Very little room, but want big sound. Can you help? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 30 Old 09-16-2018, 07:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Very little room, but want big sound. Can you help?

We are remodeling our basement, once completeI'll be setting up a home theater. This weekend into a roadblock, as far as my theater goes. The focal wall, has a walkthrough on both sides which makes it shorter than the others. It is 78" wide. We we're planning on a 75" screen which is approxamently 68" wide. The room is not deep, about 18 feet from front to back.

Im thinking im going to have to go with bookshelf speakers for the mains. Unless someone is aware of some VERY slim profile floorstanding speakers.

For now, I want to keep the speakers (5.1 for now) under $1000, If completly nessasary I may be able to go a little higher. The wife likes the Def Tech ProCinemo1000 set, so anything along this price point is do able. Klipsch is a little bright for me. So right now im looking for suggestions on bookshelf speakers to use for the mains. Or a quality set of LCRs would work as well.

They'll be powered by a Denon AVR-S920W.
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post #2 of 30 Old 09-16-2018, 08:24 AM
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I would use JBL LSR 305 powered monitors. If you find them for the right price, you could get a pair of 308's for front L/R. They also make a sub that goes with them.


You can get a surround preamp/processor instead of an AVR since power amps are built in the speakers. Maybe you can stretch your budget and get the newer Mk II series.


http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/r.../3-series-mkii
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post #3 of 30 Old 09-16-2018, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dogdad View Post
We are remodeling our basement, once completeI'll be setting up a home theater. This weekend into a roadblock, as far as my theater goes. The focal wall, has a walkthrough on both sides which makes it shorter than the others. It is 78" wide. We we're planning on a 75" screen which is approxamently 68" wide. The room is not deep, about 18 feet from front to back.

Im thinking im going to have to go with bookshelf speakers for the mains. Unless someone is aware of some VERY slim profile floorstanding speakers.

For now, I want to keep the speakers (5.1 for now) under $1000, If completly nessasary I may be able to go a little higher. The wife likes the Def Tech ProCinemo1000 set, so anything along this price point is do able. Klipsch is a little bright for me. So right now im looking for suggestions on bookshelf speakers to use for the mains. Or a quality set of LCRs would work as well.

They'll be powered by a Denon AVR-S920W.
Oh god, keep your wife away from those DT speakers! There's tons of far better options out there.

So the $1K is for all 5 speakers plus subwoofer, for 5 speakers only, or for the front 3 only?
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #4 of 30 Old 09-16-2018, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 3dogdad View Post
We are remodeling our basement, once completeI'll be setting up a home theater. This weekend into a roadblock, as far as my theater goes. The focal wall, has a walkthrough on both sides which makes it shorter than the others. It is 78" wide. We we're planning on a 75" screen which is approxamently 68" wide. The room is not deep, about 18 feet from front to back.

Im thinking im going to have to go with bookshelf speakers for the mains. Unless someone is aware of some VERY slim profile floorstanding speakers.

For now, I want to keep the speakers (5.1 for now) under $1000, If completly nessasary I may be able to go a little higher. The wife likes the Def Tech ProCinemo1000 set, so anything along this price point is do able. Klipsch is a little bright for me. So right now im looking for suggestions on bookshelf speakers to use for the mains. Or a quality set of LCRs would work as well.

They'll be powered by a Denon AVR-S920W.
Oh god, keep your wife away from those DT speakers! There's tons of far better options out there.

So the $1K is for all 5 speakers plus subwoofer, for 5 speakers only, or for the front 3 only?
Like to do 1k or the 5 speakers, if I can get the sub in there as well that's be great. If not, maybe another 300 tops for sub? I've heard the jbl arena and sony cores are great bang for the buck but I've got a little more than that set for speakers and feel like I have to spend it haha
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post #5 of 30 Old 09-16-2018, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dogdad View Post
We are remodeling our basement, once completeI'll be setting up a home theater. This weekend into a roadblock, as far as my theater goes. The focal wall, has a walkthrough on both sides which makes it shorter than the others. It is 78" wide. We we're planning on a 75" screen which is approxamently 68" wide. The room is not deep, about 18 feet from front to back.

Im thinking im going to have to go with bookshelf speakers for the mains. Unless someone is aware of some VERY slim profile floorstanding speakers.

For now, I want to keep the speakers (5.1 for now) under $1000, If completly nessasary I may be able to go a little higher. The wife likes the Def Tech ProCinemo1000 set, so anything along this price point is do able. Klipsch is a little bright for me. So right now im looking for suggestions on bookshelf speakers to use for the mains. Or a quality set of LCRs would work as well.

They'll be powered by a Denon AVR-S920W.
first be sure to have your contractor to put mounting blocks in the wall where your Front Left &*Right and Center speakers will be mounted, also run the speaker wires at the same time

second make sure the speakers you buy are designed to be mounted next to a wall,
not all speakers work well directly next to a wall.

Third choose speaker mounting hardware that can handle the weight of your speakers and can allow you to angle them down and left and right

the same also applies to your surrounds which generally want to be located above and behind your listen position

remember the distance measure between your front speakers is basically the same distance you will want to put your seating from your front wall, I would highly recommend you measure these distances and visually see this in your room, as you will have a whole lot of room left over.

For the sub I would run at least four wire runs as you do not know where the sub will ultimately sound the best. At least one would be in front of the listening position and the rest behind you will be glad for these options later on

My room is 9 ft wide and 15 feet long, my seating position is 7 feet from the front wall, and bothe movies and music sound great.
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post #6 of 30 Old 09-16-2018, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by 3dogdad View Post
Like to do 1k or the 5 speakers, if I can get the sub in there as well that's be great. If not, maybe another 300 tops for sub? I've heard the jbl arena and sony cores are great bang for the buck but I've got a little more than that set for speakers and feel like I have to spend it haha
Here are some options, it will depend on how much WAF you have to work with, and also whether you want to include the sub in that $1K or not.

Dual-woofer LCR speakers:
a. Ascend 340SE, $538/pr shipped
b. RBH R515 - $162 each shipped, these are highest-WAF and by far the best bang for the buck, costing the same as many single-woofer bookshelves
c. Chane A2.4 - roughly $600/pr shipped if in stock
d. Hsu HC-1, roughly $550/pr shipped

Single-woofer bookshelves around $300/pr:
Ascend 170SE, Emotiva B1, Hsu HB-1, JBL Studio 230, NHT SuperOnes

Surrounds: JBL Arena B15 (identical to Arena 120) from Amazon for $73/pr shipped --- since surrounds only do a lousy 10-15% of the output this is where I'd go cheap

In a 18' x (I'm guessing) 12' room, I would want to budget more like $500-600 for the sub (Monolith 10" THX or Hsu VTF-2), unless you seldom watch blockbuster action/thriller movies that have tons of LFE, in which case the $300 Emotiva BasX10 will do.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #7 of 30 Old 09-16-2018, 11:34 AM
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Im thinking im going to have to go with bookshelf speakers for the mains. Unless someone is aware of some VERY slim profile floorstanding speakers.

There are some very slim towers out there, but the problem is that they sound like slim towers... Canton makes some, pricey though. Recently I obtained some old Athena 100s in a CL deal (included in bundle) which are super slim, and they sound like a tweeter on a stick.

I wouldn't suggest those Def Techs. How large can you go before failing the WAF test? Any specific size limitation? If size is a big issue, I'd say give RSL CG3/23s a try over the Def Techs. And if looks matter more than size, then Qacoustics.
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post #8 of 30 Old 09-16-2018, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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She realizes anything cute and small isn't going to sound the greatest. If I do LCRs and mount them they will have to be about 5 inches wide on the left and rights. If they are bookshelves size isn't as much as a factor as long as they aren't 2 feet tall bookshelves I think well be good. The media cabinet is 18 inches deep so should be deep enough for about anything to sit on top of it.

I did see the rsl and was intrigued by them, seems like the biggest con to them is not being able to go super low.
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post #9 of 30 Old 09-16-2018, 02:37 PM
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Since you have 18 feet of depth to work with, consider a wall-to-wall acoustically transparent screen suspended from the ceiling 20 inches from the front wall, with PA speakers behind it. That is, if this won't interfere with your "walkthroughs."
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post #10 of 30 Old 09-16-2018, 02:43 PM
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I did see the rsl and was intrigued by them, seems like the biggest con to them is not being able to go super low.
They probably won't be able to even go medium low... expect you'd need a crossover around 100ish on them?

With free returns, an option if you absolutely have to go small. But if you can go with regular-size bookshelves, I think you'd like them better.
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post #11 of 30 Old 09-16-2018, 04:12 PM
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Look at Boston -- on closeout pricing -- Boston makes good stuff

A25 Bookshelf -- 3 each for the front L/C/R
https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ck-each/1.html

CS25 for the surrounds -- also sold each
https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ck-each/1.html

That leaves you room for a good sub like the HSU Vtf-2
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk5.html

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post #12 of 30 Old 09-16-2018, 04:29 PM
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Since the OP wants to go loud, then I highly recommend (3) of the Chane A2.4's across the front which can be had for ~$780ish. They can play absurdly loud while maintaining their composure. Not to mention, (3) of the A2.4's will form an extremely cohesive front-stage that is very neutral and non-fatiguing. Great for HT and even better for music. For the rears, I would just use something like the Sony Core bookshelves which would free up enough money for a decent sub. The rears albeit 5.1 only add ambiance. No real need for something like the Chane A1.4's inmho. For the sub, I would look at the RSL 10" or the Hsu 10". Both of which, are very capable subs. This should all fit into the OP's specified budget.

https://www.chanemusiccinema.com/A2.4


*Notice that the Chane A2.4's are in-stock and ready to be shipped!*


https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-co...?skuId=5721014


Note to the OP: The Sony Cores typically go on a super sale @BB close to and on Black Friday*** Might be worth the wait to save some significant money. Just saying............


http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-1mk3.html


https://rslspeakers.com/speedwoofer10s/



Cheers,

Phil

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post #13 of 30 Old 09-16-2018, 04:39 PM
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IF you currently only have $1000 to spend and want BIG SOUND (i.e. an EFFECTIVE 12-in or LARGER Sub-Woofer), then concentrate on getting the SW and L/R Speakers (and maybe Ctr as well)....and save up for Surround Speakers (perhaps incl. ATMOS) in the future....which means you would be able to afford L/R speakers that are TWICE as expensive vs spreading your limited funds across MANY cheap speakers.
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post #14 of 30 Old 09-16-2018, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Here are some options, it will depend on how much WAF you have to work with, and also whether you want to include the sub in that $1K or not.

Dual-woofer LCR speakers:
a. Ascend 340SE, $538/pr shipped
b. RBH R515 - $162 each shipped, these are highest-WAF and by far the best bang for the buck, costing the same as many single-woofer bookshelves
c. Chane A2.4 - roughly $600/pr shipped if in stock
d. Hsu HC-1, roughly $550/pr shipped

Single-woofer bookshelves around $300/pr:
Ascend 170SE, Emotiva B1, Hsu HB-1, JBL Studio 230, NHT SuperOnes

Surrounds: JBL Arena B15 (identical to Arena 120) from Amazon for $73/pr shipped --- since surrounds only do a lousy 10-15% of the output this is where I'd go cheap

In a 18' x (I'm guessing) 12' room, I would want to budget more like $500-600 for the sub (Monolith 10" THX or Hsu VTF-2), unless you seldom watch blockbuster action/thriller movies that have tons of LFE, in which case the $300 Emotiva BasX10 will do.
With his avr of choice and the fact he wants big sound, I'd avoid the rbh 515 as they are a 6 ohm speaker and not the easiest thing to drive to big loud volumes. The Ascend 170SE is likely the best option from that list given its quality and 91dB sensitivity.

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post #15 of 30 Old 09-16-2018, 06:24 PM
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With his avr of choice and the fact he wants big sound, I'd avoid the rbh 515 as they are a 6 ohm speaker and not the easiest thing to drive to big loud volumes. The Ascend 170SE is likely the best option from that list given its quality and 91dB sensitivity.
Good point, although the 515s are still far better than the Def Techs he mentioned in the OP, I would expect.

However, given his recent statement that "2 ft tall bookshelves" are out of the question, you're correct that the 170SE would probably be the best bet.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #16 of 30 Old 09-16-2018, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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The Chane A2.4 look pretty nice. And seem to have great reviews. They will definitely be on the list. I'll have to see if I can find some to listen to.
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post #17 of 30 Old 09-16-2018, 08:10 PM
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The Chane A2.4 look pretty nice. And seem to have great reviews. They will definitely be on the list. I'll have to see if I can find some to listen to.
Chane are internet direct so not likely to find a store that will have them. That said, they are very neutral so there is a low risk of you not liking them. I've yet to hear one person complain about performance or sound quality and not aware of anyone ever returning them.

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post #18 of 30 Old 09-16-2018, 08:57 PM
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The Chane A2.4 look pretty nice. And seem to have great reviews. They will definitely be on the list. I'll have to see if I can find some to listen to.
Wait, I thought you said you were trying to avoid "2 foot tall bookshelves?"

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #19 of 30 Old 09-16-2018, 09:07 PM - Thread Starter
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The Chane A2.4 look pretty nice. And seem to have great reviews. They will definitely be on the list. I'll have to see if I can find some to listen to.
Wait, I thought you said you were trying to avoid "2 foot tall bookshelves?"

19.7" haha... it is a little close to to big. But if the sound is right I think I can handle it. I do think that they would be about as big as I could get away with.
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post #20 of 30 Old 09-16-2018, 09:17 PM
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19.7" haha... it is a little close to to big. But if the sound is right I think I can handle it. I do think that they would be about as big as I could get away with.
lol, ok...I also believe in always pushing the envelope when it comes to the missus.

The Chanes would be a solid bet. And who knows, you might be ok without a center...I think @BufordTJustice uses them as his fronts with no center.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #21 of 30 Old 09-17-2018, 05:09 AM
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19.7" haha... it is a little close to to big. But if the sound is right I think I can handle it. I do think that they would be about as big as I could get away with.
If the Chane A2.4's are too big, then go with the A1.4's and an A2.4 center. That is a very potent combination as well. But, you want to go loud so if possible opt for (3) A2.4's across the front. BTW, the A1.4's and/or A2.4's are true 8 ohm speakers. That means that they will be very easy to drive into absurd levels with a decent AVR. I was powering mine w/a Denon AVR-X3000 and it got extremely loud in my room of 1,440 ft.^3. My MLP was about 8' from my front-stage. Had my A2.4 mains spread about 7.5' apart. The sound-stage was very wide and deep, as well as, the most cohesive that I have ever owned. They really were that good. Best wishes!


Cheers,

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post #22 of 30 Old 09-17-2018, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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19.7" haha... it is a little close to to big. But if the sound is right I think I can handle it. I do think that they would be about as big as I could get away with.
If the Chane A2.4's are too big, then go with the A1.4's and an A2.4 center. That is a very potent combination as well. But, you want to go loud so if possible opt for (3) A2.4's across the front. BTW, the A1.4's and/or A2.4's are true 8 ohm speakers. That means that they will be very easy to drive into absurd levels with a decent AVR. I was powering mine w/a Denon AVR-X3000 and it got extremely loud in my room of 1,440 ft.^3. My MLP was about 8' from my front-stage. Had my A2.4 mains spread about 7.5' apart. The sound-stage was very wide and deep, as well as, the most cohesive that I have ever owned. They really were that good. Best wishes!


Cheers,

Phil
Good to hear! I'm really liking the stuff I've heard on these. What sub were you running?

Also do you have them walk mounted?or sat on a media cabinet? Or speaker stands?

Last edited by 3dogdad; 09-17-2018 at 08:38 AM.
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post #23 of 30 Old 09-17-2018, 10:50 AM
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Good to hear! I'm really liking the stuff I've heard on these. What sub were you running?

Also do you have them walk mounted?or sat on a media cabinet? Or speaker stands?
I had (2) PSA 15" S1500 sealed subs. It rocked the house my friend. I do not recommend wall mounting the A2.4's as they weigh nearly 30-lbs. each! I had mine on 24" stands. When using the A2.4's vertically you will need to rotate the planar tweeters 90 degrees. It is very easy to do. The A1.4's can be wall mounted if need be. But, I would put them on stands as well if I were you. The Chanes are very flat and neutral and will not fatigue you. They are also great with HT and can get loud w/o breaking a sweat. Many speakers can't do that. Even those much more expensive. BTW, I would not spend a lot on rears as they only add ambiance. The Sony Cores would work very well in that regard.


Cheers,

Phil
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post #24 of 30 Old 09-17-2018, 11:03 AM
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The Chanes are great for the price, neutral and you won't be wanting for spl.

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post #25 of 30 Old 09-17-2018, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by audiofreak38 View Post
I had (2) PSA 15" S1500 sealed subs. It rocked the house my friend. I do not recommend wall mounting the A2.4's as they weigh nearly 30-lbs. each! I had mine on 24" stands. When using the A2.4's vertically you will need to rotate the planar tweeters 90 degrees. It is very easy to do. The A1.4's can be wall mounted if need be. But, I would put them on stands as well if I were you. The Chanes are very flat and neutral and will not fatigue you. They are also great with HT and can get loud w/o breaking a sweat. Many speakers can't do that. Even those much more expensive. BTW, I would not spend a lot on rears as they only add ambiance. The Sony Cores would work very well in that regard.


Cheers,

Phil


Unscrew and rotate the tweeter? I didnt see that mentioned on their site. I guess that makes sense if it has a 80x40 degree projection.
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post #26 of 30 Old 09-17-2018, 09:14 PM - Thread Starter
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So I'm really liking the idea of the Chanes, but using them from LCRs and the (possible) sony cores for rears is close to the top of my budget for the speakers. With these, what would be a good sub?

I like the idea of the BIC PL200 but dont know which reviews to trust some are blown away by it and others are just, ehhh
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post #27 of 30 Old 09-17-2018, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 3dogdad View Post
So I'm really liking the idea of the Chanes, but using them from LCRs and the (possible) sony cores for rears is close to the top of my budget for the speakers. With these, what would be a good sub?

I like the idea of the BIC PL200 but dont know which reviews to trust some are blown away by it and others are just, ehhh
I would consider less expensive speakers if it will allow you to go with a Monolith 10" or (better) a Hsu VTF-2. The PL200 isn't a great sub...for its price, you'd be better off with the Emotiva BasX10. But your room has fixed openings, making it actually a BIGGER space as far as the sub is concerned...hence a stronger sub would make a big difference.

For example, JBL Studio 230 + 235C, $550 shipped here, and with free return shipping:
https://www.jbl.com/loudspeakers/
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post #28 of 30 Old 09-18-2018, 03:56 AM
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Unscrew and rotate the tweeter? I didnt see that mentioned on their site. I guess that makes sense if it has a 80x40 degree projection.
Yes, just remove the (4) small screws and rotate the planar tweeter 90 degrees. Then, put the (4) screws back in snugly. Be careful not to over-tighten. It is very easy to do. Even I was able to do it and I burn water my friend. It is that easy.


Cheers,

Phil

Last edited by audiofreak38; 09-18-2018 at 04:07 AM.
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post #29 of 30 Old 09-18-2018, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by 3dogdad View Post
So I'm really liking the idea of the Chanes, but using them from LCRs and the (possible) sony cores for rears is close to the top of my budget for the speakers. With these, what would be a good sub?

I like the idea of the BIC PL200 but dont know which reviews to trust some are blown away by it and others are just, ehhh

Instead of the A2.4's across the front why not go with the A1.4's as your fronts and the A2.4 as a center? Then, you could opt for a better sub as @zorba mentions the Monolith 10" or the 12" Hsu VTF-2 MK5. That would make for a very nice setup as well giving you the SPL you so crave. There is no doubt that (3) A2.4's across the front would have more dynamic capability, but the A1.4's w/a A2.4 center would also rock very well. Especially, with a better sub that has already been mentioned to you. Hence, the Chanes just punch way out of their respective price class. Jon Lane has done a tremendous job with them.


Cheers,

Phil

Last edited by audiofreak38; 09-18-2018 at 04:28 AM.
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post #30 of 30 Old 09-18-2018, 05:19 PM
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I would also check out Dali Spektor. You could get the 2’s and Vokal...https://www.whathifi.com/dali/spektor-2/review

A bookshelf setup of those or the Zensor 1’s with Vokal plus a Monolith 10 or BasX sub would fill the room.

Main 7.1 HT: Dali Zensor (7s, Vokal, and 1s), Emotiva E2s, HSU ULS-15 MK2, Emotiva BasX preamp/amps (MC-700, A-300, A-500)
Kid’s 5.1 HT: Dali Oberon (5s, Vokal), RSL C34Es, HSU VTF-2 MK5, Denon X2400H
7-Zone CCA/Spotify WHA: Paradigm (E-80Rs x6, P-80SM), Def Tech AW6500s, Polk MC-80, Emotiva BasX amps (A-700, A-500), FiiO D3 DACs
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