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post #91 of 157 Old 12-01-2018, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by UWbadger91 View Post
New AVR vs returning the speakers? I keep wondering if I just should have gone Emotiva
This.

In general I think that SVS makes good subs but grossly overpriced speakers, cashing in on their brand cachet and using inflated prices (as well as very cleverly chosen model names---"Prime" and "Ultra") to rope people in. Thank god they have a great return policy which they do back up.
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #92 of 157 Old 12-01-2018, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
This.



In general I think that SVS makes good subs but grossly overpriced speakers, cashing in on their brand cachet and using inflated prices (as well as very cleverly chosen model names---"Prime" and "Ultra") to rope people in. Thank god they have a great return policy which they do back up.


Lol so back to it! I mean they sound better than my DCM, but it’s not like ‘wow’. Should I do bookshelves or towers though? I could get the T1 for slightly more than the Prime+stand. I was looking at bookshelf stands and they almost have a larger footprint than towers. Or do you have a recommendation for a good stand? At this point I’m not as sensitive to price.


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post #93 of 157 Old 12-01-2018, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by UWbadger91 View Post
Lol so back to it! I mean they sound better than my DCM, but it’s not like ‘wow’. Should I do bookshelves or towers though? I could get the T1 for slightly more than the Prime+stand. I was looking at bookshelf stands and they almost have a larger footprint than towers. Or do you have a recommendation for a good stand? At this point I’m not as sensitive to price.
Well, Emotiva has just come out with this gob-smacking price-smashing pair of TOWERS that somehow cost the same as the Prime bookshelves WITHOUT the stands:
https://emotiva.com/collections/loud...rmotiv-t0-pair

So if you'd like to be the AVS forum guinea pig and try them out, we'd all be very grateful I'm sure.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #94 of 157 Old 12-01-2018, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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New speaker advice

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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Well, Emotiva has just come out with this gob-smacking price-smashing pair of TOWERS that somehow cost the same as the Prime bookshelves WITHOUT the stands:

https://emotiva.com/collections/loud...rmotiv-t0-pair



So if you'd like to be the AVS forum guinea pig and try them out, we'd all be very grateful I'm sure.


Hmmm I’d be fine with shelling out the cash for the T1 or T2, but I keep thinking I just need bookshelves for my tiny apartment.

My desk is about 1 foot from my tv stand so that’s my only space restriction.


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post #95 of 157 Old 12-01-2018, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by UWbadger91 View Post
Hmmm I’d be fine with shelling out the cash for the T1 or T2, but I keep thinking I just need bookshelves for my tiny apartment. My desk is about 1 foot from my tv stand so that’s my only space restriction.
The T1 is just $200 more than the T-Z, but the T-Z seems more like an extended version of the B1 with an extra second woofer and built-in stands...measure the dimensions of the T1 vs T-Z.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #96 of 157 Old 12-01-2018, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
The T1 is just $200 more than the T-Z, but the T-Z seems more like an extended version of the B1 with an extra second woofer and built-in stands...measure the dimensions of the T1 vs T-Z.


So you’re thinking instead of the B1 + C2 combo to go T-Z + C2 with my PB12-NSD?


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post #97 of 157 Old 12-01-2018, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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So you’re thinking instead of the B1 + C2 combo to go T-Z + C2 with my PB12-NSD?


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And too...is my receiver maybe the issue? A lot of variables going. If I get good speakers now I’d do receiver later. Otherwise I’d need to get cheaper speakers now and get a receiver as well


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post #98 of 157 Old 12-01-2018, 04:44 PM
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So you’re thinking instead of the B1 + C2 combo to go T-Z + C2 with my PB12-NSD?
Well, the B1 + stands = $400 already. Even though Emotiva strangely lists the T-Z as being only 1db more sensitive than the B1 despite having that second woofer, I find it hard to believe that it wouldn't be able to go louder (although probably not as loud as an Ascend 340 or Chane A2.4).

I have always found Emotiva's impedance numbers a bit dubious, so I wouldn't put it past them to underrate the T-z on purpose in order to prevent a massive drop in demand for their T1/T2.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #99 of 157 Old 12-01-2018, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Well, the B1 + stands = $400 already. Even though Emotiva strangely lists the T-Z as being only 1db more sensitive than the B1 despite having that second woofer, I find it hard to believe that it wouldn't be able to go louder (although probably not as loud as an Ascend 340 or Chane A2.4).



I have always found Emotiva's impedance numbers a bit dubious, so I wouldn't put it past them to underrate the T-z on purpose in order to prevent a massive drop in demand for their T1/T2.





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post #100 of 157 Old 12-02-2018, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Well, Emotiva has just come out with this gob-smacking price-smashing pair of TOWERS that somehow cost the same as the Prime bookshelves WITHOUT the stands:
https://emotiva.com/collections/loud...rmotiv-t0-pair

So if you'd like to be the AVS forum guinea pig and try them out, we'd all be very grateful I'm sure.
When are YOU ordering them!

Interesting 2way but sorta kinda 3way tower.

Joins a newish crop of $500/pair towers.

$499 REAR 38x7x11 2.5 way? 5.25" + 6" [48hz] EMOTIVA AIRMOTIV T-ZERO TOWER

$500 REAR 37x7x10 2.5 way 2 X 5.25" [44hz] JBL STAGE A170 TOWER**

$500 BOTTOM 38x11x11 2 way 2 X 5.25" [33hz] POLK SIGNATURE S50 TOWER**

$500 REAR 36x8x10 3 way 6.5" [50hz] WHARFEDALE CRYSTAL 4.3 TOWER

$500 REAR 38x9x12 2 way 7" [44hz] JBL ARENA 170 TOWER**

Geoff A. J., California
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post #101 of 157 Old 12-02-2018, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
I have always found Emotiva's impedance numbers a bit dubious, so I wouldn't put it past them to underrate the T-z on purpose in order to prevent a massive drop in demand for their T1/T2.
Their impedance has been verified by independent testing while their bass extension has not.

T1 (purple) -3 dB @ 56 Hz (37hz claimed), impedance minimum 3.51 ohms @ 114 Hz, (nominal 4ohm claimed)

C1 (green) –3 dB @ 84 Hz, (50hz claimed), impedance minimum 4.18 ohms @ 162 Hz, (nominal 4ohm claimed)

Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...lOecK16liQb.99

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post #102 of 157 Old 12-02-2018, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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New speaker advice

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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Their impedance has been verified by independent testing while their bass extension has not.



T1 (purple) -3 dB @ 56 Hz (37hz claimed), impedance minimum 3.51 ohms @ 114 Hz, (nominal 4ohm claimed)



C1 (green) –3 dB @ 84 Hz, (50hz claimed), impedance minimum 4.18 ohms @ 162 Hz, (nominal 4ohm claimed)



Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...lOecK16liQb.99


So you’d recommend the T-Zero too?

I’ve been doing thinking and basically what I pick up on is that SVS stuff is overpriced as far as speakers, not subs...especially the sub I bought. I’m an accountant so I am ok with shelling out the money but am all about value. I also do not really care to deal with returning speakers all the time. It’s hard to say that though when the best deals are from online direct places.

Prime bookshelf+center+stands = $899

B1+C2+stands = $768

T-Z + C2 = $868

T1+C2= $1,068

3 Chane A2.4 + stands = $1,035.06 ($98 shipping included)

**assuming $100 for stands

Right now I’m at the point where I order stands and roll with the SVS even though I’m not that impressed or I return them, keep the sub and get something else. Thoughts?



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post #103 of 157 Old 12-02-2018, 11:33 AM
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New speaker advice

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Originally Posted by UWbadger91 View Post
So you’d recommend the T-Zero too?

I’ve been doing thinking and basically what I pick up on is that SVS stuff is overpriced as far as speakers, not subs...especially the sub I bought. I’m an accountant so I am ok with shelling out the money but am all about value.

Prime bookshelf+center+stands = $899

B1+C2+stands = $768

T-Z + C2 = $868

T1+C2= $1,068

3 Chane A2.4 + stands = $1,035.06 ($98 shipping included)

**assuming $100 for stands

Thoughts?



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Those are great choices besides the SVS, IMO. But as far as SVS being overpriced, I would go as far enough to say that everything but the NSD and PB/SB1000 by SVS are overpriced. I only say this because competitors provide better speakers/subs at the $500 (Prime Bookshelves) and $800 (PB2000) mark and then everything above. Such as Ascend CMT340’s and HSU VTF3. The Ultra speaker line stands its own, but not the PB/SB16 Ultra however.
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #104 of 157 Old 12-02-2018, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Their impedance has been verified by independent testing while their bass extension has not.

T1 (purple) -3 dB @ 56 Hz (37hz claimed), impedance minimum 3.51 ohms @ 114 Hz, (nominal 4ohm claimed)

C1 (green) –3 dB @ 84 Hz, (50hz claimed), impedance minimum 4.18 ohms @ 162 Hz, (nominal 4ohm claimed)

Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...lOecK16liQb.99
Not a huge fan of that treble rise up to 20kHz. What has the explanation for that been?
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post #105 of 157 Old 12-02-2018, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Those are great choices besides the SVS, IMO. But as far as SVS being overpriced, I would go as far enough to say that everything but the NSD and PB/SB1000 by SVS are overpriced. I only say this because competitors provide better speakers/subs past the at the $500 (Prime Bookshelves) and $800 (PB2000). Such as Ascend CMT340’s and HSU VTF3.


I updated my comment above too. I’m at the point where I either buy stands and keep the SVS speakers even though I’m not totally happy or I return them and get something else. I just don’t want to keep returning stuff because I don’t have time for the goofing around or the desire. Hard to say that when the best deals are from internet only brands though.


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post #106 of 157 Old 12-02-2018, 11:39 AM
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I updated my comment above too. I’m at the point where I either buy stands and keep the SVS speakers even though I’m not totally happy or I return them and get something else. I just don’t want to keep returning stuff because I don’t have time for the goofing around or the desire. Hard to say that when the best deals are from internet only brands though.


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If you aren’t happy that’s probably the easiest way to go about this. Return them. Super simple. You made a slight mistake and got speakers that didn’t fit your needs. It’s a learning experience. Now get back out there and find the next pair.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #107 of 157 Old 12-02-2018, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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If you aren’t happy that’s probably the easiest way to go about this. Return them. Super simple. You made a slight mistake and got speakers that didn’t fit your needs. It’s a learning experience. Now get back out there and find the next pair.


So based on the comments I’m leaning towards Emotiva. Just a question of which option lol. I was very interested in Chane, but their shipping is a killer.


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post #108 of 157 Old 12-02-2018, 11:49 AM
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Right now I’m at the point where I order stands and roll with the SVS even though I’m not that impressed or I return them, keep the sub and get something else. Thoughts?
Keeping them would be profoundly silly.

Accept that you got snookered by clever marketing, send back those suckers but keep the sub, and have fun trying out other speakers.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)

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post #109 of 157 Old 12-02-2018, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Their impedance has been verified by independent testing while their bass extension has not.

T1 (purple) -3 dB @ 56 Hz (37hz claimed), impedance minimum 3.51 ohms @ 114 Hz, (nominal 4ohm claimed)

C1 (green) –3 dB @ 84 Hz, (50hz claimed), impedance minimum 4.18 ohms @ 162 Hz, (nominal 4ohm claimed)

Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...lOecK16liQb.99
Interesting...were these anechoic measurements or done outside maybe? Because in my room, the C1 definitely does sound like it rolls off at or near 50Hz.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #110 of 157 Old 12-02-2018, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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That would be profoundly silly.



Accept that you got snookered by clever marketing, send back those suckers but keep the sub, and have fun trying out other speakers.


As Emotiva’s #1 fan and knowing what I want/need would you think to do the T-Zero, T1 or B1? Based on our discussion yesterday it seems like the T-Zero is similar to the B1 but in tower....only apprehension would be no reviews.


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post #111 of 157 Old 12-02-2018, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Makav3li View Post
Not a huge fan of that treble rise up to 20kHz. What has the explanation for that been?
the explanation i got from a very good source ( a speaker maker ) is that most people don't notice "as offensive" (a paraphrase)...

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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Originally Posted by UWbadger91 View Post
So you’d recommend the T-Zero too?

I’ve been doing thinking and basically what I pick up on is that SVS stuff is overpriced as far as speakers, not subs...especially the sub I bought. I’m an accountant so I am ok with shelling out the money but am all about value. I also do not really care to deal with returning speakers all the time. It’s hard to say that though when the best deals are from online direct places.

Prime bookshelf+center+stands = $899

B1+C2+stands = $768

T-Z + C2 = $868

T1+C2= $1,068

3 Chane A2.4 + stands = $1,035.06 ($98 shipping included)

**assuming $100 for stands

Right now I’m at the point where I order stands and roll with the SVS even though I’m not that impressed or I return them, keep the sub and get something else. Thoughts?



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I'm intrigued by the T Zero but I've learned (the hard way) not to buy the first model out of the gate before independent testing/owner input has been gathered.

In my case it was a motorcycle that took $3000 to fix all the "flaws."

The T1 and Chane are known commodities though so those are safer bets than the brand new T Zeros IMHO

But I am intrigued and think they might be great price/value in the end as they use existing components...though the design stated here is a bit weird.

"The Airmotiv T-Zero features a 32 x 25 mm Airmotiv folded ribbon tweeter, and a pair of 5-1/4” woven fiber drivers. The dual 5-1/4” drivers share the same 2500 Hz electrical crossover frequency. The upper driver is optimized for the critical midrange dispersion, while the lower driver is optimized for low frequency response."
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post #113 of 157 Old 12-02-2018, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by UWbadger91 View Post
As Emotiva’s #1 fan and knowing what I want/need would you think to do the T-Zero, T1 or B1? Based on our discussion yesterday it seems like the T-Zero is similar to the B1 but in tower....only apprehension would be no reviews.
If thrift and adventurousness are strong in you, I'd try out the T-Z.

If $200 isn't a big deal for you, and especially if there is a likelihood of you moving into a bigger space within the next 5 years, I'd go with the T1.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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Originally Posted by UWbadger91 View Post
As Emotiva’s #1 fan and knowing what I want/need would you think to do the T-Zero, T1 or B1? Based on our discussion yesterday it seems like the T-Zero is similar to the B1 but in tower....only apprehension would be no reviews.


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if you have the means .. and a decent amp /avr.. absolutely go for the t1 .. every time.. 3 way x/over has got to be better than 2 way .. now if you don't feel that the investment is very important but rather just a toy , go with whatever you are comfortable spending, but my guess is you wouldn't be "here " asking if that was the case..

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #115 of 157 Old 12-02-2018, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Makav3li View Post
Not a huge fan of that treble rise up to 20kHz. What has the explanation for that been?
Not an issue for Emotiva owners on AVS, likely because nobody has good enough ears to hear much above 15khz....if even that!

AVS is full of old farts who blew out their hearing in their youth!

For me it was hundreds of rock concerts and thousands of motorcycle rides without ear plugs!

Geoff A. J., California
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post #116 of 157 Old 12-02-2018, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Interesting...were these anechoic measurements or done outside maybe? Because in my room, the C1 definitely does sound like it rolls off at or near 50Hz.
Click the link for their whole explanation.

"We publish pseudo-anechoic loudspeaker measurements, another synthetic test that has little to do with real-world conditions.

To be anechoic means to be without echoes or sonic reflections. The pseudo comes into play because neither we nor any entity beyond a few speaker manufacturers and research facilities around the world have a true anechoic chamber designed to fully absorb all of a speaker’s reflections.

Of course, a real-world listening room is far from reflection free, so you’re unlikely to ever hear (or want to hear) loudspeakers under anechoic conditions. However, this is a generally accepted convention for characterizing loudspeakers.

We measure speakers in a very large, open, and high-ceilinged warehouse, so we at least begin in an environment that has few reflective surfaces (and no room boundaries) in the immediate vicinity of the loudspeaker under test.

Nonetheless, some clever gating techniques in our LinearX LMS measurement system keep reflected sounds at bay during testing, which eliminates the effect of the surrounding environment."



Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...KdiFUXbXPpE.99

Geoff A. J., California
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post #117 of 157 Old 12-02-2018, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by UWbadger91 View Post
So based on the comments I’m leaning towards Emotiva. Just a question of which option lol. I was very interested in Chane, but their shipping is a killer.


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Both are great brands, search up “Chane vs Emotiva” and try to find an AVS thread discussing them. Maybe you’ll find the answer you seek. Cannot make a wrong decision here, and you already have a PB12 so you are doing real well.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #118 of 157 Old 12-02-2018, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Both are great brands, search up “Chane vs Emotiva” and try to find an AVS thread discussing them. Maybe you’ll find the answer you seek. Cannot make a wrong decision here, and you already have a PB12 so you are doing real well.


I like the price of the B1+stand best lol. When I get a larger house or apartment could I just throw the B1 in the back and then order towers or am I best getting towers now? Like I said...I’m all about value so I’m ok spending more now if it will come with benefits down the road, etc.


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post #119 of 157 Old 12-02-2018, 12:54 PM
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New speaker advice

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Originally Posted by UWbadger91 View Post
I like the price of the B1+stand best lol. When I get a larger house or apartment could I just throw the B1 in the back and then order towers or am I best getting towers now? Like I said...I’m all about value so I’m ok spending more now if it will come with benefits down the road, etc.


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If you’re all about value, then B1’s are the way to go. Sending them to surrounds and picking up towers later is a great choice. Thats what I did with my old speakers. Value is really subjective just like EVERYTHING audio related but you might enjoy the T1’s more than the B1’s because you can crank them louder. @mpk1970 commented on the T0 thread that above 90dB the B1’s start failing. T1’s should be strong well above that. If you really like cranking your stereo then T1’s might be the way to go. Normal listening, especially with a sub, the B1’s will be okay. 90dB is pretty loud regardless.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)

Last edited by Russdawg1; 12-02-2018 at 07:18 PM.
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post #120 of 157 Old 12-02-2018, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
If you’re all about value, then B1’s are the way to go. Sending them to surrounds and picking up towers later is a great choice. Thats what I did with my old speakers. Value is really subjective just like EVERYTHING audio related but you might enjoy the T1’s more than the B1’s because you can crank them louder. @MPK 1790 commented on the T0 thread that above 90dB the B1’s start failing. T1’s should be strong well above that. If you really like cranking your stereo then T1’s might be the way to go. Normal listening, especially with a sub, the B1’s will be okay. 90dB is pretty loud regardless.
Correction: @mpk1970 was commenting on the T2s. He doesn't own the T1. And by his own admission, he had been drinking too much tequila.

The B1s begin to show signs of strain a bit earlier, maybe around 80db.

However, to the B1s' credit I seldom feel the urge to go much above 70db because they already provide very rich and satisfying detail at that volume. I would expect the T-Z to do the same if not a little better due to the extra woofer, and the T1 to provide another step up in higher-SPL performance.
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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