Originally Posted by Gooddoc
The others were observations and innuendo. The one I quoted was outright incorrect.
If you're going to impugn someones motives, or suggest that because a company developed something it somehow makes it invalid, then back it up with facts and evidence. I don't see any.
Ok, now you're on to something! Motive:
This is their BUSINESS. They use it to make money.
I'm a Revel/Harman Luxury dealer and have been for over 5 years. I like and use a lot of their products. Besides being an integrator myself, I also do consulting and design projects for several A/V integration companies. Part of that is suggesting and helping them attain lines/brands to help their business - I have brought 2 dealers into the Harman/Revel/JBL sphere of products. I design projects with it for them all the time and have no problems with the speakers - but I also have other things to compare them to in the real world, which is why this study is a little funny to me.
^ I have NO AX TO GRIND with them other than they deleted reps to save money and now their ordering process is trash, but that has nothing to do with how their speakers sound. I'm still a big fan of practicality and reality....
Harman Luxury Group - which Revel, JBL Synthesis, etc. is a part of - took a $499 OPPO BDP-83 DVD player, re-skinned it, and called it their own under the Lexicon brand adding $3,000 to the price tag.
^ This stuff goes on in the A/V industry. No question. It's unethical and it's shady. While the guys at Revel didn't directly do the above, they're part of the larger business, which carries a pretty big black eye from an integrity stand point, IMO.
Revel itself has re-skinned other products as well, leaving them virtually untouched other than slight superficial changes that have little to no influence on performance. These products get all of the benefits of the "Revel" marketing (read "We have science on our side, so it's better"), correct? They get higher price tags on them because of the rebadged "Revel", correct? But, they are essentially the same thing.
Here's one just off the top of my head...
For all intents & purposes, virtually the exact same speaker as
MSRP was $499/ea
There is a massive difference in weight with the Infinity speaker being much heavier (neodymium magnets, perhaps?), but the driver sizes are the same (MCD nomenclature vs CMMD). The size of the unit is virtually the same with the minor tweak for the modern magnetic grill. Essentially, they are the same thing. Only one is "Revel" and now 50% more. Does anyone actually believe any amount of time was spent making this speaker a "Revel"?
^ I think it makes good business sense for Harman to not throw away good models like the speaker above. I really do - part of my 19 year career in A/V was as a business development manager for an OEM. However, everything under the Revel name also benefits from their marketing. Part of that marketing approach is "preaching from the mountain". From different angles, it comes across as disingenuous.
- The reply to MMiles (reay interesting) question, which didn't actually answer him, BTW, was a total attempt to debate from a position of authority - which is nonsense. "We study this and wrote books" does not actually answer his question regarding the study and other manufacturers. It attempts to talk down from the mountain. The then terse, snarky "Yes" reply when Mmiles followed up rang out as a defeated answer.
Yes, I discuss my experiences as a dealer and someone who works with a lot of different products and manufactures. I do so only to give a point of reference from which I answer people... BUT I STILL DIRECTLY ANSWER THEM. I don't say "I've been an A/V professional for 19 years so, trust me, I just know". Or, "Google it. I won't bother to post links." Who here would be satisfied with that?