Wharfedale vs. DefTech bookshelves? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 27 Old 10-01-2018, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Wharfedale vs. DefTech bookshelves?

Setting up a 5.1.2 Atmos in a family room (20x15, high ceilings, bad acoustics....) and have to have bookshelves (actually in a bookcase) due to WAF. Deciding between Def Tech 1000 fronts with Pro 2000 center vs. Wharfedale Diamond 220 and matching center. About 50/50 music and movies with every kind of music. Driving them with a Denon AVR-X3400H.

I currently use Paradigm Titans in a 5.1 setup (which will be repurposed to another room) and have always enjoyed them.

Appreciate your thoughts!
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post #2 of 27 Old 10-01-2018, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Wilson47 View Post
Setting up a 5.1.2 Atmos in a family room (20x15, high ceilings, bad acoustics....) and have to have bookshelves (actually in a bookcase) due to WAF. Deciding between Def Tech 1000 fronts with Pro 2000 center vs. Wharfedale Diamond 220 and matching center. About 50/50 music and movies with every kind of music. Driving them with a Denon AVR-X3400H.

I currently use Paradigm Titans in a 5.1 setup (which will be repurposed to another room) and have always enjoyed them.

Appreciate your thoughts!
Wharfedale's will be very laid back and non fatiguing. Great speakers for Jazz and classical, however to very exciting for HT. Def-tech will be considerably brighter and a better option for movies than music.

Since you like the Paradigm sound, why not stick to it? The older Monitor line is on close-out so great deals can be had. The new Monitor SE line is inexpensive and sound quite nice.

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post #3 of 27 Old 10-01-2018, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I thought about that. The Paradigms were purchased in my previous setup (open air, stands) but my current setup is bookshelves which has altered the sound some. Also, I don't have room for the matching center channel due to space limitations. I will keep the Paradigms in my man-cave/gameroom, but need something a little smaller in size for the main room. I will check out the specs on those however. Thanks!
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post #4 of 27 Old 10-01-2018, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Wilson47 View Post
I thought about that. The Paradigms were purchased in my previous setup (open air, stands) but my current setup is bookshelves which has altered the sound some. Also, I don't have room for the matching center channel due to space limitations. I will keep the Paradigms in my man-cave/gameroom, but need something a little smaller in size for the main room. I will check out the specs on those however. Thanks!
for your set up NHT speakers like the c1 might be what you need .. they are sealed and are reportedly very neutral in presentation..

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #5 of 27 Old 10-01-2018, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Wilson47 View Post
I thought about that. The Paradigms were purchased in my previous setup (open air, stands) but my current setup is bookshelves which has altered the sound some. Also, I don't have room for the matching center channel due to space limitations. I will keep the Paradigms in my man-cave/gameroom, but need something a little smaller in size for the main room. I will check out the specs on those however. Thanks!
In that case RSL might be a better option for you. You'll get good sound with a smaller footprint.
https://rslspeakers.com/cg3-overview/
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post #6 of 27 Old 10-01-2018, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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In that case RSL might be a better option for you. You'll get good sound with a smaller footprint.
https://rslspeakers.com/cg3-overview/
Haven't seen the RSL in person, but they check all the boxes based on first view. Thanks
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post #7 of 27 Old 10-01-2018, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Wilson47 View Post
Setting up a 5.1.2 Atmos in a family room (20x15, high ceilings, bad acoustics....) and have to have bookshelves (actually in a bookcase) due to WAF. Deciding between Def Tech 1000 fronts with Pro 2000 center vs. Wharfedale Diamond 220 and matching center. About 50/50 music and movies with every kind of music.
50/50 usage, I'd go with a mismatched center: perhaps the Emotiva C1 with the Diamond 220. Diamonds will give you beautiful music, the C1 will give you crystal clear voices and dynamics out the wahoo during HT. Just don't mind the TMP.

Are you in the US, or in Canada?

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #8 of 27 Old 10-01-2018, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Wilson47 View Post
I thought about that. The Paradigms were purchased in my previous setup (open air, stands) but my current setup is bookshelves which has altered the sound some. Also, I don't have room for the matching center channel due to space limitations. I will keep the Paradigms in my man-cave/gameroom, but need something a little smaller in size for the main room. I will check out the specs on those however. Thanks!
If I might...given your desire for both a musical speaker and something good for TV/Movies, Dali speakers.... the Zensor 1 will blend both the warmth and dynamics of the 2 speakers you have in question.

Now I understand you probably have little to no knowledge of these speakers, but I can give you a little background. I owned/own a pair of Dali Concept 1 and Paradigm Mini Monitors v6. I had them both for several months playing them back and forth to determine what was going to be the low cost performer in my bedroom setup. The goal was to build a system 2.0 for less then $400. The Paradigm’s were nice speakers and as the wife and I liked the looks a lot, they just didn’t have the smoothness up top or dynamic punch down low, to match a very good mid-range. While with television and movies they were about the same, except the Dalis bass was stronger, it was music where they pulled ahead by leaps. I sold the Mini Monitors, wish I’d had kept them now so I could do a small setup in the kids play-room.

Now the Dalis aren’t perfect either, but their flaws were hidden better then the Paradigms were. And when I took both speakers down stairs to my main setup and compared them to my $5k towers the Dalis showed more clearly that they had more of a high-end sound on an entry level budget. I believe the ones I own were $299 brand new and the current Zensor 1 is $349 on Amazon.com.

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post #9 of 27 Old 10-01-2018, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Wilson47 View Post
. Also, I don't have room for the matching center channel due to space limitations.
Exactly how much space do you have a for a center?

I'm not sure I'd choose Wharfedales for HT use... nor the Def Techs you mentioned. I used to have that PC2000, and it was okay, I suppose, but with some flaws. Let's just say it wouldn't be my first choice.

Since you want a setup for both music + ht, and have limited space for a center, maybe look at Qacoustics. The 3020i has gotten nice reviews, but I'm not sure which center flavor to recommend, the 3090ci or concept. They should fit in smaller spaces, but that also means 4" drivers, so it's kind of a trade-off. Depends on how much center space you have there -- something to at least consider anyway.

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post #10 of 27 Old 10-01-2018, 11:56 PM
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Space for a proper center appear to be limiting your options. If you don't sit too far back and viewing will most be in the sweet spot, you can omit the center completely. This would work best if you can fit speakers with 6.5" drivers on each side. To be honest, getting a center with <4" drivers will likely be more detrimental to your movie experience, especially if you can't achieve optimal placement.

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post #11 of 27 Old 10-02-2018, 06:25 AM - Thread Starter
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50/50 usage, I'd go with a mismatched center: perhaps the Emotiva C1 with the Diamond 220. Diamonds will give you beautiful music, the C1 will give you crystal clear voices and dynamics out the wahoo during HT. Just don't mind the TMP.

Are you in the US, or in Canada?
U.S. I have wondered about mismatched Fronts/Center. Given my space limitations and bad acoustics for this particular location (family/entertaining room), I'm just trying to balance the looks/space/sound as best I can. Next year's project is the dedicated projector room with towers
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post #12 of 27 Old 10-02-2018, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Exactly how much space do you have a for a center?

I'm not sure I'd choose Wharfedales for HT use... nor the Def Techs you mentioned. I used to have that PC2000, and it was okay, I suppose, but with some flaws. Let's just say it wouldn't be my first choice.

Since you want a setup for both music + ht, and have limited space for a center, maybe look at Qacoustics. The 3020i has gotten nice reviews, but I'm not sure which center flavor to recommend, the 3090ci or concept. They should fit in smaller spaces, but that also means 4" drivers, so it's kind of a trade-off. Depends on how much center space you have there -- something to at least consider anyway.
Unfortunately, only about 19" width due to wall unit spacing. I pulled a HTD Level 2 center from another room and it is managable in the short term. With my open concept room, I do prefer 6.5" drivers for all my fronts, especially for music.
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post #13 of 27 Old 10-02-2018, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
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If I might...given your desire for both a musical speaker and something good for TV/Movies, Dali speakers.... the Zensor 1 will blend both the warmth and dynamics of the 2 speakers you have in question.

Now I understand you probably have little to no knowledge of these speakers .
Thanks for the reference. I have no problem, and rather enjoy, finding hidden gem brands like this. Reminds me of some Stillwater Design square towers I bought in the 80's.
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post #14 of 27 Old 10-02-2018, 06:41 AM
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Unfortunately, only about 19" width due to wall unit spacing. I pulled a HTD Level 2 center from another room and it is managable in the short term. With my open concept room, I do prefer 6.5" drivers for all my fronts, especially for music.
Great! Or, if you want, try the HTD Level 3 center, also with 6.5" woofers but a flat tweeter.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #15 of 27 Old 10-02-2018, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Armand90 View Post
Diamonds will give you beautiful music, the C1 will give you crystal clear voices and dynamics out the wahoo during HT
The C1 is a little over an inch too wide for my space, otherwise I like it. The Q Acoustics 3090Ci/3020 looks nice but concerned about them being rear-ported in my open wall unit.
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post #16 of 27 Old 10-02-2018, 10:20 AM
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Unfortunately, only about 19" width due to wall unit spacing. I pulled a HTD Level 2 center from another room and it is managable in the short term. With my open concept room, I do prefer 6.5" drivers for all my fronts, especially for music.
The Chane A2.4 has 5.25" woofers but will play as loud/big as most 6.5" woofer speakers. Ditto for the Emotiva C1, though it's not quite as easy to drive as the A2.4

Other centers with 6.5" woofers:
  • Ascend 340SE
  • Hsu HC-1
  • JBL Studio 235C ($250 shipped with free return shipping)
  • HTD Level 3 center (widely reported as being a big step up from the L2)
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #17 of 27 Old 10-02-2018, 10:33 AM
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Thanks for the reference. I have no problem, and rather enjoy, finding hidden gem brands like this. Reminds me of some Stillwater Design square towers I bought in the 80's.
If you’re stuck on the 6.5” woofers the Zensor 3 is on Amazon also. At least you could return if you don’t like them. If you want something more musical but nice for movies/tv and done mind buying something used, there some Dynaudio Excite X14s on Audiogon.com, $550. The 5.7” woofer can put down some nice punch. I use Dynaudio in my main setup and they’re very good.
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post #18 of 27 Old 10-02-2018, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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If you’re stuck on the 6.5” woofers the Zensor 3 is on Amazon also. At least you could return if you don’t like them. If you want something more musical but nice for movies/tv and done mind buying something used, there some Dynaudio Excite X14s on Audiogon.com, $550. The 5.7” woofer can put down some nice punch. I use Dynaudio in my main setup and they’re very good.
Thanks, those are great suggestions.

My spacing limits is knocking out most of the contenders so far. Thinking about the RSL 3CG or waiting for the 5CG in a month or so as they fit in my space and aren't rear ported. The 5CG will be a few inches bigger which should accommodate a larger woofer.
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post #19 of 27 Old 10-02-2018, 01:15 PM
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Thanks, those are great suggestions.

My spacing limits is knocking out most of the contenders so far. Thinking about the RSL 3CG or waiting for the 5CG in a month or so as they fit in my space and aren't rear ported. The 5CG will be a few inches bigger which should accommodate a larger woofer.
Front ported Elac Debut B6.2?

Two center choices both front ported and reasonably priced.

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post #20 of 27 Old 10-02-2018, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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The Dali Zensor 1+ Vokal center check all my boxes also (maybe even the Dali Opticon 1). These seem to do very well with music, any feedback on movies?

Also, I could increase the size of my fronts if I used them on their side instead of vertically. I experimented doing that with my Paradigms and really couldn't tell any difference.

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post #21 of 27 Old 10-02-2018, 01:26 PM
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Also, the Dali Zensor 1+ Vokal center check all my boxes also (maybe even the Dali Opticon 1). These seem to do very well with music, any feedback on movies?
For a normal home environment a good music speaker is a good movie speaker in my personal experience.
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The Dali Zensor 1+ Vokal center check all my boxes also (maybe even the Dali Opticon 1). These seem to do very well with music, any feedback on movies?
I actually liked the Z1's better for movies than music. The extra little bit of "zing" in the treble made most action movies pretty exciting and dialogue very clear. Also, I really thought the imaging was exceptional overall. For music, I ultimately went with something more neutral at the top, but they were technically very proficient (nice looks, cabinet, drivers, etc.)
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post #23 of 27 Old 10-02-2018, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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The Dali Zensor 1+ Vokal center check all my boxes also (maybe even the Dali Opticon 1). These seem to do very well with music, any feedback on movies?
I actually liked the Z1's better for movies than music. The extra little bit of "zing" in the treble made most action movies pretty exciting and dialogue very clear. Also, I really thought the imaging was exceptional overall. For music, I ultimately went with something more neutral at the top, but they were technically very proficient (nice looks, cabinet, drivers, etc.)
I would be interested in what you settled on for music. Thanks
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I would be interested in what you settled on for music. Thanks
At the time it was a Wharfedale 10.1 bookshelf that won out which I still own. It's not as extended up top as the Dali's but it has more midbass and a very smooth and creamy midrange. The Dali provided more speed and resolution but the tweeter was just a little bit too much in my room. The Dali Z1 is pretty small in size but very detailed and textured so it's a subjective thing. I liked the Dali overall.

Right now, my Philharmonic AA is my budget champ. Dennis has a new AA+ available with an upgraded tweeter that I would personally pick for a 2.0 system (just an FYI as I know you will be using a sub).

Since you are using a sub, you have sooooo many options. The Elac 2.0's are good too with a sub. I have a pretty bright room so I like speakers on the neutral/warm side of the spectrum.

I've also owned the Wharfedale 220's and they were really nice too. They would be perfect for use with a sub. If I was in your situation, I'd probably go with either Elac 6.2's or the Wharfedale 225's but, again, there are A LOT of good choices out there.

FWIW, @callas01 mentioned the Dynaudio Excites which is what I have in my main room and they would be a no-brainer for a more midpriced system.
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@Wilson47
The Emotiva B1 would also be worth considering. I came to them after the Wharfedale 10.1 ... decided to keep the 10.1 for nearfield desktop 2.0 usage, and the B1 with C1 for 80/20 music to HT usage. They have a lot more treble detail than the Wharfedales, most of the midrange fullness, and also zero treble harshness.
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post #26 of 27 Old 10-02-2018, 07:04 PM
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I would be interested in what you settled on for music. Thanks
I know you asked Lonestar what he settled on, I have Dynaudio Focus 260/210C & DM2/6 with HSU VTF3 MK5 HP in my main (5.1) setup. I also use the Dali Concept 1s in my bedroom setup (2.0).

If you’re willing to step up the Excites, I think you’d really be impressed. Even the Emit 10 would be pretty sweet. Used they’d be budget friendly. The X22/24 and the M15C center channels are very good.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/li...-x-12-monitors

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/...udio-emit-m10/
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post #27 of 27 Old 10-03-2018, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by callas01 View Post
I know you asked Lonestar what he settled on, I have Dynaudio Focus 260/210C & DM2/6 with HSU VTF3 MK5 HP in my main (5.1) setup. I also use the Dali Concept 1s in my bedroom setup (2.0).

If you’re willing to step up the Excites, I think you’d really be impressed. Even the Emit 10 would be pretty sweet. Used they’d be budget friendly. The X22/24 and the M15C center channels are very good.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/li...-x-12-monitors

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/...udio-emit-m10/
The Dynaudio Excite line look perfect....their center channels are 1/2 inch too wide for my space unless I can engineering something.
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