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post #61 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 05:17 AM
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I do love me some tender Texas brisket, but aside from the fact that I was addressing a different poster, I see that you have an admirable talent for making improbable offers you know very well will never happen...so let's see, I'll one up you: we'll get TRUMP to fly both of us to the Canadian NRC for a 3rd party hosted/verified blind testing...in one of their anechoic chambers, of course! And the winner gets to travel via time machine and boink Melania of 20 years ago.
I actually think we would have some fun hanging together even though we don't agree on speakers Its all good fun and its a forum for goodness sakes. We cant take this stuff too serious, its just a hobby. Lively discussions help pass the time.
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post #62 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
My 3 LCR Behringer B215XL are behind an AT screen. To my surprise, they sound different when I play white noise over them as well as during Audyssey calibration beeps. The left and right sound the same, but both sound different from the center. The center sounds fuller though (goes deeper). Post Audyssey crossover for center is 110Hz while left/right is 150Hz. The center is powered by a Crown XLS1502 while the left and right are powered by XLS2002. The center also uses different speaker wire, although all 3 wires are 14AWG, big enough for a short run. The interconnect RCA cables between my AVR and the amps are the same (from KabelDirekt). The left/right speakers are toe-in. Haven't got time to move my speakers and test in detail (I'm lazy to bring down the AT screen). Matching sound is not as simple as buying the same speaker, but it's close enough. During movies, I don't hear anything that's off. Perhaps my room is just crappy or the Crown amps sound different?
I suspect you might be getting ceiling or floor reflections on your center. Your prior JBL 3677 had that wave guide which helped eliminate the room to an extent by directing the sound. REW should sort out what is happening. How are you liking those Behringers? I know MKTheater was really impressed with them. Looks like there is some serious bang for the buck performance with those.
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post #63 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 05:46 AM
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You got me buddy. I got caught having a discussion on a discussion board without my double blind study papers. My hands are up - don't shoot.


No exaggerations or delusion here. I know 100% my system is superior to your mix-matched system. I will gladly host a G2G and fly you and your equipment in to have a double blind study to make Mudcat happy. We can settle this "placebo" effect once and for all. Loser will forfeit all rights to make future speaker recommendations. Deal?
I am happy. I was simply following protocol by requesting DBT proof.
I have Revel F32 mains and Revel C52 center. However, the fun of this hobby is to try various components. The only thing I would not consider swapping out is my wife and kids.
I also have JBL S580's and the C52 blends exceptionally well to my old ears. I have also been using Emotiva C2 for a couple weeks and it also blends very very well with the JBL's.
It only makes sense that using all identical speakers should be the absolute best. However, that is not practical for most users.
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post #64 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 06:32 AM
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Nice speakers!
Thanks. I have never tired of the Revels and an old pair of Klipsch KG5's that I use in another system. The JBL's are about a lateral move from the Revels.
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post #65 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I suspect you might be getting ceiling or floor reflections on your center. Your prior JBL 3677 had that wave guide which helped eliminate the room to an extent by directing the sound. REW should sort out what is happening. How are you liking those Behringers? I know MKTheater was really impressed with them. Looks like there is some serious bang for the buck performance with those.
As expected, it doesn't go low, but the mids and highs are excellent. Getting another set for heights will complete my audio nirvana but I can't sell off my JBL 8340A. Don't wanna derailed too far as this is the JBL-Emotiva-SVS thread.
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post #66 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
As expected, it doesn't go low, but the mids and highs are excellent. Getting another set for heights will complete my audio nirvana but I can't sell off my JBL 8340A. Don't wanna derailed too far as this is the JBL-Emotiva-SVS thread.


Lol this conversation is long past that. Not sure the OP is even following the thread anymore


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post #67 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 12:43 PM
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It only makes sense that using all identical speakers should be the absolute best.
I actually do agree agree with this, when it means 3 identical front speakers vertically aligned rather than 2 vertical and 1 allegedly "matching" horizontal center, AND when those 3 identical fronts have decent sized drivers.

For example, I would be confident in saying that 3 x bookshelf speakers with a single lousy 4" woofer is NOT going to sound better than 2 of those same bookshelves with a decently designed DUAL woofer horizontal center (MTM) with 4" or (much preferably) larger woofers, ESPECIALLY if its a 3-way MTM design.

There are all kinds of distinctions, nuances and qualifications around this whole "timbre matching" issue ASIDE FROM the equally crucial issue of people having WAF and budgetary restrictions in the real world, that are too often overlooked in favor of some kind of absolutist, authority-driven approach. As with just about everything in life, it's simply not a black-and-white, open-and-shut case.
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post #68 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
I actually do agree agree with this, when it means 3 identical front speakers vertically aligned rather than 2 vertical and 1 allegedly "matching" horizontal center, AND when those 3 identical fronts have decent sized drivers.
Bingo. My take is that every speaker in your system should be reasonably well designed, accurate, and meet your output needs if you can swing it; you should also avoid unnecessary design compromises if you can swing it.
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post #69 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 01:11 PM
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Stop the world, I need to get off. We have multi agreements with Zorba. Surely this is a sign of the end of the age.
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post #70 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jjackkrash View Post
Bingo. My take is that every speaker in your system should be reasonably well designed, accurate, and meet your output needs if you can swing it; you should also avoid unnecessary design compromises if you can swing it.
In a living room, assuming quality speakers for all front three, the aesthetic appeal of three speakers from the same design family cannot be discounted IMHO.

In a "home theatre/batcave" all bets are off.

For example, PSA makes great speakers but they'd never "fly" in my house.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #71 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 01:19 PM
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Stop the world, I need to get off. We have multi agreements with Zorba. Surely this is a sign of the end of the age.
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post #72 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 01:24 PM
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Seeing this thread wants me to try the JBL S580 with Emo C2 Center. I have a 20% coupon waiting for it.
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post #73 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 01:28 PM
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Seeing this thread wants me to try the JBL S580 with Emo C2 Center. I have a 20% coupon waiting for it.


Go for it do it!!!


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post #74 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 01:35 PM
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Go for it do it!!!


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Once the 580's goes on sale will do!!!
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post #75 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
Get them both
Compare
Max $80 return
Many fan boys of 590
They good buttttt
What do they have that matches with C2?

Nada
True the matching JBL center is the 520c but it's tiny, with 4" woofers. I have the 590's they are amazing, BIG but amazing, my center is the next thing being replaced and I plan on going with the Emotiva C2 not the matching JBL center.
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post #76 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by liffie420 View Post
True the matching JBL center is the 520c but it's tiny, with 4" woofers. I have the 590's they are amazing, BIG but amazing, my center is the next thing being replaced and I plan on going with the Emotiva C2 not the matching JBL center.
My position is and continues to be that, for example, that speakers like the 520c are not a "matching" center for the 590s despite what JBL's marketing department says. There's no way 4" woofers are a true "match" for the big JBL 590s. The true "match" is another JBL 590.
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post #77 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 01:58 PM
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i have said it before to the point of being (to some) obnoxious , but i am with you 110% on the timber match scenario being snake oil (as a need).. i have never matched my center to the surrounds (fronts or rears) mostly because i am music 1st always... i have heard matched systems many times.. i don't hear the difference .. well i CAN hear the difference.. if i ocd out while watching a movie.. but that kinda takes the fun outta watching the movie for me.. seems kinda obvious.. i wonder how many big theaters have replaced speakers over the years with non matching replacements.. anybody out there ever notice.. i am going to go out on a very sturdy limb and say that the # of people who wanted their money back at the theater because of bad timbre matching is a pretty small group...
Well not to deflate your argument or anything because, I am with you and Zorba on this, but in the case of theaters, they ALWAYS use 3 identical speakers on the front stage. But again I agree with you the only time I can see a solid argument for timber matching all around is in multichannel music, but that is a VERY tiny group of people. Me i am going the blasphemous way with a mis matching center the Emotiva C2 to go with my JBL 590's. The JBL centers are just to small.
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post #78 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 02:00 PM
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My position is and continues to be that, for example, that speakers like the 520c are not a "matching" center for the 590s despite what JBL's marketing department says. There's no way 4" woofers are a true "match" for the big JBL 590s. The true "match" is another JBL 590.


Not many can get away with 3 huge towers as front stage


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post #79 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 02:01 PM
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My position is and continues to be that, for example, that speakers like the 520c are not a "matching" center for the 590s despite what JBL's marketing department says. There's no way 4" woofers are a true "match" for the big JBL 590s. The true "match" is another JBL 590.
Oh I agree in an ideal world your front 3 should all be literally identical speakers, be they bookshelf or tower speakers. Horizontal centers are always a compromise, because frankly very few can fit an upright bookshelf much less tower speaker up front. But I just don't think the little 4" woofers in the 520C are going to hold their own against the much larger 590's which is why I was looking at the Emotiva C2 and the Klipsch 450C, granted the Klipsch ALSO has 4" woofers but its got 6, more cone area more air moved.
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post #80 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 02:06 PM
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Not many can get away with 3 huge towers as front stage


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Yup, sometimes compromises are necessary to fit the room.
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post #81 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 02:26 PM
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I have not found it lacking with spirited listening. How loud are you tyring to play? How far away are you from the center speaker? I have matching 590's upstairs in the theater, which are undoubtedly better, but have 580's and the 520c downstairs and it plays louder than my wife allows just fine. I sit about 13 feet from the center.
I am probably about the same distance about 12 feet give or take and we normally listen, movie wise, about -15 give or take.
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post #82 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 05:14 PM
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3 months ago, I was where you are now. I bought 590s, then went to find a matching center. I ordered both the 520 and 235 to listen for myself. The 520 isn't a full-range speaker but it is great for vocal clarity and pairs really well with the 590s. The 235 has much better range, but it wasn't as good of a complement to the 590s. That being said, I went ahead and ordered a C2 and prefer that to the 520. It's more expensive, and it's not perfect timbre matching, but IDGAF.
looks close to full range to me..


Frequency Response 60Hz-40kHz
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post #83 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 06:11 PM
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Well not to deflate your argument or anything because, I am with you and Zorba on this, but in the case of theaters, they ALWAYS use 3 identical speakers on the front stage. But again I agree with you the only time I can see a solid argument for timber matching all around is in multichannel music, but that is a VERY tiny group of people. Me i am going the blasphemous way with a mis matching center the Emotiva C2 to go with my JBL 590's. The JBL centers are just to small.
have you already bought that setup or still working on it? i'd love to hear your opinions. I love my 590s + C2

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looks close to full range to me..


Frequency Response 60Hz-40kHz
no offense, but have you ever listened to the 520? how many db can it produce at 60hz? i'm not an audiophile, but i've listened to the 520 and i've listened to the 235 and i've listened to the c2. the 520 has BY FAR the worst mid-bass of those 3. I could use 235s as bookshelves and be happy. I could NOT use the 520s as bookshelves. they fall off much much harder on the low end. that being said, they DO pair well with the 590s. surprisingly well. when sitting in the sweet spot, the 590s absolutely make up for the shortcomings of the 520. but that's vs the 235. the c2 is in another class
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post #84 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 06:28 PM
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have you already bought that setup or still working on it? i'd love to hear your opinions. I love my 590s + C2



no offense, but have you ever listened to the 520? how many db can it produce at 60hz? i'm not an audiophile, but i've listened to the 520 and i've listened to the 235 and i've listened to the c2. the 520 has BY FAR the worst mid-bass of those 3. I could use 235s as bookshelves and be happy. I could NOT use the 520s as bookshelves. they fall off much much harder on the low end. that being said, they DO pair well with the 590s. surprisingly well. when sitting in the sweet spot, the 590s absolutely make up for the shortcomings of the 520. but that's vs the 235. the c2 is in another class
yeah, i got a pair of 590s, and the 520 c a week or so ago.
not had alot of time to mess with it yet, but it sounds pretty good so far.
not blown me away yet like the 590s, but surprising for its size for sure.
i can tell when doing the pink noise calibration on my onkyo esp, that its pretty far behind the 590s in output
i am seriously considering trying out that c2 though before my 30 days is up on the 520
is it that much better ?

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post #85 of 116 Old 10-17-2018, 06:37 PM
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Stop the world, I need to get off. We have multi agreements with Zorba. Surely this is a sign of the end of the age.
Or, maybe it means the Second Coming has already come.


~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #86 of 116 Old 10-18-2018, 02:35 AM
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Well not to deflate your argument or anything because, I am with you and Zorba on this, but in the case of theaters, they ALWAYS use 3 identical speakers on the front stage. But again I agree with you the only time I can see a solid argument for timber matching all around is in multichannel music, but that is a VERY tiny group of people. Me i am going the blasphemous way with a mis matching center the Emotiva C2 to go with my JBL 590's. The JBL centers are just to small.
I can see that Studio 590 + 520c setup is designed for the audiophile crowd with zero intention for movies, which is too common in almost every speaker brands. Damn manufacturers who only sell speakers in pair. How many movie guys here have setup that is totally opposite - overkill center speaker but lower quality left & right? Since center speaker plays the biggest role in a movie, it seems wise to spend more on a center speaker.
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post #87 of 116 Old 10-18-2018, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by khajja View Post
have you already bought that setup or still working on it? i'd love to hear your opinions. I love my 590s + C2



no offense, but have you ever listened to the 520? how many db can it produce at 60hz? i'm not an audiophile, but i've listened to the 520 and i've listened to the 235 and i've listened to the c2. the 520 has BY FAR the worst mid-bass of those 3. I could use 235s as bookshelves and be happy. I could NOT use the 520s as bookshelves. they fall off much much harder on the low end. that being said, they DO pair well with the 590s. surprisingly well. when sitting in the sweet spot, the 590s absolutely make up for the shortcomings of the 520. but that's vs the 235. the c2 is in another class
I have not bought the C2 just yet. I am waiting until around the first of the year, OR if there is a good black friday sale. I am currently using a cheap Dayton Audio center I got with my 5.1 set up, and frankly it sounds fine, although I do have the vocal boost on my Denon at like +6, but that was even before my 590's. I do really like the 590's though, once they got broken in and I got everything dialed in with Audyssey the combo of that and my Rythmik LVX12 sounds pretty damn amazing. I actually just have a thing for a larger center. and frankly a paid of 4" bass drivers just seems on the small side to me. The one and only concern about the C2 I have is the 4 ohm rating but most here seem to think it is more of a CYA thing than anything. Worse case scenario I pick up a cheap 100 watt 4 ohm stable amp and use that to power the center. Even though I am going ot have to red neck engineer it since my AVR doesn't have pre outs so I would need a speaker level to line level adapter which could add noise to the signal path.
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post #88 of 116 Old 10-18-2018, 06:52 AM
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looks close to full range to me..


Frequency Response 60Hz-40kHz
Well thing is though how much SPL can it pull at 60hz? Most people run a 80hz crossover, generally, but you want your speakers to be capable below that 80hz point because its not hard wall there is just a roll off below 80hz. Ideally you want your speakers to still be very capable below that point, the 520C might be able to play down to 60hz, but it might (and I don't know for sure) have a big roll off starting around 80 or just below. Me personally I just prefer larger drivers or MORE smaller drivers. The 2 centers I was looking at are the Emotiva C2, with 6" or 6.5" mains, or the Klipsch 450C which has 6 4" mains
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post #89 of 116 Old 10-18-2018, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by liffie420 View Post
The 2 centers I was looking at are the Emotiva C2, with 6" or 6.5" mains, or the Klipsch 450C which has 6 4" mains
The 450 and 440 centers I think are primarily driven by WAF goals, giving you a lower height due to the smaller drivers.

What the C2 and C1 have over those is a 3-way design, which most people find to be generally optimal for a horizontal center.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #90 of 116 Old 10-20-2018, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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The JBL 590 towers arrived yesterday. They were twice as big and heavy as I expected. Luckily I have a hand cart and a walk out basement so I carted them around the house, down the hill to get them in the basement where my HT set up is.

Listened to some music and watched some TV last night and sounded great. However, the biggest bang for my buck definitely comes from the new JBL center speaker - JBL Studio 520CBK

Can hear everyone talking clearly and no longer an urge to turn on the closed captions!

I think the budget upgrade would have been just the center, but the towers are nice, but it will take some getting used to giant towers replacing my book shelf fronts.
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I feel infinite
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