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post #91 of 153 Old 06-05-2019, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
So if they're towers and just being bigger is better then they should be better than Sierra 2's right? Lol.

Have you heard either the T1 or the Chanes?


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never have i said "bigger is better" , i was just making an honest comp , when asked for one ...i have heard the a2.4's are nice dynamically , i don't doubt it ...but a tower that has 2 6.5 in. drivers and a 5 inch driver , in general is going to have a fuller sound than a book with dual 5 in drivers.. i don't think it makes much difference in an avg/ small room.. i won't even respond to the sierra 2 comment.. it's was based on a false assumption(that i think bigger is "better")...peace..

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bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #92 of 153 Old 06-05-2019, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
never have i said "bigger is better" , i was just making an honest comp , when asked for one ...i have heard the a2.4's are nice dynamically , i don't doubt it ...but a tower that has 2 6.5 in. drivers and a 5 inch driver , in general is going to have a fuller sound than a book with dual 5 in drivers.. i don't think it makes much difference in an avg/ small room.. i won't even respond to the sierra 2 comment.. it's was based on a false assumption(that i think bigger is "better")...peace..


Have you heard either the A2.4 or the T1?


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post #93 of 153 Old 06-05-2019, 09:48 AM
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Have you heard either the A2.4 or the T1?


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no .. and i don't need to to assume the t1 probably has more dynamic energy .. based on size and specs .. we both know that ..i have nothing against the chane.. i hear they are nice...
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YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #94 of 153 Old 06-05-2019, 09:53 AM
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Chane vs Emotiva

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Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
no .. and i don't need to to assume the t1 probably has more dynamic energy .. based on size and specs .. we both know that ..i have nothing against the chane.. i hear they are nice...


I think it would be best to put the caveat that you haven't heard either of them right up front.


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post #95 of 153 Old 06-05-2019, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
I think it would be best to put the caveat that you haven't heard either of them right up front.


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So Buford have you heard the T1s? We speculate all the time on AVS about speakers we haven't heard. At some point, after hearing 3 or 4 reviews by AVS users, some of the information gets noted and we pass it along. However, to this point, I think it would be reasonable to assume that a 4 driver 3 way with 6 inch woofers and designated midrange might out muscle a two way with 2 5.25 woofer. However, i doubt there is much difference...
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post #96 of 153 Old 06-05-2019, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
I think it would be best to put the caveat that you haven't heard either of them right up front.


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that's certainly an opinion.. hard to argue opinion, modern politics is a great example of why that's hard to do.. we will *both* agree i never claimed to have heard either?.. i think this might be a good place to leave it.. no hard feelings pards ..
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post #97 of 153 Old 06-05-2019, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
So Buford have you heard the T1s? We speculate all the time on AVS about speakers we haven't heard. At some point, after hearing 3 or 4 reviews by AVS users, some of the information gets noted and we pass it along. However, to this point, I think it would be reasonable to assume that a 4 driver 3 way with 6 inch woofers and designated midrange might out muscle a two way with 2 5.25 woofer. However, i doubt there is much difference...


It’s not always the case though, for example the bass is deeper on my Chane A1.4 than is it on my EMP E55Ti. Bass quality is great on both, but those towers with their 3 6.5” woofers and dedicated mid range don’t go as deep. The Chanes continue to amaze me when they are driven hard, but the EMPs are no slouch either in that regard.
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post #98 of 153 Old 06-05-2019, 11:47 AM
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Chane vs Emotiva

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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
So Buford have you heard the T1s? We speculate all the time on AVS about speakers we haven't heard. At some point, after hearing 3 or 4 reviews by AVS users, some of the information gets noted and we pass it along. However, to this point, I think it would be reasonable to assume that a 4 driver 3 way with 6 inch woofers and designated midrange might out muscle a two way with 2 5.25 woofer. However, i doubt there is much difference...


No, i for sure haven't heard the T1.

But you've just categorically 'beaten' both the BMR and Sierra 2 with the T1 by the confines of your own logic. I've heard the Sierra 2; it's REALLY good. Haven't heard the BMR yet but I'm sure i will. I do not think "muscle" has anything to do with the discussions of sound quality and performance that we are want to have here.... unless you're going to start repping Cerwin Vega dual 15" towers now. #moar

I think it's even more reasonable to not make assumptions at all beyond general categorical statements based on physics and acoustical size classes. 'Twood be better to just stick to first-hand experience when discussing something as complex and nuanced as perceived sound quality.


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post #99 of 153 Old 06-05-2019, 01:30 PM
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Exactly, but with the only information ALOT of people have, since most of these ID direct speakers, well, you cannot just go to a show room and listen, is you have to "listen" to reviews of listeners who have heard them. In general and most of the time, speakers follow the laws of physics..however, depending on cabinets, ports, crossovers and tuning, well that can vary. So of course, all things considered, one will only know for sure if they hear both speakers in the same room and likely at the same relative time...
However, in general, i think it is still fair to ASSUME that a larger cabinet speaker with more and large drivers will get louder and hit lower. Now Trans points out that the EMP speakers don't hit as impressive of lows... and as RBH will tell you, those speaker are tuned to not hit as low as they could and should be used with a subwoofer.
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post #100 of 153 Old 06-05-2019, 01:36 PM
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i think the t1's will probably sound marginally "bigger" than a2.4's , but if you have a small/ med. room i think it won't matter very much.. i think the centers will be very close.. i think either will sound very nice for the price point.. my b1's are great for music (unless the goal is *really* loud music).. they are great for ht as well... the amt is smooth . no harsh highs on decent recordings , harsh recordings can get a bit shrill , but less so than most budget speakers.. i think the chane's will also be pretty smooth, their tweeter is similar in sound..best of luck it's a close call , but i think there are no losers here...
I may just flip a coin. Although if I wait a few days, the emotiva will be sold out, and then I'll have to go with the Chanes

I'm leaning towards the chanes for the lcr because it's different than my current setup.

I think either setup will be great
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post #101 of 153 Old 06-05-2019, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Fuzzy_Feet View Post
I may just flip a coin. Although if I wait a few days, the emotiva will be sold out, and then I'll have to go with the Chanes

I'm leaning towards the chanes for the lcr because it's different than my current setup.

I think either setup will be great
I don’t think you can go wrong either way. Both are pretty highly regarded around here.
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post #102 of 153 Old 06-05-2019, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Fuzzy_Feet View Post
I may just flip a coin. Although if I wait a few days, the emotiva will be sold out, and then I'll have to go with the Chanes

I'm leaning towards the chanes for the lcr because it's different than my current setup.

I think either setup will be great
in a small or average size room , i would call it personal preference.. if you haven't heard either flipping a coin is a viable option of picking (they are probably that close) in a big room t1 all day long .. jmo , and opinions vary..

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #103 of 153 Old 06-05-2019, 03:29 PM
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Chane vs Emotiva

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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
Exactly, but with the only information ALOT of people have, since most of these ID direct speakers, well, you cannot just go to a show room and listen, is you have to "listen" to reviews of listeners who have heard them. In general and most of the time, speakers follow the laws of physics..however, depending on cabinets, ports, crossovers and tuning, well that can vary. So of course, all things considered, one will only know for sure if they hear both speakers in the same room and likely at the same relative time...

However, in general, i think it is still fair to ASSUME that a larger cabinet speaker with more and large drivers will get louder and hit lower. Now Trans points out that the EMP speakers don't hit as impressive of lows... and as RBH will tell you, those speaker are tuned to not hit as low as they could and should be used with a subwoofer.


But that's not at all what I'm talking about. I am specifically addressing tendering an opinion (that is potentially not even third-hand, but further disconnected from personal experience than that) that any casual reader will interpret, based on plain wording, that the offerer of said opinion had actual personal experience with said product. And not experience by proxy by proxy.

As for louder and lower, those are trade-offs in and of themselves; trading f3 for sensitivity during the design and tuning phases. When remaining even close in terms of acoustical volume and driver displacement, the differences can be minor. The small signal f6 of these loudspeakers is about 5hz apart. That is close. Especially in HT terms where that difference is completely overshadowed by even a mediocre subwoofer, the effects of the room, and the AVRs high pass crossover.

Bottom line: there is simply no way that any collection of numbers could permit a non-listener to determine which is better between these two speakers. There's no way around it. It is IDs shortfall and ever present weakness. I do not find it necessary to be forced to make categorical assumptions beyond observing output and f3 limits based on acoustical size classes.

And, even then the numbers don't always tell the tale. Look at the BMR. A stunner, by all owner/listener accounts, with regards to bass quality, f3, and output. So, general acoustical size classes can only then be basic guides. Attempting to apply vastly more specific conclusions to a complex and nuanced subject like perceived sound quality is simply an empirical overreach. It's bench racing gone awry.


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post #104 of 153 Old 06-05-2019, 04:36 PM
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Not to mention, Chane is no beauty queen, but Emotiva is bag over the head stuff!
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post #105 of 153 Old 06-05-2019, 04:43 PM
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Not to mention, Chane is no beauty queen, but Emotiva is bag over the head stuff!
lol.. that's the most impartial response in this thread.. and about 99% accurate..

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post #106 of 153 Old 06-05-2019, 04:56 PM
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I have T1, C2 and E2 in a small 11x12 room. They sound great and glad i got them on clearance a month ago. The only thing i changed since putting them in are the E1 that are now E2. This was just due to room issues and talking with emotiva they recomended them since i cant run 7.1 in the room and wanted more surround fill from the rear speakers.
Also have no issues powering them with a Onkyo 830.
My only issue with emotive is no atmos speakers. Was going to get amother set of E1 but are sold out now. Emotiva said an A1 model is coming out soon.
They definitely wont be winning a beauty contest.
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post #107 of 153 Old 06-05-2019, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
But that's not at all what I'm talking about. I am specifically addressing tendering an opinion (that is potentially not even third-hand, but further disconnected from personal experience than that) that any casual reader will interpret, based on plain wording, that the offerer of said opinion had actual personal experience with said product. And not experience by proxy by proxy.

As for louder and lower, those are trade-offs in and of themselves; trading f3 for sensitivity during the design and tuning phases. When remaining even close in terms of acoustical volume and driver displacement, the differences can be minor. The small signal f6 of these loudspeakers is about 5hz apart. That is close. Especially in HT terms where that difference is completely overshadowed by even a mediocre subwoofer, the effects of the room, and the AVRs high pass crossover.

Bottom line: there is simply no way that any collection of numbers could permit a non-listener to determine which is better between these two speakers. There's no way around it. It is IDs shortfall and ever present weakness. I do not find it necessary to be forced to make categorical assumptions beyond observing output and f3 limits based on acoustical size classes.

And, even then the numbers don't always tell the tale. Look at the BMR. A stunner, by all owner/listener accounts, with regards to bass quality, f3, and output. So, general acoustical size classes can only then be basic guides. Attempting to apply vastly more specific conclusions to a complex and nuanced subject like perceived sound quality is simply an empirical overreach. It's bench racing gone awry.


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I'm not disagreeing with you...of course, the only way to know for sure about ANY aspect of a speaker is to listen and measure it in your own room. But since that is often not possible without significant expense, we ALL speculate as to SQ, bass, flat response, etc based on the components in a speaker, the measurement of the manufactures (Kudos to Emotiva and Chane for posting meaningful measurements on their web sites!) and user reviews to make some conclusions in lieu of hearing some the speaker we might have on some list. You have to have some criteria to reduce your list down to a number that you can afford to audition and often those criteria are paper stats. Really, the fair comparison would be the Chane 5.4 and the Emotiva t1s...
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post #108 of 153 Old 06-05-2019, 10:00 PM
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"Marginally bigger" =/= better. Who said anything about better or deeper? Oh, that's right, a strawman said it.

The T1 is firmly in another size class based on its direct radiating surface area and internal volume compared to the A2.4.

FWIW, the T1 has a -6dB point of 37Hz (verified by 3rd party) while the A2.4 is 42Hz (manufacturer's specs.) To me, calling the T1 "marginally bigger" is more than accurate.

Since we are apparently only allowed to link to 1st-person experiences, here is a review of the "bigger" Emotiva T2 and the A2.4:

Quote:
They were more dynamic than the Chane's providing a little bit bigger soundstage...imaging was also very good.
Quote:
They are more dynamic with better low end than the Chane's.

C2:
Quote:
I’m really liking the C2. Powerful, clear, detailed, big soundstage. Definitely more dynamic than the Chane’s A2.4.

My ultimate advice would be to order a pair of T1's and A2.4's, then return the loser. That way, you will be confident that you made the right decision.
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post #109 of 153 Old 06-05-2019, 11:19 PM
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in a small or average size room , i would call it personal preference.. if you haven't heard either flipping a coin is a viable option of picking (they are probably that close) in a big room t1 all day long .. jmo , and opinions vary..
I'm not sure if this is a big room or not. It certainly opens up to a big room, but the main listening area is avg sized.
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post #110 of 153 Old 06-06-2019, 12:54 AM
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To be fair, both you and Jon talk about "acoustical size" and your models with more drivers sounding "acoustically larger" so therefore, Lp's statement makes sense.

In this case, we're comparing against a floorstanding model with much more internal volume, so the "big sound" is probably our perception of the increased bass output.

I don't think it's a logical comparison, but that's what was put out there.

On a personal note, when I audition speakers, knowing that I will be using my dual subs, I compare the speakers with an 80Hz crossover enabled. Why? Because 1) that's how they are going to be run, and 2) bass output of speakers can skew our perceptions and opinions. Level the playing field by comparing with a crossover and subs off, then subs on. Only then will you get a true sense of the differences in the midbass, midrange, and treble.

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post #111 of 153 Old 06-06-2019, 03:41 AM
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Hi FF, thanks for your interest (and sorry for the way things sometime go).

I thought one of your most pertinent points,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy_Feet View Post
...and an HSU VTF2-MK5.
went all but unnoticed, by the way, and promptly went another direction. About a hundred times a year a similar question as yours is asked and notwithstanding the name of the forum, a few hundred replies energetically speculate and estimate.

If comparing, the solution is to either look for direct head to head comparisons from known sources or simply try one yourself. It's always been that way and so far, looks like it'll continue being the way to know for sure. Oh, and things that look similar (or dissimilar) might not be, price points included.

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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
To be fair, both you and Jon talk about "acoustical size" and your models with more drivers sounding "acoustically larger" so therefore, Lp's statement makes sense.
Acoustical size is fundamental to the loudspeaker. (Despite making 5.25" systems - albeit with multiple drivers and double-duty XBL^2 - we've said that on the site for years, mostly because things that look similar but are fundamentally different end up mentally side by side, like boxes with drivers two sizes apart, for example.)

Size class is one way to generally differentiate visual comparisons and the conclusions inferred from them. However in the case where the system's acoustical size is to a large degree found in the bass speaker - going back to FF's original comment - then we refer to other things. Then the class size recedes in importance and a knowledge of how other things work could inform our speculations.

I wish you the best of outcomes, FF, and sorry for the diversions. This is where every once in a while a company might offer to at least try to privately clear up this or that basic point as objectively as can be done.
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post #112 of 153 Old 06-06-2019, 05:06 AM
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i forgot that this was an old thread...the OP long gone! Even the legend that was Zorba in this thread, was this his last AVS posting?

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post #113 of 153 Old 06-06-2019, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
i forgot that this was an old thread...the OP long gone! Even the legend that was Zorba in this thread, was this his last AVS posting?


Sad to see Zorba hasn’t posted in a while.
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post #114 of 153 Old 06-06-2019, 05:39 AM
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He got a life, it would appear...
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post #115 of 153 Old 06-06-2019, 08:38 AM
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I'm not sure if this is a big room or not. It certainly opens up to a big room, but the main listening area is avg sized.
i would call that med size.. either should be plenty
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post #116 of 153 Old 06-06-2019, 09:22 AM
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Shouldn't the test have been the the Chane A5.4 vs the Emotiva T2? Seems to me that is a more level playing field.

Let's face it, these Emotiva prices are not sustainable. Look what happened to the Bas-x subs ... they disappeared and were replaced with far more expensive options. The same will happen with these speakers, so get 'em while they are hot!
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Last edited by RayGuy; 06-08-2019 at 10:36 AM.
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post #117 of 153 Old 06-06-2019, 02:19 PM
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Shouldn't the test been the the Chane A5.4 vs the Emotiva T2? Seems to me that is a more level playing field.

Let's face it, these Emotiva prices are not sustainable. Look what happened to the Bas-x subs ... they disappeared and were replaced with far more expensive options. The same will happen with these speakers, so get 'em while they are hot!
those basx subs were pretty ok too for the price , i have the 8 and the 10 .. both are pretty darn nice for 200/ 300 bucks

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #118 of 153 Old 06-06-2019, 02:26 PM
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He got a life, it would appear...
More likely he finished high school and got kicked out of his parent's basement.
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post #119 of 153 Old 06-06-2019, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Shouldn't the test been the the Chane A5.4 vs the Emotiva T2? Seems to me that is a more level playing field.

Let's face it, these Emotiva prices are not sustainable. Look what happened to the Bas-x subs ... they disappeared and were replaced with far more expensive options. The same will happen with these speakers, so get 'em while they are hot!
That's my conundrum!

The Emotivas will simply be gone soon.... and the Chanes are almost never in stock.

The big reason these two are in the running is the current price tag/specials and the multitude of great reviews.
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post #120 of 153 Old 06-06-2019, 07:34 PM
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That's my conundrum!

The Emotivas will simply be gone soon.... and the Chanes are almost never in stock.

The big reason these two are in the running is the current price tag/specials and the multitude of great reviews.
like you said , flip a coin

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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