to the trough..... i would bet that most people searching for neutral-(ish) smooth will find that the 220's , the q100's and denton's are all better deals... not to mention (but i will) canton 426/436...the 3020 may be a good speaker, but i have the 2020i, the 3020 would need to be a LOT better than the 2020i to be a better deal than the q100s or 10.1s...

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
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that concept 20 is something i would like to hear also.. but , at the current price , and with all the talent at now lower $$ , they need to think about CUTTING price some to get the pigs to the trough..... i would bet that most people searching for neutral-(ish) smooth will find that the 220's , the q100's and denton's are all better deals... not to mention (but i will) canton 426/436...the 3020 may be a good speaker, but i have the 2020i, the 3020 would need to be a LOT better than the 2020i to be a better deal than the q100s or 10.1s...
You are reading my own thoughts, my friend. I read through @Zorba922 's review of the 10.1/C20/3020 and that's what swayed me towards WD.
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post #21 of 48 Old 03-13-2018, 11:14 AM
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You are reading my own thoughts, my friend. I read through @Zorba922 's review of the 10.1/C20/3020 and that's what swayed me towards WD.
i read Zorba's review also.. that's one of the reasons i went 10.1 also... it was a great read..

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
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i read Zorba's review also.. that's one of the reasons i went 10.1 also... it was a great read..
Yep. I like that he puts more focus on the actual music than I do. It's a good thing to come at this in different ways. I listen to generalities and he like the specifics within a certain cut. Both are valuable to me.

If I were to do it that way, I'd have to sit there with pen and paper, taking notes. I'd also have to swap much more often between cuts. I'm too lazy for that. What @Zorba922 does is much harder and time intensive.
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post #23 of 48 Old 03-13-2018, 11:24 AM
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Yep. I like that he puts more focus on the actual music than I do. It's a good thing to come at this in different ways. I like to listen for generalities and he likes the specifics within a certain cut. Both are valuable to me.
ya , i am more analytical so i understand your reviews more easily .. but Zorba applied the results in those analytics and gave me a music equivalency .. and that really helped me learn more about how speakers have a give and take...

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
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Wow! Reva 2's brand new w/free shipping ONLY $549.95! That is a deal for sure! However, they look more like the new 11.1's you agree?


https://www.audiogon.com/listings/li...off-f-monitors


Either way, certainly something to consider. Just wished my funds were not so tight right now. I would be all over this! Just saying.............



Cheers,

Phil
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apparently there is a "denton 2" that has been recently released an 85th anniversary edition.. it was (is) news to me.. i just read it in a different forum thread...

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #26 of 48 Old 03-13-2018, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Argh, if only the Dentons came in black! Though you make a good point, I might find its tweeter too revealing esp. of the Pandora streaming music I often listen to. But probably not so noticeable at moderate background listening levels, I imagine?

It sounds like the 220s are almost as neutral as the CBM-170s but with a little more mid-bass, and a safe choice for HT users?
in doing some heavy before purchase recon, it seems many audiophile types see the top end rolling off after a long break in period... not sure how much of that is ear break in but i have the feeling that these guys are describing a 10.1 with a little better top end and much better midrange...

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #27 of 48 Old 03-13-2018, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by audiofreak38 View Post
Wow! Reva 2's brand new w/free shipping ONLY $549.95! That is a deal for sure! However, they look more like the new 11.1's you agree?


https://www.audiogon.com/listings/li...off-f-monitors


Either way, certainly something to consider. Just wished my funds were not so tight right now. I would be all over this! Just saying.............



Cheers,

Phil
No doubt they look very pretty!!
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post #28 of 48 Old 03-13-2018, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
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apparently there is a "denton 2" that has been recently released an 85th anniversary edition.. it was (is) news to me.. i just read it in a different forum thread...
I'm 99% sure those are Chinese knockoffs.
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post #29 of 48 Old 03-13-2018, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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not sure how much of that is ear break in but i have the feeling that these guys are describing a 10.1 with a little better top end and much better midrange...
More neutral for sure. Better would be more subjective.
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post #30 of 48 Old 03-13-2018, 08:06 PM
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I'm 99% sure those are Chinese knockoffs.
they might well be.. there was speculation of that when the pics were 1st posted.. but someone came back later saying that they were real(maybe tongue in cheek... i was at the end of reading an 11 pg thread in 1/2 an hour)..

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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