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Orta 09-22-2018 12:12 PM

6 Channel Thoughts and Recommendations, ~$2000 budget.
 
Looking to get 2 towers and 4 bookshelves, but am also open to 6 bookshelves if they are sufficiently capable. Pairing with an MFW15v3 and/or Outlaw LFM-1 Sub. Room is ~16 x 14 x 8. Use case is 80% Games and Movies, 20% Music. Have been looking at:

Revel Concerto2
Focal Chorus 7XX line
Elac Unifi and/or Debut 2.0
Emotiva Airmotive
Chane A-series
Q-acoustics 30XXi's

Obviously some of these are going to be a full $2000 while others are barely over $1000 (possibly well under with Black Friday and Holiday sales approaching). Will the performance/SQ gains justify a more than double price premium? Open to buying anywhere, online or call-in. Any other makes/models I should be considering? Thanks for any and all thoughts, impressions, and opinions.

driedmango 09-22-2018 01:32 PM

Hmm, definitely keep your eye on sales. Have you considered Polk LSIM line? On Adorama they get discounted by 70% like every other month. You can get a 5 channel setup for like $1500 with towers with some of those sales.

gajCA 09-22-2018 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orta (Post 56848850)
Looking to get 2 towers and 4 bookshelves, but am also open to 6 bookshelves if they are sufficiently capable. Pairing with an MFW15v3 and/or Outlaw LFM-1 Sub. Room is ~16 x 14 x 8. Use case is 80% Games and Movies, 20% Music. Have been looking at:

Revel Concerto2
Focal Chorus 7XX line
Elac Unifi and/or Debut 2.0
Emotiva Airmotive
Chane A-series
Q-acoustics 30XXi's

Obviously some of these are going to be a full $2000 while others are barely over $1000 (possibly well under with Black Friday and Holiday sales approaching). Will the performance/SQ gains justify a more than double price premium? Open to buying anywhere, online or call-in. Any other makes/models I should be considering? Thanks for any and all thoughts, impressions, and opinions.

So, no center channel?

Of the speakers listed the Elac UniFis are the only ones that are "hard to drive" according to AVS owners.

The Revel and Focals are said to be in another league in terms of sound to the others.

What you might want to do is get the two with the most rabid followings here on AVS at completely different price points.

A Chane vs Revel shootout would be hugely interesting to many and best of all the Revels, if they lose, are only $10/box to return.

The Revel fans might be the most rabid here on AVS as their position is basically, "if it ain't Revel, it ain't squat!" :p

I don't have either Chane or Revel and on your list have only heard Q Acoustics albeit the Concept 20s.

The Concept 20s were excellent and the new 3020is are said to be darned close.

Orta 09-22-2018 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gajCA (Post 56849146)
So, no center channel?

Of the speakers listed the Elac UniFis are the only ones that are "hard to drive" according to AVS owners.

The Revel and Focals are said to be in another league in terms of sound to the others.

What you might want to do is get the two with the most rabid followings here on AVS at completely different price points.

A Chane vs Revel shootout would be hugely interesting to many and best of all the Revels, if they lose, are only $10/box to return.

The Revel fans might be the most rabid here on AVS as their position is basically, "if it ain't Revel, it ain't squat!" :p

I don't have either Chane or Revel and on your list have only heard Q Acoustics albeit the Concept 20s.

The Concept 20s were excellent and the new 3020is are said to be darned close.


Are you aware of anyone having done a head to head with the Revels and Focals?


Quote:

Originally Posted by driedmango (Post 56849136)
Hmm, definitely keep your eye on sales. Have you considered Polk LSIM line? On Adorama they get discounted by 70% like every other month. You can get a 5 channel setup for like $1500 with towers with some of those sales.


Thanks for the heads up, I will make note of them. Yes I know a lot of these frequently go upwards of 50%+ off either through direct sales or dealer haggling, I have no intention of paying anywhere near MSRP.

driedmango 09-22-2018 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gajCA (Post 56849146)
So, no center channel?

The Revel fans might be the most rabid here on AVS as their position is basically, "if it ain't Revel, it ain't squat!" :p

I think Dynaudio fans are actually more rabid here. A lot of the pro-Revel posts are made by people that are directly associated with Revel, so it's more like direct schilling from the manufacturer lol.

Zorba922 09-22-2018 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by driedmango (Post 56849278)
A lot of the pro-Revel posts are made by people that are directly associated with Revel, so it's more like direct schilling from the manufacturer lol.

This has actually been a persistent suspicion of mine, since noticing that the Revel advocates are usually spouting "why, nothing compares to Revel with its gazillion dollars of R&D that went into them" lines and never recommend any other brand of speakers. :rolleyes:

There are probably more shills on the interwebs than STDs in a 3rd-world brothel. :D

Zorba922 09-22-2018 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orta (Post 56848850)
80% Games and Movies, 20% Music.

Obviously some of these are going to be a full $2000 while others are barely over $1000 (possibly well under with Black Friday and Holiday sales approaching). Will the performance/SQ gains justify a more than double price premium?

No it will not, IMO.

Emotivas or Chanes, and I'd also include the Ascend 170SE and/or 340SE.

Orta 09-22-2018 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by driedmango (Post 56849278)
I think Dynaudio fans are actually more rabid here. A lot of the pro-Revel posts are made by people that are directly associated with Revel, so it's more like direct schilling from the manufacturer lol.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorba922 (Post 56849888)
This has actually been a persistent suspicion of mine, since noticing that the Revel advocates are usually spouting "why, nothing compares to Revel with its gazillion dollars of R&D that went into them" lines and never recommend any other brand of speakers. :rolleyes:

There are probably more shills on the interwebs than STDs in a 3rd-world brothel. :D


You'll find no disagreement from me, the Revel thread seems to have a very strong dealer presence, no doubt the other 80% of the iceberg is hiding under the water not so open about their affiliation. That said the independent and professional review outlets seem pretty unanimous that they're a high quality product.

RayGuy 09-22-2018 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by driedmango (Post 56849278)
I think Dynaudio fans are actually more rabid here. A lot of the pro-Revel posts are made by people that are directly associated with Revel, so it's more like direct schilling from the manufacturer lol.

Not rabid, but Dynaudio makes a fine speaker. If the budget will allow, add this to the mix:

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_345M10...ack-Satin.html

Find a local dealer and have a listen ..

driedmango 09-22-2018 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayGuy (Post 56850464)
Not rabid, but Dynaudio makes a fine speaker. If the budget will allow, add this to the mix:

Dynaudio-Emit-M10 link

Find a local dealer and have a listen ..

Haha, yeah I know they make good speakers, I have a Esotar2 system in my car, but for home theater I find them too mellow--they are good in the nearfield (like in a car setup) but they start sounding too rolled as you move off-axis and further back due to the 1st order crossovers.

powerlifter405 09-22-2018 08:51 PM

Chane has some group buy and close outs. There were some last model A series on the way out, and the newest version inbound as I recall. He also has a his L-series that should be released soon. If it was me and I wanted it now, I'd email or call Jon to see if he had a bundle 5ch or 7ch option. I have the original Arx/A1 and in retrospect I should have held out for the A2's for the extra speaker area. If I wasn't upgrading to his next offering I would have already ordered 2.4's for the rears and surrounds but the A1's do well but in 40x20 I want the extra output the A2 provides.

l0nestar8 09-22-2018 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by driedmango (Post 56850484)
Haha, yeah I know they make good speakers, I have a Esotar2 system in my car, but for home theater I find them too mellow--they are good in the nearfield (like in a car setup) but they start sounding too rolled as you move off-axis and further back due to the 1st order crossovers.

Crossovers don't affect the high treble rolloff. Also, if anything, low-order crossovers increase dispersion around the crossover point. And finally, only the high-end stuff uses true 1st order electrical (2nd order acoustic or higher) while the Emits/Excites use mostly 2nd order electrical which when combined with the natural 1st/2nd order rolloff of the drivers sums to a typical 3rd/4th order acoustic crossover, which is what really matters in the end.

The purpose of higher order acoustic crossovers is to decrease distortion thereby increasing sensitivity/power handling (very good things in general, of course, especially for HT.)

Meanwhile, the purpose of lower order acoustic crossovers is to reduce group delay and maintain phase coherence and timing (thought to be more important for music.) This is akin to the endless sealed vs ported sub for movies/music debate or the sealed vs ported speaker when blending with a sub debate. In reality, all passive crossovers are a compromise of all the above.

But to your point, I do agree that soft-dome tweeters don't always satisfy people for HT but do very well near-field and/or with music.

Orta 09-22-2018 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerlifter405 (Post 56850658)
Chane has some group buy and close outs. There were some last model A series on the way out, and the newest version inbound as I recall. He also has a his L-series that should be released soon. If it was me and I wanted it now, I'd email or call Jon to see if he had a bundle 5ch or 7ch option. I have the original Arx/A1 and in retrospect I should have held out for the A2's for the extra speaker area. If I wasn't upgrading to his next offering I would have already ordered 2.4's for the rears and surrounds but the A1's do well but in 40x20 I want the extra output the A2 provides.


The A models currently listed are being replaced soon? Not seeing any close outs or sale prices for them on the site. What is the L series set to offer, and is there any ETA on both new model lines?

jjackkrash 09-22-2018 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orta (Post 56850428)
You'll find no disagreement from me, the Revel thread seems to have a very strong dealer presence, no doubt the other 80% of the iceberg is hiding under the water not so open about their affiliation. That said the independent and professional review outlets seem pretty unanimous that they're a high quality product.

There's a few dealers in the Revel thread. But that doesn't change the fact that Harmon has probably the most advanced speaker testing facility and testing protocol on the planet. Its not like Revel is churning out a bunch of slop. Personally, though, for the money, I would gravitate more toward the JBL Pro Cinema lines for performance per dollar from Harmon. The Revel speakers, while excellent, are usually pretty pricey and their synthesis line requires, or at least encourages, using their proprietary dsp and amps, which also drives up the price.

Jon Lane 09-23-2018 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerlifter405 (Post 56850658)
Chane has some group buy and close outs. There were some last model A series on the way out, and the newest version inbound as I recall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orta (Post 56850906)
The A models currently listed are being replaced soon? Not seeing any close outs or sale prices for them on the site.

The .4 models are here and are most the recent, and all previous rx-c models are gone. There are no plans to replace the .4s.

***

OP, I wish you a lot of success!

mpk1970 09-23-2018 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orta (Post 56848850)
Looking to get 2 towers and 4 bookshelves, but am also open to 6 bookshelves if they are sufficiently capable. Pairing with an MFW15v3 and/or Outlaw LFM-1 Sub. Room is ~16 x 14 x 8. Use case is 80% Games and Movies, 20% Music. Have been looking at:

Revel Concerto2
Focal Chorus 7XX line
Elac Unifi and/or Debut 2.0
Emotiva Airmotive
Chane A-series
Q-acoustics 30XXi's

Obviously some of these are going to be a full $2000 while others are barely over $1000 (possibly well under with Black Friday and Holiday sales approaching). Will the performance/SQ gains justify a more than double price premium? Open to buying anywhere, online or call-in. Any other makes/models I should be considering? Thanks for any and all thoughts, impressions, and opinions.

With that size room, you might be "over speakering" things
Getting a pic of your room so we can see what's going on may help

You might just need a nice LRC with some smaller surrounds--

If that's the case
I would recommend

Emotiva T2 Towers/C2 Center/Pair B1 Surrounds
OR
Chane A5.4 Towers/A2.4 center/Pair A1.4s Surrounds

These would be the most value, economical, best sounds tower/bookshelf combo you can buy for the one I can think of off the top of my head.
Either you choose would be one heckuva system

Molon_Labe 09-23-2018 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjackkrash (Post 56850954)
There's a few dealers in the Revel thread. But that doesn't change the fact that Harmon has probably the most advanced speaker testing facility and testing protocol on the planet. Its not like Revel is churning out a bunch of slop. Personally, though, for the money, I would gravitate more toward the JBL Pro Cinema lines for performance per dollar from Harmon. The Revel speakers, while excellent, are usually pretty pricey and their synthesis line requires, or at least encourages, using their proprietary dsp and amps, which also drives up the price.


The JBL Studio 5 series is part of the Synthesis line, designed by Greg Timbers, and are a very solid speaker, especially at the sale prices offered frequently on jbl.com I really like them for their price point. But you know I also am a big fan of JBL pro.

jjackkrash 09-23-2018 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon_Labe (Post 56851678)
The JBL Studio 5 series is part of the Synthesis line, designed by Greg Timbers, and are a very solid speaker, especially at the sale prices offered frequently on jbl.com I really like them for their price point. But you know I also am a big fan of JBL pro.

I forgot the Studio's were Synthesis. :o Yes, solid bargain for sure.

Molon_Labe 09-23-2018 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjackkrash (Post 56851864)
I forgot the Studio's were Synthesis. :o Yes, solid bargain for sure.


It is never spoken of and something I found by accident. The dealers will definitely not mention it because they are so cheap on sale. There are much better speakers out there no doubt, but for the $350 (Studio 580) and $500 (Studio 590) shipped prices they are put on sale for there isn't much, if anything, that will best them in that price range. Their pedigree and designer speaks volumes. I really enjoy them as an overall package - actually much more that I thought I would after parting with my pro cinema gear. I have yet to hear the Revels, but I am sure they are amazing. They are just too fine of a wine for my beer can budget. :p

jjackkrash 09-23-2018 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon_Labe (Post 56851908)
It is never spoken of and something I found by accident. The dealers will definitely not mention it because they are so cheap on sale.

Like the 4722n that could not possibly work in a home environment. :)

gajCA 09-23-2018 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orta (Post 56849222)
Are you aware of anyone having done a head to head with the Revels and Focals?

No, but the Focal owners seem an amiable bunch willing to conceded there are many great choices out there while the Revel crowd most certainly does not.

Another VERY rabid group of owners on AVS are owners of Tekton speakers.

https://www.tektondesign.com/

They say once you hear them it's like heroine; you simply have to have more. :p

Have I heard them?

No.

Am I interested in them?

Not in the least but mind you I'm a "once I'm happy I don't find excuses to upgrade" kind of guy.

I wouldn't recommend my speakers, (Martin Logan or Usher), because the former are too expensive at full MSRP and the latter are not available from an "easy return" retailer and are impossible to audition in a showroom.

I'd still test the Revels against either the Chanes or Emotivas in your own home and see which ones blow you away.

$10/box returns at Crutchfield actually means YOU could do the Focal vs Revel test you seem to want...as long as you buy bookshelves.

Floor standers are still a bargain to return at $75/pair and they do give a full 60 day return window.

Molon_Labe 09-23-2018 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gajCA (Post 56852096)
Not in the least but mind you I'm a "once I'm happy I don't find excuses to upgrade" kind of guy

How dare you......this is AVS :p

gajCA 09-23-2018 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by driedmango (Post 56849278)
I think Dynaudio fans are actually more rabid here. A lot of the pro-Revel posts are made by people that are directly associated with Revel, so it's more like direct schilling from the manufacturer lol.

No, I'd lump them in with Focal fans; they really love their "excellent by all accounts" speakers but don't try and knock anyone over the head with their "clear superiority to anything out there."

One thing going for Focal, and Canton for that matter, all in the same stratosphere as Revel/Dynaudio/B&W etc. is that there older models are available at STEEP discount at Accessories4less.

Mind you their return policy is hardly friendly so anyone unfamiliar with the brands should likely show caution.

gajCA 09-23-2018 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon_Labe (Post 56852132)
How dare you......this is AVS :p

Well, I did come darn close to having to replace both my systems last year as the Santa Rosa fires almost got to my house.

Went 40 miles in 3 hours dead aimed for us and turned just 2 miles from here.

Had THAT happened I'd likely have gone for Salk speakers with RAAL in the main room with a Rhythmik sealed sub(s) and in the secondary room Philharmonic Audio BMRs with dual Rhythmiks though I wish my home was big enough for some old school Klipsch Heritage speakers as they would remind me of my Dad, (he had Voice Of The Theaters back in the day).

My friends who DID lose their house want me to choose their system as when they stayed with us we watched some movies and their response was :eek:.

For their small space no question it'll be Q Acoustics plus Rhythmik sealed.

I'll have them listen to my friend's Concept 20s in their space before hand just to make sure.

gajCA 09-23-2018 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orta (Post 56850906)
The A models currently listed are being replaced soon? Not seeing any close outs or sale prices for them on the site. What is the L series set to offer, and is there any ETA on both new model lines?

I'm still confused by the six channels you are looking for.

Are you choosing to run without a center channel?

Molon_Labe 09-23-2018 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gajCA (Post 56852204)
Well, I did come darn close to having to replace both my systems last year as the Santa Rosa fires almost got to my house.

Went 40 miles in 3 hours dead aimed for us and turned just 2 miles from here.

Had THAT happened I'd likely have gone for Salk speakers with RAAL in the main room with a Rhythmik sealed sub(s) and in the secondary room Philharmonic Audio BMRs with dual Rhythmiks though I wish my home was big enough for some old school Klipsch Heritage speakers as they would remind me of my Dad, (he had Voice Of The Theaters back in the day).

My friends who DID lose their house want me to choose their system as when they stayed with us we watched some movies and their response was :eek:.

For their small space no question it'll be Q Acoustics plus Rhythmik sealed.

I'll have them listen to my friend's Concept 20s in their space before hand just to make sure.

Tragic what those fires are doing to people. Sorry to hear about your friends, but praises your home was spared.

gajCA 09-23-2018 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon_Labe (Post 56852260)
Tragic what those fires are doing to people. Sorry to hear about your friends, but praises your home was spared.

I like your signature; it's spot on! :p

powerlifter405 09-23-2018 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orta (Post 56850906)
The A models currently listed are being replaced soon? Not seeing any close outs or sale prices for them on the site. What is the L series set to offer, and is there any ETA on both new model lines?

OP, see the quote by Jon Lane.
Get the A5 for your towers, the A2 for the center and rears. You said 6ch so not sure of your layout but either way, they have held their own in various shoot-outs w/ speakers in 2-3x's their price.

also you asked about the L7, https://www.chanemusiccinema.com/for...hane-L7-thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Lane (Post 56851608)
The .4 models are here and are most the recent, and all previous rx-c models are gone. There are no plans to replace the .4s.

***

OP, I wish you a lot of success!

Howdy Jon. Thanks for clarifying, I was recalling the thread from earlier this summer about the newest inbound version. If I mis-read or mispoke then my bad, sorry.

Jon Lane 09-23-2018 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerlifter405 (Post 56853390)
Howdy Jon. Thanks for clarifying, I was recalling the thread from earlier this summer about the newest inbound version. If I mis-read or mispoke then my bad, sorry.

Please, no apologies; I'm happy to chip in.

***

Orta, pls let me know offline if I can assist. Naturally things out in the wild can sometimes use a little clarification...

Orta 09-23-2018 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gajCA (Post 56852212)
I'm still confused by the six channels you are looking for.

Are you choosing to run without a center channel?


Yes, phantom center. Placement of full size centers is problematic and though I use both configurations, I am bothered by the dialog seeming to originate from overhead or below the display. With most towers and the right height TV stand, you can have your eyes, ears, and the tweeters very near the mid point of the screen and the phantom image is very convincing at producing dialog from the display.


Quote:

Originally Posted by mpk1970 (Post 56851642)
With that size room, you might be "over speakering" things
Getting a pic of your room so we can see what's going on may help

You might just need a nice LRC with some smaller surrounds--

If that's the case
I would recommend

Emotiva T2 Towers/C2 Center/Pair B1 Surrounds
OR
Chane A5.4 Towers/A2.4 center/Pair A1.4s Surrounds

These would be the most value, economical, best sounds tower/bookshelf combo you can buy for the one I can think of off the top of my head.
Either you choose would be one heckuva system


You might be right, I don't play them loud, I just want the highest quality sound in budget at normal and comfortable levels. I would say my average SPL in use is 65-75db.


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