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post #61 of 122 Old 08-30-2018, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Pyxle View Post
I don't know; I have used separates for too long to pay attention to true receiver capacity.



http://www.subwoofer101.com/setting-...uble-bass-etc/



You are never going to run either of these subs in a mixed-used space at a high enough volume to need more output. The Hsu series can shake your whole house with a single sub. Because of phase cancellation it's not a simple +6db anyway. The only benefit to an additional sub is phase uniformity. Not power, not extension.
I literally just read the subwoofer 101 article page and was about to respond when I saw your response come through. That article explains the point you've been trying to make perfectly. I understand now. Thank you.

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post #62 of 122 Old 08-30-2018, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Brandon Smith View Post
It seems like the pro/cons of the dual sub & bookshelf set up outweighs the towers to me. Since I think I would never max out the volume of the bookshelf speakers, it seems like the more linear response of two subs across the entire low frequency spectrum would be more beneficial to me.

If I'm misinterpreting something or incorrect in what I'm saying please correct me and explain in detail so I understand. I'm legitimately trying to learn!
Yes, if 1. HT not 2.0 music listening is your main priority, and 2. You're not a volume freak, nor sitting +12ft away from the front speakers, then bookshelves + sub is the way to go.

Dual sub VTF-2 vs single VTF-3 = do you prioritize extra subsonic extension/output over MORE UNIFORM output that doesn't go as far under 20Hz? If you love big budget action/thriller movies that have tons of LFE and want to FEEL the bass as much as hear it, then the single VTF-3 (or VTF-15H for maximum subsonics) would be better.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #63 of 122 Old 08-30-2018, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Yes, if 1. HT not 2.0 music listening is your main priority, and 2. You're not a volume freak, nor sitting +12ft away from the front speakers, then bookshelves + sub is the way to go.

Dual sub VTF-2 vs single VTF-3 = do you prioritize extra subsonic extension/output over MORE UNIFORM output that doesn't go as far under 20Hz? If you love big budget action/thriller movies that have tons of LFE and want to FEEL the bass as much as hear it, then the single VTF-3 (or VTF-15H for maximum subsonics) would be better.
1. 2. & 3. does describe me. However, I do like to feel the bass.

The "more uniform output" is what I need to quantify, which I know will be different for every room. This probably deserves a separate post on the subwoofer forum section, but I think I need to get an idea of typically how differently the response is seat to seat on a single subs vs. dual subs. Let's say if my MLP is the two inner seats on the two love couches and bass response is 100% at those seats, on the outer seats would the response be 90%? 80%? On the side couch, would the response be 70/80% of the MLP?

If the response is only around 80% of the MLP, then that's probably negligible to me. Since this will be my first serious set up I doubt my ears are nitpicky enough to be able to notice a huge difference from seat to seat.

Now if the response is say 50% of the MLP, that would be much more obvious and having two subs would probably outweigh the benefit of having the towers blend over more nicely.

I made a little chart based off the data on HSU's website comparing 2 VTF 2.5's to a single VTF 3.5. I added 3db to the single VTF 2.5 to represent having two. Interestingly enough, the duals beat out the single below 16Hz, but start to fall behind as the frequencies climb.

As Pyxle said, and I think I would agree, I don't think I would ever max out the volume of 2 VTF 2.5's (which have lower output that a single 3.5). Therefore I ultimately need to answer, what is more perceivable?

The improved blending of towers vs. bookshelfs we've been discussing, or the improved linear response of dual subwoofers? You guys have been very helpful. I feel like I'm getting closer to the bottom of this rabbit hole.
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post #64 of 122 Old 08-30-2018, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Smith View Post
1. 2. & 3. does describe me. However, I do like to feel the bass.

The "more uniform output" is what I need to quantify, which I know will be different for every room. This probably deserves a separate post on the subwoofer forum section, but I think I need to get an idea of typically how differently the response is seat to seat on a single subs vs. dual subs. Let's say if my MLP is the two inner seats on the two love couches and bass response is 100% at those seats, on the outer seats would the response be 90%? 80%? On the side couch, would the response be 70/80% of the MLP?

If the response is only around 80% of the MLP, then that's probably negligible to me. Since this will be my first serious set up I doubt my ears are nitpicky enough to be able to notice a huge difference from seat to seat.

Now if the response is say 50% of the MLP, that would be much more obvious and having two subs would probably outweigh the benefit of having the towers blend over more nicely.

I made a little chart based off the data on HSU's website comparing 2 VTF 2.5's to a single VTF 3.5. I added 3db to the single VTF 2.5 to represent having two. Interestingly enough, the duals beat out the single below 16Hz, but start to fall behind as the frequencies climb.

As Pyxle said, and I think I would agree, I don't think I would ever max out the volume of 2 VTF 2.5's (which have lower output that a single 3.5). Therefore I ultimately need to answer, what is more perceivable?

The improved blending of towers vs. bookshelfs we've been discussing, or the improved linear response of dual subwoofers? You guys have been very helpful. I feel like I'm getting closer to the bottom of this rabbit hole.
In addition to posting your Qs on the subwoofer forum, I'd also email Hsu directly to ask...their CS is known to be very honest and forthcoming.
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #65 of 122 Old 08-31-2018, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm glad the towers vs. bookshelfs & single/dual subs debate got brought up during this thread. It's forced me to take a deeper dive in to what is actually happening in a room from physics perspective and what actually makes "good" audio. I've spent the past couple of nights reading several articles on standing waves, room modes, how the various speakers interact to create boosts/dips in a room, and essentially how sound moves from your speakers to your ear.

It would seem the "optimal" audio system would have the flattest response across multiple power levels with as many sound sources as possible to eliminate boosts/dips. (pipe dream, I know) All this to allow the eq to do as a little work as possible to introduce minimal interference. All of this would be an effort to reproduce the original sound the audio producers intended for us to hear. But I understand even this isn't necessarily "the best" as some people find boosts/dips at certain frequencies more pleasing than others!

Interestingly enough to me, and I'm sure no surprise to the experienced vets on the forum, I learned how the room itself and whats in it plays such an important part of the equation for having great audio. Particularly for how it effects boosts/dips in the room at all frequencies. (bass frequencies being more evident due to having higher energy)

It's no wonder how subjective everyone's opinions are regarding certain things due the # of variables involved in getting a good sound!

While I feel like I have a much better understanding of all things audio after looking at things at particle level, it does bring up several more questions and things I want to learn about.

Mainly I'd like to learn more about crossovers and how EQ's actually work, particularly for the crossover between the mains and subwoofer.

I'll make a separate thread as to not dirty up this one. Thanks again to everyone who added input to my original question.
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post #66 of 122 Old 08-31-2018, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Smith View Post
I'm glad the towers vs. bookshelfs & single/dual subs debate got brought up during this thread. It's forced me to take a deeper dive in to what is actually happening in a room from physics perspective and what actually makes "good" audio. I've spent the past couple of nights reading several articles on standing waves, room modes, how the various speakers interact to create boosts/dips in a room, and essentially how sound moves from your speakers to your ear.
Pick up Dr. Toole's book on Amazon; also google around a bit on Schroeder Frequency.

https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reprodu...dp_ob_title_bk
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post #67 of 122 Old 08-31-2018, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Smith View Post

Mainly I'd like to learn more about crossovers and how EQ's actually work, particularly for the crossover between the mains and subwoofer.

I'll make a separate thread as to not dirty up this one. Thanks again to everyone who added input to my original question.
Yeah, we're all "learning" and dipping into some of the other forum areas you will find very knowledgeable members who rarely if ever post in the "speaker" section on these topics.

Thus far the consensus seems to be that EQ below 250hz is the most important and that the advent of new self EQ subs from Elac, Martin Logan and others is a VERY GOOD THING.

I've owned a self EQ sub for almost 10 years.

Here is what the self EQ on my sub does.

The recommendation is to run sub EQ before AVR EQ and some suggest that the only EQ you need is sub level EQ but I do use both.

20hz =-11db
25hz =-10
32hz =-12
40hz =0
50hz =0
63hz =0
80hz =0
100hz =+1

Here's what the relatively basic Audyssey MultiEQ does on my 7 year old Denon AVR.

HZ F L F R C
63 1.5 2.0 1.5
125 3.5 3.0 1.5
250 4.5 3.5 1.5
500 0.0 0.5 0.0
1khz 0.0 0.0 1.5
2khz 1.0 1.0 2.0
4khz 0.0 1.0 0.5
6khz 0.5 1.0 0.5
16kz -0.5 -0.5 1.5

HZ S L S R
63 -3.0 -1.5
125 -1.0 -2.5
250 1.0 -2.5
500 -1.0 -2.0
1khz 1.0 1.0
2khz 0.5 2.0
4khz -3.0 -2.0
6khz -2.0 -1.0
16kz 3.0 5.0

As you can see the AVR EQ does VERY little to the front left and right tower speakers above 250hz as they are placed more or less "ideally" being at least 2 feet from any room boundary and toed in a bit to minimize side wall reflections.

The other speakers are not "ideally" placed as the horizontal center is under the TV on a shelf tilted up with only four corner posts interfereing, and, obviousy, the upper shelf interferes as the TV sits on that.

My rears hare hardly "ideally" placed either being at head height when standing so that nobody on the couch sits closer than 3 feet from the surrounds seated on the couch which by necessity is up against the wall.

So it would seem that "ideal" placement results in very little AVR EQ above 250hz while those less ideally placed get more EQ in all frequencies.
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post #68 of 122 Old 08-31-2018, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jjackkrash View Post
Pick up Dr. Toole's book on Amazon; also google around a bit on Schroeder Frequency.

https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reprodu...dp_ob_title_bk
Thanks, I may dive in to this.

After further thinking, I think I will likely pull the trigger on the T1's as they would only be about $300-$370 more than other options I am looking out. A 10% increase on my budget seems like a small price to pay to avoid the FOMO!

Regardless, I'm still interested in trying to better quantify the benefit of those towers. I'm hoping to get some good responses in the new thread I created https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...l#post56730668

I'll probably reach out to the AVR forum section as well as they may have some background knowledge on how the crossover & eq settings work.
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post #69 of 122 Old 09-01-2018, 11:16 AM
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Also, since you seem to be interested in the science, I highly recommend that you pick up Toole's Sound Reproduction book. It's an invaluable resource for anyone seriously interested in the science of audio. Toole himself posts here almost daily, so it's not like you are sending money to some wizard in a tower.

I happen to own one of those Hsu VTF-2mk5's so I can attest to their exceptional value.

If dual subs is your eventual plan then having that capability available in your AVR is a big plus for making EQ/calibration easier.

Here are some best practices:

1. Sub and center channel are of the utmost importance
2. 2 or 4 subs is a HUGE upgrade over a single sub
3. Anything beyond 5.1 channels is where diminishing returns kick in hard

So...Let's take each at a time:

1A. Subs: Get the absolute best/biggest sub you can and get two of them. Put them each in a corner. If getting 2 VTF 3.5/15H's down the road is impossible, then get the 2 VTF 2.5's. That's a no-brainer. If you think you can manage the additional VTF 3.5/15H in the future, get one now, then order the second one as soon as you can. Hsu is a great movie sub and I don't think you can find better for the price.

1B. Center: Here again your choices are easy. Find the best center channel you can, then match it with fronts and surrounds. It's that easy. If you can accommodate a vertical center, then the whole world of audio is open to you. Otherwise, if you need a horizontal center (like most), then get a three way center, hands down. Make sure the configuration is thus: Vertical tweeter/mid flanked by the biggest woofers you can fit/find. 6.5 inch woofers are ideal but 5.25 inch would suffice. I would NOT get any center with 4.5 inch woofers or less.

2. Again get two smaller subs now, or get 1 larger sub with the plan to add another at a future date. Put them in the corners of your room, if possible, for an extra 3db sensitivity gain per sub beyond 1. Do NOT get an odd number of subs (1, 3, 5 etc.) Stick with 2 or 4 subs (not many people can fit 4 subs, lol, but that is the ideal.)

3. Once you pick your favorite center, get the biggest fronts that match. I prefer bookshelves for the value and flexibility they provide, but if you need the volume, towers are fine. For surrounds, if you can match the fronts, go for it. Otherwise, smaller surrounds are fine since they mostly provide ambience. Put everything as close to ear level as you can, and enjoy!!!

So my advice for now: go center channel shopping and then ask for opinions. I'm not a center expert so I don't think I can give specifics. But one thing I do know, is that a 3 way center is of prime importance for a horizontal layout. Don't compromise here.

Best of luck!
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post #70 of 122 Old 09-04-2018, 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Thus far the consensus seems to be that EQ below 250hz is the most important and that the advent of new self EQ subs from Elac, Martin Logan and others is a VERY GOOD THING.
You can turn any sub into a self-EQ sub with a MiniDSP, can't you?

Audyssey SubEQ is nice for dual sub setups.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Smith View Post
After further thinking, I think I will likely pull the trigger on the T1's as they would only be about $300-$370 more than other options I am looking out. A 10% increase on my budget seems like a small price to pay to avoid the FOMO!
If I have convinced Brandon to buy towers my work here is done. :-)
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post #71 of 122 Old 09-04-2018, 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Normally, I am an enthusiastic proponent of both deliberate mismatching and Emotiva speakers. However, after looking at your photos of the room I would actually propose a radically different setup:

1. Hsu 3.1 package, $1639 shipped (HB1/HC1 + VTF-15H)
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/hybrid15mk2pkg.html

2. Surrounds: 2 x JBL B15, $74 shipped/pr
https://www.amazon.com/JBL-Bookshelf...70_&dpSrc=srch


All 5 speakers WALL-MOUNTED and tilted downwards towards the main listening position (see photo).

Or, if you want uniformity and go with HB-1s all the way around for 5 identical speakers, that would probably put you around $1900 for all 5 speakers including the VTF-15H.

My rationale is that your room is quite full of furniture already, making it hard to get ideal speaker PLACEMENT, which many people often overlook as one of the biggest factors on how your system will actually sound.

Also, the Hsu HB-1s are known to have a gentle treble roll-off that prevents any treble harshness (often associated with horn tweeters), which is worth considering in a room with wooden floors and wooden blinds---in other words, quite reflective. They are very easy to drive to high volumes with perfect clarity and composure, without requiring any muscular amp---if you go to the Hsu demo room, you'll see that they use a run-of-the-mill $300-400 Onkyo receiver without any external amps, compared to most showrooms where they've got megabuck separates powering the speakers. Their sound signature I found to be very pleasantly clear and dynamic, with full natural mids, but no shortage of top end dynamics either...the kind of speaker you could listen to all day at fairly high volumes and not get the dreaded "listening fatigue" effect afterwards.

The HB-1 is also a bit less bulky than the QA 3020i (despite having a 6.5" woofer vs the 5.25" one on the QA) so it'd be easier to wall-mount.

Here's a thorough review of it by a well-respected professional reviewer, Andrew Robinson:
https://hometheaterreview.com/hsu-re...aker-reviewed/

Sounds like a crazy good deal. Any idea on their performance vs Andrew Jones designed Pioneer speakers?
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post #72 of 122 Old 09-04-2018, 08:06 AM
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Any idea on their performance vs Andrew Jones designed Pioneer speakers?
Surely you jest! The HB-1s would stomp all over the AJs.
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post #73 of 122 Old 09-04-2018, 09:37 AM
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You can turn any sub into a self-EQ sub with a MiniDSP, can't you?
Yes, for $200 for a Umik + MiniDSP you can assuming you want to deal with that hassle.

I used it in my secondary room but I prefer the plug and play of the self eq on my sub in the main HT room.

I could never get REW to load onto my MiniDSP so I had to look at the REW chart and make manual EQ corrections using the parametric equalizer in the MiniDSP.

Kind of a pain in the ass but the results are worth it and now that it's done I don't need to screw with it anymore than goodness.

Elac sells a small 200 watt 10" self EQ sub that extends to 25hz according to Sound and Vision for $450 so I think that's the coming new wave.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #74 of 122 Old 09-04-2018, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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If I have convinced Brandon to buy towers my work here is done. :-)
It would seem you, and with the influence of several others, have accomplished this! I really want to say thanks again for all of those who have responded to my questions on the forums and private messages. This forum is really a great resource for information.

But yeah, I think I'm settling in on the factory refurbished Emotiva C2 & T1 towers for $961. I've been asking a lot of the members, and for the most part, these seem to be on the top of people's list for the price for HT.

I was also seriously considering the CCB-8's, but I think I'm going to pass on them due to the reports of being fatiguing when listening to music. It's rare when I listen to music, but when I do it's possible someone's ears are going to be 2-3 feet from the center, which be quite uncomfortable.

I'm going to go with a HSU VTF 3.5 for the sub $900, and a Denon x3400h to give dual sub capability in the future.

I haven't clicked buy yet, so feel free to try to change my mind if you can think of a better set up for the money. I think I've gotten to a good spot without to many compromises (except for the sheer size of the speakers, haha).
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post #75 of 122 Old 09-04-2018, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Just have to decide on the surrounds now.

Any thoughts on the Emotiva B-1's vs. E-1's? These will likely be wall mounted, with something like this: https://www.amazon.com/WALI-Universa...ker+wall+mount

I've really only got 2 spots:

1.) side walls next to the fire place and on the other side of the love seats. I would need to scoot the couches closer to the TV to be 90 degrees though.
2.) The more realistic spot is probably on the rear walls on either side of the love seats. May scoot the couches further back to help get at least the recommended 15 degrees from 90 to the couches.

The E1's are front ported, and I suppose I could plug the B-1's to avoid any obsessive bass. If there directly wall mounted to the side walls, E1's seem like the obvious choice. However, if I swivel mount them on the rear walls I think I may be better off with the bigger B-1's. Thoughts? They're piratically the same price.
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post #76 of 122 Old 09-04-2018, 03:14 PM
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Just have to decide on the surrounds now.

Any thoughts on the Emotiva B-1's vs. E-1's? These will likely be wall mounted, with something like this: https://www.amazon.com/WALI-Universa...ker+wall+mount

I've really only got 2 spots:

1.) side walls next to the fire place and on the other side of the love seats. I would need to scoot the couches closer to the TV to be 90 degrees though.
2.) The more realistic spot is probably on the rear walls on either side of the love seats. May scoot the couches further back to help get at least the recommended 15 degrees from 90 to the couches.

The E1's are front ported, and I suppose I could plug the B-1's to avoid any obsessive bass. If there directly wall mounted to the side walls, E1's seem like the obvious choice. However, if I swivel mount them on the rear walls I think I may be better off with the bigger B-1's. Thoughts? They're piratically the same price.
Those mounts would work well with the B1s I would think and they would keep the rear port a decent distance from the rear wall, especially if angled, and crossed over to a sub at 80hz you couldn't blow a match out placing it near the rear port at movie volumes anyway.

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post #77 of 122 Old 09-04-2018, 03:18 PM
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Ideally surrounds should be more to the sides than the rear, but practicality and WAF trumps all. Between the B1 and E1, a swivel would allow for the tweeter to be pointed at the MLP, which again is ideal. With an ~80Hz crossover, there won't be any output from the port, so you don't even need any foam port plugs.

EDIT: Ninja'd by @gajCA . So basically what he said.

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post #78 of 122 Old 09-04-2018, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
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That makes sense about the rear ports. Thanks guys.

Unfortunately my options are limited for the surrounds. Presently I have my rear surrounds on stands next to the love seats, and they seem fine being that they're so low output, but I'm afraid the output of the B-1's would be to much for sitting so close to someone.
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post #79 of 122 Old 09-04-2018, 03:35 PM
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If you have the ability to wall-mount, I would go that route considering your space is on the small side. Nothing wrong with stands except the extra clutter. Once level matched, it shouldn't matter, but again, ideally you want all your speakers the same distance apart (to the MLP) and I think mounting them would get you closer to that.

One point in the favor of the stand is that the tweeter would be at ear-level, but like you say, they would be pretty close to the person on either side of the sofa.
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post #80 of 122 Old 09-04-2018, 07:21 PM
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Unfortunately my options are limited for the surrounds. Presently I have my rear surrounds on stands next to the love seats, and they seem fine being that they're so low output, but I'm afraid the output of the B-1's would be to much for sitting so close to someone.
For such a close listening position to the surrounds you really need dipole speakers despite whatever Dolby says. Can you get the E2s and wall mount them? It will look better too.
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post #81 of 122 Old 09-04-2018, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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For such a close listening position to the surrounds you really need dipole speakers despite whatever Dolby says. Can you get the E2s and wall mount them? It will look better too.
My only option to wall mount them flat would be on the left wall (when facing tv) at the very edge, and then on the right side of the fire place above the mantel. But even then, I'd need to buy sometime of rotating mount to angle the speakers downwards.

I think my best bet is going to be getting flexible mounts on the rear walls, and angling them down towards ear level. I'm not sure there's any wall mounts that fit the E2. I would probably have to custom make something.

I'll probably stick to the B1's to save some money anyhow.

I am curious though, what do dipole speakers do differently? Why do you recommend them? Expand please.
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post #82 of 122 Old 09-04-2018, 08:02 PM
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Yeah, your placement is a challenge. You could get actual in-ceiling speakers with aimable tweeters and use them as the surrounds, or put in-walls at ear position that are less conspicuous.

Dipoles have multiple drivers that are wired deliberately out-of-phase, to create a diffuse soundfield that is hard to localize. Makes a big difference if you are sitting right on top of the speaker.
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post #83 of 122 Old 09-04-2018, 09:19 PM
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Dipoles have multiple drivers that are wired deliberately out-of-phase, to create a diffuse soundfield that is hard to localize.
That is exactly why Dolby does not recommend them for Atmos (which uses the placement of objects free'd up from the individual bed stems and that are at times supposed to be localized), as by design they do not provide consistent coverage or support localization in the dipole null. Although monopoles are now generally preferred, if you have to take the edge off the surrounds due to close speaker location, I'd use bipoles in an Atmos setup. For non-Atmos 5.1 applications dipoles might work fine, but here is the caveat from Dr. Toole (quoted by Audiohaulics several years ago):

"With the advent of immersive surround sound hitting the home theater marketplace the de-correlated sounds can be radiated from several loudspeakers rather than concentrated in a few. Each speaker then becomes a less localizable source. Dipoles become even less relevant and indeed counterproductive in most cases. A shift towards bipole, monopole, or line source type speakers would seem to be the more appropriate course for the bed (ear level) fixed surround channels."

https://www.audioholics.com/loudspea...pole-vs-bipole
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post #84 of 122 Old 09-05-2018, 02:24 AM
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That is exactly why Dolby does not recommend them for Atmos
Yeah, I use them for Atmos in some locations. The configurable ones like the E2 are nice because they can be either/or.

The Emotiva E2's have an "inverted bipole" mode as well where both tweeters are out of phase with the rest of the system, but in-phase with each other. I haven't really figured out why this would be useful to anybody...but it is possible.
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post #85 of 122 Old 09-05-2018, 08:27 AM
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My only option to wall mount them flat would be on the left wall (when facing tv) at the very edge, and then on the right side of the fire place above the mantel. But even then, I'd need to buy sometime of rotating mount to angle the speakers downwards.

I think my best bet is going to be getting flexible mounts on the rear walls, and angling them down towards ear level. I'm not sure there's any wall mounts that fit the E2. I would probably have to custom make something.

I'll probably stick to the B1's to save some money anyhow.

I am curious though, what do dipole speakers do differently? Why do you recommend them? Expand please.
Your rear wall placement idea will work just fine.

My rears are not in the ideal placement at all 7 feet up on flat shelves pointing to the center of the room as my couch is against the wall and it works just fine.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #86 of 122 Old 09-05-2018, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Just ordered the Emotiva T-1's, C2, and B-1's. Along with a HSU VTF-3 Mk5 & a Denon X3400h. I CAN'T WAIT!

Thanks again everyone!

Now I just need speaker wire, banana plugs, my rear mounts, and a subwoofer cable. Am I missing anything?
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post #87 of 122 Old 09-05-2018, 01:16 PM
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Just ordered the Emotiva T-1's, C2, and B-1's. Along with a HSU VTF-3 Mk5 & a Denon X3400h. I CAN'T WAIT!
Nice! Please do a detailed review, preferably w/pics once you get it all set up.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #88 of 122 Old 09-05-2018, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Nice! Please do a detailed review, preferably w/pics once you get it all set up.
Will do! If I have the time... I may also do a comparison of the T1's vs. B1's as front left & rights with the subwoofer integrated. That way I can answer the whole bookshelf vs. tower debate question for myself and see if that extra $300 was worth it! Haha. I'm sure I'll be delighted either way!
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post #89 of 122 Old 09-05-2018, 01:45 PM
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Will do! If I have the time... I may also do a comparison of the T1's vs. B1's as front left & rights with the subwoofer integrated. That way I can answer the whole bookshelf vs. tower debate question for myself and see if that extra $300 was worth it! Haha.
Well, that won't really be a fair fight since I suspect that Emotiva deliberately intended the B1 to be a "gateway drug" to the rest of its passive speaker lineup, which would explain why the B1 has an 8 ohm impedance spec while all its brothers are listed as 4 ohms.

However, if you keep the subwoofer on, with both B1 and T1 being on 80Hz crossover, and SPL limited to a maximum of say, 75db, I think it *might* be close.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #90 of 122 Old 09-05-2018, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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However, if you keep the subwoofer on, with both B1 and T1 being on 80Hz crossover, and SPL limited to a maximum of say, 75db, I think it *might* be close.
This is my plan for testing, and was my original question I was struggling with. I'm glad I spent the extra money though, and now I won't have to ever wonder "what if"...
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