How to Choose a Loudspeaker -- What the Science Shows - Page 181 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5401 of 5474 Old 11-25-2019, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by CFP View Post
Ah I was very surprised at how similar to two speakers sounded. I did as you suggested and listened first, with measurements after. I've actually created a new thread to track the comparison here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...l#post58870034
I looked at the Kali measurements after I had acclimated myself to the speakers. I assume their measurements are anechoic, whatever a 'hemi-anechoic' is (a chamber power by Chrysler?) https://www.kaliaudio.com/lone-pine-detail , but in room, I don't know if they're just plain too hot or its going back to a small surface area tweeter that's causing me to duck. Kali claims very low THD, which for what it's worth, is confirm by my simple measurements. In room in my FR measurements, I'd prefer two or three db more roll off up top. At my age the last thing I should have to worry about is a little too much up high. I think I may have mentioned it, but there is some sibilance on female vocals. The speaker is however, very free of any other audible distortion. Still a great deal for powered speakers for $300.
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post #5402 of 5474 Old 11-25-2019, 11:24 AM
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This week is good for me. I'm off work all week.
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I have Friday off.
Friday is fine by me. I'm sure as hell NOT going to the mall.
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post #5403 of 5474 Old 11-25-2019, 06:02 PM
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Moved them to my office now, and in a smaller room, quite strong bass for a 6 1/2" woofer. Really no need for a sub unless you're really into hop hip. Need to be a few feet out from that front wall to image, but that's not really any different from anything else.

I think definitely the bargain of 2020.
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post #5404 of 5474 Old 11-26-2019, 09:06 AM
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Boom Bap Hip Hop and instrumental beats are ALL I listen to.

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post #5405 of 5474 Old 11-26-2019, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by BP1Fanatic View Post
Boom Bap Hip Hop and instrumental beats are ALL I listen to.
I listen to classical, pipe organ, piano and northern European jazz. Also, unamplified bass, double bass, contra bass.

If I listened to hop hip the neighbors would call the police. Actually the ESLs do quite well on electronica. .
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post #5406 of 5474 Old 11-26-2019, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
I listen to classical, pipe organ, piano and northern European jazz. Also, unamplified bass, double bass, contra bass.

If I listened to hop hip the neighbors would call the police. Actually the ESLs do quite well on electronica. .
Living in New Albany, I believe it
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post #5407 of 5474 Old 11-26-2019, 03:51 PM
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Living in New Albany, I believe it
There's no more hop hippy area in C-bus than New Albany. While all my neighbors are pining for Tommy Dorsey.
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post #5408 of 5474 Old 11-27-2019, 09:47 AM
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LMAO! That's why I only play instrumentals when in the garage or in the yard.

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post #5409 of 5474 Old 11-27-2019, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
I listen to classical, pipe organ, piano and northern European jazz. Also, unamplified bass, double bass, contra bass.
Most of the best boom bap beats are sampled from those genres of music!

As a matter of fact, I was checking out the Melting Pot album on whosampled.com.

https://www.whosampled.com/news/2019...mphis-masters/

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post #5410 of 5474 Old 11-27-2019, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BP1Fanatic View Post
Most of the best boom bap beats are sampled from those genres of music!

As a matter of fact, I was checking out the Melting Pot album on whosampled.com.

https://www.whosampled.com/news/2019...mphis-masters/
"boom bap beats"

This ^^^ is what I try to avoid.

I do very much like blues such as Bobby Rush, John Lee Hooker, etc.

And since I have it on right now, lots of Cape Verde

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post #5411 of 5474 Old 11-27-2019, 12:17 PM
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What’s the best measured speaker out there?
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post #5412 of 5474 Old 11-27-2019, 01:43 PM
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According to this thread, anything JBL, Revel, Harman Karman related...
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post #5413 of 5474 Old 11-27-2019, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
I think definitely the bargain of 2020.
You mean 2018?

The JBL 306P Mk2 may edge them out at only $275/pair.

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post #5414 of 5474 Old 11-27-2019, 07:13 PM
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You mean 2018?

The JBL 306P Mk2 may edge them out at only $275/pair.
I don't know. I sure didn't like the 308s much. I didn't know they came out in 2018. I thought it was early this year (2019)
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post #5415 of 5474 Old 12-05-2019, 09:51 PM
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Any measurements for the new ELAC Reference line?
I heard the small bookshelf at RMAF and like the sound.

Noticed they’re now available in a couple of catalogs I’ve received recently.
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post #5416 of 5474 Old 12-13-2019, 09:14 PM
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Man,. It is quite here...

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post #5417 of 5474 Old 12-13-2019, 09:45 PM
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Man,. It is quite here...

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quite true.
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post #5418 of 5474 Old 12-14-2019, 11:08 AM
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Yeah it is!

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post #5419 of 5474 Old 12-14-2019, 02:28 PM
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Man,. It is quite here...

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quite true.
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Yeah it is!
I'll try to get things rolling...

Any comments/opinions on how the new Dynaudio Core 59 might compare to the JBL 708P?

Link to the Core 59: https://www.dynaudio.com/professiona...o/core/core-59
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post #5420 of 5474 Old 12-14-2019, 03:36 PM
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I like how the mid and tweeter can be rotated! I prefer the sound of a compression horn driver though. Dynaudio make great car stereo speakers. My son has the original Dynaudio speakers in his 2001 Volvo S60. My wife's 2016 S60 has a Harman Karman system. My 2000 Toyota Solara has a JBL system, though 1 of the 6x9's is blown. I will admit I have 2 pairs of Infinity 2 ohm 6.5" component sets for my next F150.

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post #5421 of 5474 Old 12-14-2019, 05:52 PM
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Hey Guys,

I am a big fan of this thread and have been following it for a long time. Infact, this thread has really changed my stubborn audiophile opinion of what a good speaker is and how to evaluate a speaker.

I wanted to respectfully ask the smart minds here to help me compare two KEF speakers and their respective spinorama's for me. It seems online most people tend to prefer the Blade 2's, but the spinorama seems to suggest some pretty strong resonances at 400 hz and 4khz. On the other hand, to me the Ref 3 series seems to have some very smooth off axis response with maybe some small resonances at 3khz and 5khz.

What does the data really suggest?

Blade 2
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/in...=77&Itemid=153

Reference 3
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/in...=77&Itemid=153

thanks!
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post #5422 of 5474 Old 12-14-2019, 08:12 PM
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Hey Guys,



I am a big fan of this thread and have been following it for a long time. Infact, this thread has really changed my stubborn audiophile opinion of what a good speaker is and how to evaluate a speaker.



I wanted to respectfully ask the smart minds here to help me compare two KEF speakers and their respective spinorama's for me. It seems online most people tend to prefer the Blade 2's, but the spinorama seems to suggest some pretty strong resonances at 400 hz and 4khz. On the other hand, to me the Ref 3 series seems to have some very smooth off axis response with maybe some small resonances at 3khz and 5khz.



What does the data really suggest?



Blade 2

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/in...=77&Itemid=153



Reference 3

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/in...=77&Itemid=153



thanks!


Those are not resonances. Rather, they are the interactions between drivers far off axis.


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post #5423 of 5474 Old 12-15-2019, 08:30 AM
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Those are not resonances. Rather, they are the interactions between drivers far off axis.


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That is interesting to me. Are these interactions problematic? My presumption is that these dips would manifest themselves in the sound power curve, and subsequently lead to a less smooth response.

Is there a chapter in Toole's book or lecture that talks about this scenario?
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post #5424 of 5474 Old 12-15-2019, 09:23 AM
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From my experience (which is limited), all speakers have those off-axis cancellations due the physical interactions of the drivers (excepting coaxials), and most people say they can't be heard under normal listening.

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post #5425 of 5474 Old 12-15-2019, 01:39 PM
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To Mr Toole,
after reading all this thread, I bought the book. I am at section 4.2. Thnanks for all in it!!

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post #5426 of 5474 Old 12-16-2019, 07:09 PM
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From my experience (which is limited), all speakers have those off-axis cancellations due the physical interactions of the drivers (excepting coaxials), and most people say they can't be heard under normal listening.
Yeah but most speakers have driver cancellations off-axis vertically, not horizontally, because usually drivers are arranged vertically. As researched by Dr. Toole and discussed earlier in this thread, I believe these vertical cancellations aren't too offensive because people don't usually listen to speakers that far off-axis vertically and reflections off of vertical surfaces aren't as loud as horizontal reflections.

Those 60 and 75 degree off-axis plots for the Blade 2 look horrible around 400Hz. Wouldn't be surprised if those cancellations are audible.
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post #5427 of 5474 Old 12-16-2019, 07:38 PM
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Yeah but most speakers have driver cancellations off-axis vertically, not horizontally, because usually drivers are arranged vertically. As researched by Dr. Toole and discussed earlier in this thread, I believe these vertical cancellations aren't too offensive because people don't usually listen to speakers that far off-axis vertically and reflections off of vertical surfaces aren't as loud as horizontal reflections.



Those 60 and 75 degree off-axis plots for the Blade 2 look horrible around 400Hz. Wouldn't be surprised if those cancellations are audible.


The Blade measures that way in part because of the four woofers on the sides of the enclosure. Similar cancelations occur on many speakers when measured significantly above or below the usual listener position.


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post #5428 of 5474 Old 12-17-2019, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
You mean 2018?

The JBL 306P Mk2 may edge them out at only $275/pair.
306p reportedly have a dip at 1.5khz
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post #5429 of 5474 Old 12-17-2019, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrahman View Post
Hey Guys,

I am a big fan of this thread and have been following it for a long time. Infact, this thread has really changed my stubborn audiophile opinion of what a good speaker is and how to evaluate a speaker.

I wanted to respectfully ask the smart minds here to help me compare two KEF speakers and their respective spinorama's for me. It seems online most people tend to prefer the Blade 2's, but the spinorama seems to suggest some pretty strong resonances at 400 hz and 4khz. On the other hand, to me the Ref 3 series seems to have some very smooth off axis response with maybe some small resonances at 3khz and 5khz.

What does the data really suggest?

Blade 2
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/in...=77&Itemid=153

Reference 3
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/in...=77&Itemid=153

thanks!
These aren't spinoramas, and it looks like you're talking about dips in response. Resonances are bumps.
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post #5430 of 5474 Old 12-17-2019, 02:18 PM
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The Blade measures that way in part because of the four woofers on the sides of the enclosure. Similar cancelations occur on many speakers when measured significantly above or below the usual listener position. ...
Yes, exactly, like I said, cancellations on the vertical axis are less offensive than cancellations on the horizontal axis. Dr. Toole has written about this and it has already been discussed in this thread. So putting the woofers on the side is a mistake. It looks awesome but they're making the speakers sound worse.
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