JBL Arena 130 vs... Ascend Acoustics CMT340SE?!? - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 261 Old 12-05-2018, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post
Just make sure that Mr Placebo is not creeping in your room!☺☺
Well I'd hate for Mr. Placebo to be creeping in my room but he sure is doing a great job of shaking my couch this violently. It's like the Ascends have gotten another woofer or something. Or maybe I've officially passed that non-existent "break in" period. I have no idea what is going on. Time to add more blankets and see if the bass gets even stronger

Edit: Maybe I'll take @gajCA up on his offer and borrow his Umik to see what's going on. It could be a great help to measure if my "room treatments" are even doing something. Something beneficial at least

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post #122 of 261 Old 12-06-2018, 08:49 AM
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Ah yes, of course. I’m guessing you’d want my signature too if I borrowed yours right? It could be your claim to fame

But I may PM you to ask if I could borrow it in the near future to run some sweeps of my “Matias Fullmartyton” subwoofer so I can get some graphs to put on my write up.
No worries as I don't obsess over REW and do endless readings and room changes ad nauseum.

I used it to set up the subs in my secondary room using a MiniDSP which also serves as the crossover for my analog receiver which, thankfully, has pre outs/main ins.

After several trial and errors, dialed the MiniDSP in manually to my satisfaction (as the REW auto EQ never would copy successfully to the MiniDSP), and stuck the mic back in its box.

Have zero desire to connect it to a laptop and measure my main HT room as I like the sound in there just the way it is and am not OCD enough to bother chasing my tail.

Eventually I might use it to dial in the sub in there as it has built in EQ/Parametric Equalizer but couldn't be bothered at the moment as it sounds fine to me.

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post #123 of 261 Old 12-06-2018, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Jakeshields View Post
Floyd Toole doesn't approve since he doesn't love room correction, especially above 200Hz, even though Revel's own studies showed people preferred the sound of a fully room corrected speaker when compared to one that didn't have electronic Room EQ. Sometimes desired principles and results are different
Yeah, I dialed in my subs and back in the box it went.

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post #124 of 261 Old 12-06-2018, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
Well I'd hate for Mr. Placebo to be creeping in my room but he sure is doing a great job of shaking my couch this violently. It's like the Ascends have gotten another woofer or something. Or maybe I've officially passed that non-existent "break in" period. I have no idea what is going on. Time to add more blankets and see if the bass gets even stronger

Edit: Maybe I'll take @gajCA up on his offer and borrow his Umik to see what's going on. It could be a great help to measure if my "room treatments" are even doing something. Something beneficial at least
I predict you will obsess over it unlike me but you are more than welcome to borrow it over the Holidays and return it once school begins again for you.

One guy had a system that sounded lovely to him and then fell in the REW rabbit hole after being told of the wonders of REW on AVS.

Every measurement that said he was getting "better sound" sounded awful to him and the system got progressively worse and worse to his ear.

He eventually stuck it back in its box and never looked back.

I think he buried it in the back yard!
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post #125 of 261 Old 12-06-2018, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
I predict you will obsess over it unlike me but you are more than welcome to borrow it over the Holidays and return it once school begins again for you.

One guy had a system that sounded lovely to him and then fell in the REW rabbit hole after being told of the wonders of REW on AVS.

Every measurement that said he was getting "better sound" sounded awful to him and the system got progressively worse and worse to his ear.

He eventually stuck it back in its box and never looked back.

I think he buried it in the back yard!
stuff like that makes fine targets for my .22...
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post #126 of 261 Old 12-06-2018, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
stuff like that makes fine targets for my .22...
It might have been FalconsFan who went through that roller coaster but I can't recall exactly,

It was HILARIOUS to read though!

He was trying to dial in dual HSU subs IIRC.

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post #127 of 261 Old 12-06-2018, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
It might have been FalconsFan who went through that roller coaster but I can't recall exactly,

It was HILARIOUS to read though!

He was trying to dial in dual HSU subs IIRC.
if the tech is working for you(or anybody).. i have no issues at all , but when i go down that rabbit hole of myth and mystery that we all (on avs) either go down or learn to fight off , i get frustrated quick at the instant diminishing return.. i learned while researching tv's a few years ago that lot's of the stuff talked about on here is sales driven hype/ b.s. ... we get and give good basic info here very often , but i found again when trying to figure out eq tech variance in a recent thread , that it quickly devolves into sales pitches and ego driven ,$$ related , myth and hype .. after you and lone posted good info for me to read, an "expert" got in the mix and started running down the use of old fashion "ear tuning" and extolling software eq as the "only" answer to "perfection"... imo the guy was selling a product passive aggressively (waiting for someone to ask him what the "answer" is to eq,,,,, being a "retail troll" as it were ).. i am going to have to try & find that falconsfan thread and read it.. that sounds like a fun thread..although probably not so much for him..

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #128 of 261 Old 12-06-2018, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
if the tech is working for you(or anybody).. i have no issues at all , but when i go down that rabbit hole of myth and mystery that we all (on avs) either go down or learn to fight off , i get frustrated quick at the instant diminishing return.. i learned while researching tv's a few years ago that lot's of the stuff talked about on here is sales driven hype/ b.s. ... we get and give good basic info here very often , but i found again when trying to figure out eq tech variance in a recent thread , that it quickly devolves into sales pitches and ego driven ,$$ related , myth and hype .. after you and lone posted good info for me to read, an "expert" got in the mix and started running down the use of old fashion "ear tuning" and extolling software eq as the "only" answer to "perfection" imo the guy was selling a product passive aggressively (waiting for someone to ask him what the "answer" is to eq,,,,, being a "retail troll" as it were ).. i am going to have to try & find that falconsfan thread and read it.. that sounds like a fun thread..although probably not so much for him..
I've had good luck with Audyssey's basic EQ in my older Denon and the REW/Minidsp was perfect for my secondary room and I only "learned" what I needed to in order to do what I wanted.

So I just touched the surface of REW and its "potential."

I really didn't delve into ANY of this stuff as my ears told me to leave well enough alone...plus I lack the patience and desire to learn more about this stuff unlike Russdawg.

I guess I'm just a Bronze Eared Caveman!

"Room EQ Wizard, (REW), includes tools for generating audio test signals; measuring SPL and impedance; measuring frequency and impulse responses; measuring distortion; generating phase, group delay and spectral decay plots, waterfalls, spectrograms and energy-time curves; generating real time analyser (RTA) plots; calculating reverberation times; calculating Thiele-Small parameters; determining the frequencies and decay times of modal resonances; displaying equaliser responses and automatically adjusting the settings of parametric equalisers to counter the effects of room modes and adjust responses to match a target curve."

https://www.roomeqwizard.com/
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post #129 of 261 Old 12-06-2018, 10:08 AM
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I've had good luck with Audyssey's basic EQ in my older Denon and the REW/Minidsp was perfect for my secondary room and I only "learned" what I needed to in order to do what I wanted.

So I just touched the surface of REW and its "potential."

I really didn't delve into ANY of this stuff as my ears told me to leave well enough alone...plus I lack the patience and desire to learn more about this stuff unlike Russdawg.

I guess I'm just a Bronze Eared Caveman!

"Room EQ Wizard, (REW), includes tools for generating audio test signals; measuring SPL and impedance; measuring frequency and impulse responses; measuring distortion; generating phase, group delay and spectral decay plots, waterfalls, spectrograms and energy-time curves; generating real time analyser (RTA) plots; calculating reverberation times; calculating Thiele-Small parameters; determining the frequencies and decay times of modal resonances; displaying equaliser responses and automatically adjusting the settings of parametric equalisers to counter the effects of room modes and adjust responses to match a target curve."

https://www.roomeqwizard.com/
the idea that ear eq is inferior to one's own enjoyment than software driven eq is just flat counter intuitive to logical thought.. if you are tuning to your ear is the goal , the ear is easily the best tool, now taking measurements and adjusting make sense as well , but pure software eq? it just doesn't make sense ...you have to "fine tune" almost every eq setting anyway.. i do like software eq (ypao) for level settings (especially the sub)... i guess i am in the tiny minority these days , but i think this hobby needs (monetary) limits for one to enjoy it(otherwise it's just an addiction) , and i too think that i am no golden eared "golden boy", not even close..

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #130 of 261 Old 12-06-2018, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I really didn't delve into ANY of this stuff as my ears told me to leave well enough alone...plus I lack the patience and desire to learn more about this stuff unlike Russdawg.

I think it’s actually my impatience that’s driving this whole thing

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #131 of 261 Old 12-06-2018, 10:14 AM
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the idea that ear eq is inferior to one's own enjoyment than software driven eq is just flat counter intuitive to logical thought.. if you are tuning to your ear is the goal , the ear is easily the best tool, now taking measurements and adjusting make sense as well , but pure software eq? it just doesn't make sense ...you have to "fine tune" almost every eq setting anyway.. i do like software eq (ypao) for level settings (especially the sub)... i guess i am in the tiny minority these days , but i think this hobby needs (monetary) limits for one to enjoy it(otherwise it's just an addiction) , and i too think that i am no golden eared "golden boy", not even close..
Audyssey works fine for me.

You do have to double check that all speakers are set to small and, in my case, bump up the center volume a few db and lower the surround volume a few db, but it works just fine.

My sister in law has a newer Denon with the basic level of Audyssey and unlike mine it set everything correctly though they chose to bump up the sub level a few db so it appears that Audyssey in its basic version has actually improved.

I have no experience with YPAO, but I think auto EQ is a good tool to have available.
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post #132 of 261 Old 12-06-2018, 10:19 AM
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I think it’s actually my impatience that’s driving this whole thing
And that opens the door for OCD
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post #133 of 261 Old 12-06-2018, 10:20 AM
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Audyssey works fine for me.

You do have to double check that all speakers are set to small and, in my case, bump up the center volume a few db and lower the surround volume a few db, but it works just fine.

My sister in law has a newer Denon with the basic level of Audyssey and unlike mine it set everything correctly though they chose to bump up the sub level a few db so it appears that Audyssey in its basic version has actually improved.

I have no experience with YPAO, but I think auto EQ is a good tool to have available.
agreed .. i like the option of software driven eq.. for 2.0/2.1 music though (i should have stipulated this , sorry) i can't imagine the software edition being anywhere near as effective as manual eq.. just my take after a few yrs with modern avr tech..i think it's 100% up to individual taste.. to me there isn't a "wrong" way to do it as long as it works for you...

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #134 of 261 Old 12-06-2018, 10:39 AM
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I used to spend a lot of time measuring and tweaking, and it was fun, but as I've gotten older, I've spent much more time listening than tweaking, and more time on other hobbies.

I'm fairly conservative when it comes to EQ. I use it only for the subs, although I'm intrigued by Dirac Live and wouldn't be opposed to trying it out for higher frequencies if I had it.
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post #135 of 261 Old 12-06-2018, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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I predict you will obsess over it unlike me but you are more than welcome to borrow it over the Holidays and return it once school begins again for you.



One guy had a system that sounded lovely to him and then fell in the REW rabbit hole after being told of the wonders of REW on AVS.



Every measurement that said he was getting "better sound" sounded awful to him and the system got progressively worse and worse to his ear.



He eventually stuck it back in its box and never looked back.



I think he buried it in the back yard!

I would love to borrow it over winter break. I will give that thing a new purpose in life! Hopefully I don’t make it sound worse and worse with every adjustment but I think it’ll just be a great learning experience.

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And that opens the door for OCD

Hey. Shhhhh. I may be OCD but I will nail the authenticity of my reviews this way

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #136 of 261 Old 12-06-2018, 11:11 AM
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I would love to borrow it over winter break. I will give that thing a new purpose in life! Hopefully I don’t make it sound worse and worse with every adjustment but I think it’ll just be a great learning experience.
Just PM me when you are ready to borrow and you can swing by and grab it.

I'd say that I'd let you hear my two systems in action but as my wife is rarely out of the house at the moment, due to a sciatic nerve issue in her leg, that ain't gonna happen!

When I first met her back in the late 70s she had no issue with me blaring music and having people over at the drop of a hat.

Those days are loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong gone!

Thankfully she enjoys movies in 5.1 at medium high volumes so that's my only solace.

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post #137 of 261 Old 12-06-2018, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Just PM me when you are ready to borrow and you can swing by and grab it.



I'd say that I'd let you hear my two systems in action but as my wife is rarely out of the house at the moment, due to a sciatic nerve issue in her leg, that ain't gonna happen!



When I first met her back in the late 70s she had no issue with me blaring music and having people over at the drop of a hat.



Those days are loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong gone!



Thankfully she enjoys movies in 5.1 at medium high volumes so that's my only solace.

Awesome, will do.

I would love to come by and have a listen, always wanting to hear more speakers. If there’s ever a chance, let me know!

My parents and neighbors like to tell me of the “old days” when they first moved to our street (new development at the time) and they thew parties multiple times a week and cranked their music as loud as they could. They had the Cerwins that I just refoamed and some KG2.2’s which have a blown woofer and from what I can only guess

That’s always nice when your SO enjoys stuff that’s in line with what you enjoy. Many people seem to be fighting with their SO on SQ vs Aesthetics. Usually they end up losing to the wife, finding themselves with a sound bar lol!

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #138 of 261 Old 12-06-2018, 02:55 PM
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Great info, thank you so much. It really does help.

Mind explaining why we DONT want flag frequency response? I thought by having a flat frequency response there was zero coloring of the audio.

Great stuff on the “sum” of the different angles. Does this mean when reviewing that I should not be attempting to remove all audio other than the on axis response? Hence the “acoustic blankets”?

By “Ascend” do you mean you are an Engineer at Ascend or are you my favorite engineer, Dave F?
David Fabrikant is the owner and chief designer of Ascend Acoustics.

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post #139 of 261 Old 12-06-2018, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
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David Fabrikant is the owner and chief designer of Ascend Acoustics.

Yea I am on Tapatalk so I saw his signature after I logged on to my computer last night. It only says “Ascend” here. But it says Dave F on the actual AVS Forum. Very cool either way. I’m one the only thread’s he’s commented on this year. Seems like he is pretty reserved otherwise.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #140 of 261 Old 12-06-2018, 03:20 PM
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Yea I am on Tapatalk so I saw his signature after I logged on to my computer last night. It only says “Ascend” here. But it says Dave F on the actual AVS Forum. Very cool either way. I’m one the only thread’s he’s commented on this year. Seems like he is pretty reserved otherwise.
He rarely comments and never loses his cool when the same 2 or 3 posters, for some odd reason, go out of their way to bash his product for no particularly good reason.

I would buy from Ascend without hesitation.
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post #141 of 261 Old 12-06-2018, 03:25 PM
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He rarely comments and never loses his cool when the same 2 or 3 posters, for some odd reason, go out of their way to bash his product for no particularly good reason.

I would buy from Ascend without hesitation.
Ha and I'm the one that alerted him that some clown was knocking his speakers. Dave is beyond a great guy.

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post #142 of 261 Old 12-06-2018, 04:43 PM
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@Ascend or Dave Fabrikant has always been very active here on AVS. In fact, he's been pretty active all year long based on the post history I'm looking at:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/searc...chid=162483452

But, the best option would be to hang out over at Ascend's own forum if you want more personal attention and in depth discussion of Ascend speakers.

And, I also agree that he's always been very unbiased when discussing his and even his competitor's products. I like that guys like him and Dennis Murphy, Floyd Toole, Jon Lane, Tom Vodhanel, etc. are all wiling to correct misconceptions or just answer general questions from the public.

I rocked CBM-170's for many years and they served as my personal reference set during that entire time. They were very hard to unseat and that was based more on my own boredom than any technical shortcomings (of which they have precious few to none.)

I certainly don't agree with most (all?) of @DS-21 's wild generalizations, but I also think that many of his points deserve at least some level-headed discussion, if nothing else, to dispel myths.

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post #143 of 261 Old 12-06-2018, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Ha and I'm the one that alerted him that some clown was knocking his speakers. Dave is beyond a great guy.

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Haha, thank you and I completely agree. Extremely nice and twice as knowledgeable.

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@Ascend or Dave Fabrikant has always been very active here on AVS. In fact, he's been pretty active all year long based on the post history I'm looking at:



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/searc...chid=162483452



But, the best option would be to hang out over at Ascend's own forum if you want more personal attention and in depth discussion of Ascend speakers.



And, I also agree that he's always been very unbiased when discussing his and even his competitor's products. I like that guys like him and Dennis Murphy, Floyd Toole, Jon Lane, Tom Vodhanel, etc. are all wiling to correct misconceptions or just answer general questions from the public.



I rocked CBM-170's for many years and they served as my personal reference set during that entire time. They were very hard to unseat and that was based more on my own boredom than any technical shortcomings (of which they have precious few to none.)



I certainly don't agree with most (all?) of @DS-21 's wild generalizations, but I also think that many of his points deserve at least some level-headed discussion, if nothing else, to dispel myths.

It appears to me that his average post count is 52/year which is once a week. That doesn’t seem extremely active to me but we may have different views on active. And it appears to me he generally only replies on his own Ascend Acoustics thread.

Yea all of those “Heavyweights” you mentioned are quite great people. None go out and advertise their brand endlessly unless it actually fits the bill. Well Floyd Toole doesn’t doesn’t even have to, he’s got plenty of Revel owners here to do that for him :P

I agree with the view on DS-21’s arguments. That’s why I was slightly defending him earlier in the thread, because they were valid points although there was no need to diss the Ascends. I wasn’t here to critique them, I was here to critique the JBL’s. Ascends are indeed next on the chopping block though

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #144 of 261 Old 12-06-2018, 06:12 PM
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It appears to me that his average post count is 52/year which is once a week. That doesn’t seem extremely active to me but we may have different views on active. And it appears to me he generally only replies on his own Ascend Acoustics thread.
I wouldn't say extremely active either which is why I said "pretty." It was really just a general statement and alerting people to the fact the he is very active (and rightfully so) on his own forum for any other Ascend fans that might not be aware and need specific questions answered.
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I wouldn't say extremely active either. It was really just a general statement and alerting people to the fact the he is very active (and rightfully so) on his own forum for any other Ascend fans that might not be aware and need specific questions answered.

Gotcha, understood. I’m still going to use this as my claim to fame however :P

“Dave Fabrikant commented on my AVS Forum review”
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #146 of 261 Old 12-06-2018, 07:55 PM
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Gotcha, understood. I’m still going to use this as my claim to fame however :P

“Dave Fabrikant commented on my AVS Forum review”
As you should! lol.
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I gotta say I’ve never been more excited to await the arrival of a single book and read it whatever I find here will go to improving my reviews. Along with @gajCA letting me borrow his Umik. I’ll hopefully be adding in inroom frequency response measurements.


Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #148 of 261 Old 12-07-2018, 05:34 PM
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I gotta say I’ve never been more excited to await the arrival of a single book and read it
It's probably the single best investment I've made in audio. Congrats.

When you are ready to take the plunge into design and DIY, be sure to check out the diyaudio and parts express forums. Then, order up a kit from madisound, parts express, diysg, etc. and build your first pair.

Then when you are really, really ready design your own "kit" from scratch and get an engineering degree so that you can become a rich and famous lead designer.

Oh, and just try not to forget about us little guys at your future audio shows...
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It's probably the single best investment I've made in audio. Congrats.



When you are ready to take the plunge into design and DIY, be sure to check out the diyaudio and parts express forums. Then, order up a kit from madisound, parts express, diysg, etc. and build your first pair.



Then when you are really, really ready design your own "kit" from scratch and get an engineering degree so that you can become a rich and famous lead designer.



Oh, and just try not to forget about us little guys at your future audio shows...

No one will be forgotten, that’s a given

I actually had a thread on the DIY section where I blasted some quick questions about tower fabrication and crossover design from scratch. Learned a whole bunch in the course of a week. Not exactly ready to do it, but definitely in a prime position.

I actually wanted to possibly put a pair together this winter but with low funds I think I’ll just do another review or possibly an unrelated external test, something that could beneficial to people just starting. I’ll use my friends and neighbors as test subjects and see what I can find. Like Dr. Toole

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #150 of 261 Old 12-07-2018, 06:55 PM
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Oh, and just try not to forget about us little guys at your future audio shows...
Right, because we are still around -- this should keep him busy for awhile, and keep him from getting run-over by a truck.

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