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sbinkley 08-08-2018 12:56 PM

Rethinking my approach...please help
 
So after asking for some feedback for on/in-wall systems, I just really don't think I am going to get what I want. Nobody really seems to think there is a good on-wall speaker. So, I am willing to go the floorstanding or bookshelf route.

Room: 16'W x 20'D x 8'H.
Receiver: Pioneer Elite VSX-90
Main Purpose: Movies (and maybe 10% music)
Budget: $1200-$1500 for front and center channels
IMPORTANT: The speakers need to either be sealed or ported in the front as I will need them very close to the wall.

Please give your suggestions. The budget will drop a little if I need to add a subwoofer. Thanks for your help!

Figit090 08-08-2018 01:25 PM

KEF q series have front facing ports and radiators. Check those out!

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

bombzombie 08-08-2018 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbinkley (Post 56611594)
So after asking for some feedback for on/in-wall systems, I just really don't think I am going to get what I want. Nobody really seems to think there is a good on-wall speaker. So, I am willing to go the floorstanding or bookshelf route.

Room: 16'W x 20'D x 8'H.
Receiver: Pioneer Elite VSX-90
Main Purpose: Movies (and maybe 10% music)
Budget: $1200-$1500 for front and center channels
IMPORTANT: The speakers need to either be sealed or ported in the front as I will need them very close to the wall.

Please give your suggestions. The budget will drop a little if I need to add a subwoofer. Thanks for your help!

Have you looked at Monoprice's Amber series speakers? I used to be a Martin Logan tower owner then I got married and had to deal with WAF, but I was pleasantly surprised by the response and depth of those in-wall speakers.

Elihawk 08-08-2018 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbinkley (Post 56611594)
So after asking for some feedback for on/in-wall systems, I just really don't think I am going to get what I want. Nobody really seems to think there is a good on-wall speaker. So, I am willing to go the floorstanding or bookshelf route.

Room: 16'W x 20'D x 8'H.
Receiver: Pioneer Elite VSX-90
Main Purpose: Movies (and maybe 10% music)
Budget: $1200-$1500 for front and center channels
IMPORTANT: The speakers need to either be sealed or ported in the front as I will need them very close to the wall.

Please give your suggestions. The budget will drop a little if I need to add a subwoofer. Thanks for your help!

Subwoofer in your plans? If so and you cross your speakers at say 80hz, the rear port will be irrelevant or at least, very lightly used.

sbinkley 08-08-2018 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elihawk (Post 56611812)
Subwoofer in your plans? If so and you cross your speakers at say 80hz, the rear port will be irrelevant or at least, very lightly used.

Definitely plan on having a sub (thinking of HSU VTF). So are you saying I could have floorstanding or bookshelf speakers with a rear port if I cross them properly?

sbinkley 08-08-2018 01:47 PM

I have been looking at Q Acoustics 3000 series, Canton GLEs, Ascend Acoustics 340SE w/stands, and for a sub HSU VTF-2 mostly due to most bang for the buck...

mattztt 08-08-2018 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbinkley (Post 56611832)
Definitely plan on having a sub (thinking of HSU VTF). So are you saying I could have floorstanding or bookshelf speakers with a rear port if I cross them properly?

The port is there to extend the bass response and is probably tuned to something like 50-60Hz. If you have a sub and crossover at 80Hz then the the port will be doing very little and obstructing it will likely have little-to-no noticeable effect.

Erighan 08-08-2018 02:24 PM

I was just in the market for a front port 3.0 set of speakers (already have sub, amp, and surrounds). My budget wasn't as much as yours, but I ended up buying both the Elac Debut 2.0 and the HTD Level 3 bookshelf speakers and matching center.

The HTD speakers cost about $550 after shipping and the Elacs were around $450.

In the end, the sound quality from both was awesome. Both hand strong dynamic clarity in the mid to upper frequency range. However, I did feel the HTD center was a bit more to my liking. Vocal clarity seemed slightly more crisp for movies. Also, since I have a sub, I didn't worry about either's performance on the low end.

But, when it came to build quality, the HTD Level 3s were SO much better than the Elacs. The Elacs just had that "cheap" look to them, mainly because of the basic veneer finish and the standard box design. Nothing about them felt special or unique. On the other hand, the HTDs that I got have a satin black finish that just feels "premium". Other fit/finish details like terminals, covers, bevelled face, etc, also help to set them apart.

The only negative I have about the HTDs, is their size. They're massive speakers. So depending on your space, it might be a factor.

Hope that helps.

sbinkley 08-08-2018 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattztt (Post 56611930)
The port is there to extend the bass response and is probably tuned to something like 50-60Hz. If you have a sub and crossover at 80Hz then the the port will be doing very little and obstructing it will likely have little-to-no noticeable effect.

So here is my complete amateurism. Will I be setting the crossover on the sub, speakers, or through the receiver? Thanks!

sbinkley 08-08-2018 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erighan (Post 56612128)
I was just in the market for a front port 3.0 set of speakers (already have sub, amp, and surrounds). My budget wasn't as much as yours, but I ended up buying both the Elac Debut 2.0 and the HTD Level 3 bookshelf speakers and matching center.

The HTD speakers cost about $550 after shipping and the Elacs were around $450.

In the end, the sound quality from both was awesome. Both hand strong dynamic clarity in the mid to upper frequency range. However, I did feel the HTD center was a bit more to my liking. Vocal clarity seemed slightly more crisp for movies. Also, since I have a sub, I didn't worry about either's performance on the low end.

But, when it came to build quality, the HTD Level 3s were SO much better than the Elacs. The Elacs just had that "cheap" look to them, mainly because of the basic veneer finish and the standard box design. Nothing about them felt special or unique. On the other hand, the HTDs that I got have a satin black finish that just feels "premium". Other fit/finish details like terminals, covers, bevelled face, etc, also help to set them apart.

The only negative I have about the HTDs, is their size. They're massive speakers. So depending on your space, it might be a factor.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for that. I was looking at some on-wall HTD speakers (Versa HTS) but didn't get the feeling many people liked them. I will look into their other speakers.

mattztt 08-08-2018 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbinkley (Post 56612258)
So here is my complete amateurism. Will I be setting the crossover on the sub, speakers, or through the receiver? Thanks!

It is set on the receiver. Typically you will set the speaker size on the receiver to "small" which will enable the crossover. The specifics depend on your particular receiver.

sbinkley 08-08-2018 03:43 PM

So knowing that I am going to run a sub, would I be better off with floorstanding speakers or bookshelf on stands?

HTD Level Three? Canton GLE? Q Acoustics? Ascend Acoustics (HTM-200SE)? Emotiva Airmotiv (not sure if I can run these though because I see they are 4ohm and my receiver doesn't say anything about that low)?

mattztt 08-08-2018 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbinkley (Post 56612572)
So knowing that I am going to run a sub, would I be better off with floorstanding speakers or bookshelf on stands?

HTD Level Three? Canton GLE? Q Acoustics? Ascend Acoustics (HTM-200SE)? Emotiva Airmotiv (not sure if I can run these though because I see they are 4ohm and my receiver doesn't say anything about that low)?

Whether you go with bookshelf or tower depends on your own tastes and space requirements. Without a subwoofer you'd probably need to go with towers to get a reasonable amount of bass. With a subwoofer either will work be fine.

It looks like your receiver requires 8-ohm speakers.

Elihawk 08-08-2018 07:02 PM

As Matt says, personal taste as to whether you go books or tower...however, for the money you can often get better quality books than towers (towers can have more drivers, bigger cabinets, etc more expense). Again, it depends. I really like three way speakers, so those are often, but not always tower speakers. My PHil-BMR is a three way bookshelf, but it is NOT a small speaker!

NewtoAVBob 08-08-2018 07:53 PM

ive gone through the same scenario. tower or bookshelf, using hsu vtf2 mk5

every time i went with bookshelves (one woofer, never tried a 2 woofer bookshelf) i always felt something was missing. im guessing midbass. i noticed this in movie watching. always went with 80 crossover, havent experimented with 60.

im doing towers from now on unless its a 3 way bookshelf with midbass woofer but there arent many of those to choose from.


for instance, my emptek towers have a midbass woofer. klipsch rp280 has two 8 inch woofers. sure the klipsch had more bass but the emteks bass sounded more even, though laidback.


there is only so many speakers you can demo. this is a neverending hobby trying to find the right sound with so many variables and im kind of sick of it.

Zorba922 08-08-2018 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbinkley (Post 56612572)
So knowing that I am going to run a sub, would I be better off with floorstanding speakers or bookshelf on stands?

HTD Level Three? Canton GLE? Q Acoustics? Ascend Acoustics (HTM-200SE)? Emotiva Airmotiv (not sure if I can run these though because I see they are 4ohm and my receiver doesn't say anything about that low)?

Only 10% music use plus a sub, yes of course you'd be better off with bookshelves.

If you are concerned about low impedance then the Ascends and HTDs should be the easiest for your receiver to drive. Chanes would also be a good choice.

RayGuy 08-08-2018 08:04 PM

$1500 for front 3 and sub.

sbinkley 08-09-2018 06:25 AM

I like the idea of a 3-way speaker...really seems to make sense. Any thoughts on the Pioneer Elite with Atmos?

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...akers/SP-EFS73

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...rs/SP-EBS73-LR

If I did the bookshelves I would still have enough to get the sub (VTF-2), but if I did the floorstanding ones I'd have to wait.

gajCA 08-09-2018 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbinkley (Post 56614950)
I like the idea of a 3-way speaker...really seems to make sense. Any thoughts on the Pioneer Elite with Atmos?

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...akers/SP-EFS73

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...rs/SP-EBS73-LR

If I did the bookshelves I would still have enough to get the sub (VTF-2), but if I did the floorstanding ones I'd have to wait.

I've only heard good things about those speakers on AVS.

Doe Doe 08-09-2018 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbinkley (Post 56612572)
So knowing that I am going to run a sub, would I be better off with floorstanding speakers or bookshelf on stands?

HTD Level Three? Canton GLE? Q Acoustics? Ascend Acoustics (HTM-200SE)? Emotiva Airmotiv (not sure if I can run these though because I see they are 4ohm and my receiver doesn't say anything about that low)?

What speakers have you heard and liked? Prefer a warm/neutral/bright speaker?

For movies, I'll assume you will want at least neutral, maybe slightly bright. If it was me, I'd cross the Canton GLE off the list unless it's the newer version w/ metal tweeter. The soft tweeter GLEs are better for music than HT in my opinion.

And if unsure what you like, safest way to go is to pick brands w/ free returns.

sbinkley 08-09-2018 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gajCA (Post 56616644)
Quote:

Originally Posted by sbinkley (Post 56614950)
I like the idea of a 3-way speaker...really seems to make sense. Any thoughts on the Pioneer Elite with Atmos?

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...akers/SP-EFS73

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...rs/SP-EBS73-LR

If I did the bookshelves I would still have enough to get the sub (VTF-2), but if I did the floorstanding ones I'd have to wait.

I've only heard good things about those speakers on AVS.

Unfortunately my receiver can only go down to 6ohms and these speakers are 4ohm. Definitely a bummer.

sbinkley 08-09-2018 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doe Doe (Post 56616782)
Quote:

Originally Posted by sbinkley (Post 56612572)
So knowing that I am going to run a sub, would I be better off with floorstanding speakers or bookshelf on stands?

HTD Level Three? Canton GLE? Q Acoustics? Ascend Acoustics (HTM-200SE)? Emotiva Airmotiv (not sure if I can run these though because I see they are 4ohm and my receiver doesn't say anything about that low)?

What speakers have you heard and liked? Prefer a warm/neutral/bright speaker?

For movies, I'll assume you will want at least neutral, maybe slightly bright. If it was me, I'd cross the Canton GLE off the list unless it's the newer version w/ metal tweeter. The soft tweeter GLEs are better for music than HT in my opinion.

And if unsure what you like, safest way to go is to pick brands w/ free returns.

This is where I’m a complete amateur, but I’m thinking neutral. Is a 3-way speaker necessary for the best sound?

gajCA 08-09-2018 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbinkley (Post 56616894)
Unfortunately my receiver can only go down to 6ohms and these speakers are 4ohm. Definitely a bummer.

Well, Sound & Vision found them to bottom out at 4.8 ohms, which is much higher than they found with the Emotiva T1 (3.5 ohms) and C1 (4.2 ohms) and AVS members with "normal" AVRs haven't reported a lot of AVR meltdowns with those so I'm not sure I'd worry all that much.

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...iew-test-bench

gajCA 08-09-2018 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbinkley (Post 56616900)
This is where I’m a complete amateur, but I’m thinking neutral. Is a 3-way speaker necessary for the best sound?

As Andrew Jones, the Pioneer/Elac designer once said, "the best two way is a three way."

Mind you I've never owned a three way and have had great results but he, and other speakers designers, are in agreement that, all things being of equal quality, a three way is a better (and more expensive) design than than a 2 way.

Dennis Murphy, (Philharmonic Audio), will tell you that his 2 way RAAL is not as good as his 3 way RAAL speaker and AVS owners of those products would concur.

But a three way from brand A may not be as good as a 2 way from brand B so there IS that! :p

sbinkley 08-09-2018 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gajCA (Post 56616968)
Quote:

Originally Posted by sbinkley (Post 56616894)
Unfortunately my receiver can only go down to 6ohms and these speakers are 4ohm. Definitely a bummer.

Well, Sound & Vision found them to bottom out at 4.8 ohms, which is much higher than they found with the Emotiva T1 (3.5 ohms) and C1 (4.2 ohms) and AVS members with "normal" AVRs haven't reported a lot of AVR meltdowns with those so I'm not sure I'd worry all that much.

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...iew-test-bench

Thanks for that, that is very helpful. The risk I run using those speakers would be basically wrecking my receiver, but until it does that it should sound good!?

gajCA 08-09-2018 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbinkley (Post 56617028)
Thanks for that, that is very helpful. The risk I run using those speakers would be basically wrecking my receiver, but until it does that it should sound good!?

Maybe ask in the Emotiva thread as there are far fewer owners on AVS of the Pioneer Elite speakers though the few of them that own them really like them.

@Zorba922 recently bought Emotivas using his relatively modest AVR (don't remember the brand) and IIRC correctly has reported no increased temperature on his AVR vs his prior speakers, (Wharfedale among others).

zieglj01 08-09-2018 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbinkley (Post 56616900)
This is where I’m a complete amateur,

Neutral is fine, and it comes down to your ears -- and most people do like the Canton GLE for movies and music -- and I would keep them on a short list

Doe Doe 08-09-2018 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbinkley (Post 56616900)
This is where I’m a complete amateur, but I’m thinking neutral. Is a 3-way speaker necessary for the best sound?

As already stated, 3-way may be better than 2-way, but it's not necessary. And a good 2-way will beat a so-so 3-way speaker.

My main setup has some 3-ways and I find they provide a fuller sound over 2-way bookshelves I have tried there. But I also have some 2-way speakers in another room that are very decent too. Basically it comes down to your ears and wallet.

If a Best Buy is near you, especially one with a Magnolia room, I suggest taking a run up there and listen to whatever they have out. Elac (2nd version), Polk Signatures, Cores, Martin Logan (pricey), Klipsch RP, etc.

And don't buy anything nor pay any attention to whatever the salespeople may try to sell you. Just go there to listen, figure out what your ears prefer.

Zorba922 08-09-2018 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gajCA (Post 56617056)
@Zorba922 recently bought Emotivas using his relatively modest AVR (don't remember the brand) and IIRC correctly has reported no increased temperature on his AVR vs his prior speakers, (Wharfedale among others).

Yep, my experience has led me to hypothesize that Emotiva mainly uses the "4 ohm" impedance spec to nudge people into buying their (reputedly excellent) external amps, which are likely more profitable.

Caveat: I am not one to blast my speakers to +85db reference levels. If you do, then it might be a better idea to look elsewhere.


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