How to Choose a Loudspeaker -- What the Science Shows - Page 83 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2461 of 5319 Old 03-17-2019, 05:34 PM
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Ask Kal what his occupation has been for the 3 or 4 decades. Being a reviewer for Stereophile was a hobby, not an occupation.


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Nice hobby. Not sure his occupation but know what he’s known best for.
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post #2462 of 5319 Old 03-17-2019, 05:51 PM
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Nice hobby. Not sure his occupation but know what he’s known best for.
"known for" likely depends on the audience.
Presumably neuroscientists know him for his 50 years of work in that field.

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post #2463 of 5319 Old 03-17-2019, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post
"known for" likely depends on the audience.
Presumably neuroscientists know him for his 50 years of work in that field.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kalman-rubinson-89b50111/

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post #2464 of 5319 Old 03-17-2019, 09:31 PM
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Discussing how Room Correction might have a role in choosing loudspeakers is relevant.
It might be off the topic of this thread, but I'd like to add to the subject of evaluating loudspeaker quality in the presence of "EQ". I do not care if the EQ is aimed at tuning the room or the speakers (as if they are separable ), but the speaker evaluation of interest to me removes bass from the equation through the use of subs and bass management. It also removes speaker voicing from the equation insofar as I will apply generally broadband shelf/PEQ to achieve the tonal balance I like. IOW, I'd prefer to evaluate speakers exactly the way they will be used (in my house).
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post #2465 of 5319 Old 03-18-2019, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
It might be off the topic of this thread, but I'd like to add to the subject of evaluating loudspeaker quality in the presence of "EQ". I do not care if the EQ is aimed at tuning the room or the speakers (as if they are separable ), but the speaker evaluation of interest to me removes bass from the equation through the use of subs and bass management. It also removes speaker voicing from the equation insofar as I will apply generally broadband shelf/PEQ to achieve the tonal balance I like. IOW, I'd prefer to evaluate speakers exactly the way they will be used (in my house).
Left speaker mono, right?
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post #2466 of 5319 Old 03-18-2019, 06:52 AM
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I recently tested a couple speakers blind for two people using the left speaker mono in the center position. It was behind my acoustically transparent screen so they had no idea what was playing. I received the same results as when using the speakers as a center and listening to dolby surround music. The center channel is louder than the others and you can really pick up on it's characteristics. I was just happy the results were the same so I could just swap out centers to test. Anyways, just my experience in my room. I do believe the science as my favorite speaker in my room always follows the Harmon curve.

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post #2467 of 5319 Old 03-18-2019, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
It might be off the topic of this thread, but I'd like to add to the subject of evaluating loudspeaker quality in the presence of "EQ". I do not care if the EQ is aimed at tuning the room or the speakers (as if they are separable ), but the speaker evaluation of interest to me removes bass from the equation through the use of subs and bass management. It also removes speaker voicing from the equation insofar as I will apply generally broadband shelf/PEQ to achieve the tonal balance I like. IOW, I'd prefer to evaluate speakers exactly the way they will be used (in my house).


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Last edited by SouthernCA; 03-18-2019 at 08:43 AM. Reason: Off topic
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post #2468 of 5319 Old 03-18-2019, 08:26 AM
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I need a bit of help. For people who have evaluated both YPAO RSC and Audyssey XT32, I would like to hear your opinion on how well YPAO R.S.C. works as compared to Audyssey XT32. I am helping someone decide and don't have any first hand experience on either of them. Thank you in advance. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Any reason you are not considering Dirac?

I wonder if someone should start a new thread for all of this RC discussion. It does seem like it is a bit off topic to this thread IMO. Title of thread is not "Let's talk about room correction".

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post #2469 of 5319 Old 03-18-2019, 08:41 AM
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Any reason you are not considering Dirac?

I wonder if someone should start a new thread for all of this RC discussion. It does seem like it is a bit off topic to this thread IMO. Title of thread is not "Let's talk about room correction".
The person who I am helping is only considering two AVRs, one with Ypao RSC and the other with Audyssey xt 32.

And agreed this is off topic for this thread. I will remove the post.

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post #2470 of 5319 Old 03-18-2019, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
It might be off the topic of this thread, but I'd like to add to the subject of evaluating loudspeaker quality in the presence of "EQ". I do not care if the EQ is aimed at tuning the room or the speakers (as if they are separable ), but the speaker evaluation of interest to me removes bass from the equation through the use of subs and bass management. It also removes speaker voicing from the equation insofar as I will apply generally broadband shelf/PEQ to achieve the tonal balance I like. IOW, I'd prefer to evaluate speakers exactly the way they will be used (in my house).
Do it whatever way you want. It's your money .
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post #2471 of 5319 Old 03-18-2019, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post

I wonder if someone should start a new thread for all of this RC discussion. It does seem like it is a bit off topic to this thread IMO. Title of thread is not "Let's talk about room correction".
Unfortunately, the original intent of this thread was never executed by the thread starter. As a result, it's been meandering and unfocused. Perhaps it should be closed and restarted when a reasonable amount of speaker data is ready to be presented and discussed.
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post #2472 of 5319 Old 03-18-2019, 09:50 AM
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Would love to hear about headphone research by Sean and others.

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The blog has gone quiet for awhile now, but Sean was posting about headphones a year ago

http://seanolive.blogspot.com/

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post #2473 of 5319 Old 03-18-2019, 01:58 PM
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Unfortunately, the original intent of this thread was never executed by the thread starter. As a result, it's been meandering and unfocused. Perhaps it should be closed and restarted when a reasonable amount of speaker data is ready to be presented and discussed.
I must say I don't agree at all. There are many comments about related topics, but Kevin Voecks has published several new Spinoramas just this month and there are some more published by others.

And this thread inspired a whole new blog to collect the data into one place:
https://speakerdata2034.blogspot.com...ata-index.html
Right now there are over 100 Spinoramas available for various speakers.
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post #2474 of 5319 Old 03-18-2019, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
I wonder if someone should start a new thread for all of this RC discussion. It does seem like it is a bit off topic to this thread IMO. Title of thread is not "Let's talk about room correction".
Or....the small number who are driving the RC dialogue could choose to stop.
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post #2475 of 5319 Old 03-18-2019, 02:54 PM
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I must say I don't agree at all. There are many comments about related topics, but Kevin Voecks has published several new Spinoramas just this month and there are some more published by others.

And this thread inspired a whole new blog to collect the data into one place:
https://speakerdata2034.blogspot.com...ata-index.html
Right now there are over 100 Spinoramas available for various speakers.
I'm glad to see the blog of measurements, but it's not part of this thread or its discussion.

But hey, maybe we'll get some more music suggestions. Or more discussion impugning the work of the thread contributors. Can't wait .
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post #2476 of 5319 Old 03-18-2019, 03:07 PM
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Or....the small number who are driving the RC dialogue could choose to stop.
Small Number has a membership to AES, let's hope there are no studies that include Triad speakers...
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Talking

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Originally Posted by SDX-LV View Post
And this thread inspired a whole new blog to collect the data into one place:
https://speakerdata2034.blogspot.com...ata-index.html
Right now there are over 100 Spinoramas available for various speakers.

Lol, "Likely too cheap product to disclose the Spinorama!"

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"But hey, maybe we'll get some more music suggestions."

So sorry to have been awol today.

https://tidal.com/album/102836518

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...PxiGgXDcPBYZw8


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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
"But hey, maybe we'll get some more music suggestions."

So sorry to have been awol today.

https://tidal.com/album/102836518

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...PxiGgXDcPBYZw8

https://youtu.be/zdQgPFURWy0
Thank you
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post #2480 of 5319 Old 03-18-2019, 05:05 PM
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Thank you

You're welcome!
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post #2481 of 5319 Old 03-18-2019, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SDX-LV View Post
I must say I don't agree at all. There are many comments about related topics, but Kevin Voecks has published several new Spinoramas just this month and there are some more published by others.

And this thread inspired a whole new blog to collect the data into one place:
https://speakerdata2034.blogspot.com...ata-index.html
Right now there are over 100 Spinoramas available for various speakers.
So...its only the data obtained from manufacturers?

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post #2482 of 5319 Old 03-18-2019, 08:36 PM
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Small Number has a membership to AES, let's hope there are no studies that include Triad speakers...
Lol
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post #2483 of 5319 Old 03-18-2019, 09:28 PM
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I'm almost exclusively using Tidal so now I'm officially a 'streamer'. Never thought it would happen to me. Tidal has a bunch of really obscure European jazzy type fusion to almost Avant Garde, but I also have dance house, dub step, Jamaican dub, etc.



What I'm doing is building my demo list for AXPONA and my goal is not only superb unusual sound plus imaging tricks and to get anyone else in the room to go "WTF was that".
I did not think that the discussion about room correction (actually it is sound wave correction) to correct for speaker and room artifacts was off topic at all.

This long discussion about Tidal could be off topic.

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post #2484 of 5319 Old 03-19-2019, 09:42 AM
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So...its only the data obtained from manufacturers?
No. Still anechoic 360deg data is hard to find and manufacturers are most likely to have such data. Plus right now the focus is on Spinorama format which limits the data sources much more.

If you can convert the raw data yourself of help to convince these guys to produce Spinorama plots out of their independent data then you can get independent data on KEF LS50, the best-ever Genelec speaker and a bunch of other speakers.

If you can convince these guys to share their raw data (or directly publish the data in Spinorama format) then you can get independent data on the same Genelec model, JBL M2, JBL 705P, JBL LSR305. JBL LSR308 and dozens more great professional studio monitors.

Then I have heard that a few people (even on this forum) have done independent Spinorama measurements one way or another - if they would share their findings, we would get even more independent data.

At the end of the day - if you don't trust official manufacturer data, then a good advice is to go buy speakers from someone you trust more.
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post #2485 of 5319 Old 03-19-2019, 10:25 AM
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Do it whatever way you want. It's your money .
True. But I was hoping to plant a seed. If the science of loudspeaker evaluation tells us that people prefer a certain bass extension and smooth response shape, then why base the purchase decision only on a speaker's raw performance when they are used in concert with subwoofers and EQ?

Eliminating those two variables shifts the focus to other criteria that bear on sound quality for the end user -- the listening window and power responses (i.e. the Spinorama data measured with the room EQ applied), or in-band compression at higher SPLs.
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post #2486 of 5319 Old 03-19-2019, 10:34 AM
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True. But I was hoping to plant a seed. If the science of loudspeaker evaluation tells us that people prefer a certain bass extension and smooth response shape, then why base the purchase decision only on a speaker's raw performance when they are used in concert with subwoofers and EQ?
One would think that the speakers would need to perform similarly above 120hz for that to be true.
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post #2487 of 5319 Old 03-19-2019, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
True. But I was hoping to plant a seed. If the science of loudspeaker evaluation tells us that people prefer a certain bass extension and smooth response shape, then why base the purchase decision only on a speaker's raw performance when they are used in concert with subwoofers and EQ?

Eliminating those two variables shifts the focus to other criteria that bear on sound quality for the end user -- the listening window and power responses (i.e. the Spinorama data measured with the room EQ applied), or in-band compression at higher SPLs.
I agree and this is how I have auditioned speakers for years, I audition speakers with an 80Hz 4th order high pass in place and usually have to add a bit more EQ to get it to match the slope properly, this way I'm only comparing the range that I care about. I understand in Harman's case they have to pick a philosophy and stick with it and plenty of people listen to speakers without subs so doing it full range isn't a bad way to go.
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post #2488 of 5319 Old 03-20-2019, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
True. But I was hoping to plant a seed. If the science of loudspeaker evaluation tells us that people prefer a certain bass extension and smooth response shape, then why base the purchase decision only on a speaker's raw performance when they are used in concert with subwoofers and EQ?

Eliminating those two variables shifts the focus to other criteria that bear on sound quality for the end user -- the listening window and power responses (i.e. the Spinorama data measured with the room EQ applied), or in-band compression at higher SPLs.
If they're going to be used crossed over to subs in your system than it seems like a good idea to do that. As to EQ, if I understand correctly you're describing essentially tone control. I think the circle of confusion makes that a bit dicey, but it makes sense so long as you have the anechoic spins and know what it is you're correcting. I don't think a black box room RC would be a good idea for a comparison though.
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Now that this thread is about to close, I want to take this moment to thank Dr. Toole (@Floyd Toole) and others for educating all of us in finer aspects of audio engineering.

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post #2490 of 5319 Old 03-20-2019, 10:15 AM
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The way this forum works, if for any reason this thread were to be closed a similar thread would simply spring up in its place.
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