Originally Posted by avkv
Kudos for your listening. You might find the attached Klipsch Spinorama of interest. As you can see, aside from very poor balance and a lack of smoothness, it also exhibits resonance issues.
Thanks for posting the spin, it helps to see what I didn't like about those speakers.
I have a question for you, or for any other Revel F36 owner: do the Revel F36s have a wide or narrow dispersion? One thing I like is a nice wide soundstage. I love it when I hear music floating back and forth between a pair of speakers and even outside the pair. The speakers I have at home do this decently with well recorded music. The reason I ask is that I had a chance to listen to F35s at one store this past weekend, and F36s and M16s at another store. All three sounded wonderful and I really enjoyed their sound, but one thing I noticed was a complete lack of soundstage. I spent about two hours listening to the F36s and I always felt like I was listening "to the speakers". They produce a nice phantom centre image but there wasn't a whole lot moving around, and never once anything "to the outside" - this was with music I have a nice soundstage with at home. We even moved the F36s from the cathedral area (literally, the store used to be a church) to one of the rooms, and same thing - sounded great, no soundstage to talk of. I listened to vinyl and cd's through some extremely expensive gear. Now to be fair, I also listened to Monitor Audio and Totem towers in the same price range, as well as various other speakers, and didn't notice much of a soundstage with them either so I suspect it was the rooms I was listening in. For contrast, I listened to a pair of Dynaudio M10s and the soundstage was amazing! When they were first turned on I was taken back; I looked around the room to see where the sound was coming from, as the speakers and room completely disappeared and the sound was coming from "everywhere". I could swear the guy was playing guitar and singing right in front of me! I listened to several songs and a big soundstage was always apparent. There were other things I didn't like about the speakers but man did I like that soundstage! With all the speakers I listened to, I kept coming back to the Revels, but the lack of soundstage stopped me from buying them. If they threw up a soundstage like the little bookshelves, I'd have bought them on the spot, no hesitations. Should they give a big soundstage? Were they just not set up in the rooms well? Because that's one thing I won't sacrifice for new speakers, even if they do sound so wonderful.
Originally Posted by steven59
I spend most of the winter enjoying stereo at home and at the shops and to scale I think poorly designed speakers will distort scale, like roger waters 'amused to death' album idk what they do with phase to make the sound come from all over the room, but it's surely special effects and I've had different speakers reproduce that recording differently while everything else being equal the speakers replay most other music more alike than different. Axpona was an excellent example of 4 floors of speakers jammed into the same size room all sounding more alike than different in terms of scale. I would expect direct radiating speakers to scale alike if placed the same in the same room as much as I would expect omni's and panels to sound different because like the amused to death recording they are designed to do what they're doing.
Amused To Death was recorded using QSound. You can read more about it here:
Originally Posted by craig john
Until the potential for bias is removed, (i.e., by larger, more statistically powerful testing, preferably performed by independent testers), I will continue to view the Harman preference testing as subjective and inconclusive. That doesn't mean its wrong. It just means I don't have full confidence that it is complete and correct science.
It seems strange to me that it has been pointed out to you many times that the science Harman is using is science that was pioneered and studied in independent labs 20+ years before Harman started to apply it, science that has been peer reviewed and verified and turned into ANSI standards, yet you refuse to acknowledge it. Of course, if you did, it would ruin your story. I get it, sometime people don't want to acknowledge the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed. But willful ignorance makes it difficult to have an intelligent conversation.
Originally Posted by drewTT
How is detail retrieval measured? Separation of instruments? These things are pretty easy to hear among different speakers.
Originally Posted by Scotth3886
And it appears that the easiest to hear are the most difficult to measure. Several folks in the know have said that there aren't metrics to measure, although there are factors that can be measured that lead to more or less.
I asked this early in this thread. The answer I got back was the flatter the response and the less the cabinet resonances ( not adding colour), the more detail and clarity (separation of instruments) one hears. It's not all that difficult to hear OR measure in the real world.
Scott, glad to see you on the Deadmau5 train!
Been to see him live a few times, one of my favourite performers!