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post #31 of 88 Old 01-06-2019, 08:44 AM
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Lol yes I’m knee deep in it. My OCD with newer is better sometimes clouds my judgement...So I’m faced with a decision 1 sell my speakers for something else or 2 buy a kick ass receiver “anthem mrx1120” and hope it improves the sound to my liking. I’m leaning towards option 2 which now presents another decision the mrx 1120 has been out for a few years. I’m wonder when there due for a update
it's a tough call.. i ride it out , but others love the adventure of new equipment .. if you have the means and want to, certainly go for it .. but always remember that "Bugs " is like a mermaid tale in old Greek mythology, beckoning you down the hole with your money leading the way..

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post #32 of 88 Old 01-06-2019, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Lol yes I’m knee deep in it. My OCD with newer is better sometimes clouds my judgement...So I’m faced with a decision 1 sell my speakers for something else or 2 buy a kick ass receiver “anthem mrx1120” and hope it improves the sound to my liking. I’m leaning towards option 2 which now presents another decision the mrx 1120 has been out for a few years. I’m wonder when there due for a update

Only Anthem knows the answer to that question, tough isn't CES2019 upon us? Wonder if Anthem will make any announcements there. (I don't even if they participate?) - But you could and see if anything magical happens this week....[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/redface.gif[/IMG]
I messaged them but haven’t received a response.

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post #33 of 88 Old 01-06-2019, 12:12 PM
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I messaged them but haven’t received a response.

Oh, my guess is they would be "lips are sealed" on that!

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post #34 of 88 Old 01-06-2019, 12:32 PM
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I messaged them but haven’t received a response.
if you want a new amp/ rec., i would wait (if you want "new") the new stuff is due out soon.. i still think the answer lies with the speakers though..

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post #35 of 88 Old 01-06-2019, 12:58 PM
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Harsh, really? I know everyone says rotel is supposed to pair nicely but I wasn't a fan when I tried in the atore .
I have 5 CWM7.3 in-walls which are pretty much CM9 or CM10 paired with a Rotel RMB-1585 and can not be be more happy with my 5.2.4 setup. I personally do not like the the new 700 series. I would spend the extra cash and jump up to the 800 series before investing in the 700 series. I prefer the CM series much more than the 700 series, I am probably also a major minority on this one but you like what you like.
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post #36 of 88 Old 01-06-2019, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I messaged them but haven’t received a response.
if you want a new amp/ rec., i would wait (if you want "new") the new stuff is due out soon.. i still think the answer lies with the speakers though..
Oh I agree with you for the most part but before I go pull the trigger on new speakers I think it make more sense to upgrade my receiver as I’m due for one anyway. I haven’t heard the next level up but I think it’s 803ds
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post #37 of 88 Old 01-06-2019, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Harsh, really? I know everyone says rotel is supposed to pair nicely but I wasn't a fan when I tried in the atore .
I have 5 CWM7.3 in-walls which are pretty much CM9 or CM10 paired with a Rotel RMB-1585 and can not be be more happy with my 5.2.4 setup. I personally do not like the the new 700 series. I would spend the extra cash and jump up to the 800 series before investing in the 700 series. I prefer the CM series much more than the 700 series, I am probably also a major minority on this one but you like what you like.
In retrospect I should of listened to my spidey senses I liked the cm10s2 very much but I got caught up with the newer is better syndrome...
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post #38 of 88 Old 01-06-2019, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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What’s the price jump from the 702s2 to the 803ds?

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post #39 of 88 Old 01-06-2019, 01:26 PM
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What’s the price jump from the 702s2 to the 803ds?
$4500 to $17,000

Maybe worth trying a different brand for a different sound that’s not so harsh.
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post #40 of 88 Old 01-06-2019, 01:27 PM
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Oh I agree with you for the most part but before I go pull the trigger on new speakers I think it make more sense to upgrade my receiver as I’m due for one anyway. I haven’t heard the next level up but I think it’s 803ds
if it's time, by all means, get a new amp..the new stuff should start appearing at ces and soon after...

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post #41 of 88 Old 01-06-2019, 01:36 PM
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The MRX1120 will help the sound in your room with the room correction, but not by making your speakers warmer or more laid back. I would add a Primaluna or Pass XA25 amp to my MRX520 receiver if I used the system for music more than I do. That way I'd still have ARC and hopefully with a better, warmer sounding amp. It could get very expensive if you don't change speakers. Or worse yet, you could upgrade everything and still not be happy.
I heard the PrimaLuna Dialogue yesterday for the first time and I’m in love. Smooth as butter and clean with lots of detail. But man, those tubs can get warm. Also heard a McIntosh MAC5300 2 channel solid state integrated for the first time yesterday too, not impressed.

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post #42 of 88 Old 01-06-2019, 01:38 PM
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What’s the price jump from the 702s2 to the 803ds?
Look st the 804d3’s or the see if you can find a set of 803d2’s. The only 800 series d3 I like is the 804 other than that I like the d2 of the 800 series much better. The new D3 series just does not sound right to me.
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post #43 of 88 Old 01-06-2019, 01:39 PM
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What’s the price jump from the 702s2 to the 803ds?
What, I think it's like double the price for the entry level 804 tower as the 702. I think the 803 is like $17K?? Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. But for that kind of coin, you can do better than the B&W in my opinion. The 800 series Diamonds are wonderful, I got a chance to preview them at my local dealer when the d3 was released. That was the 802. Impressive. But 803 and 804, in my opinion, are rivaled or surpassed by other offerings for similar or less money. All good, if you are a B&W fan and like the aesthetic, nothing wrong with that. But if you're not sure, and you want to go into that territory, I'd have a serious look at the Paradigm Persona or the Totem Acoustic Elements, that is, if you can audition either.

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post #44 of 88 Old 01-06-2019, 08:24 PM
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Oh I agree with you for the most part but before I go pull the trigger on new speakers I think it make more sense to upgrade my receiver as I’m due for one anyway. I haven’t heard the next level up but I think it’s 803ds
Next level up is 804D3. Its $4,500 to $9,000 jump. The 803s you mentioned are a colossal jump in price, performance and quality.

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So after owning the CM10 S2 for around 1 year I quickly jumped at the chance to upgrade to 702s2. Unfortunately I'm starting to feel like I made a mistake. The highs notes feel really harsh to my ears and can't seem to get the same imaging. The bass is better but I think it drowns out the mids. Can someone please tell if there some secret to getting these babies to sing!
Hi, you may be doing something wrong with your setup. I own the B&W 705 s2 since 2 months, which is the bookshelf equivalent of the 702 s2 and I also auditioned the 702 s2 extensively before settling on the 705 s2. 705 s2 is just a less bassier version of the 702 but same mids and treble. 702 and 705 s2 are great sounding speakers for music with the mids and treble, i find the piano notes especially impressive. And im not even using a dedicated power amp, im powering them through an onkyo 818 avr, though im not running any other speakers off that avr (use another avr for home theater audio). Your amp and DAC both matter to how good the speakers will sound and of course the settings. The onkyo 818 im powering them with has a Burr Brown Dac that sounds warm with music.
You should stop using a oppo blu ray player as a pre pro if you're doing that, also if you're using any kind of room correction software, you should disable it and calibrate the speakers manually. I found that when i ran audyssey on the 705 s2, the music became a little thin, when i reset the avr, did some manual calibration, the music opened up very well.

And don't go off people who say B&W 700 s2 are overpriced speakers or that you're paying for the bowers brand name or that these speakers don't sound better (or sound worse) than the discontinued CM series, people who tell you that are not owners. I'm an owner, the 700 s2 speakers easily beat the defunct CM series- new carbon dome tweeter, new continuum midrange driver. And 702 and 705 s2 (with the tweeter on top designs) also give you like 70% of the performance of the 800 series for less than half the money, so in that respect they are better value. The 705 s2 is like 70% of the 805 d3 performance, the 702 s2 is the same performance compared to 803 d3. I also auditioned the mentioned 800 series models when buying the 705 s2, so Im telling you from experience.

I would suggest you to keep the 702 s2 and tune it and you'll come to appreciate their musicality. Change your pre pro/amp, music source, settings and experiment with placement (in the 702 s2 tweeter on top design, your ear level should either be where the top tweeter is or between the midrange cone and the top tweeter).
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post #46 of 88 Old 01-07-2019, 05:06 AM
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I heard the PrimaLuna Dialogue yesterday for the first time and I’m in love. Smooth as butter and clean with lots of detail. But man, those tubs can get warm. Also heard a McIntosh MAC5300 2 channel solid state integrated for the first time yesterday too, not impressed.
Yea, the MAC5300 isn't really impressive nor does it have "the McIntosh Sound" people are looking for in McIntosh solid state amps. For that you need an amp with autoformers the cheapest of which is the MC152. It'll have a much more tube-like sound.
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post #47 of 88 Old 01-07-2019, 05:53 AM
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Yea, the MAC5300 isn't really impressive nor does it have "the McIntosh Sound" people are looking for in McIntosh solid state amps. For that you need an amp with autoformers the cheapest of which is the MC152. It'll have a much more tube-like sound.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/...r-measurements

These measurements and JA’s final conclusion make me think that the idiosyncrasies he measured aren’t to the OP’s liking. His description seems to echo the measurements. I would look for a more neutral loudspeaker.
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https://www.stereophile.com/content/...r-measurements

These measurements and JA’s final conclusion make me think that the idiosyncrasies he measured aren’t to the OP’s liking. His description seems to echo the measurements. I would look for a more neutral loudspeaker.
More than 90% of the time, the 700 s2 series are very neutral sounding speakers with music, i am coming off monitor audio gold speakers, these bowers are more neutral sounding. The 800 series can, with some musical notes, sound excessively bright but a tuned 800 series speaker also brings it down to a level where it is more neutral sounding than bright.
Just to confirm, do you own the 700 s2 speakers in your home? Or are you sharing your 'experience' by reading measurement graphs posted on the web? I'm asking this because you used the words 'makes me think', when a person uses those words, it is all but confirmation that he has no real world first hand experience with the speakers in his listening environment.
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post #49 of 88 Old 01-07-2019, 07:49 AM
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More than 90% of the time, the 700 s2 series are very neutral sounding speakers with music, i am coming off monitor audio gold speakers, these bowers are more neutral sounding. The 800 series can, with some musical notes, sound excessively bright but a tuned 800 series speaker also brings it down to a level where it is more neutral sounding than bright.
Just to confirm, do you own the 700 s2 speakers in your home? Or are you sharing your 'experience' by reading measurement graphs posted on the web? I'm asking this because you used the words 'makes me think', when a person uses those words, it is all but confirmation that he has no real world first hand experience with the speakers in his listening environment.
No real world experience with the current gen. I have owned 805s and 803s (several generations ago). Just trying to come up with a "reason" as to why the OP is having these issues. That said, it appears (again through reading reviews) that B&W is no longer going for a "neutral" sound. I base this on the fact that many of the reviews I have read point out anomalies in the measurements. That said, if you like what you hear, rock on!

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post #50 of 88 Old 01-07-2019, 12:39 PM
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The first thing I noticed about the 702's vs. my CM10's was the improved staging, more open midrange, tighter bass, but less forgiving treble. The 702's do a better job of disappearing in the room, and the mids don't have that "cupped hands" voice. However, the CM10's were already very revealing speakers, and the 702's CAN sound harsh on certain recordings. Both are awesome speakers though.
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post #51 of 88 Old 01-07-2019, 07:34 PM - Thread Starter
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The first thing I noticed about the 702's vs. my CM10's was the improved staging, more open midrange, tighter bass, but less forgiving treble. The 702's do a better job of disappearing in the room, and the mids don't have that "cupped hands" voice. However, the CM10's were already very revealing speakers, and the 702's CAN sound harsh on certain recordings. Both are awesome speakers though.
I do agree they are both great speakers but imo the improved bass took something away from the mids openness mixed with high pitch of some recordings is a serious issue for me. I’m hoping the anthems arc can settle things down, will see. What’s your set up?

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post #52 of 88 Old 01-07-2019, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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So after owning the CM10 S2 for around 1 year I quickly jumped at the chance to upgrade to 702s2. Unfortunately I'm starting to feel like I made a mistake. The highs notes feel really harsh to my ears and can't seem to get the same imaging. The bass is better but I think it drowns out the mids. Can someone please tell if there some secret to getting these babies to sing!
Hi, you may be doing something wrong with your setup. I own the B&W 705 s2 since 2 months, which is the bookshelf equivalent of the 702 s2 and I also auditioned the 702 s2 extensively before settling on the 705 s2. 705 s2 is just a less bassier version of the 702 but same mids and treble. 702 and 705 s2 are great sounding speakers for music with the mids and treble, i find the piano notes especially impressive. And im not even using a dedicated power amp, im powering them through an onkyo 818 avr, though im not running any other speakers off that avr (use another avr for home theater audio). Your amp and DAC both matter to how good the speakers will sound and of course the settings. The onkyo 818 im powering them with has a Burr Brown Dac that sounds warm with music.
You should stop using a oppo blu ray player as a pre pro if you're doing that, also if you're using any kind of room correction software, you should disable it and calibrate the speakers manually. I found that when i ran audyssey on the 705 s2, the music became a little thin, when i reset the avr, did some manual calibration, the music opened up very well.

And don't go off people who say B&W 700 s2 are overpriced speakers or that you're paying for the bowers brand name or that these speakers don't sound better (or sound worse) than the discontinued CM series, people who tell you that are not owners. I'm an owner, the 700 s2 speakers easily beat the defunct CM series- new carbon dome tweeter, new continuum midrange driver. And 702 and 705 s2 (with the tweeter on top designs) also give you like 70% of the performance of the 800 series for less than half the money, so in that respect they are better value. The 705 s2 is like 70% of the 805 d3 performance, the 702 s2 is the same performance compared to 803 d3. I also auditioned the mentioned 800 series models when buying the 705 s2, so Im telling you from experience.

I would suggest you to keep the 702 s2 and tune it and you'll come to appreciate their musicality. Change your pre pro/amp, music source, settings and experiment with placement (in the 702 s2 tweeter on top design, your ear level should either be where the top tweeter is or between the midrange cone and the top tweeter).
Keeping my 702s seems to be the most logical sense. I’m most likely going to purchase anthems mrx1120 now that being said I don’t think the oppo is to be blamed, there dac is pretty good 32 bit from AKM called the AK4458VN. I’ve used all my speakers via oppo (103d-203) with my 683s2 cm10s2 and now my 702s2 they all sound great I’m sure they would of sounded better with a dedicated pre/pro but the point is I was satisfied. For now I will spend some time to fine tune my setting will see what happens.....

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post #53 of 88 Old 01-07-2019, 08:39 PM
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I dont know how much time you have spent with varying positions/angles but it can be very important. do you have rew and umik mic? if not thats where I would start as its less than 100 bux and your time.

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post #54 of 88 Old 01-07-2019, 09:05 PM
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I have head that these speakers are current hungry . Mabey a Avr or the amp your using doesn’t have the right synergy for the speakers . I have a marantz pm11s3 and I’m using monitor audio silver 8 speakers now and I’m considering giving b&w a try . I would like to try the cm10

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post #55 of 88 Old 01-09-2019, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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I have head that these speakers are current hungry . Mabey a Avr or the amp your using doesn’t have the right synergy for the speakers . I have a marantz pm11s3 and I’m using monitor audio silver 8 speakers now and I’m considering giving b&w a try . I would like to try the cm10
I think you'll like the cm10, to date it's been my favourite! I was watching a demo of 702s2 put on by B&W and they were using a rotel amp 300wpc.....

SPEAKERS- B&W 702s2, B&W HTM71 S2,
OPPO UDP 203 player/pre, EMOTIVA UPA-2
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post #56 of 88 Old 01-09-2019, 09:52 PM
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I think you'll like the cm10, to date it's been my favourite! I was watching a demo of 702s2 put on by B&W and they were using a rotel amp 300wpc.....
Problem is finding a new pair

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post #57 of 88 Old 01-10-2019, 02:28 AM
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I do agree they are both great speakers but imo the improved bass took something away from the mids openness mixed with high pitch of some recordings is a serious issue for me. I’m hoping the anthems arc can settle things down, will see. What’s your set up?
Hey can you give an example of some recordings that you feel are harsh? I'd like to try to play those tracks here. Even specific time indexes would be great too.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #58 of 88 Old 01-10-2019, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I do agree they are both great speakers but imo the improved bass took something away from the mids openness mixed with high pitch of some recordings is a serious issue for me. I’m hoping the anthems arc can settle things down, will see. What’s your set up?
Hey can you give an example of some recordings that you feel are harsh? I'd like to try to play those tracks here. Even specific time indexes would be great too.
Ok give me a few days. I've moved my speakers a little further away from the wall and angled them a lil more

SPEAKERS- B&W 702s2, B&W HTM71 S2,
OPPO UDP 203 player/pre, EMOTIVA UPA-2
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post #59 of 88 Old 02-02-2019, 05:04 PM
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Ok give me a few days. I've moved my speakers a little further away from the wall and angled them a lil more
I'm in a similar situation to you, though I stopped at the CM10S2s. I started with the 683 and then nabbed demo CM10S2s when they were being cleared out at Magnolia. Loved the openness of the speakers, and pairing them with the Centre 2 S2 has been an amazing HT experience (with the 683s being moved to surrounds). I'm running a Marantz 7012 for HT and a SimAudio Moon i-3.3 for 2 ch with an Oppo 205 as the main disc player, and Rega RP3/Hana EH/SimAudio Moon 310LP phonostage for vinyl.

I listened to the 702s at two different Magnolias and was not impressed. I believe they were powered by Marantz 7012 in both cases. They were too mid-range forward for my taste, though certainly detailed. They had a similar character, from what I recall, of the GoldenEar Triton 3 towers that I auditioned a few years back when I bought the 683s, but not quite as harsh in the midrange. Now that's arguably an unfair judgment in less than ideal auditioning surroundings. But the immediate impression I got with the CM10S2 was, damn, that's what I've been missing from my 683, the open and detailed high end, smooth midrange, and nice kick in the bass. That's how they sound in my home as well, but maybe a little brighter given the small space in our LRm. I suspect the 702 midrange detail would be even more prominent in a small space.

I am going to add some isoacoustics stands to do some isolation from the wood floor since I don't want to do spikes. Many people rave about their gaia feet. But I don't think that will help if you find the 702s too bright. I have them on the plinths now. The Aperta stand allows you to angle the entire speaker up/down to about 6 degrees. I'm hoping to play with this a little to dial back brightness and tighten up the bass. We'll see what happens. Playing with the toe-in may also have an impact.

Sorry to hear you're not as happy with the 702s. I'm sure you can find them on the 2nd hand market in nice condition. The 702s will almost certainly get you more money in return.

HT: Oppo 205, Oppo 93 (all region), DirecTV > Marantz SR7012/SimAudio MOON 340i (FL/FR) > B&W CM10S2, B&W Centre 2 S2, B&W 683 (surround), B&W ASW 610 sub; LG C8 OLED 55" monitor
2CH: Oppo 205, Rega RP3/Hana EH> Rega PSU-2 > SimAudio MOON Neo 310LP > SimAudio MOON 340i > B&W CM10S2
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post #60 of 88 Old 02-22-2019, 08:59 PM
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yes that's what I keep telling myself improving the pre/amp should make a difference. My concern is that I started with the 683s2 which were great but I felt I could do better so I upgraded to the cm10s2 which I loved and now to the 702s2's (using all the same gear)
i'm not really excited. I like the better bass response but the highs are harsh at times and I feel like it doesn't produce the same soundstage as my cm10s2 did. How did you have your speakers set up with the Oppo?
I actually tried the 683s2, then upgraded to the 703s2 and now I have the 702s2. I would have the say the 702 are more balanced, and detailed. Im using a Emotiva pre amp with a NAD 2600 AMP. I think equipment has a lot to do with it. I thought the 703 were a little on the bright side, but the 702 are pretty neutral to me, if anything a little on the warm side. just my two cents
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