Originally Posted by hughhugh
Since the PSA MTM210T kept being recommended here, I looked it up also. My impression is that it is basically comparable to the SVS UT ? Many reviews seem to favor neither the UT nor the MTm. How would it be an improvement over option 1 ?
I am liking the JBL SCS8 also.
After considering the options being given here, the JTR mains are probably out of my league. The JTR mains + sub combo is looking too expensive. I like the 212RT but hesitate on getting the lower model JTR because my situation will make it difficult to upgrade. So perhaps I should wait a few more years for that. (Given my luck I'm betting that these will go up in price by the time I think I'll be ready. The JTR just increased in price in early June. A few days after I learnt about it.)
I think the limit would be stretching the budget to $12k-$13k from option 1.
Can I ask if the JTR Cap need to be positioned away from the walls ? I have space for about 1m (3ft-ish) deep for the subs. This will be at the front wall behind the screen. I dont think moving around a sub this size is feasible for the room.
While the room will be used more for HT, if I think about it, I actually appreciate speaker differences more during music listening. My preference is to have the singer sound like they are in the room (is this how "sound stage" is defined ?), over loudness.
Originally Posted by hughhugh
Perhaps I'd approach it this way to better determine the value.
I found this youtube demo of the 210RT. Lets use this model as a baseline:
Gow would you rate these speakers agains the 210RT ?
210RT / 38-24Khz / $2500
212T / 35-20khz / $2000
212RT / 35-24khz / $2800
212HTR / 60-24khz / $2600
212HT / 60-20khz / $1700
Aside from the frequency, I cant really tell the difference between the 212 models. Is the difference between 20khz vs 24khz between T and RT worth $800/piece ?
Is the 212HT good enough for music ?
I really don't know if there is an easy way to help you sort through some of your options, but I will give it a shot. To recap what you have said about your objectives and preferences I would summarize as follows. You said that your listening is about 70/30 movies to music. You also said that for music, you are after realism and soundstage more than loudness. So, you want to put together a first-class music system and you want to put together a really good 7.1.4 HT system. (.1 is still dual subs and I am assuming that you will take the advice to use 4 ceiling speakers.)
It seems to me that you are going to have to economize somewhere. Although you didn't ask for help on this part, I would start by economizing on the electronics. I would buy a Marantz SR 7011 or 7012 AVR and use it to power your surround and overhead speakers. You could still get the Emotiva for LCR duties. That will save you some money, with zero
reduction in discernible sound quality or system functionality. (You will want to check your channel deployment strategy. You may want to get an Emotiva which can run 5 channels rather than three in the scenario I am proposing.)
Something else to consider, as you compare the various speakers, is that you will be getting a substantial upgrade in sound quality and performance, compared to your existing Polk's, with almost anything you choose. With that said, I would probably eliminate the SVS Ultra's, particularly since you already auditioned them and weren't especially impressed. I would probably still keep the PSA speakers under consideration. I have read too many good owner reviews from people I trust, including Ray (imureh) to discount them out of hand.
With respect to the JTR speakers, which is where we can all tell you really want to go, it seems to me that you can go for the top-of-the-line RT's or you can compromise somewhat on the 212T or HT. When I say "compromise" it won't be a compromise compared to the Polk's you are used to, or even to the PSA speakers. It will only be a step down from the very best speakers that JTR offers. However, it will be a very large step up compared to what you have heard before. I think it is important to keep that in perspective. In theory, there may always be something a little bit better, but how good is good enough? And, how far can you stretch your budget?
Given your overall situation, if I had
to compromise, I would probably select the 212T for the lower extension. That way, if you did want to use the speakers, without subs for music, you still could. With respect to your question about the difference between 20KHz and 24KHz, there is no practical difference. It isn't only that most men over 30 can't hear frequencies above about 15 or 16KHz. It's also that there is so little content in that range anyway. An octave consists of 8 notes, so in the entire frequency range between 10KHz and 20Khz, there are only 8 pure tones (sine waves). And, no musical instruments play fundamentals anywhere nearly that high, even if we had sources that would carry that content. I wouldn't worry about the difference between 20KHz and 24KHz if I were you.
Finally, though, something that I wouldn't compromise on too much is subwoofers. That is especially the case if 70% of your listening involves movies. There is just too much content under 30Hz in many action movies and blockbusters that you would miss out on, if you didn't have good subwoofers. This is a point that I made before that may have been missed. Regardless of how strong your front speakers may be, you may still want to have independent control of the volume of your bass frequencies--especially for movies.
As we drop below Reference listening levels, the bass equilibrium changes, since we don't hear low-frequencies as well as those in our normal hearing range. In order to restore equilibrium, the great majority of listeners need to add back some bass. Having separate subwoofers not only allows you better placement opportunities (and yes, they can be close to a wall) but it also allows you to adjust the amount of bass you are hearing. In a good HT system, I would almost guarantee that you will find that adjustment ability to be very important.
You mentioned having Cap 4000 ULF's in one of your scenarios. I would instead recommend stepping down to dual Cap 2400 ULF's. The new ones have a 10Hz port tune. Combined with speakers which can produce strong SPL down into the mid-bass range, I believe that the 2400's will give you an ideal bass system, especially in a room which you have described as being about 4300^3.
I haven't tried to add the cost of all of that up, but I think that if you economize (without compromising any performance) on electronics, make good selections for your front three speakers and your subs, and try to be just a little bit economical on the slightly less important surround and ceiling speakers, you will get as close to the ideal music/HT system that you possibly can for anywhere close to your budgeted amount. I hope this helps a little.