Passive LCR Soundbar + 2 In Ceiling Surround + Subwoofer - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 23 Old 04-21-2018, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Question Passive LCR Soundbar + 2 In Ceiling Surround + Subwoofer

Hi,

Was wondering if I could get recommendations for a setup consisted of:
- A Passive Soundbar - Was thinking of Phase Tech Teatro TSB 3.0 any other recommendation for something better in this price range?
- 1x Pair of in Ceil Speakers - Would need something to match the sound signature of the soundbar I would pick,
with a constraint of being 3.15-3.35 inch depth (to fit a floating ceiling of 3.9 inch depth) was thinking of taking this 0.7 inch so it would fit easily
- 1x Subwoofer - SVS SB2000?

The whole would be connected to a Denon X2400h or X2500h and Usage would be both music and movies/series , about 50/50.

Appreciate any help, especially with the in-ceil speakers I really should be ordering already

Best,

Simon
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post #2 of 23 Old 04-21-2018, 03:04 PM
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Do you absolutely have to go the soundbar route? A soundbar will sound worse than most bookshelves... and I'm talking about cheap bookshelves.

If you have to go with a soundbar, with tiny 3" drivers, I personally see no reason to spend like $700+ on it. I'd say go for something like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Canton-CD-9...-/131976176191

$100 ... used to retail for $650.

https://www.cnet.com/products/canton-cd-90-sb/review/

Also comes in white on ebay, if you prefer that color.


But I'd strongly suggest trying to fit in regular speakers instead if you can, especially if you want them for music.
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post #3 of 23 Old 04-21-2018, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doe Doe View Post
Do you absolutely have to go the soundbar route? A soundbar will sound worse than most bookshelves... and I'm talking about cheap bookshelves.
But I'd strongly suggest trying to fit in regular speakers instead if you can, especially if you want them for music.
Thank you,
Unfortunately yes , since the TV will be standing on a stainless steel floor stand in a kind of middle of the room setup, and behind of it there's a huge window opening up to the balcony ,I don't have too much choice. Will it sound that bad? Even with a subwoofer?

About the price, from what I've check, price would not be 700$+ but rather a few hundreds dollar less, can't specify exactly how much.
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post #4 of 23 Old 04-21-2018, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by sim_c View Post
Thank you,
Unfortunately yes , since the TV will be standing on a stainless steel floor stand in a kind of middle of the room setup, and behind of it there's a huge window opening up to the balcony ,I don't have too much choice. Will it sound that bad? Even with a subwoofer?

About the price, from what I've check, price would not be 700$+ but rather a few hundreds dollar less, can't specify exactly how much.
It'll sound better than the TV's speakers. As a reference, I have that CD 90 I mentioned (got it in a super cheap used CL deal) ... a pair of $100 sony cores easily beats it. So $650 (once upon a time) soundbar loses to $100 bookshelves and it's not really close.

Maybe look for passive soundbars with at least 4" drivers?

Or could you do something like:

3 RSL CG23s, horizontally?
https://rslspeakers.com/products/cg2...enter-channel/

Sort of like a fat soundbar.
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post #5 of 23 Old 04-21-2018, 03:45 PM
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A quality soundbar will sound good and seems like the right choice for your application.

The biggest issue may be the layout and materials of the room - if you have a lot of hard surfaces there will be a lot of reflections, and it may be a challenge to get good sound quality.

Another option would be the PSB Imagine W3.

It's not critical that surrounds be a perfect match for home theater, though if you're planning on playing music it's preferable. You might consider whether on-walls work. Those dimensions are somewhat challenging.

A previous thread on passive soundbars, with a long list of options:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/195-so...sound-bar.html

He went with a Goldenear:
https://www.goldenear.com/products/supercinema3d

The Invisa in-ceiling speakers might fit, 3.5" deep:
https://www.goldenear.com/products/invisa-series

Some other threads. There are some negative, uninformed comments here, ignore them. Obviously soundbars have limitations (lacking lower end frequencies, little separation of left and right) but there are plenty of happy customers.
https://www.google.com/search?q=best...3Aavsforum.com
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post #6 of 23 Old 04-21-2018, 04:27 PM
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Do you have a pic of the space and your stand? Also what is your budget. I agree that sound bar wont sound as good as bookshelf and a center but you can get close from a couple of todays soundbars. I would recomend the goldenear supercinema also like other post said..but the xl larger version if possible .it is a great compromise and is good for movies and music as long as pair woth good sub since has be crossed over like 100 or 120. If dont want passive you could look at martin logan cadence and can add 2 dts playfi wireless surround speakers . I had that setup before along with dynamo 700 and it was really good for smaller room also has anthem room correction. Theres a couple good reviews online of both soundbars .ive had both still have the m.l. cadence
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post #7 of 23 Old 04-21-2018, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sim_c View Post
Hi,



Was wondering if I could get recommendations for a setup consisted of:

- A Passive Soundbar - Was thinking of Phase Tech Teatro TSB 3.0 any other recommendation for something better in this price range?

- 1x Pair of in Ceil Speakers - Would need something to match the sound signature of the soundbar I would pick,

with a constraint of being 3.15-3.35 inch depth (to fit a floating ceiling of 3.9 inch depth) was thinking of taking this 0.7 inch so it would fit easily

- 1x Subwoofer - SVS SB2000?



The whole would be connected to a Denon X2400h or X2500h and Usage would be both music and movies/series , about 50/50.



Appreciate any help, especially with the in-ceil speakers I really should be ordering already



Best,



Simon


Not sure what your budget is. This would be my recommendation for a small to medium sized room:

Passive LCR:
https://www.paradigm.com/products-cu.../page=overview

In Ceiling:
https://www.paradigm.com/products-cu.../page=overview


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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post #8 of 23 Old 04-22-2018, 07:05 AM
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The Paradigm is a good choice but so isn't the Phase Tech Teatro PC 3.0. Both require you going up a little in price. I work for a company that carries Paradigm and I really favor a lot of the Paradigm products but in this instance I think the PC 3.0 is a better sound bar. it's larger 5" woofer and vertically arranged midrange tweeter give better dispersion as well as tweeters on the side to help give a wider sound stage. it is a very well designed sound bar. The Paradigm is no slouch either and I have used it in a number of installations.
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post #9 of 23 Old 04-22-2018, 10:05 AM
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check out artison. this might help
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Main: Sony XBR75900E, Denon AVR-x4400, Denon POA-5200 (L/R(a) Goldenear supersat 60, (b)FW Boston acoustic Bravo 2. C Goldenear supersat 60C,
SSR DIYSG Volt 6v2. RSS Volt 6, Atmos(.4) Boston acoustics soundware XS
HSU research ULS -15, Episode ES-IW-Dual 8 / Monitor audio IWA 250 amp 2nd Rm: Visio E55, Denon avr730H, Boston Acoustics CR8, cr400 sub.
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Originally Posted by smithsabom View Post
check out artison. this might help


That is a cool system. I never heard of this before.


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post #11 of 23 Old 04-22-2018, 12:39 PM
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If you absolutely must do a one-piece LCR, then the best option would be DoeDoe's suggestion of 3 x RSL CG23 side by side horizontally, $600 shipped with free return shipping. This is especially good if you ever move and are able to go back ot having 3 separate speakers up front.

The second option I'd try is this very reasonably priced HTD LCR soundbar, also with free return shipping:
https://www.htd.com/Versa-SB3

Another option is just to use a massive high quality center speaker up front:
https://emotiva.com/collections/loud...ts/airmotiv-c2

I have the smaller C1 and it's the best center I've ever heard...the AMT tweeter produces effortless voice clarity even at lower/moderate volumes. If I'd had the space I would've gone with the larger C2.

Both HTD and RSL make in-ceiling/wall speakers that you can use for surrounds.

For the sub I would avoid the sealed SB2000 and go with its ported version, the PB2000. I'd do the SB2000 only if it's a small enclosed room. If you have an open floor plan with adjacent open spaces, you want as much output as possible for HT usage. Hide it in a corner, disguised as an end table or plant stand, for WAF viability.

Or better yet, the Hsu VTF-3 currently on sale, which offers better performance than the PB2000 for about $50 more:
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3mk5HP.html

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #12 of 23 Old 05-22-2018, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Question

Thanks everyone for the advices, after reviewing them all and thinking about this more thoroughly, really need to have an order by the end of the week

Space is not setup yet, but I've attached the plan of the space (It will be one mail space including the kitchen) ,
I've circled where stand will be and squared the in-ceil and the subwoofer.

Size of the entire room would be about: 20ft x 20ft x 8.53h
Size of the living room square: 13ft x 10ft x 8.53h
I've also attached a picture of the chrome stand.

Following the advices I understand a lot of people recommend on the GoldenEar Supercinema is a little out of budget it is sold for more than 1k$
Paradigm is also over 1K, and same for the Phase PC 3.0 (found it for 800$ but can't trust this online website newaudiovideo)
As for airmotiv c1 I think it's depth is a little too much being 8inch deep.

I've noticed there's a recent soundbar from Klipsch, the RP-440B SB, but again only with 4 woofers of 3.5inch size.
It's quite competitive and on the same price range as that Versa SB3 suggested by Zorba, 400$ (Instead of 700$ MSRP) for the Klipsch on amazon vs 330$ for the HTD SB3

Let me know what do you think

Appreciate your assistance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sim_c View Post
Thanks everyone for the advices, after reviewing them all and thinking about this more thoroughly, really need to have an order by the end of the week

Space is not setup yet, but I've attached the plan of the space (It will be one mail space including the kitchen) ,
I've circled where stand will be and squared the in-ceil and the subwoofer.

Size of the entire room would be about: 20ft x 20ft x 8.53h
Size of the living room square: 13ft x 10ft x 8.53h
Meh, get the Versa so that you can put the savings into this monstrous subwoofer, currently on sale, which all that open space will sorely need:
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15hmk2.html

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #14 of 23 Old 05-26-2018, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Really thinking of trying the Klipsch one, for 400$ no-one think it would have any value, biggest advantage is , that he is being sold in amazon.com
But really impossible to find review about it yet
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post #15 of 23 Old 05-26-2018, 09:38 AM
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Not sure this is suitable but the Q-Acoustics M4 is a remarkably good sounding sound bar in your budget price.

Epson EH-TW9400 - QualGear Fixed Frame 100” - Sony x700 BRP & Panasonic 420 BRP - Sony 1080 AVR - IPL Acoustics M1TLs & IPL Acoustics AVC Pro Centre, Four KEF surrounds & 2 Sub boxes (10” Sub + 10” Passive Radiator)
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post #16 of 23 Old 06-30-2018, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey again

As I approach implementation and about to work on the ceiling.

Was wondering what do you guys think about installing 3 focal adjustable in ceil speakers of this model instead of a passive soundbar
Focal ICLCR5
spec sheet

they are supposed to be with an adjustable tweeter so I can adjust it to the listening area
they should match the rear speakers already purchased Focal 100icw6
each does have 2x5inch woofers and 1x 1inch tweeter
everything will be connected to a Denon AVR-X3400H

- afraid how would they sound with music in the room
- afraid about sound coming from the ceiling and not from the tv infront (which I will have anyway for the rear speakers)

would love to hear suggestions if to stick with a passive lcr or opt to these 3x in ceiling speakers for the front stage.

Thanks
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post #17 of 23 Old 06-30-2018, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sim_c View Post
Hey again

As I approach implementation and about to work on the ceiling.

Was wondering what do you guys think about installing 3 focal adjustable in ceil speakers of this model instead of a passive soundbar
Focal ICLCR5
spec sheet

they are supposed to be with an adjustable tweeter so I can adjust it to the listening area
they should match the rear speakers already purchased Focal 100icw6
each does have 2x5inch woofers and 1x 1inch tweeter
everything will be connected to a Denon AVR-X3400H

- afraid how would they sound with music in the room
- afraid about sound coming from the ceiling and not from the tv infront (which I will have anyway for the rear speakers)

would love to hear suggestions if to stick with a passive lcr or opt to these 3x in ceiling speakers for the front stage.

Thanks
Seems reasonable. And if you don't like how they work as FL, FR, you can always use them as Atmos speakers!

Main: Sony XBR75900E, Denon AVR-x4400, Denon POA-5200 (L/R(a) Goldenear supersat 60, (b)FW Boston acoustic Bravo 2. C Goldenear supersat 60C,
SSR DIYSG Volt 6v2. RSS Volt 6, Atmos(.4) Boston acoustics soundware XS
HSU research ULS -15, Episode ES-IW-Dual 8 / Monitor audio IWA 250 amp 2nd Rm: Visio E55, Denon avr730H, Boston Acoustics CR8, cr400 sub.
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post #18 of 23 Old 06-30-2018, 12:43 PM
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Your fears are justified. In-ceiling speakers should be the last option for the front 3. Also, if you are going to go with Klipsch, be sure you have heard a Klipsch speaker first. Very controversial speaker, with many loving it's exaggerated treble, others hating it.

IMO, you should go with the 3 channel passive approach you originally envisioned. Yes, somewhat expensive, but that is the price you pay for the inability to place regular speakers in the room.

Triad, Golden Ear, James, Episode, Def Tech, KEF, PSB, Monitor Audio, Paradigm ... lots of options.

BTW, is that TV stand bolted to the floor? Looks precarious.

EDIT: OK, not a big fan of these speakers, however, if you can go with two "floorstanding" speakers to the sides of the TV, the ORB might just work for you. Can be purchased in a number of finishes (steel) and mounted to their tall stands, they would stylistically meld with the speaker stand you have chosen. You could also get a center channel and attach to the stand in some fashion, under the TV.

https://www.orbaudio.com/collections/mounts-stands

A better (but more expensive) option is the Gallo speaker. They have a stainless steel finish and tall stands that would look really nice with the TV:

https://www.roundsound.com/accessori...or-stand.html#

Lastly, that stand is the reason you are having to jump through hoops for this install. Have you considered a nice credenza-like stand, so you can put actual speakers on it? Or a wall mount, so you can attach speakers to the wall?

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

Last edited by RayGuy; 06-30-2018 at 01:40 PM.
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post #19 of 23 Old 06-30-2018, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Your fears are justified. In-ceiling speakers should be the last option for the front 3. Also, if you are going to go with Klipsch, be sure you have heard a Klipsch speaker first. Very controversial speaker, with many loving it's exaggerated treble, others hating it.

IMO, you should go with the 3 channel passive approach you originally envisioned. Yes, somewhat expensive, but that is the price you pay for the inability to place regular speakers in the room.

Triad, Golden Ear, James, Episode, Def Tech, KEF, PSB, Monitor Audio, Paradigm ... lots of options.

BTW, is that TV stand bolted to the floor? Looks precarious.

EDIT: OK, not a big fan of these speakers, however, if you can go with two "floorstanding" speakers to the sides of the TV, the ORB might just work for you. Can be purchased in a number of finishes (steel) and mounted to their tall stands, they would stylistically meld with the speaker stand you have chosen. You could also get a center channel and attach to the stand in some fashion, under the TV.

https://www.orbaudio.com/collections/mounts-stands

A better (but more expensive) option is the Gallo speaker. They have a stainless steel finish and tall stands that would look really nice with the TV:

https://www.roundsound.com/accessori...or-stand.html#

Lastly, that stand is the reason you are having to jump through hoops for this install. Have you considered a nice credenza-like stand, so you can put actual speakers on it? Or a wall mount, so you can attach speakers to the wall?
It's all about the stand indeed!
it is indeed bolted with the base under the floor ceramics.
I will talk with the stand guy he has solutions for soundbar under the tv, will see If he has solutions to attach 3 speakers under it.

I want to avoid those floor stand even if they kind of look aesthetics, I want to try not to loose any floor space as we will be needing it there.

Really start to want to opt for 3x RSL CG23, and not give up sound quality.
Will see if my stand guy has a solution for that, only fear is the depth, which still is almost 6.5", wide wise they will be perfect as both my tv and the combinations of 3 will be exactly 120-123 cm (about 48")
and of course the aesthetics of such solution.

Else will try looking back at those passive soundbars, sad thing is that living in Tel Aviv, hard to demo almost any of those, and they get real really expensive after shipping and import taxes.
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post #20 of 23 Old 06-30-2018, 03:15 PM
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Attach all three to each other, then attach that bracket to the bracket(s) from the TV ... but, they will stick out a bit. They would probably look better with the front of the speaker flush (or slightly forward of) with the front of the TV. Therein lies the rub! The center riser of the stand will interfere with the depth of the center speaker. Looks like you have 3-4" to work with from the face of the TV to the front of the upright.

One other poster had the same idea and wanted to build a box to house all three speakers ... Seems to me that it would be beneficial to try the solution out first, before committing to that configuration. It is possible that the three speakers do not interact well, that close together. Try it and see first! If that does not work out, perhaps you can mount them center (top or bottom) and sides, instead?

Lots of speaker to TV brackets available on Amazon, etc, but the real issue is connecting all three together (Gorilla Glue?). You should leave a bit of space between or put some sort of buffer in between. The nice finish will be scratched, otherwise.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

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post #21 of 23 Old 07-19-2018, 06:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Arrow Passive Soundbar after all

After some thinking, looks like after all, I will opt to a slim passive sound-bar solution for the aesthetics

Question is now if investing the extra money on the more expensive options would be worth it?
Or it will never give me a good stage for music (only for movies/dialogs) even with a massive sub?

The options for the expensive ones are:
-Martin Logan Motion SLM X3
-GoldenEar Supercinema 3D Array
-PSB Imagine W3

The more cheaper ones:
-Monitor Audio SB2 (soundbar which I couldn't find any comments or review on)
-Versa SB3 soundbar

I currently also already purchased the Focal 100ICW6 for the in-ceil speakers, which unfortunately will now cause a mismatch between the front and back stage but hoping it won't be too bad.
Else if it is guess I should replace them as well.
(Unfortunately focal don't have any passive soundbar to match)

Last edited by sim_c; 07-19-2018 at 06:33 AM. Reason: changed the post icon
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post #22 of 23 Old 11-15-2019, 03:41 PM
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Did this ever get off the ground ? Im looking for (3) soundbars /subs for a 65” wall mount, for the LCR.
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post #23 of 23 Old 11-15-2019, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sim_c View Post
After some thinking, looks like after all, I will opt to a slim passive sound-bar solution for the aesthetics



Question is now if investing the extra money on the more expensive options would be worth it?

Or it will never give me a good stage for music (only for movies/dialogs) even with a massive sub?



The options for the expensive ones are:

-Martin Logan Motion SLM X3

-GoldenEar Supercinema 3D Array

-PSB Imagine W3



The more cheaper ones:

-Monitor Audio SB2 (soundbar which I couldn't find any comments or review on)

-Versa SB3 soundbar



I currently also already purchased the Focal 100ICW6 for the in-ceil speakers, which unfortunately will now cause a mismatch between the front and back stage but hoping it won't be too bad.

Else if it is guess I should replace them as well.

(Unfortunately focal don't have any passive soundbar to match)


I own the Paradigm Millenia Trio and it works fantastic. The GoldenEar I heard as well, but the Paradigm digs a little deeper in the bass. You are correct, it does not have a very wide sound stage. I typically listen to Stereo All Speaker with music and it sounds fantastic. I have 4 in ceiling speakers.
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inceiling , lcr , phasetech , soundbar advice , subwoofer

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