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post #31 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by gt4viper View Post
I have the smaller 580’s and find them to be FN AMAZEBALLS.
That is all.

The Studio 5' are a gem that flew under the radar. They have a pedigree many speakers simply don't have at this price point.
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post #32 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 05:53 AM
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3 months ago, I was where you are now. I bought 590s, then went to find a matching center. I ordered both the 520 and 235 to listen for myself. The 520 isn't a full-range speaker but it is great for vocal clarity and pairs really well with the 590s. The 235 has much better range, but it wasn't as good of a complement to the 590s. That being said, I went ahead and ordered a C2 and prefer that to the 520. It's more expensive, and it's not perfect timbre matching, but IDGAF.
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post #33 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by khajja View Post
I went ahead and ordered a C2 and prefer that to the 520. It's more expensive, and it's not perfect timbre matching, but IDGAF.
Am curious, how immediately noticeable do you find the C2's imperfect TM during actual movie/TV watching?

Is it something you always notice without even thinking about it, or something that you have to consciously listen FOR in order to recognize?

I have the Emotiva C1 with the "matching" B1, but to be honest I never noticed anything wrong when I had the C1 with my Wharfedale 10.1 which have a very different sound signature.
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post #34 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Am curious, how immediately noticeable do you find the C2's imperfect TM during actual movie/TV watching?

Is it something you always notice without even thinking about it, or something that you have to consciously listen FOR in order to recognize?

I have the Emotiva C1 with the "matching" B1, but to be honest I never noticed anything wrong when I had the C1 with my Wharfedale 10.1 which have a very different sound signature.
i have said it before to the point of being (to some) obnoxious , but i am with you 110% on the timber match scenario being snake oil (as a need).. i have never matched my center to the surrounds (fronts or rears) mostly because i am music 1st always... i have heard matched systems many times.. i don't hear the difference .. well i CAN hear the difference.. if i ocd out while watching a movie.. but that kinda takes the fun outta watching the movie for me.. seems kinda obvious.. i wonder how many big theaters have replaced speakers over the years with non matching replacements.. anybody out there ever notice.. i am going to go out on a very sturdy limb and say that the # of people who wanted their money back at the theater because of bad timbre matching is a pretty small group...
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post #35 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
the # of people who wanted their money back at the theater because of bad timbre matching is a pretty small group...
And I'm sure that this .00005% refund-demanding population (if it exists) would be comprised entirely by members of AVS and similar forums.
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #36 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 10:00 AM
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And I'm sure that this .00005% refund-demanding population (if it exists) would be comprised entirely by members of AVS and similar forums.
i see that you got my point...

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
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post #37 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 10:04 AM
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i have said it before to the point of being (to some) obnoxious , but i am with you 110% on the timber match scenario being snake oil (as a need).. i have never matched my center to the surrounds (fronts or rears) mostly because i am music 1st always... i have heard matched systems many times.. i don't hear the difference .. well i CAN hear the difference.. if i ocd out while watching a movie.. but that kinda takes the fun outta watching the movie for me.. seems kinda obvious.. i wonder how many big theaters have replaced speakers over the years with non matching replacements.. anybody out there ever notice.. i am going to go out on a very sturdy limb and say that the # of people who wanted their money back at the theater because of bad timbre matching is a pretty small group...

Many AVS'ers don't go to commercial theaters because 99% of them sound like garbage. I did take my son to see Venon and the audio was horrible. If you think replicating the commercial cinema sound within the home is the end goal, I can see why your happy with a mix-matched system. A properly set-up home theater will destroy a commercial cinema experience. Movie theaters are for the masses. The masses of people that frequent the theater also listen to music on their phone speaker or ear buds. Is that how you enjoy your music experience? Of course not.

For the casual movie watcher it's probably a waste - agreed. However, you don't need to be OCD to hear a stark difference with a well designed theater vs one with mix-matched components. A casual listener can discern the difference. Whether or not the cost of entry is worthwhile is a separate subject. I am sure you would never run a mix-matched speaker setup for your music. Likewise, I won't run one in my theater. Every channel is fair game for the same content in today's film mixes. It all boils down to individual, funds available, and room/space restrictions.
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post #38 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
Many AVS'ers don't go to commercial theaters because 99% of them sound like garbage. I did take my son to see Venon and the audio was horrible. If you think replicating the commercial cinema sound within the home is the end goal, I can see why your happy with a mix-matched system. A properly set-up home theater will destroy a commercial cinema experience. Movie theaters are for the masses. The masses of people that frequent the theater also listen to music on their phone speaker or ear buds. Is that how you enjoy your music experience? Of course not.


For the casual movie watcher it's probably a waste - agreed. However, you don't need to be OCD to hear a stark difference with a well designed theater vs one with mix-matched components. A casual listener can discern the difference. Whether or not the cost of entry is worthwhile is a separate subject. I am sure you would never run a mix-matched speaker setup for your music. Likewise, I won't run one in my theater. Every channel is fair game for the same content in today's film mixes. It all boils down to individual, funds available, and room/space restrictions.
agreed .. on all the above.. i guess that describes me (casual movie watcher) my rig sounds better than all but the best commercial theaters , even non matched, but i guess that's my point .. i don't stress out on batman movie sound effects .. i like the sub effect and clear dynamic dialogue.. i get your point , and agree , it's (matching) great for lots of watchers..edit: i just want 1st timers to get "the other" side of the coin.. example: you don't NEED a $600 kef center to match those entry level books you like for music /ht use .. you CAN get a $250 internet only brand and get almost (all) of the benefits ...

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in

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post #39 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 10:18 AM
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With my C2 and 590s, I've never been watching a movie and recognized that something sounded off. In the A/B test of 520 vs C2, I could notice imperfections but I had to really try to find them. For my casual viewing, I couldn't be happier. (Full disclaimer: I say this having not heard the T2s).
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post #40 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by khajja View Post
With my C2 and 590s, I've never been watching a movie and recognized that something sounded off. In the A/B test of 520 vs C2, I could notice imperfections but I had to really try to find them. For my casual viewing, I couldn't be happier. (Full disclaimer: I say this having not heard the T2s).
another example of my point.. if you have to TRY to find the problems in a set up and they aren't readily "in your face " .. you aren't missing anything... enjoy

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #41 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 12:26 PM
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another example of my point.. if you have to TRY to find the problems in a set up and they aren't readily "in your face " .. you aren't missing anything... enjoy

In my case, it is the opposite. I can't "un-hear" the difference. I have a dedicated theater room with all matching towers on the floor with the Atmos speakers being from the same manufacturer and series, so they all match. In my living room, I have JBL 580's and a JBL 520c in the front. I recently added some surrounds and went with the JBL 230 which are from a different family (the bookshelf speaker for the Studio 5 is discontinued). The Studio 5's in the front have compression drivers while the 230's have traditional tweeters i.e. they sound very different. To someone who has not heard all matching or to a casual listern, it probably wouldn't be of any consideration, but I hear it distinctly. My point of reference has changed.
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post #42 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 02:05 PM
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In my case, it is the opposite. I can't "un-hear" the difference.
Agree --- I also can-not un-hear the difference --- it clearly stands out that my Canton center does not blend well with the Revel M105 front speakers. ... But I also understand the less than critical ear will be happy with some mis-matched systems and some of those who do not care as well, it is all about what floats one's boat. I prefer to try and match the front speakers first, and if does not work out, then try another center .... This is another one of those discussions (debates) that will not be settled before the end of the world, just like that about passive bi-amping and speaker break-in. Also most movie theaters do annoy me, mainly because of the brightness of sound.
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post #43 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 02:38 PM
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This is another one of those discussions (debates) that will not be settled before the end of the world, just like that about passive bi-amping and speaker break-in.
Don't forget CD vs vinyl or specific sound signatures of audio amps
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post #44 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 02:47 PM
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Don't forget CD vs vinyl or specific sound signatures of audio amps
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post #45 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 02:48 PM
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Agree --- I also can-not un-hear the difference --- it clearly stands out that my Canton center does not blend well with the Revel M105 front speakers. ... But I also understand the less than critical ear will be happy with some mis-matched systems and some of those who do not care as well, it is all about what floats one's boat. i prefer to try and match the front speakers first, and if does not work out, then try another center .... This is another one of those discussions (debates) that will not be settled before the end of the world, just like that about passive bi-amping and speaker break-in. Also most movie theaters do annoy me, mainly because of the brightness of sound.


Passive bi-amping we all know is snake oil anyone who still believes that is full of ****. That’s one thing we can all agree on



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post #46 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 02:50 PM
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passive bi-amping and speaker break-in.
Except you can objectively measure the different frequency responses of different speakers.

Edit to add:
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Except you can objectively measure the different frequency responses of different speakers.



Edit to add:


And you can objectively say that the same speakers placed in different locations can also change the impressions of timber matching. I’ve seen timber matched systems that sound different because the room is an acoustical nightmare. So to a lesser extent timber matching isn’t as important as some people make it out to be. To me room acoustics is a far more important aspect and that barely gets mentioned


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post #48 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 02:59 PM
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Except you can objectively measure the different frequency responses of different speakers.
Measuring is a benefit to show or relate certain effects -- I also like to see why certain speakers annoy me
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post #49 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
In my case, it is the opposite. I can't "un-hear" the difference. I have a dedicated theater room with all matching towers on the floor with the Atmos speakers being from the same manufacturer and series, so they all match. In my living room, I have JBL 580's and a JBL 520c in the front. I recently added some surrounds and went with the JBL 230 which are from a different family (the bookshelf speaker for the Studio 5 is discontinued). The Studio 5's in the front have compression drivers while the 230's have traditional tweeters i.e. they sound very different. To someone who has not heard all matching or to a casual listen, it probably wouldn't be of any consideration, but I hear it distinctly. My point of reference has changed.
i get the point.. i am probably lucky that i never matched nor worried about it.. i am like you are with your timbre with respect to tv picture quality .. certain motion traits make some tv's/ sources unwatchable for me..

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #50 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
Many AVS'ers don't go to commercial theaters because 99% of them sound like garbage. I did take my son to see Venon and the audio was horrible. If you think replicating the commercial cinema sound within the home is the end goal, I can see why your happy with a mix-matched system. A properly set-up home theater will destroy a commercial cinema experience. Movie theaters are for the masses. The masses of people that frequent the theater also listen to music on their phone speaker or ear buds. Is that how you enjoy your music experience? Of course not.

For the casual movie watcher it's probably a waste - agreed. However, you don't need to be OCD to hear a stark difference with a well designed theater vs one with mix-matched components. A casual listener can discern the difference. Whether or not the cost of entry is worthwhile is a separate subject. I am sure you would never run a mix-matched speaker setup for your music. Likewise, I won't run one in my theater. Every channel is fair game for the same content in today's film mixes. It all boils down to individual, funds available, and room/space restrictions.
Making these claims on AVS assures us that you have done DBT testing to verify your claims. Correct????
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post #51 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 07:21 PM
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LOL, exaggerate much?

Your analogy only applies to multi-channel music. If you seriously think that a typical HT soundtrack is like putting 3 identical instruments playing at the same time on the LCR... baw-hahahahahaha!

Guess when you have no leg to stand on other than an ironclad refusal to admit that you've been had, some people will go to any length to save face.
facts dont need legs......dont be hating on people that can actually hear the difference between somebody beating a cardboard box vs a conga drum
some were born with it, some were not, fact of life.



consider yourself lucky....

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dont be hating on people that can actually hear the difference between somebody beating on a cardboard box vs a conga drum
evidently some cant, so it seems.
some were born with it, some were not, fact of life.
consider yourself lucky....
Yes, I'm lucky not to be a prisoner of PLACEBO EFFECT.

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post #53 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 07:32 PM
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Yes, I'm lucky not to be a prisoner of PLACEBO EFFECT.

ill move on here, sad when people think there way , and ears, are the only ones in the world.
must suck to be that deaf, in ears, and mind...
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post #54 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 07:36 PM
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ill move on here, sad when people think there way , and ears, are the only ones in the world.
must suck to be that deaf, in ears, and mind...
As opposed to having to rely on absurd exaggerations and straw-man arguments in order to maintain a delusion of superiority?
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post #55 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
No exaggerations or delusion here. I know 100% my system is superior to your mix-matched system. I will gladly host a G2G and fly you and your equipment in to have a double blind study to make Mudcat happy. We can settle this "placebo" effect once and for all. Come have some brisket on my dime
I do love me some tender Texas brisket, but aside from the fact that I was addressing a different poster, I see that you have an admirable talent for making improbable offers you know very well will never happen...so let's see, I'll one up you: we'll get TRUMP to fly both of us to the Canadian NRC for a 3rd party hosted/verified blind testing...in one of their anechoic chambers, of course! And the winner gets to travel via time machine and boink Melania of 20 years ago.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #56 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 08:15 PM
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Yes, I'm lucky not to be a prisoner of PLACEBO EFFECT.
So you do or don't think your Whardales have audibly different tonal qualities from your Emotivas?
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post #57 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jjackkrash View Post
So you do or don't think your Whardales have audibly different tonal qualities from your Emotivas?
"Audible" during 2 channel music listening.

"Audible with deliberate concentration" at other times.

"Inaudible" during HT using any center speaker with the B1s or 10.1s

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #58 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
"Audible" during 2 channel music listening.

"Audible with deliberate concentration" at other times.

"Inaudible" during HT using any center speaker with the B1s or 10.1s
Ya, it just seems a little aggressive to label posters who notice tonal differences between speakers "delusional" when you note the following elsewhere:

"The main scenario where one's music system would not be a good choice for HT is if it's an overly 'warm' setup, which lacks the optimally high detail and dynamics of a more 'bright'; or 'neutral' system...for example, I would not pick my Wharfedale Diamond speakers for HT over my Emotiva speakers, but the Wharfedales deliver certain tonal qualities that my Emotivas cannot for specific genres of music I happen to listen to the most often. However, if your music system already has bright or neutral speakers, it could easily be put to dual use."
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post #59 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I have a dedicated theater room with all matching towers on the floor with the Atmos speakers being from the same manufacturer and series, so they all match.
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
Don't forget CD vs vinyl or specific sound signatures of audio amps
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Originally Posted by edwardccm View Post
And you can objectively say that the same speakers placed in different locations can also change the impressions of timber matching. I’ve seen timber matched systems that sound different because the room is an acoustical nightmare.
My 3 LCR Behringer B215XL are behind an AT screen. To my surprise, they sound different when I play white noise over them as well as during Audyssey calibration beeps. The left and right sound the same, but both sound different from the center. The center sounds fuller though (goes deeper). Post Audyssey crossover for center is 110Hz while left/right is 150Hz. The center is powered by a Crown XLS1502 while the left and right are powered by XLS2002. The center also uses different speaker wire, although all 3 wires are 14AWG, big enough for a short run. The interconnect RCA cables between my AVR and the amps are the same (from KabelDirekt). The left/right speakers are toe-in. Haven't got time to move my speakers and test in detail (I'm lazy to bring down the AT screen). Matching sound is not as simple as buying the same speaker, but it's close enough. During movies, I don't hear anything that's off. Perhaps my room is just crappy or the Crown amps sound different?
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Last edited by Skylinestar; 10-16-2018 at 08:54 PM.
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post #60 of 116 Old 10-16-2018, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jjackkrash View Post
Ya, it just seems a little aggressive to label posters who notice tonal differences between speakers "delusional" when you note the following elsewhere:

"The main scenario where one's music system would not be a good choice for HT is if it's an overly 'warm' setup, which lacks the optimally high detail and dynamics of a more 'bright'; or 'neutral' system...for example, I would not pick my Wharfedale Diamond speakers for HT over my Emotiva speakers, but the Wharfedales deliver certain tonal qualities that my Emotivas cannot for specific genres of music I happen to listen to the most often. However, if your music system already has bright or neutral speakers, it could easily be put to dual use."
yes I plead guilty, we have been having the usual aggressive rhetorical jousting over the usual "timbre matching" controversy. All in good fun, as befitting this silly hobby.
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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