Chane vs Emotiva - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 134Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #121 of 153 Old 06-06-2019, 11:14 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Diego
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
like you said , flip a coin
Or........

Go chane for the center... And T1s for the mains

If it was C2 plus T1, I think I'd have pulled the trigger, cuz the C2 looks incredible

I do appreciate the feedback from everyone. Great info.
Lp85253 likes this.
Fuzzy_Feet is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #122 of 153 Old 06-07-2019, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Aus1095's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 251
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
i forgot that this was an old thread...the OP long gone! Even the legend that was Zorba in this thread, was this his last AVS posting?
I am not long gone, I post in the PSA thread and dedicated build area often. I am waiting for Chane to release the new rear speakers in order to go to a 7.2 system.
Lp85253 likes this.

Last edited by Aus1095; 06-07-2019 at 07:57 AM.
Aus1095 is offline  
post #123 of 153 Old 06-07-2019, 07:54 AM
Audio Engineer
 
BufordTJustice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,527
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 596 Post(s)
Liked: 1006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aus1095 View Post
I am not long gone, I post in the PSA thread and dedicated build area often. I am waiting for Chane to release the new rear speakers in order to go to a 7.2 system.







Not sure if that is toward me or who but that's rude. Enjoying my first house and having a space for my movie room.


Pretty sure that was directed at Zorba.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Kini62 likes this.

"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said 'faster horses'." -H. Ford | Parasound HALO C2 pre/pro | modded Adcom MOSFET GFA-5500 | Acurus/Mondial A200x3 | Panny BDT-500 | Google Chromecast Audio/Apple TV 4K | Toshiba SD-9200 CD Transport | Vizio 55" LED/LCD | Darbee DVP-5000S | L+R: Chane MTM Prototype | Chane A2.4 center | surround: custom finished Chane A5rx-c | Member: NATIA, LEVA, & AES (full member).
BufordTJustice is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #124 of 153 Old 06-07-2019, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Aus1095's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 251
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
Pretty sure that was directed at Zorba.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Gotcha! Thank you for clarifying! I edited the comment to remove that part. My bad.

I wish the new A4.4 was released, I am excited to have a complete Chane system. I have been looking at the Emotiva E2 but when I wait for Chane, I usually save money and get a great product at the same time.
BufordTJustice and Lp85253 like this.
Aus1095 is offline  
post #125 of 153 Old 06-07-2019, 08:53 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Elihawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa City, Iowa
Posts: 6,015
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1893 Post(s)
Liked: 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aus1095 View Post
Gotcha! Thank you for clarifying! I edited the comment to remove that part. My bad.

I wish the new A4.4 was released, I am excited to have a complete Chane system. I have been looking at the Emotiva E2 but when I wait for Chane, I usually save money and get a great product at the same time.
yes, I think several of us were poking fun at Zorba, which we often did over the years, even though it appears he doesn't post anymore! I was just trying to point out this this was an older thread and the OP (you) had likely gotten your answers already, as we got a bit of track in arguing about speaker speculation! Good luck.
To FF who seems to be now in the same predicament...Chane? Emotiva? Sounds like you can't go wrong....

Set up #1: EMP e5Ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, SVS NSD SB12 sub, Marantz Slimeline 1504 AV receiver
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and EMPtek10i10i sub, Denon 1910 AV receiver
Set up #3: Philharmonics- BMR in a 2.0 system, music only, Yamaha RXV-363 AV receiver
Elihawk is offline  
post #126 of 153 Old 06-07-2019, 09:03 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,042
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1934 Post(s)
Liked: 1648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy_Feet View Post
Or........

Go chane for the center... And T1s for the mains

If it was C2 plus T1, I think I'd have pulled the trigger, cuz the C2 looks incredible

I do appreciate the feedback from everyone. Great info.
have fun with it.. either or a combo will be fine
BufordTJustice and Fuzzy_Feet like this.

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
Lp85253 is online now  
post #127 of 153 Old 06-12-2019, 09:38 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Diego
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Well, pre-ordered the Chane's. Just really wanted to try identical LCR's, and have something completely different than what I have now.

I'm very much looking forward to getting these and breaking them in
Fuzzy_Feet is offline  
post #128 of 153 Old 06-12-2019, 09:42 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Transmaniacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 6,605
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1785 Post(s)
Liked: 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy_Feet View Post
Well, pre-ordered the Chane's. Just really wanted to try identical LCR's, and have something completely different than what I have now.

I'm very much looking forward to getting these and breaking them in [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
Let us know how you like them!
Lp85253 and Fuzzy_Feet like this.

5.1: Samsung PN60F5300 | Sony BDP-S1700 | Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | Outlaw Ultra-X12

2.0: Oppo DV-980H | Apple Airport Express | Topping D30 | Parasound HCA-1500a | Chane A1.4
Transmaniacon is offline  
post #129 of 153 Old 06-12-2019, 01:59 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,042
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1934 Post(s)
Liked: 1648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy_Feet View Post
Well, pre-ordered the Chane's. Just really wanted to try identical LCR's, and have something completely different than what I have now.

I'm very much looking forward to getting these and breaking them in
you have accomplished your "wants".. enjoy the system
mpk1970 likes this.

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
Lp85253 is online now  
post #130 of 153 Old 06-13-2019, 09:41 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Diego
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
you have accomplished your "wants".. enjoy the system
From what it sounds like, I may be disappointed by them for a week or two.

I dunno. We'll see how they sound vs my Paradigms. Incidentally, the Paradigms sound pretty damn good. Someone will get a hell of a deal when they buy these things from me.
BufordTJustice and Lp85253 like this.
Fuzzy_Feet is offline  
post #131 of 153 Old 06-13-2019, 11:08 AM
Advanced Member
 
Vergiliusm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: The Land of Enchantment
Posts: 604
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 223 Post(s)
Liked: 416
Hmmm, I posted a reply, but apparently it didn't take--maybe the universe's way of telling me I shouldn't be posting at work.

At any rate, there is definitely a different sonic signature, at least from the Paradigms I've owned in the past. As someone who came from and likes the detail of metal dome tweets, I didn't feel like it was a step down with the Chanes. With some types of music and recordings, the planar is smoother without a noticeable loss of detail.

"Rock and roll is alive and alright" Sloan
Vergiliusm is offline  
post #132 of 153 Old 06-13-2019, 11:26 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 4,136
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 1264
I have very limited experience with Paradigms, but the one time I heard them in a showroom, I could say the mid-range is more accentuated than on Chanes. That's not good or bad, just buy to your preference.

I'd put Paradigm in a category with EMP/RBH Impressions series, and Chane with Wharfedale with a warmer, easier to listen to kind of sound, though Chane might be more sparkly up top. Anyone else agree?
BufordTJustice and Lp85253 like this.

HT: Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings) | NAD T758 V3 | Buchardt S400 (2) | Emotiva E2 (2) | Rythmik Audio F12 (2)
Soulburner is online now  
post #133 of 153 Old 06-13-2019, 08:15 PM
Advanced Member
 
Vergiliusm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: The Land of Enchantment
Posts: 604
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 223 Post(s)
Liked: 416
Quote:
I'd put Paradigm in a category with EMP/RBH Impressions series, and Chane with Wharfedale with a warmer, easier to listen to kind of sound, though Chane might be more sparkly up top. Anyone else agree?
Paradigm has a lot of different lines and I'm basing my impression from models 6 or 7 years ago, but to generalize, I'd say they have a slight tilt from the upper midrange on, much like the B&W's I had before them.

The Chanes are pretty neutral. I've heard people say they're sparkly up top, but that hasn't been my experience. IIRC, Jon was saying in the Chane thread that out of the box the leaf tweeter has a small bump in the mid-treble that is unique to that model, but it smooths out very quickly with use. I wouldn't describe them as warm.
BufordTJustice likes this.

"Rock and roll is alive and alright" Sloan
Vergiliusm is offline  
post #134 of 153 Old 06-13-2019, 08:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 4,136
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 1264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vergiliusm View Post
Paradigm has a lot of different lines and I'm basing my impression from models 6 or 7 years ago, but to generalize, I'd say they have a slight tilt from the upper midrange on, much like the B&W's I had before them.

The Chanes are pretty neutral. I've heard people say they're sparkly up top, but that hasn't been my experience. IIRC, Jon was saying in the Chane thread that out of the box the leaf tweeter has a small bump in the mid-treble that is unique to that model, but it smooths out very quickly with use. I wouldn't describe them as warm.
The only reason I say that is my time with the A3rx-c gave me a midrange that wasn't to my liking. It just wasn't there. So the lows and highs stood out.
BufordTJustice likes this.

HT: Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings) | NAD T758 V3 | Buchardt S400 (2) | Emotiva E2 (2) | Rythmik Audio F12 (2)
Soulburner is online now  
post #135 of 153 Old 06-13-2019, 08:41 PM
Advanced Member
 
Vergiliusm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: The Land of Enchantment
Posts: 604
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 223 Post(s)
Liked: 416
Interesting. Another example how brands can change over the years, which is why I wanted to qualify my Paradigm impression.

Am I remembering right that you ordered the Butchardt S400's? When are you supposed to get them?
BufordTJustice likes this.

"Rock and roll is alive and alright" Sloan
Vergiliusm is offline  
post #136 of 153 Old 06-13-2019, 08:46 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 4,136
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 1264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vergiliusm View Post
Interesting. Another example how brands can change over the years, which is why I wanted to qualify my Paradigm impression.

Am I remembering right that you ordered the Butchardt S400's? When are you supposed to get them?
I did. Unfortunately the demand has been so overwhelming, that it's going to be August before I have them. An order of 950 pairs from their manufacturer this time, probably their biggest ever. I'll let you do the math on the value of such a purchase order.

The cool thing is, this was all communicated to us via email, and we were offered a discount for waiting and letting others get first dibs since orders exceeded what will be available this month. I went ahead and took the discount since I'm so busy anyway. I can wait for the next batch, but trust me, I'm eager.

HT: Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings) | NAD T758 V3 | Buchardt S400 (2) | Emotiva E2 (2) | Rythmik Audio F12 (2)
Soulburner is online now  
post #137 of 153 Old 06-14-2019, 01:04 PM
Audio Engineer
 
BufordTJustice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,527
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 596 Post(s)
Liked: 1006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
The only reason I say that is my time with the A3rx-c gave me a midrange that wasn't to my liking. It just wasn't there. So the lows and highs stood out.


See that's where two personal experiences can vary. I actually just got done listening to my buddy's new-to-him A3rx-c stereo setup (which i also set up for him) and I didn't get that impression at all. Very neutral mids, with solid and open imaging, and extended treble.

And I'm used to listening in an acoustically treated lab with fully calibrated/RTA'd studio monitors that i know are flat (due to copious measurements/adjustments).

I'm not at all invalidating what you've said. But i have a strong suspicion that the environment you were in played a huge part in you hearing no mids. Can you describe where you heard them before?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said 'faster horses'." -H. Ford | Parasound HALO C2 pre/pro | modded Adcom MOSFET GFA-5500 | Acurus/Mondial A200x3 | Panny BDT-500 | Google Chromecast Audio/Apple TV 4K | Toshiba SD-9200 CD Transport | Vizio 55" LED/LCD | Darbee DVP-5000S | L+R: Chane MTM Prototype | Chane A2.4 center | surround: custom finished Chane A5rx-c | Member: NATIA, LEVA, & AES (full member).
BufordTJustice is offline  
post #138 of 153 Old 06-14-2019, 01:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 4,136
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 1264
In my room, I auditioned the A3rx-c along with Infinity P362s, EMP E5Tis, and Reaction Audio CX-10s.

The Chanes had the best bass and the clearest, most detailed highs. The mids just weren't there. My bands sounded like they were stuck in a box that I couldn't open to let them out. I gave them 100 hours of "break in", but there was no change.

The Infinitys were your average to above average budget floorstanders. Lots of bass, but unrefined. Midrange was there, but colored a bit. Tweeter wasn't the smoothest, but good.

The EMP speakers were something special in the midrange. My bands sounded like they were in the room - excellent. Guitars, drums, vocals had the impact they should have. Bass was not really powerful, and didn't extend super low, and had an accentuation around the port tune that wasn't the cleanest. Tweeter wasn't the smoothest, but better than the Infinity, and more tonally accurate.

The RA speakers are a coaxial design using a higher end 10" bass driver with a horn-loaded compression driver and a 1500Hz crossover. These probably had the most neutral sound and are what I ended up keeping, along with the EMPs, which are now still cranking at my Dad's place.

I always had my doubts about that room being the best place to test speakers, but they all had the same conditions to contend with. However, Chane speakers are priced at and sold to an audience that largely is going to have ordinary rooms, so a basement home theater is nothing out of the ordinary.

I'm not sure what the cause was but the A3rx-c just didn't sound very good as a package, to the point where it was hard to believe. I just wasn't hearing the neutrality that everyone was talking about.

I would be willing to give A1.5s a chance against the Buchardts this year, as I'm in a better room now with optimal placement, though still untreated.
BufordTJustice likes this.

HT: Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings) | NAD T758 V3 | Buchardt S400 (2) | Emotiva E2 (2) | Rythmik Audio F12 (2)
Soulburner is online now  
post #139 of 153 Old 06-14-2019, 01:49 PM
Audio Engineer
 
BufordTJustice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,527
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 596 Post(s)
Liked: 1006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
In my room, I auditioned the A3rx-c along with Infinity P362s, EMP E5Tis, and Reaction Audio CX-10s.

The Chanes had the best bass and the clearest, most detailed highs. The mids just weren't there. My bands sounded like they were stuck in a box that I couldn't open to let them out. I gave them 100 hours of "break in", but there was no change.

The Infinitys were your average to above average budget floorstanders. Lots of bass, but unrefined. Midrange was there, but colored a bit. Tweeter wasn't the smoothest, but good.

The EMP speakers were something special in the midrange. My bands sounded like they were in the room - excellent. Guitars, drums, vocals had the impact they should have. Bass was not really powerful, and didn't extend super low, and had an accentuation around the port tune that wasn't the cleanest. Tweeter wasn't the smoothest, but better than the Infinity, and more tonally accurate.

The RA speakers are a coaxial design using a higher end 10" bass driver with a horn-loaded compression driver and a 1500Hz crossover. These probably had the most neutral sound and are what I ended up keeping, along with the EMPs, which are now still cranking at my Dad's place.

I always had my doubts about that room being the best place to test speakers, but they all had the same conditions to contend with. However, Chane speakers are priced at and sold to an audience that largely is going to have ordinary rooms, so a basement home theater is nothing out of the ordinary.

I'm not sure what the cause was but the A3rx-c just didn't sound very good as a package, to the point where it was hard to believe. I just wasn't hearing the neutrality that everyone was talking about.

I would be willing to give A1.5s a chance against the Buchardts this year, as I'm in a better room now with optimal placement, though still untreated.


Interesting. I've now heard the A3rx-c in four different rooms (which happen to be in four different homes), and that wasn't my observation in any of them. In fact, not to dogpile, but I've not yet heard another Chane user of the A3rx-c hear what you've heard. Again, not discounting what you've said to any degree.

I suspect you were getting excess room and/or boundary gain. And that can absolutely pollute mid-range performance.

Regardless, i think the A1.5 or L3 would be worth your time in a test drive. I really do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said 'faster horses'." -H. Ford | Parasound HALO C2 pre/pro | modded Adcom MOSFET GFA-5500 | Acurus/Mondial A200x3 | Panny BDT-500 | Google Chromecast Audio/Apple TV 4K | Toshiba SD-9200 CD Transport | Vizio 55" LED/LCD | Darbee DVP-5000S | L+R: Chane MTM Prototype | Chane A2.4 center | surround: custom finished Chane A5rx-c | Member: NATIA, LEVA, & AES (full member).
BufordTJustice is offline  
post #140 of 153 Old 06-14-2019, 02:18 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 4,136
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 1264
Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
I suspect you were getting excess room and/or boundary gain. And that can absolutely pollute mid-range performance.
With the other speakers somehow immune to those effects in the same room.
BufordTJustice likes this.

HT: Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings) | NAD T758 V3 | Buchardt S400 (2) | Emotiva E2 (2) | Rythmik Audio F12 (2)
Soulburner is online now  
post #141 of 153 Old 06-14-2019, 03:16 PM
Audio Engineer
 
BufordTJustice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,527
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 596 Post(s)
Liked: 1006
Chane vs Emotiva

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
With the other speakers somehow immune to those effects in the same room.


Well the EMPs have a forward mid presentation, slightly rolled-off highs, and weaker bass than the A3rx-c. I've heard them. It sounds like your room caused that to seem more neutral than the A3rx-c. The EMPs are well forward of the original A5 and A5rx-c in the mids, which were dead neutral in the A5 series. The A3rx-c was voiced just slightly darker than the A5/A5rx-c. But they're so close that you'd be hard pressed to discern between them on that basis alone unless you A/B'd them. And nobody is accusing the A5 series of having no mids.

Many hundreds of pairs of the A3rx-c sold and your report is the statistical outlier. Granted, i believe that you're telling the truth.

But, again, i just heard really neutral mids coming from a used pair of A3rx-c and a $100 Lepy class-D amp from eBay via Spotify over BT. Literally yesterday at 3pm EST.

It's becoming my opinion that your room had a strong negative influence on the essentially neutral A3rx-c response. That's not a good or bad thing. But it's a thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Jon Lane likes this.

"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said 'faster horses'." -H. Ford | Parasound HALO C2 pre/pro | modded Adcom MOSFET GFA-5500 | Acurus/Mondial A200x3 | Panny BDT-500 | Google Chromecast Audio/Apple TV 4K | Toshiba SD-9200 CD Transport | Vizio 55" LED/LCD | Darbee DVP-5000S | L+R: Chane MTM Prototype | Chane A2.4 center | surround: custom finished Chane A5rx-c | Member: NATIA, LEVA, & AES (full member).

Last edited by BufordTJustice; 06-14-2019 at 03:33 PM.
BufordTJustice is offline  
post #142 of 153 Old 06-14-2019, 04:30 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Jon Lane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,727
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 311 Post(s)
Liked: 1035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
With the other speakers somehow immune to those effects in the same room.
If I may - and since you've commented at least a couple of times before on this same thing - speakers in environments have been a constant theme here. If I'm not mistaken, you eventually resorted to what is fundamentally a relatively expensive, high energy, repurposed stage monitor to overcome the effects of a basement installation, close to or against the wall placement, and for a listener who, again if I remember correctly, prefers a somewhat lively or forward presentation.

Our A3rx-c floor speaker was an affordable, mixed-use, mixed space speaker - and a popular favorite with users - without the characteristics of a 3-way with dedicated, raised midrange, or a symmetrical MTM designed for openness and image size, or a high energy point-source voice monitor. It was designed for a blend of uses and spaces - music certainly not the least of them - and it was designed to sound clean and pleasant.

Set up as we recommended - as another poster in this thread mentions and as I recall myself - the 2.5-way A3rx-c tended to do this and do so consistently. Many of us have heard it:

Quote:
The mids are quite breathtaking. They could be a tad smoother and there’s the slightest hint of dryness to them, but it’s only there if you really listen for it. Artists like Lana del Rey, Zoë Johnston, and Richard Bedford sound better on the Arx than I’ve ever heard them before. When running the speakers as Small, the mids open up more as the woofers are freed of their low-frequency shackles. Vocals are effortless in this configuration – pure audio bliss. The midrange really is where the Arx excel, due to their natural timbre. They sound real, not artificial. I won’t go so far as to say it sounds like you’re at a concert hearing them live, but it’s pretty close.
This was the experience when using the speaker free from the issues that can occur in some spaces.

I don't remember you and I ever speaking. If we hadn't then I can see how a more standard, less HT-specialized compact floor speaker could have been a less than perfect recommendation for an unusual setup.

I'd like to suggest this: We have a number of models planned, all of them upscale and up-market. Much of it derives from our successful 3-way floor speaker and our successful center and LCR model. If you find yourself in the market, get in touch personally and let me ensure, as best I can, that you end up auditioning something well suited for whatever your space and expectations may be today. My goal is genuine: I want to share what I think is good sound and I'm willing to extend personal service to help that happen.
BufordTJustice likes this.
Jon Lane is offline  
post #143 of 153 Old 06-14-2019, 04:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 4,136
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 1264
Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
Well the EMPs have a forward mid presentation, slightly rolled-off highs, and weaker bass than the A3rx-c.
Yes, that was my experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
It sounds like your room caused that to seem more neutral than the A3rx-c.
You don't know that the room somehow changed the character of the midrange. It turns out, I have listened to those speakers in a basement, in an upstairs living room, and in an apartment living room. None of them were treated - just average homes. They sound the same in all 3 rooms. I never said they were neutral, though. It's well-known that the midrange is amped a bit. But that doesn't address the other speakers, which have their own strong and weak points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
The EMPs are well forward of the original A5 and A5rx-c in the mids, which were dead neutral in the A5 series. The A3rx-c was voiced just slightly darker than the A5/A5rx-c. But they're so close that you'd be hard pressed to discern between them on that basis alone unless you A/B'd them.
That is also my understanding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
Many hundreds of pairs of the A3rx-c sold and your report is the statistical outlier. Granted, i believe that you're telling the truth.
Thank you for that, but yes, I understand statistical outliers. It's clear though that I was not hearing small differences as some do with amplifiers. No matter what I did, I could not get them to sound good as a package. Though I have stated many times that I loved the tweeter and wanted to keep it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
But, again, i just heard really neutral mids coming from a used pair of A3rx-c and a $100 Lepy class-D amp from eBay via Spotify over BT. Literally yesterday at 3pm EST.

It's becoming my opinion that your room had a strong negative influence on the essentially neutral A3rx-c response. That's not a good or bad thing. But it's a thing.
Look - I get that your job is to defend the Chane series of speakers. They are well-regarded and don't get a lot of negative reviews, so these comments aren't common. I couldn't believe it myself, and have even noted that my experience was an outlier, for proper framing, even though I didn't have to. But, you don't need to jump on every critical review like it's a fire that needs to be put out. There is no fire here. Buyers will make up their minds based on the preponderance of evidence.

If it were somehow possible, I would like to put the A1.5 or whatever Jon is cooking up on the stands to see how they do vs the S400. No, that is not an even matchup based on price, but they both have similar acoustic goals: much greater bass than you'd expect at their size (that I don't actually need), and a neutral signature through the mids and highs with lots of detail. That's what I'm after - great sound everywhere from 80Hz upward. The point of the comparison would be "what can you get if you spend $1500 more?" I'm not sure if I'll get that chance, but I would enjoy it.

There is no guarantee that I will love the Buchardts, either. That is yet to be seen.
gajCA, BufordTJustice and Lp85253 like this.

HT: Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings) | NAD T758 V3 | Buchardt S400 (2) | Emotiva E2 (2) | Rythmik Audio F12 (2)

Last edited by Soulburner; 06-14-2019 at 04:45 PM.
Soulburner is online now  
post #144 of 153 Old 06-14-2019, 04:44 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bear123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 6,167
Mentioned: 77 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2502 Post(s)
Liked: 3909
Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
See that's where two personal experiences can vary. I actually just got done listening to my buddy's new-to-him A3rx-c stereo setup (which i also set up for him) and I didn't get that impression at all. Very neutral mids, with solid and open imaging, and extended treble.

And I'm used to listening in an acoustically treated lab with fully calibrated/RTA'd studio monitors that i know are flat (due to copious measurements/adjustments).

I'm not at all invalidating what you've said. But i have a strong suspicion that the environment you were in played a huge part in you hearing no mids. Can you describe where you heard them before?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Many subscribe to the "listen in person is the only way to tell if you like a speaker" theory. Would you say that the above is just one of the countless examples illustrating that listening in person in some showroom is in fact not the best way to pick a speaker? That in fact, one should perhaps consider subscribing to Floyd Toole's theory that measurements tell the story better. And that perhaps this should be the driving force behind which speakers to narrow ones choices down to? Perhaps finalizing the decision with a few finalists demo'd in ones home?
BufordTJustice likes this.
bear123 is offline  
post #145 of 153 Old 06-14-2019, 04:55 PM
Audio Engineer
 
BufordTJustice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,527
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 596 Post(s)
Liked: 1006
Chane vs Emotiva

Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Many subscribe to the "listen in person is the only way to tell if you like a speaker" theory. Would you say that the above is just one of the countless examples illustrating that listening in person in some showroom is in fact not the best way to pick a speaker? That in fact, one should perhaps consider subscribing to Floyd Toole's theory that measurements tell the story better. And that perhaps this should be the driving force behind which speakers to narrow ones choices down to? Perhaps finalizing the decision with a few finalists demo'd in ones home?


No, i wouldn't agree. For the simple reason that measurement resolution still needs to develope. Though Toole's work has been invaluable, we're still drawing inferences and attempting to correlate data. So, in that respect, the science of acoustics is still very much incomplete. It's a testable theory.

But using correlated data that indicates preference just above 80% of the time doesn't translate to discussing the finer points of loudspeaker performance in room.

And @Soulburner my job is to be a Forensic audio and video expert (which i am). My efforts here, which are to ensure accurate info regarding a speaker I've heard (and that it correlates with both reality and the user feedback of hundreds of other people) is merely a hobby.

I am a trained listener. An expert court witness regarding audio. And what you've said about the A3rx-c is just something that I can neither corroborate nor agree is accurate. Since I'm not calling your hearing into question, the issue really must be the room. Because you are, literally, they only person to hold this opinion about the A3rx-c, yet you are absolutely the most vocal A3rx-c owner on the internet, i feel compelled to provide context.

If you characterized the mids on the A3rx-c as slightly on the dark side of neutral, i totally agree with that. But, the description of "no mids" is just not empirically correct.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said 'faster horses'." -H. Ford | Parasound HALO C2 pre/pro | modded Adcom MOSFET GFA-5500 | Acurus/Mondial A200x3 | Panny BDT-500 | Google Chromecast Audio/Apple TV 4K | Toshiba SD-9200 CD Transport | Vizio 55" LED/LCD | Darbee DVP-5000S | L+R: Chane MTM Prototype | Chane A2.4 center | surround: custom finished Chane A5rx-c | Member: NATIA, LEVA, & AES (full member).
BufordTJustice is offline  
post #146 of 153 Old 06-14-2019, 05:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bear123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 6,167
Mentioned: 77 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2502 Post(s)
Liked: 3909
Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
No, i wouldn't agree. For the simple reason that measurement resolution still needs to develope. Though Toole's work has been invaluable, we're still drawing inferences and attempting to correlate data. So, in that respect, the science of acoustics is still very much incomplete. It's a testable theory.

But using correlated data that indicates preference just above 80% of the time doesn't translate to discussing the finer points of loudspeaker performance in room.
It seems logical though that using Floyd's measurement parameters, which would provide an 86% chance of choosing a speaker that would be subjectively preferred, would be a pretty effective way to narrow down one's choices as to which speakers to consider for demo or purchase.

Looking at it another way, his research indicates that if you buy speakers that measure poorly, there is an 86% chance that they will sound worse than speakers that measure well. Why wouldn't it make sense to start ones search with speakers that measure well?
BufordTJustice likes this.
bear123 is offline  
post #147 of 153 Old 06-14-2019, 05:56 PM
Audio Engineer
 
BufordTJustice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,527
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 596 Post(s)
Liked: 1006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
It seems logical though that using Floyd's measurement parameters, which would provide an 86% chance of choosing a speaker that would be subjectively preferred, would be a pretty effective way to narrow down one's choices as to which speakers to consider for demo or purchase.



Looking at it another way, his research indicates that if you buy speakers that measure poorly, there is an 86% chance that they will sound worse than speakers that measure well. Why wouldn't it make sense to start ones search with speakers that measure well?


What speakers that get regularly discussed here do not measure well?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said 'faster horses'." -H. Ford | Parasound HALO C2 pre/pro | modded Adcom MOSFET GFA-5500 | Acurus/Mondial A200x3 | Panny BDT-500 | Google Chromecast Audio/Apple TV 4K | Toshiba SD-9200 CD Transport | Vizio 55" LED/LCD | Darbee DVP-5000S | L+R: Chane MTM Prototype | Chane A2.4 center | surround: custom finished Chane A5rx-c | Member: NATIA, LEVA, & AES (full member).
BufordTJustice is offline  
post #148 of 153 Old 06-14-2019, 06:17 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bear123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 6,167
Mentioned: 77 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2502 Post(s)
Liked: 3909
Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
What speakers that get regularly discussed here do not measure well?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There are many well regarded, even very high priced "hi-fi" speakers that measure quite poorly. I'm sure many more that don't provide any measurements and for which there are no third party measurements provided that don't measure well.

Anyone is free to look for themselves. Here a couple of good resources:

https://www.stereophile.com/

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/in...nts&Itemid=153

Both of these sites are riddled with speakers that don't measure well and would fair poorly against truly good sounding speakers.
BufordTJustice likes this.

Last edited by bear123; 06-14-2019 at 06:21 PM.
bear123 is offline  
post #149 of 153 Old 06-14-2019, 06:20 PM
Audio Engineer
 
BufordTJustice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,527
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 596 Post(s)
Liked: 1006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
There are many well regarded, even very high priced "hi-fi" speakers that measure quite poorly. I'm sure many more that don't provide any measurements and for which there are no third party measurements provided that don't measure well.



Anyone is free to look for themselves. Here a couple of good resources:



https://www.stereophile.com/



https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/in...nts&Itemid=153


But we're not discussing any of those.

We're discussing competently designed ID loudspeakers from reputable companies that are known quantities here on AVS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said 'faster horses'." -H. Ford | Parasound HALO C2 pre/pro | modded Adcom MOSFET GFA-5500 | Acurus/Mondial A200x3 | Panny BDT-500 | Google Chromecast Audio/Apple TV 4K | Toshiba SD-9200 CD Transport | Vizio 55" LED/LCD | Darbee DVP-5000S | L+R: Chane MTM Prototype | Chane A2.4 center | surround: custom finished Chane A5rx-c | Member: NATIA, LEVA, & AES (full member).
BufordTJustice is offline  
post #150 of 153 Old 06-14-2019, 06:34 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bear123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 6,167
Mentioned: 77 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2502 Post(s)
Liked: 3909
Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
But we're not discussing any of those.

We're discussing competently designed ID loudspeakers from reputable companies that are known quantities here on AVS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I take "competently designed" with a grain of salt until I see the rubber meet the road with measurements. I'm not going to throw any ID company under the bus. I do think there are a lot of good ID speaker companies, but I also believe there needs to be more objective measurement data available, otherwise we are left to flowery subjective impressions of loyal owners to base our decisions on, or perhaps flawed in person listening tests under questionable conditions.

It's not hard to find examples of well regarded retail and ID speakers that either measure poorly, or worse than advertised.
bear123 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off