wharfedale diamond 11.2 vs elac debut 2.0 b5.2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 66 Old 08-03-2018, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Question wharfedale diamond 11.2 vs elac debut 2.0 b5.2

I have a litle room like 6 feet or 2 meter listen possition from the speakers, so i wonder of these 2, what are better for nearfield?
I wonder also how do they compare in sound quality?

ps. if you know others standspeakers or fllorstanders in the same price, better for litle rooms let me (us) know, please.
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post #2 of 66 Old 08-03-2018, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by buho View Post
I have a litle room like 6 feet or 2 meter listen possition from the speakers, so i wonder of these 2, what are better for nearfield?
I wonder also how do they compare in sound quality?

ps. if you know others standspeakers or fllorstanders in the same price, better for litle rooms let me (us) know, please.
i haven't heard the 11.2s.. the b6.2s should be good for near field .. they sound big and are pretty detailed .. also they aren't over bright...

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bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #3 of 66 Old 08-03-2018, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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hello thanks for the information

i wonder how big is your room? i guess you have the elac b6.2 in your home?
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post #4 of 66 Old 08-03-2018, 11:47 AM
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hello thanks for the information

i wonder how big is your room? i guess you have the elac b6.2 in your home?
no ,i actually heard them at a best buy(several times).. they are from what i heard pretty ok , especially for $300.. i have wharfedale 10.1s.. they are pretty good for near field , i don't know how they compare to the 11's though...
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post #5 of 66 Old 08-03-2018, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by buho View Post
I have a litle room like 6 feet or 2 meter listen possition from the speakers, so i wonder of these 2, what are better for nearfield?
I wonder also how do they compare in sound quality?

ps. if you know others standspeakers or fllorstanders in the same price, better for litle rooms let me (us) know, please.
What % of your usage is HT vs music?

How reflective is your room---lots of hard surfaces (tile or wooden floors, big glass windows) or plenty of soft stuff (carpet/rugs, heavy curtains, plush furniture)?

If it's mostly music and if you have a reflective room I'd go with the Wharfedale for sure.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #6 of 66 Old 08-03-2018, 02:17 PM
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Also, what's your sound preference? Warm, bassy, clear, highs, etc? You're dealing with $300 bookshelves so chances are you aren't going to get everything in one package.

And as was suggested, what you're using them for is a factor as well.
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post #7 of 66 Old 08-04-2018, 05:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
What % of your usage is HT vs music?

How reflective is your room---lots of hard surfaces (tile or wooden floors, big glass windows) or plenty of soft stuff (carpet/rugs, heavy curtains, plush furniture)?

If it's mostly music and if you have a reflective room I'd go with the Wharfedale for sure.
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Originally Posted by _tk View Post
Also, what's your sound preference? Warm, bassy, clear, highs, etc? You're dealing with $300 bookshelves so chances are you aren't going to get everything in one package.

And as was suggested, what you're using them for is a factor as well.
i would prefer clear sounds but i must have also bass, becuase i listen to flute music, jazz, classical, native american, and other traditional music from all over the world, i dont listen to rap, hip pop, regaeton, and only very few tmes in a year some soft rock or pop,

i have a rotel amp and i belive them by nature are bright so i guess the speaker can not be to bright


thank you very much
regards
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post #9 of 66 Old 08-04-2018, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by buho View Post
ps. here is a video of my litle room:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MstMAnNvv0g
it looks like you won't need much volume to fill up that space with good sound.. seeing that the room looks like it is fairly reflective , i think i might try the wharfedale's first.. i think they are a pretty safe bet , unless you need very detailed speakers..
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post #10 of 66 Old 08-04-2018, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by buho View Post
i would prefer clear sounds but i must have also bass, becuase i listen to flute music, jazz, classical, native american, and other traditional music from all over the world, i dont listen to rap, hip pop, regaeton, and only very few tmes in a year some soft rock or pop,

i have a rotel amp and i belive them by nature are bright so i guess the speaker can not be to bright
Sounds like you are an ideal candidate for Wharfedales then---for their warmth as well as lots of mid-bass. The music genres you like are very midrange-dominant, which Wharfedales do beautifully: clear but in a very smooth and clear-but-musical way, rather than sterile/analytical.
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post #11 of 66 Old 08-04-2018, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Sounds like you are an ideal candidate for Wharfedales then---for their warmth as well as lots of mid-bass. The music genres you like are very midrange-dominant, which Wharfedales do beautifully: clear but in a very smooth and clear-but-musical way, rather than sterile/analytical.
i think he might be best served to try a pair of wharfedale denton's.. just a thought ...
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post #12 of 66 Old 08-04-2018, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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it looks like you won't need much volume to fill up that space with good sound.. seeing that the room looks like it is fairly reflective , i think i might try the wharfedale's first.. i think they are a pretty safe bet , unless you need very detailed speakers..
yes i think so too, but in my experience 150mm bass it is to much bass for my room so im afraid the DIAMOND 11.2, would be to much for me i guess i go for the 11.1 i guess the 11.0 is to small?

anyway thanks for your advice
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post #13 of 66 Old 08-04-2018, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Sounds like you are an ideal candidate for Wharfedales then---for their warmth as well as lots of mid-bass. The music genres you like are very midrange-dominant, which Wharfedales do beautifully: clear but in a very smooth and clear-but-musical way, rather than sterile/analytical.


great i feel confortable now about the wharfedales, my rotel have also great midrange sound, i only hope it would no be to much midrange
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i think he might be best served to try a pair of wharfedale denton's.. just a thought ...
i would like but i have no jobb righ now so im looking a speaker of about 250 to 300 euro, but maybe in the future, i get some denton
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ps. here is a video of my litle room:
Curious...what loudspeakers do we see your video? And what Rotel amplifier?
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i would like but i have no jobb righ now so im looking a speaker of about 250 to 300 euro, but maybe in the future, i get some denton
Also, according to Phil @audiofreak38 who has owned both the Dentons and the 220s, the Dentons do not put out much bass.
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post #17 of 66 Old 08-04-2018, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Also, according to Phil @audiofreak38 who has owned both the Dentons and the 220s, the Dentons do not put out much bass.
That is correct Zorba. Warmer in tone than the 220's, but not near as much low end to speak of. The 220's were more neutral than the Dentons as well. Make no mistake though, the Dentons mated to a capable sub is the way to go for music lovers. The 220's are no slouches in and of themselves. But, if I had decided to employ a sub then the Dentons would have easily won out given my preference is, and always will be, on music.


Cheers,

Phil
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Also, according to Phil @audiofreak38 who has owned both the Dentons and the 220s, the Dentons do not put out much bass.
i found the exact opposite to be true. My Dentons had gobs more bass than my 220's which had the least amount of bass of any budget speaker I've heard. According to graphs I've seen, The 220's roll off well above 100Hz and sound like they were sealed instead of ported.

The Dentons had very punchy and deep bass that I could physically feel at my LP which no other 5 inch driver has managed to pull off in my room. There is a big difference in bass perception when sitting near-field as @audiofreak38 does. The Dentons go deep enough to actually excite my room modes which sounds great. Only bigger 6.5 inch drivers have been able to do this. Even the Ascend and Hsu bookshelves didn't have as much bass as the Dentons.

For bass, I would never choose the 220. The 225 is one to get for bass.

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post #19 of 66 Old 08-04-2018, 03:04 PM
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i found the exact opposite to be true. My Dentons had gobs more bass than my 220's which had the least amount of bass of any budget speaker I've heard. According to graphs I've seen, The 220's roll off well above 100Hz and sound like they were sealed instead of ported.

The Dentons had very punchy and deep bass that I could physically feel at my LP which no other 5 inch driver has managed to pull off in my room. There is a big difference in bass perception when sitting near-field as @audiofreak38 does.

For bass, I would never choose the 220. The 225 is one to get for bass.
Your absolutely right. I do listen in the near-field. The closer I positioned the 220's to the back wall the more low end I had. So much so, that I had to move them out a bit more to get what I thought was the right amount. Wanted to keep it all balanced. The Dentons were more articulate, but not nearly as much extension. Also, the Dentons seem to be a bit more fussy to position/placement. I towed them in only a little whereas the 220's were not near as fussy. In terms of SQ and/or extension my B&W CM1 S1's blew both out of the water when I compared their respective low end capabilities. Again, as you mention it was in the near-field. Just wished I was able to take some measurements.


Cheers,

Phil
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Curious...what loudspeakers do we see your video? And what Rotel amplifier?
amp is rotel ra-06 speakers are sharp cp-x8h these speakers have good tweter but it had no so good bass, feels just like litle poor sound(like budged stereo speakers), works well with movies and voice from youtube though
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post #21 of 66 Old 08-04-2018, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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That is correct Zorba. Warmer in tone than the 220's, but not near as much low end to speak of. The 220's were more neutral than the Dentons as well. Make no mistake though, the Dentons mated to a capable sub is the way to go for music lovers. The 220's are no slouches in and of themselves. But, if I had decided to employ a sub then the Dentons would have easily won out given my preference is, and always will be, on music.


Cheers,

Phil
hello, just wonder what is low end?
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post #22 of 66 Old 08-04-2018, 03:13 PM
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hello, just wonder what is low end?
Merely bass. How low does the speaker go that is audible. Most HT enthusiasts prefer their bass to extend to 20 Hz or lower. Music lovers do not need that kind of extension most of the time. However, there is actually some music out there that does dig down real deep. For example, church pipe organ music.


Cheers,

Phil
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post #23 of 66 Old 08-04-2018, 03:19 PM
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Your absolutely right. I do listen in the near-field. The closer I positioned the 220's to the back wall the more low end I had. So much so, that I had to move them out a bit more to get what I thought was the right amount. Wanted to keep it all balanced. The Dentons were more articulate, but not nearly as much extension. Also, the Dentons seem to be a bit more fussy to position/place. I towed them in only a little whereas the 220's were not near as fussy. In terms of SQ and/or extension my B&W CM1 S1's blew both out of the water when I compared their respective low end capabilities. Again, as you mention it was in the near-field. Just wished I was able to take some measurements.


Cheers,

Phil
Positioning is so important. I thought the 220's were actually better-balanced overall. They seem more neutral where the Dentons did some weird stuff in the treble that I couldn't ever tame. I think the 225's might be better than either but I've never heard them.

Something about that bottom-slotted port just didn't fill my room at all. Maybe my pair was faulty. But I really found the Denton bass extension to be exceptional. It reminded me of the ELAC B5's but much more articulate. It had that kind of kick and power in my room.

I agree that the inset front baffle of the Dentons make them a nightmare to position and gives them a strangely piercing quality even though they are very well-extended and detailed up top. Ultimately, I found the 220's to sound very similar to my Elac B5.2's (bass light and little forward) while the Dentons were kinda too biting but had nice punchy bass (maybe like the Q100/150's bass but a bit deeper and punchier.)

I don't know, I really wanted to like the Dentons but I didn't. If I had used them nearfield, I might have actually hated them lol. If I were buying a Wharfedale today, I'd get the 225 (or 11.2's if they are similar as I think they look much better).
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post #24 of 66 Old 08-04-2018, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Merely bass. How low does the speaker go that is audible. Most HT enthusiasts prefer their bass to extend to 20 Hz or lower. Music lovers do not need that kind of extension most of the time. However, there is actually some music out there that does dig down real deep. For example, church pipe organ music.


Cheers,

Phil
I see thank you very much;

Ps. I belive floorstanders, sound better for church pipes, or a subwoofer for movies. I myselt like more the bass sound of a 2 way floorstander than subwoofer.
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Positioning is so important. I thought the 220's were actually better-balanced overall. They seem more neutral where the Dentons did some weird stuff in the treble that I couldn't ever tame. I think the 225's might be better than either but I've never heard them.

Something about that bottom-slotted port just didn't fill my room at all. Maybe my pair was faulty. But I really found the Denton bass extension to be exceptional. It reminded me of the ELAC B5's but much more articulate. It had that kind of kick and power in my room.

I agree that the inset front baffle of the Dentons make them a nightmare to position and gives them a strangely piercing quality even though they are very well-extended and detailed up top. Ultimately, I found the 220's to sound very similar to my Elac B5.2's (bass light and little forward) while the Dentons were kinda too biting but had nice punchy bass (maybe like the Q100/150's bass but a bit deeper and punchier.)

I don't know, I really wanted to like the Dentons but I didn't. If I had used them nearfield, I might have actually hated them lol. If I were buying a Wharfedale today, I'd get the 225 (or 11.2's if they are similar as I think they look much better).
I read somewere the new series are litle more bright than the old debut serie, whathifi give it 4 stars to the new wharfedale 11.1; but maybe these guys from whathifi are more for speakers for rock, pop and modern music?
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I read somewere the new series are litle more bright than the old debut serie, whathifi give it 4 stars to the new wharfedale 11.1; but maybe these guys from whathifi are more for speakers for rock, pop and modern music?
Hmm, I'm not sure I'd want something brighter than the 220's I auditioned. If the 11.X's are voiced brighter, then I would need to audition them first. I do think they look super slick though. The 200-series were no-go's in the looks department for me which is why I kept the 10.1's instead.

The 10.X's roll-off fast at 10kHz (and maybe even lower than that) so they aren't very neutral or detailed. I like them for music but not for TV/movies. I use my Elac 5.2's for video sources and I might upgrade to the B6.2's if my incoming Phil AAM's don't work in my room.
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post #27 of 66 Old 08-04-2018, 03:40 PM
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Positioning is so important. I thought the 220's were actually better-balanced overall. They seem more neutral where the Dentons did some weird stuff in the treble that I couldn't ever tame. I think the 225's might be better than either but I've never heard them.

Something about that bottom-slotted port just didn't fill my room at all. Maybe my pair was faulty. But I really found the Denton bass extension to be exceptional. It reminded me of the ELAC B5's but much more articulate. It had that kind of kick and power in my room.

I agree that the inset front baffle of the Dentons make them a nightmare to position and gives them a strangely piercing quality even though they are very well-extended and detailed up top. Ultimately, I found the 220's to sound very similar to my Elac B5.2's (bass light and little forward) while the Dentons were kinda too bitting but had nice punchy bass (maybe like the Q100/150's bass but a bit deeper and punchier.)

I don't know, I really wanted to like the Dentons but I didn't. If I had used them nearfield, I might have actually hated them lol. If I were buying a Wharfedale today, I'd get the 225 (or 11.2's if they are similar as I think they look much better).
If you ever get the chance, give the B&W speakers a listen. The CM1 S1's were extraordinary in that they offered low end so well that I thought my sub was on. I actually checked several times to make sure it was not playing. Moreover, the quality/linearity of the bass was mesmerizing to say the least. How B&W accomplished such in a 5" mid is nothing short of amazing.

The Dentons were more articulate albeit punchy, but the 220's played deeper in my room. Lets not forget how much the room can play. As mentioned previously, I would have given anything if I could had taken some measurements. That would, at least, explain some of what I was hearing. BTW, just for ****s and giggles I setup the Dentons like I had my HT setup and could NOT make it through one BR movie. It really was that bad. Did NOT have any issues with either the 220's or the B&W CM1 S1's. Perhaps, my set of Dentons may be the issue, no?


Cheers,

Phil
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post #28 of 66 Old 08-04-2018, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by audiofreak38 View Post
If you ever get the chance, give the B&W speakers a listen. The CM1 S1's were extraordinary in that they offered low end so well that I thought my sub was on. I actually checked several times to make sure it was not playing. Moreover, the quality/linearity of the bass was mesmerizing to say the least. How B&W accomplished such in a 5" is nothing short of amazing.

The Dentons were more articulate albeit punchy, but the 220's played deeper in my room. Lets not forget how much the room can play. As mentioned previously, I would have given anything if I could had taken some measurements. That would, at least, explain some of what I was hearing. BTW, just for ****s and giggles I setup the Dentons like I had my HT setup and could NOT make it through one BR movie. It was that bad. Did NOT have any issues with either the 220's or the B&W CM1 S1's. Perhaps, my set of Dentons may be the issue, no?


Cheers,

Phil
I would absolutely love to audition a higher end pair of B&W's. The CM series is no joke.

What was it that kept you from making it through a single BR? The highs or lows? To me, it was that tweeter that penetrated my brain (not in a good way haha). And yes, it was excessive sibilance that killed video sources and SOME music (some music sounded lovely but not all). The bass in my room was what I missed the most, and is something I'm actually still chasing to this day, with the AA's hopefully up to the task.

Also, I don't think the quality control on the Dentons is to be admired. I've read many reports of faulty drivers.

(Might be an overall Wharfedale issue though as my first pair of Diamonds were rattling like a maraca upon arrival. MusicDirect had no issues exchanging it for me. They even expedited the replacements at no cost, I love MusicDirect).
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Last edited by l0nestar8; 08-04-2018 at 03:53 PM.
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post #29 of 66 Old 08-04-2018, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by l0nestar8 View Post
I would absolutely love to audition a higher end pair of B&W's. The CM series is no joke.

What was it that kept you from making it through a single BR? The highs or lows? To me, it was that tweeter that penetrated my brain (not in a good way haha). And yes, it was excessive sibilance that killed video sources and SOME music (some music sounded lovely but not all).
You know it seemed to be everything. Imaging was practically non-existent. There is no doubt in my mind that the Dentons are more fussy to place properly. I think it may have been more of the image that I was receiving at my MLP. I am like no matter how I placed them albeit with and/or without tow in made very little difference. Not exactly sure how to describe it, but it just was not there. Things did not sound like they were placed properly w/in the image itself. Drove me bonkers! All in all, the 220's won out for HT. But props to the CM1 S1's in terms of low end.


Cheers,

Phil
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post #30 of 66 Old 08-04-2018, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmm, I'm not sure I'd want something brighter than the 220's I auditioned. If the 11.X's are voiced brighter, then I would need to audition them first. I do think they look super slick though. The 200-series were no-go's in the looks department for me which is why I kept the 10.1's instead.

The 10.X's roll-off fast at 10kHz (and maybe even lower than that) so they aren't very neutral or detailed. I like them for music but not for TV/movies. I use my Elac 5.2's for video sources and I might upgrade to the B6.2's if my incoming Phil AAM's don't work in my room.
Sorry i belive, i mix it, i guess it was the new elac debut b series that are more brighter than the old elac debut, my apologise
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