$1000 For an Entry Level 2.1/3.1 Setup - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 53 Old 12-18-2018, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
I don't know.....Took about 15-20 minutes total to put on the plugs and is very easy to do. Trying to bare wire the receiver end would taken longer than that with a lot more swearing and frustration.
it can certainly be a pain..but i think you would agree that there *usually* isn't call to do that very often.. i don't use banana plugs either , and i switch out speakers more than most, i guess i might be missing something, but "what you don't know won't drive you ocd" in this case..

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r Dennis Murphy modded emotiva b1's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... infinity alpha 20 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. ascend cbm 170 se... kef q100 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #32 of 53 Old 12-18-2018, 09:02 AM
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Banana plugs for me is more the satisfying CHUNK that they give when they settle in. That’s well worth the 2 minute screw on and $5 for me.
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #33 of 53 Old 12-18-2018, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by p3trol_h3ad View Post
OP, I say skip the banana plugs unless you'll be moving this stuff around a lot (more than once a year). I've never used them and don't miss 'em one bit. In fact, installing them onto the wire takes longer than putting the wire in the speaker.
Just my 2 cents but I used banana plugs on the AVR side and bare wire on the speaker side. Mainly because it can be a HUGE pain trying to feed bare wire into the terminal once you start filling out the back of an AVR.
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post #34 of 53 Old 12-18-2018, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
Banana plugs for me is more the satisfying CHUNK that they give when they settle in. That’s well worth the 2 minute screw on and $5 for me.
I prefer banana plugs -- and it also helps to secure loose strands ..... but as in all things audio, there will be 2 sides for a volleyball game.

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post #35 of 53 Old 12-18-2018, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
it can certainly be a pain..but i think you would agree that there *usually* isn't call to do that very often.. i don't use banana plugs either , and i switch out speakers more than most, i guess i might be missing something, but "what you don't know won't drive you ocd" in this case..
Using bare wire on the speakers is not a pain and quick to do, but on the receiver end where everything is so cramped is another story. My fat fingers barely fit between terminals and stray strands that jam up. To me the banana plugs were well worth the $20 and 20 minutes installation time. Plugging them in took up less than minute and will make things a lot easier when I add an amp or want clean underneath the AVR.

I'm not saying banana plugs are a must have and that everyone should use them, but they do make things a lot easier with less risk of getting an out of phase error.


My apologies to the OP for derailing the thread.
We can get back on track now.
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post #36 of 53 Old 12-18-2018, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post
I prefer banana plugs -- and it also helps to secure loose strands ..... but as in all things audio, there will be 2 sides for a volleyball game.

Not always true if one side cannot return the serve. I should know :P

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #37 of 53 Old 12-18-2018, 10:39 AM
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Read this, then go buy the Elacs.

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/...system-review/
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Reality Based.
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post #38 of 53 Old 12-18-2018, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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No worries about going “off topic.” I ended up not getting plugs anyway. First time ever wiring speakers and it works! I’m not as dumb as I thought I was.

As to what I actually bought, it was the Elacs and the center and a Denon S640H. Total with the wire was $635.

The only speakers I was able to demo at store were the Elacs. The Polk lineup and the Klipsch demos were messed up. Sony was the only other lineup with the bookshelves that cost like $75 (forgot the model name) but I wasn’t too impressed with those.

Salesman was nice enough actually. Actually knew more than I would have given him credit for. I have until Jan 12th to return anything as well for a full refund.

But wiring up the speakers was easy enough, but I knew I’d run into this issue due to the small size of my desk. The center and the AVR is pretty much the only thing I can fit on my desk, so as I expected, I gotta buy some stands. I’m going on vacation for two weeks so I won’t be able to fully test the speakers out, but what I heard so far I loved. I did enough setup to at least see if I wired it up correctly and to see if everything including my sub plays fine, which it does. Do priority number one now is to buy some stands before I get into calibration or anything like that as my room in general is a big old mess now.



I even had the speakers pointed in different directions, but the difference between even a setup like this and the soundbar I had before is a night and day difference.

Thanks to all that have helped so far. I’ll update you guys again when I get a good pair of stands.


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post #39 of 53 Old 12-18-2018, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by FirelanceRZ View Post
Sony was the only other lineup with the bookshelves that cost like $75 (forgot the model name) but I wasn’t too impressed with those.
Of course you weren't, since I'm sure BB just had them set up in 2.0 without a sub. With a sub filling in the low frequencies, I wouldn't be shocked if they actually outperform the ELACs in the mids and highs easily. Their only weakness is that they don't like being pushed above 80db, but if you don't listen that loud it's irrelevant anyhow. Download a free SPL Meter app to your smartphone to figure out what a realistic db level you actually need is. Even at their normal $150/pr price they punch way above their price point, easily competitive with many speakers costing in the $300/pr range.
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #40 of 53 Old 12-18-2018, 03:23 PM
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Of course you weren't, since I'm sure BB just had them set up in 2.0 without a sub. With a sub filling in the low frequencies, I wouldn't be shocked if they actually outperform the ELACs in the mids and highs easily. Their only weakness is that they don't like being pushed above 80db, but if you don't listen that loud it's irrelevant anyhow. Download a free SPL Meter app to your smartphone to figure out what a realistic db level you actually need is. Even at their normal $150/pr price they punch way above their price point, easily competitive with many speakers costing in the $300/pr range.

In regard to the Cores, highs yes... mids, not so sure about that. Cores vs Elacs: Cores have an advantage with being a little brighter/more detailed, but it's not a humongous difference (but this is all subjective, a small difference to me may be huge to someone else). Cores have more 'sparkle', Elacs win with fullness, and to be honest, probably overall how they sound. Most BBs I've gone to have the Cores set up with subs too. Of course it doesn't mean they have everything set up correctly, sub may be on mega-boom, annoying settings. That's Elac 2.0s vs Cores, 1.0s probably very different.

He should have audyssey with that denon I assume. I'd say just wait until he gets stands and let audyssey handle everything, then adjust as needed (maybe turn down dynamic eq and such).
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post #41 of 53 Old 12-18-2018, 04:26 PM
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In regard to the Cores, highs yes... mids, not so sure about that. Cores vs Elacs: Cores have an advantage with being a little brighter/more detailed, but it's not a humongous difference (but this is all subjective, a small difference to me may be huge to someone else). Cores have more 'sparkle', Elacs win with fullness, and to be honest, probably overall how they sound. Most BBs I've gone to have the Cores set up with subs too. Of course it doesn't mean they have everything set up correctly, sub may be on mega-boom, annoying settings. That's Elac 2.0s vs Cores, 1.0s probably very different.

He should have audyssey with that denon I assume. I'd say just wait until he gets stands and let audyssey handle everything, then adjust as needed (maybe turn down dynamic eq and such).
i agree with everything you wrote here, and i still think the cores are a better "value", if you aren't being picky and just getting a slightly better speaker for twice as much.. i a/b'd the cores against the kef q100's .. depending on what you value they are about a toss up imo... and that's a legit decent $300 speaker..edit:after thinking about it for a minute , i think the cores strength is:it does nothing offensive.. think about how hard it is to find a $300 speaker that doesn't have a glaring weakness even in 2.1.. the cores don't suck at anything and sound detailed enough to not be embarrassed by anything near it's price point...
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YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r Dennis Murphy modded emotiva b1's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... infinity alpha 20 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. ascend cbm 170 se... kef q100 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in

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post #42 of 53 Old 12-18-2018, 04:58 PM
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. think about how hard it is to find a $300 speaker that doesn't have a glaring weakness even in 2.1

Ascend CBM170’s...

AA+ Monitors...

I don’t know to be honest, but I just love arguing
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #43 of 53 Old 12-18-2018, 05:11 PM
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Ascend CBM170’s...

AA+ Monitors...

I don’t know to be honest, but I just love arguing
i can tell you firsthand that the cbm 170's (gen 1) have some weaknesses... for one they have audible grain.. more than the cores.. the 170's do many things well though.. i use mine as centers, they are very solid for that purpose...

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r Dennis Murphy modded emotiva b1's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... infinity alpha 20 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. ascend cbm 170 se... kef q100 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #44 of 53 Old 12-18-2018, 05:13 PM
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i can tell you firsthand that the cbm 170's (gen 1) have some weaknesses... for one they have audible grain.. more than the cores.. the 170's do many things well though.. i use mine as centers, they are very solid for that purpose...

Have you gotten around to hearing the SE’s? I’m wondering how much better my 340SE’s are better than the original. Some reviews say it’s a huge improvement, some less so.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #45 of 53 Old 12-18-2018, 05:27 PM
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Have you gotten around to hearing the SE’s? I’m wondering how much better my 340SE’s are better than the original. Some reviews say it’s a huge improvement, some less so.
i haven't heard the se's, i would assume they are pretty darn good..i don't doubt the new gen is much better..

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r Dennis Murphy modded emotiva b1's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... infinity alpha 20 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. ascend cbm 170 se... kef q100 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #46 of 53 Old 12-18-2018, 05:54 PM
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i agree with everything you wrote here, and i still think the cores are a better "value", if you aren't being picky and just getting a slightly better speaker for twice as much.. i a/b'd the cores against the kef q100's .. depending on what you value they are about a toss up imo...
I'd probably give a slight edge to Kefs for HT use, but to be honest, most of the time there wasn't much of a difference. But is that slight edge worth the difference in price? Nah... not really.

I ended up selling my Kefs when I realized either the Cores or Elacs were close enough that there wasn't a big difference for what I want them for. They also sold unusually quickly... I guess I can thank Kef and their crazy retail pricing for that.

If the OP prefers the Elacs over Cores, twice as much is still just a grand total of $75, so no biggie. One thing the Elacs can do that the Cores can't... provide a fuller, richer sound.
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post #47 of 53 Old 12-18-2018, 06:06 PM
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I'd probably give a slight edge to Kefs for HT use, but to be honest, most of the time there wasn't much of a difference. But is that slight edge worth the difference in price? Nah... not really.

I ended up selling my Kefs when I realized either the Cores or Elacs were close enough that there wasn't a big difference for what I want them for. They also sold unusually quickly... I guess I can thank Kef and their crazy retail pricing for that.

If the OP prefers the Elacs over Cores, twice as much is still just a grand total of $75, so no biggie. One thing the Elacs can do that the Cores can't... provide a fuller, richer sound.
from what i have heard of the elac's they are better than the kef's , but even they and all the "audiophile grade" talk we hear about them i can't find a clearly "great" $300 speaker set..the kef q150's are probably nice .. the aa+'s are probably close to the top of the heap.. myself , i am tired of "chasing the ghost" at that price point.. i'm going up a level.. if i don't find a clearly solid "all around speaker" in the sub $1000 level , i am just going to grab another pair of b1's i think..i am going to try the dynaudio emit m10 and if they don't float my boat at the dealer audition it's going to be an all emotiva household

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r Dennis Murphy modded emotiva b1's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... infinity alpha 20 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. ascend cbm 170 se... kef q100 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #48 of 53 Old 12-18-2018, 06:27 PM
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from what i have heard of the elac's they are better than the kef's , but even they and all the "audiophile grade" talk we hear about them i can't find a clearly "great" $300 speaker set..the kef q150's are probably nice .. the aa+'s are probably close to the top of the heap.. myself , i am tired of "chasing the ghost" at that price point.. i'm going up a level.. if i don't find a clearly solid "all around speaker" in the sub $1000 level , i am just going to grab another pair of b1's i think..i am going to try the dynaudio emit m10 and if they don't float my boat at the dealer audition it's going to be an all emotiva household
I'd think Philharmonics would be closest to what you are looking for. Never heard them though, so can't say. As for the new Kefs, it seems like they fixed their forwardness issue, but now they may have gone too far into recessed territory? Kind of weird reading reviews here on them, it's like Kef went the opposite direction and maybe went too far the other way...

Hard to find $300 speakers that are perfect. Even for the Elacs, I wouldn't say they are worth $300 ... but at $150 they are nice.
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post #49 of 53 Old 12-18-2018, 06:33 PM
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I'd think Philharmonics would be closest to what you are looking for. Never heard them though, so can't say. As for the new Kefs, it seems like they fixed their forwardness issue, but now they may have gone too far into recessed territory? Kind of weird reading reviews here on them, it's like Kef went the opposite direction and maybe went too far the other way...

Hard to find $300 speakers that are perfect. Even for the Elacs, I wouldn't say they are worth $300 ... but at $150 they are nice.
the emo b1's are the only speaker at $300 that have enough treble extension and smoothness to get me exited.. i know there are probably a few others , but like i said .. it's "chasing" .. and it , in the long run ends up being more expensive than just finding what you want , getting it and being happy listening..

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r Dennis Murphy modded emotiva b1's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... infinity alpha 20 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. ascend cbm 170 se... kef q100 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #50 of 53 Old 12-19-2018, 11:27 AM
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No worries about going “off topic.” I ended up not getting plugs anyway. First time ever wiring speakers and it works! I’m not as dumb as I thought I was.

As to what I actually bought, it was the Elacs and the center and a Denon S640H. Total with the wire was $635.



Thanks to all that have helped so far. I’ll update you guys again when I get a good pair of stands.

Great job, you did well and many fans of the Elacs on AVS.

For stands look at Sanus at Crutchfield; ideally you want the tweeter on the speaker as close to ear height when listening as possible and if that can't be achieved a slight tilt up will be a big help.

There are also taller adjustable stands too such as these.

https://www.amazon.com/VideoSecu-Adj...%3A16383934011

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post #51 of 53 Old 12-24-2018, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
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First of all, Happy Holidays to all. I shouldn’t really be active as I’m on vacation, but I can’t wait until I get home to fully test the Elacs. I bought 32” Monolith stands for $140 and was quite pleased with them. They are pretty center with my ears, but I did not test the speakers enough to give any review on them.

Also will be returning the AVR once I get home. I saw that the X1400H was the same price as the other Denon I got, so why not? The X1400H is also 7.2 and has Atmos and more bells and whistles, so I’ll be doing that exchange once I get home.

I was doing some reading on the other brands you guys recommends and will definitely try them out. The Kef Q150s and Chane are definitely an option if I don’t like the Elacs and the center.

From the initial testing I did with the Elacs, it kind of sounded like the high end was lacking, but once again I’ll redo the Audyssey settings once I get the AVR in and try them again. I know many people say they like the Elacs for their bass, but wouldn’t that really not matter in my case since I already have a decent sub? Should I be sticking to speakers that perform well in the mid and high ends? Because my room is crazy small, the PB1000 is honestly doing its job beautifully. Very happy I went with it.

That was just some random thoughts/update though.

Cheers!


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post #52 of 53 Old 12-24-2018, 06:46 PM
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Very cool, enjoy your new system

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #53 of 53 Old 12-24-2018, 11:59 PM
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some say budget ~20% -25% for the receiver....that puts you in refurb denon 730H territory ( currently 199). that leaves 800 for L,R or LCR, leaves a lot of room for some quality speakers - ascend, chane, emotiva, Hsu research, RSL NHT, RBH, philharmonicaudio


FWIW... spend a little more and get a decent mid-level refurb receiver from A4L - one with pre-outs and premium room correction. That will chew up about 1/2 your budget. I think you'll learn more and have a unit that can grow with you. check out the wavecrest HVL-1 at ascend acoustics, on sale for [email protected] the are front ported and will allow you some placement flexibility in your current room, you can move them to surround duty when you get your own place. or spend closer to the max budget with CBM 170's .

or maybe better yet, are the NHT Super 1 at 105 @ on amazon. add another for a center or the super center 2.1 @ 155. The reason I think the NHT might be a better bet for now is that they are sealed and have mounting screw post built in. this will give you maximum flexibility for placement, no matter where your next place will be.
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