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post #1 of 23 Old 12-08-2018, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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My current setup starts with a pioneer SX-1250 2 - MTX AAL15B speakers and 1 Velodyne VT10122x11 subb room dimension is 10x20 This set up hits hard and i am happy with it but curious about what i mite be missing out on not knowing all the available products on the market. I am thinking about 2 SVS SB-12 as an upgrade and information on how they are to be wired to my receiver. So whats the best bang for my buck or should i just leave it alone. I dont mind going over the top with things.. sometimes it makes it just rite.
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post #2 of 23 Old 12-08-2018, 06:05 PM
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I dont mind going over the top with things.. sometimes it makes it just rite.
Well, if you want to go "over the top" then I'd look here:
https://www.powersoundaudio.com/
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post #3 of 23 Old 12-09-2018, 06:37 AM - Thread Starter
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[quote=Zorba922;57241068]Well, if you want to go "over the top" then I'd look here:


So if it was possible i could not live without a set of S1811 how are these wired to my current receiver. Thanks for your help....
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post #4 of 23 Old 12-09-2018, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I am also using my current set-up for music not for watching movies.. not sure if that matters or not.
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post #5 of 23 Old 12-09-2018, 06:45 AM
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I am also using my current set-up for music not for watching movies.. not sure if that matters or not.
What kind of music do you listen to? What’s your budget? Do you want something hung with a little more bite to the top end or a smoother sound? Tower speakers or bookshelf/monitor size? How far from the wall can you place them? How loud will you listen?
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What kind of music do you listen to? What’s your budget? Do you want something hung with a little more bite to the top end or a smoother sound? Tower speakers or bookshelf/monitor size? How far from the wall can you place them? How loud will you listen?
Rock, country, [email protected], I dont even like to label it.. Anything but classical or opera no disrespect to anyone just cant get with it.. Nothing hung, Maybe my question should be asked as would 2 subbs inline with my MTX speakers be a huge upgrade to my system.? MY first subbs came along a few years back witch is the Velodyne and it was a night and day experience for me. wall placement with the 2 MTX speakers is 1 foot as of now, the subb is up against the wall in my living room area. what are your feeling on my current MTX floor speakers.? Not so crazy about loud as im am with the sound being RICH. Low end is where its at for me. 2 grand budget unless the next step is worth it. Thanks for responding.!
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what are your feeling on my current MTX floor speakers.? Not so crazy about loud as im am with the sound being RICH. Low end is where its at for me. 2 grand budget unless the next step is worth it. Thanks for responding.!
Time for an upgrade on both the receiver and speakers for an ear awaken event -- hard to make recommendations with out knowing your budget
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Budget is listed...
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post #9 of 23 Old 12-09-2018, 12:11 PM
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Budget is listed...
OK -- found it $2000

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post #10 of 23 Old 12-09-2018, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam385s View Post
Rock, country, [email protected], I dont even like to label it.. Anything but classical or opera no disrespect to anyone just cant get with it.. Nothing hung, Maybe my question should be asked as would 2 subbs inline with my MTX speakers be a huge upgrade to my system.? MY first subbs came along a few years back witch is the Velodyne and it was a night and day experience for me. wall placement with the 2 MTX speakers is 1 foot as of now, the subb is up against the wall in my living room area. what are your feeling on my current MTX floor speakers.? Not so crazy about loud as im am with the sound being RICH. Low end is where its at for me. 2 grand budget unless the next step is worth it. Thanks for responding.!
To me it looks like you have an old school stereo receiver with some vintage design speakers as well. Can’t really find any info on the sub.

So rich sound with low-end.... when I think rich sounding I’m thinking PMC, Harbeth, Quad or Kudos & Neat speaker brands. These brands are going to be more difficult to find, esp with that budget. They have a very British sound, not the one often associated with B&W and Monitor Audio. MA is a little richer sounding, B&W I find currently sounds bright. Monitor Audio has pretty decent low-end.
Monitor Audio Silver 300 and maybe a new receiver like the NAD C338 or better the C368, would give you a nice updated system and also allow you to hook up a subwoofer if you feel you need the additional bass response. I think coming from a horn loaded speaker like you have these could be a good speaker to move to.

Crutchfield would be a nice place to shop. They have pretty easy return policies. I’d also ask if they’d provide a discount if you bought both a receiver and speakers and give them your total budget and what you’re considering.

Other brands to consider and they have them would be Dynaudio X34 or Emit 30, Revel F36. Both of these will be more neutral sounding. Soft dome vs metal tweeters just have just different presentations.

FWIW I listen to hip-hop, rock, alt-rock, blues and jazz mostly. I own Dynaudio speakers.
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I am also using my current set-up for music not for watching movies.. not sure if that matters or not.
$2K would get you a very nice 2.0 or 2.1 setup for music that includes a new power source.

Examples:

Pioneer LX501 Class D3 receiver, $600 shipped from Amazon - provides bass management if you ever want to add a subwoofer, plus versatility and expandability if you ever decide to add more speakers
  • Emotiva T2 towers, $1K shipped
  • Chane A5.4 towers, around $900 shipped
  • Q Acoustics Concept 40 towers, $850 shipped
  • Wharfedale Diamond 250, $1K shipped from musicdirect.com

Or if you are a purist and want the simplicity and robustness of a 2 channel integrated amp, this is a hybrid Class D:
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_745C368/NAD-C-368.html
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Add Canton to list -- on sale and sold each
https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ck-each/1.html

Outlaw Stereo receiver, and it will have subwoofer hook-up
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/rr2160.html

Sub cable
https://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-U...ubwoofer+cable

Y-adapter for 2 subs
https://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-U...82286857&psc=1

The Integra with 2 subwoofer outputs
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_164DTM...gra-DTM-6.html

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post #13 of 23 Old 12-09-2018, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Time for an upgrade on both the receiver and speakers for an ear awaken event -- hard to make recommendations with out knowing your budget
Do you have an example or recommendation for a receiver and speakers.? What would i expect to notice from that upgrade.? i would like to see, have, hear a certain level of performance from an upgrade or to me there is no point. Thanks for your response.
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post #14 of 23 Old 12-09-2018, 03:09 PM
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Do you have an example or recommendation for a receiver and speakers.? What would i expect to notice from that upgrade.? i would like to see, have, hear a certain level of performance from an upgrade or to me there is no point. Thanks for your response.
My recommendation is above

I cannot speak for your ears and no disrespect, but I have never enjoyed an MTX speaker yet -- but that does not mean that they are bad. Now with an upgrade you could/should notice a better more defined and refined midrange -- and more air, definition and detail and refined treble -- and tighter and more articulate bass. ... if you are into vintage, then nothing wrong with your receiver -- but modern receivers have better hook-up convenience and easy to hook-up a sub/subs -- is your receiver overall performing good? The Pioneer does have a lot of fans

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post #15 of 23 Old 12-10-2018, 11:12 AM
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Do you have an example or recommendation for a receiver and speakers.? What would i expect to notice from that upgrade.? i would like to see, have, hear a certain level of performance from an upgrade or to me there is no point. Thanks for your response.
As mentioned that is an old school speaker type of design that would have rather distinct voicing relative to any other speaker regularly recommended on AVS.

Klipsch RP towers with free returns at Best Buy would likely have a more refined sound but have zero idea whether you would prefer that or not so I'd start there and return them if not happy within 15 days.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/klipsch...?skuId=6239522

Can't find that Velodyne sub model you listed and I've owned Velodyne subs since 1989 so have zero idea what the specifications are.

The MTX 3 way is described as follows:

The Original Party Speaker
Horn Tweeter
The top end of all AAL speakers produces a greater dispersion while enhancing the accuracy of the high frequency response. This is accomplished with a new 2" x 6" horn tweeter that optimizes performance.

Midbass Driver In Separate Enclosure
To allow for superior vocal reproduction and enhanced, detailed accuracy, the midbass driver features a pulp cone and foam surround mounted in its own internally damped enclosure. This design method acoustically isolates the midbass from the woofer, resulting in a smooth listening spectrum.

Dual 12" Kevlar Woofers
Each AAL Series speaker incorporates a highly efficient woofer designed to reproduce superior lower frequencies. The optimized motor structures, which were designed utilizing Finite Element Analysis (FEA), include high temperature, aluminum voice coil formers.

Rich Oak Speaker Cabinet
AAL speakers continue with traditional aesthetic appeal but offer a fresh appearance with a rich, oak finish with flush baffles and beveled grilles.

FEATURES
Dual 12" Woofers
Single 5.25" Midrange Pulp Cone Driver
2" x 6" Horn Tweeter
MDF Cabinet Construction
Beveled Grille Included
SPECIFICATIONS
Woofer Dual 12"
Frequency Response 38Hz - 22kHz
Sensitivity 93dB
RMS Power (Watts) 300
Peak Power (Watts) 600
Height 38.81"
Width 15.2"
Impedance 8Ω
Depth 15"

Geoff A. J., California
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Still taking all this in ..Thanks for the information. Try this for the Velodyne http://velodyneacoustics.com/pdf/va/...1012Manual.pdf Thanks,
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To me it looks like you have an old school stereo receiver with some vintage design speakers as well. Can’t really find any info on the sub.

So rich sound with low-end.... when I think rich sounding I’m thinking PMC, Harbeth, Quad or Kudos & Neat speaker brands. These brands are going to be more difficult to find, esp with that budget. They have a very British sound, not the one often associated with B&W and Monitor Audio. MA is a little richer sounding, B&W I find currently sounds bright. Monitor Audio has pretty decent low-end.
Monitor Audio Silver 300 and maybe a new receiver like the NAD C338 or better the C368, would give you a nice updated system and also allow you to hook up a subwoofer if you feel you need the additional bass response. I think coming from a horn loaded speaker like you have these could be a good speaker to move to.

Crutchfield would be a nice place to shop. They have pretty easy return policies. I’d also ask if they’d provide a discount if you bought both a receiver and speakers and give them your total budget and what you’re considering.

Other brands to consider and they have them would be Dynaudio X34 or Emit 30, Revel F36. Both of these will be more neutral sounding. Soft dome vs metal tweeters just have just different presentations.

FWIW I listen to hip-hop, rock, alt-rock, blues and jazz mostly. I own Dynaudio speakers.
http://velodyneacoustics.com/pdf/va/...1012Manual.pdf
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Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post
My recommendation is above

I cannot speak for your ears and no disrespect, but I have never enjoyed an MTX speaker yet -- but that does not mean that they are bad. Now with an upgrade you could/should notice a better more defined and refined midrange -- and more air, definition and detail and refined treble -- and tighter and more articulate bass. ... if you are into vintage, then nothing wrong with your receiver -- but modern receivers have better hook-up convenience and easy to hook-up a sub/subs -- is your receiver overall performing good? The Pioneer does have a lot of fans
Yes i would like to keep my receiver and it is healthy.. ANY adapters to run modern subbs.? http://velodyneacoustics.com/pdf/va/...1012Manual.pdf current subb.
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My current setup starts with a pioneer SX-1250 2 - MTX AAL15B speakers and 1 Velodyne VT10122x11 subb room dimension is 10x20 This set up hits hard and i am happy with it but curious about what i mite be missing out on not knowing all the available products on the market. I am thinking about 2 SVS SB-12 as an upgrade and information on how they are to be wired to my receiver. So whats the best bang for my buck or should i just leave it alone. I dont mind going over the top with things.. sometimes it makes it just rite.
http://velodyneacoustics.com/pdf/va/...1012Manual.pdf current subb
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post #20 of 23 Old 12-10-2018, 02:15 PM
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Yes i would like to keep my receiver and it is healthy.. ANY adapters to run modern subbs.? http://velodyneacoustics.com/pdf/va/...1012Manual.pdf current subb.
Not that I know of -- some reading
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.p...eivers.606009/

https://www.courant.com/news/connect...143-story.html

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post #21 of 23 Old 12-11-2018, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam385s View Post
My current setup starts with a pioneer SX-1250 2 - MTX AAL15B speakers and 1 Velodyne VT10122x11 subb room dimension is 10x20 This set up hits hard and i am happy with it but curious about what i mite be missing out on not knowing all the available products on the market. I am thinking about 2 SVS SB-12 as an upgrade and information on how they are to be wired to my receiver. So whats the best bang for my buck or should i just leave it alone. I dont mind going over the top with things.. sometimes it makes it just rite.
OK, your old stereo receiver, (like mine in my secondary room), has pre outs/main ins which is great so you CAN incorporate one or two SB12s as they have left/right line ins, and two sets of stereo outputs; the Line Outs send a full range signal on to an amp, the High Pass send a signal above 80hz on to an amp.

From the manual.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/09...13066406960563

Outputs

There are two sets of output connectors on the STA-400D amplifier of the SB12.

One set (labeled Line Out) is unfiltered and carries the same signal as found on the input connectors.

The set labeled High Pass Out has a high pass filter applied which has a corner frequency of 80Hz and a slope of -12 dB per octave.

The output connectors are typically used to either daisy-chain additional subwoofers with a single, unfiltered output, or as the input to a power amplifier for the Left and Right main channel.


So if using one sub, pre out from the Pioneer to Line In on the SVS, then High Pass Out from the SVS to the Main In on the pioneer.

That way the main speakers only handle above 80hz, the sub handles everything below.

For two SB12s, pre out from the Pioneer to Line In on SVS sub 1, then Line out from sub 1 to Line in on sub 2, then High Pass out from sub 2 to main ins on the Pioneer.

Tune as per instructions in the manual ideally using an SPL meter though can be done by "ear" in a pinch.

So essentially the subs handle the bass management and the receiver only has to handle frequencies above 80hz to the main speakres giving you these numerous advantages:

Win 1. Since you are now not putting in 20 Hertz 80 Hertz into the mains you are not using up the available low frequency cone movement with bass, so the low frequency cone in your main speaker is able to play its higher frequencies (up to it’s crossover point) much more cleanly. You get an apparent 6dB or more dynamic range. You can play your system louder, and also with less compression distortion in the low frequency driver when you are having that Saturday night dance party and you’re playing urban b

Win 2. Since you are not putting bass into that same driver you are not Doppler modulating everything between 80 and 600, or whatever the next crossover point is. This means cleaner mids. By far.

Win 3. You are not sucking current out of your main power amp at low frequencies, so there is more current reserve to play those highs louder.

Win 4. Since the cones are not moving as far at the low frequencies the driver itself is not generating as much back EMF therefore the damping factor and all of its issues are greatly negated. And you do not need to run silver plated cold water pipes to your mains as speaker wires because there is far less current draw by the speakers.

Win 5. Frequencies below 80 are now not causing transient intermodulation distortion with the higher frequencies (and vice versa) in your power amp. Cleaner still.

https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us...udio-Subwoofer

Geoff A. J., California
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OK, your old stereo receiver, (like mine in my secondary room), has pre outs/main ins which is great so you CAN incorporate one or two SB12s as they have left/right line ins, and two sets of stereo outputs; the Line Outs send a full range signal on to an amp, the High Pass send a signal above 80hz on to an amp.

From the manual.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/09...13066406960563

Outputs

There are two sets of output connectors on the STA-400D amplifier of the SB12.

One set (labeled Line Out) is unfiltered and carries the same signal as found on the input connectors.

The set labeled High Pass Out has a high pass filter applied which has a corner frequency of 80Hz and a slope of -12 dB per octave.

The output connectors are typically used to either daisy-chain additional subwoofers with a single, unfiltered output, or as the input to a power amplifier for the Left and Right main channel.


So if using one sub, pre out from the Pioneer to Line In on the SVS, then High Pass Out from the SVS to the Main In on the pioneer.

That way the main speakers only handle above 80hz, the sub handles everything below.

For two SB12s, pre out from the Pioneer to Line In on SVS sub 1, then Line out from sub 1 to Line in on sub 2, then High Pass out from sub 2 to main ins on the Pioneer.

Tune as per instructions in the manual ideally using an SPL meter though can be done by "ear" in a pinch.

So essentially the subs handle the bass management and the receiver only has to handle frequencies above 80hz to the main speakres giving you these numerous advantages:

Win 1. Since you are now not putting in 20 Hertz 80 Hertz into the mains you are not using up the available low frequency cone movement with bass, so the low frequency cone in your main speaker is able to play its higher frequencies (up to it’s crossover point) much more cleanly. You get an apparent 6dB or more dynamic range. You can play your system louder, and also with less compression distortion in the low frequency driver when you are having that Saturday night dance party and you’re playing urban b

Win 2. Since you are not putting bass into that same driver you are not Doppler modulating everything between 80 and 600, or whatever the next crossover point is. This means cleaner mids. By far.

Win 3. You are not sucking current out of your main power amp at low frequencies, so there is more current reserve to play those highs louder.

Win 4. Since the cones are not moving as far at the low frequencies the driver itself is not generating as much back EMF therefore the damping factor and all of its issues are greatly negated. And you do not need to run silver plated cold water pipes to your mains as speaker wires because there is far less current draw by the speakers.

Win 5. Frequencies below 80 are now not causing transient intermodulation distortion with the higher frequencies (and vice versa) in your power amp. Cleaner still.

https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us...udio-Subwoofer
A little dizzy after reading this but i like it.. Great..! Thanks for your time.
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post #23 of 23 Old 12-13-2018, 08:25 AM
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A little dizzy after reading this but i like it.. Great..! Thanks for your time.
That is the simplest solution using a fixed 80hz as the SVS doesn't have a variable high pass out but it should work just fine.

It just means a L/R RCA cable to sub 1, another cable from sub 1 to sub 2 and a third cable from sub 2 back to the Pioneer.

If you wanted you could use a MiniDSP with variable high pass and use REW and a Umik to tune the subs and you'd end up with a "better" setup albeit with added expense for the Umik and MiniDSP but if it were me I'd start with the simples solution first unless you already had a MiniDSP and Umik.

I had to do it that way as my cheap little dual subs lack an internal crossover let alone a high pass out!

Geoff A. J., California
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