Stop me from buying these $5,000 KEF floorstanders! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 80 Old 11-25-2018, 12:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Stop me from buying these $5,000 KEF floorstanders!

I'm a huge fan of the LS50W's hooked up to my desktop pc and have been looking for speakers for my great room for quite some time. KEF recently released their updated R line of speakers and the R11 looks like it might have a chance of sufficiently filling my great room with sound. Dimensions are 17x18x18 with an opening to the dining / kitchen. There's no dealers nearby where I can audition the R11's but if they sound like big LS50's I'll be a happy camper.

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post #2 of 80 Old 11-25-2018, 12:43 AM
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post #3 of 80 Old 11-25-2018, 12:45 AM
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Semi off topic but what do you use for DAC / AMP in your desktop LS50 setup?

If you can swing it, get those fooorstanders.
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post #4 of 80 Old 11-25-2018, 12:49 AM
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Or you could go with R3s/R300s and a pair of subs. Seems to be paying alot for some 6.5 midbass woofers unless you mainly like the looks of a tower.
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post #5 of 80 Old 11-25-2018, 01:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I have the LS50W. They have built in dac and amp.
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post #6 of 80 Old 11-25-2018, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Lazarynth View Post
I'm a huge fan of the LS50W's hooked up to my desktop pc and have been looking for speakers for my great room for quite some time. KEF recently released their updated R line of speakers and the R11 looks like it might have a chance of sufficiently filling my great room with sound. Dimensions are 17x18x18 with an opening to the dining / kitchen. There's no dealers nearby where I can audition the R11's but if they sound like big LS50's I'll be a happy camper.



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I’m going to stop you from buying them by suggesting you just get the Blades by Kef instead cause why not

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #7 of 80 Old 11-25-2018, 04:45 AM
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The R11’s are 5K a pair.

Two alternatives:

Q950’s for $1,800 a pair. These should have no problem filling your room. The older Q900’s measured very well—I would imagine these are an improvement. Of course, the finish won’t be nearly as nice.

You could take the $3,200 you saved from the R11’s and get a pair of subs and still have a lot left over.

Or you could get the R900’s for $3,600 a pair. Save the $1,400 or put it towards dual subs.

That being said, it sounds like your heart is set on the R11’s. Haven’t heard them but I’m sure they’re phenomenal.



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post #8 of 80 Old 11-25-2018, 05:06 AM
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Thumbs up

My local dealer in NH had his annual fall audio show November 9th. KEF was there w/the new R-Line. The R-11 was hooked up to some NAIM equipment and the SQ was excellent. Can easily compete w/speakers in the 10K category. W/your room size the R-11 should be a nice fit. Very balanced speaker from top to bottom end.
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post #9 of 80 Old 11-25-2018, 05:15 AM
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It looks like the Ref5 and I really liked the Ref3 when I heard it.... I say go for it!
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post #10 of 80 Old 11-25-2018, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by astrallite View Post
Or you could go with R3s/R300s and a pair of subs. Seems to be paying alot for some 6.5 midbass woofers unless you mainly like the looks of a tower.
I do like the look of the R3's but I'm not sure they would be able to fill the room like the R11's would, even with subs. Plus wouldn't the mids be lacking? R3's with subs seems like you'd have enough treble and bass but not enough mids? Maybe I'm wrong here.
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post #11 of 80 Old 11-25-2018, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I’m going to stop you from buying them by suggesting you just get the Blades by Kef instead cause why not
Don't think I haven't considered it! I figured I was happy with the performance of the LS50W's and just wanted a similar sound in my main living space. Plus, what would I upgrade to in the future if I got those things?! Everything would surely be out of my price range at that point!
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post #12 of 80 Old 11-25-2018, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Lazarynth View Post
I do like the look of the R3's but I'm not sure they would be able to fill the room like the R11's would, even with subs. Plus wouldn't the mids be lacking? R3's with subs seems like you'd have enough treble and bass but not enough mids? Maybe I'm wrong here.
SPL is mainly about listening distance, not the size of your room, the bass is what is difficult in a bigger room so R3 and subs(at least 2) could be ok. All of the new R series has the same UniQ mid driver crossed over at 400Hz, so above that frequency thy're identical. The bigger towers will have more output under about 120Hz which might make a difference, it's hard to say. Your typical listening levels also matter, if you listen above 90db regularly, the towers might be a good buy.
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post #13 of 80 Old 11-25-2018, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dftkell View Post
The R11’s are 5K a pair.

Two alternatives:

Q950’s for $1,800 a pair. These should have no problem filling your room. The older Q900’s measured very well—I would imagine these are an improvement. Of course, the finish won’t be nearly as nice.

You could take the $3,200 you saved from the R11’s and get a pair of subs and still have a lot left over.

Or you could get the R900’s for $3,600 a pair. Save the $1,400 or put it towards dual subs.

That being said, it sounds like your heart is set on the R11’s. Haven’t heard them but I’m sure they’re phenomenal.



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I did look at the Q950's. They are considerably cheaper and that worries me. I recently bought some Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2's for a smaller listening room. Everyone was raving about them at the $300 price point. Best buy was selling them for 50% off ($150 for the pair) so I figured why not try them since they're ridiculously discounted?

Well, long story short they sounded like crap. If you have $150 to spend on bookshelf speakers for gods sake spend another $850 and get LS50's on sale right now. The difference is night and day. Details get blurred away into the background with the Elacs and you only hear the loudest parts of the track. They may be "good for the price" but even at $150 I'd rather just get the LS50's at $1k or $1500 for that matter. I'm aware not everyone has that luxury but I would honestly save your money for the best speakers you think you can reasonably afford. Oh crap did I just upsell myself to the Blades?!

Surely there's some significant diminishing returns after the $2-3000 price point! Yes, I think I'll stay in the $2000-7000 range for this pair =P

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post #14 of 80 Old 11-25-2018, 01:57 PM
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I did look at the Q950's. They are considerably cheaper and that worries me. I recently bought some Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2's for a smaller listening room. Everyone was raving about them at the $300 price point. Best buy was selling them for 50% off ($150 for the pair) so I figured why not try them since they're ridiculously discounted?

Well, long story short they sounded like crap.
Many bought them -- and I expect quite a few will grow tired of them

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post #15 of 80 Old 11-25-2018, 02:00 PM
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Or you could go with R3s/R300s and a pair of subs. Seems to be paying alot for some 6.5 midbass woofers unless you mainly like the looks of a tower.
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I do like the look of the R3's but I'm not sure they would be able to fill the room like the R11's would, even with subs. Plus wouldn't the mids be lacking? R3's with subs seems like you'd have enough treble and bass but not enough mids? Maybe I'm wrong here.
The R11 to the R3 all crossover to the 6.5" drivers at 400hz and it looks like the mids up is sealed in side the box. I'm sure the crossovers will be different for all the models as the high's will need to be level matched as the number of bass drivers go up but the mid range to high should have the same potential for the entire speaker range.

If you are really worried about the room filling, you could run a midbass subwoofer like dual Rythmik MF8 ($2000)crossed at 250hz. This way the 6.5" driver is only running from 400Hz to 250Hz. They you can finish with a single Rythmik F18 ($1600).

... Never mind this will just get you back to your $5000 price but it would be more room filling and more bass.
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post #16 of 80 Old 11-25-2018, 02:27 PM
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YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYE SYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESY ESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYE SYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESY ESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYE SYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESY ESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYE SYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESY ESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES

No... don't buy them...

YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYE SYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESY ESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYE SYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESY ESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYE SYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESY ESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES
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post #17 of 80 Old 11-25-2018, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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The R11 to the R3 all crossover to the 6.5" drivers at 400hz and it looks like the mids up is sealed in side the box. I'm sure the crossovers will be different for all the models as the high's will need to be level matched as the number of bass drivers go up but the mid range to high should have the same potential for the entire speaker range.

If you are really worried about the room filling, you could run a midbass subwoofer like dual Rythmik MF8 ($2000)crossed at 250hz. This way the 6.5" driver is only running from 400Hz to 250Hz. They you can finish with a single Rythmik F18 ($1600).

... Never mind this will just get you back to your $5000 price but it would be more room filling and more bass.
I'm trying to keep the area somewhat pretty as well as it's my main living area and not a dedicated listening room. I can fit 1 sub for sure, 2 might be pushing it but maybe there's a way.

R3+1 or 2 subs

R11+1 or 2 subs

Would something like the Rythmik F12-300 be sufficient sub wise or would I want to step up to the 15" models?
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post #18 of 80 Old 11-25-2018, 03:36 PM
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Nothing wrong with running R3's on top of subs. Lot of people and companies do this. A couple Rythmik L22's would work fine.




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post #19 of 80 Old 11-25-2018, 08:06 PM
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I say K.I.S.S.

I listened to the LS50W in a nice sized room at the AXPONA audio show. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...8695-jpg.6050/
I very well remember the Celestial Echo track by Malia & Boris Blank and how full the sound was at the back of the room. Why not go with another set mated with one or two HSU ULS-15, Rythmik, or Kef R400b subs? You'll have a simplified big sounding setup that you already know you'll love for much less money $3K-$4K....given a preamp, amp, Dac, connecting wires, & cables wont be needed.

The LS50W & sub is the direction I hope to take someday in my living room.

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post #20 of 80 Old 11-26-2018, 08:51 AM
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I'm going to guess this is about the impressive looks of the floor-stander vs the R3.
I'll briefly describe my leanings so that you have an idea why I make the following recommendations.
I purchased the C80 back in '88 when money was tight. I wanted the REF 104.2 but couldn't scrape up the funds. Recently, I started down the path to better sound. R500's hit the sweet spot for me and can fill larger spaces just fine. Shortly after, subwoofers hit the radar screen.
Being bit by the bug and funds not an issue, I started sampling... a lot!
Q100, R100, R500, X300a, LS50 x2, LS50w, REF3 and now R11... plus other brands that have been given away.
Johan Corog stopped by our local shop with R11 demo's and I pre-ordered a set. He said the R3's outperform the LS50 top to bottom.
My experience with the R11's is that the 12th generation UNI-Q is so well refined that it seems unlikely that any detail is being left out or masked.
Depending on taste, a sub is useful to get more of the first octave impact and feel. If you want a large speaker for the visuals and adequate bass (less the sub), R11's for sure. If sound is important but you need to keep this somewhat tidy, R3, R5, LS50(w), all with a sub or 2. Wireless subs can go almost out of sight. Wireless transmitters from SVS are $100 each.
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post #21 of 80 Old 11-26-2018, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm going to guess this is about the impressive looks of the floor-stander vs the R3.
I'll briefly describe my leanings so that you have an idea why I make the following recommendations.
I purchased the C80 back in '88 when money was tight. I wanted the REF 104.2 but couldn't scrape up the funds. Recently, I started down the path to better sound. R500's hit the sweet spot for me and can fill larger spaces just fine. Shortly after, subwoofers hit the radar screen.
Being bit by the bug and funds not an issue, I started sampling... a lot!
Q100, R100, R500, X300a, LS50 x2, LS50w, REF3 and now R11... plus other brands that have been given away.
Johan Corog stopped by our local shop with R11 demo's and I pre-ordered a set. He said the R3's outperform the LS50 top to bottom.
My experience with the R11's is that the 12th generation UNI-Q is so well refined that it seems unlikely that any detail is being left out or masked.
Depending on taste, a sub is useful to get more of the first octave impact and feel. If you want a large speaker for the visuals and adequate bass (less the sub), R11's for sure. If sound is important but you need to keep this somewhat tidy, R3, R5, LS50(w), all with a sub or 2. Wireless subs can go almost out of sight. Wireless transmitters from SVS are $100 each.
Don't care so much about looks (up to a point) as I do about getting the best sounding system I can for the space. If R3's + subs would sound as good as R11's + subs I'd be totally for it since I'd be saving $3k on speakers! The R11's are rated at 90db and the R3's are only 87db so I'd need better amps but I think I'm still saving money that way. But would it sound as good is my main concern.
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post #22 of 80 Old 11-27-2018, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Lazarynth View Post
Don't care so much about looks (up to a point) as I do about getting the best sounding system I can for the space. If R3's + subs would sound as good as R11's + subs I'd be totally for it since I'd be saving $3k on speakers! The R11's are rated at 90db and the R3's are only 87db so I'd need better amps but I think I'm still saving money that way. But would it sound as good is my main concern.
Just get the R11s as likely you will keep them at least for a decade or $500/year or $1.37/day.

Your enjoyment is worth $1.37/day, right?
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post #23 of 80 Old 11-27-2018, 12:45 PM
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This is the wrong place to get people to talk you out of spending money.
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post #24 of 80 Old 11-27-2018, 03:08 PM
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For reference, MSRP on a pair of Revel F208's is $5K.


https://www.stereophile.com/content/...08-loudspeaker


Just sayin'....
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post #25 of 80 Old 11-27-2018, 03:18 PM
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I was at the same event as @Class A was, and heard the R11's. They had been taken out of the boxes that very afternoon. Even without break-in, those things came SO CLOSE to what Reference 3's sound like at nearly 3x the price that I was shocked. Incredible detail and presence. The dominated the large room. Of course being powered by nearly $30k of Naim gear may have helped, but since speakers are 95% of what you hear I was not disappointed. I have a new mission planned for the next year...get a pair.
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post #26 of 80 Old 11-27-2018, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarynth View Post
Don't care so much about looks (up to a point) as I do about getting the best sounding system I can for the space. If R3's + subs would sound as good as R11's + subs I'd be totally for it since I'd be saving $3k on speakers! The R11's are rated at 90db and the R3's are only 87db so I'd need better amps but I think I'm still saving money that way. But would it sound as good is my main concern.
I know everyone always assumes "bigger is better" in the US but all of the new KEF R use the identical midwoofer with an identical 400Hz crossover, the only difference is the number of woofers. So it basically depends on your listening distance and your SPL levels on whether the R3 would be good enough. If you don't listen above 90db then I'd say get the R3 with dual subs and save some money. If you crank it louder than that you may want towers. Don't forget the R2c either, that looks like it would make a great LCR for all 3 channels as well.
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post #27 of 80 Old 11-27-2018, 05:40 PM
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There's an awful lot of music I listen to that doesn't have bass below 25-30hz, and believe me those R11's can dig deep and shake the floor. If I ever get them, I would be using them 90% of the time in 2.0 stereo mode for best coherence.

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post #28 of 80 Old 11-27-2018, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarynth View Post
I did look at the Q950's. They are considerably cheaper and that worries me. I recently bought some Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2's for a smaller listening room. Everyone was raving about them at the $300 price point. Best buy was selling them for 50% off ($150 for the pair) so I figured why not try them since they're ridiculously discounted?

Well, long story short they sounded like crap. If you have $150 to spend on bookshelf speakers for gods sake spend another $850 and get LS50's on sale right now. The difference is night and day. Details get blurred away into the background with the Elacs and you only hear the loudest parts of the track. They may be "good for the price" but even at $150 I'd rather just get the LS50's at $1k or $1500 for that matter. I'm aware not everyone has that luxury but I would honestly save your money for the best speakers you think you can reasonably afford. Oh crap did I just upsell myself to the Blades?!

Surely there's some significant diminishing returns after the $2-3000 price point! Yes, I think I'll stay in the $2000-7000 range for this pair =P
Most people raved about the Pioneer Andrew Jones BS22's. I heard them and they sounded like crap. I was never that impressed with the Elac's either - they are not detailed and sound muffled.

That's not to say that great sound doesn't begin till the $1-2k point - I don't agree on that point.
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post #29 of 80 Old 11-27-2018, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
I was at the same event as @Class A was, and heard the R11's. They had been taken out of the boxes that very afternoon. Even without break-in, those things came SO CLOSE to what Reference 3's sound like at nearly 3x the price that I was shocked. Incredible detail and presence. The dominated the large room. Of course being powered by nearly $30k of Naim gear may have helped, but since speakers are 95% of what you hear I was not disappointed. I have a new mission planned for the next year...get a pair.
Definitely a lot of speaker for the money. I agree that you don't need a sub w/this speaker. Unlike the title of this thread I guess there's no talking you out of these speakers. Save your pennies.
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post #30 of 80 Old 11-28-2018, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
I was at the same event as @Class A was, and heard the R11's. They had been taken out of the boxes that very afternoon. Even without break-in, those things came SO CLOSE to what Reference 3's sound like at nearly 3x the price that I was shocked. Incredible detail and presence. The dominated the large room. Of course being powered by nearly $30k of Naim gear may have helped, but since speakers are 95% of what you hear I was not disappointed. I have a new mission planned for the next year...get a pair.
I've also listened to R11, and they even come dangerously close to Reference 5. I heard both Ref 5 and R11 in the same room, but was positioned in different directions. Both was driven by Mcintosh, R11 with MC452 and Ref 5 with MC601. They alsmot look like twins, but the Ref 5 is more sophisticated
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