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post #1 of 88 Old 12-31-2018, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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B&W 702s2 buyer remorse

So after owning the CM10 S2 for around 1 year I quickly jumped at the chance to upgrade to 702s2. Unfortunately I'm starting to feel like I made a mistake. The highs notes feel really harsh to my ears and can't seem to get the same imaging. The bass is better but I think it drowns out the mids. Can someone please tell if there some secret to getting these babies to sing!
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post #2 of 88 Old 12-31-2018, 08:28 PM
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Thats surprising. I found the B&W 702s2 to be one of the warmest sounding sets of speakers I've heard. Emotiva are known to be very bright amps. How's it sound if you take them off the emotiva?
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post #3 of 88 Old 12-31-2018, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blakhouse View Post
So after owning the CM10 S2 for around 1 year I quickly jumped at the chance to upgrade to 702s2. Unfortunately I'm starting to feel like I made a mistake. The highs notes feel really harsh to my ears and can't seem to get the same imaging. The bass is better but I think it drowns out the mids. Can someone please tell if there some secret to getting these babies to sing!

How long have you had them?

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post #4 of 88 Old 12-31-2018, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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compared to the CM10s2 with the same amp they definitely sound different. I haven't tried them with any other amps. Have you ever auditioned the CM10s2 ?

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post #5 of 88 Old 12-31-2018, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I've had them for 6 months now

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post #6 of 88 Old 12-31-2018, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blakhouse View Post
compared to the CM10s2 with the same amp they definitely sound different. I haven't tried them with any other amps. Have you ever auditioned the CM10s2 ?
Yea, I also use to own CM9's. The 702s2 have a lot more clarity and detail than the CM10s2's. I love them. I use to have Emotiva amps also but I found them way too bright. I'm not saying this is a solution to your problem. I'm just suggesting trying it since yo have nothing to lose.

Edit: another thought here. Did you run room correction when you had your CM10's and maybe either not disable it or not rerun it when you got the 702s2? If so, it's like the EQ in your receiver is boosting frequencies that the CM10 were deficient.
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post #7 of 88 Old 12-31-2018, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by blakhouse View Post
I've had them for 6 months now
Gotcha, I was thinking if you literally just got them maybe you needed a bit to simply get used to the sound in your space, but 6 months you've got a solid taste.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blakhouse View Post
compared to the CM10s2 with the same amp they definitely sound different. I haven't tried them with any other amps. Have you ever auditioned the CM10s2 ?
I know that was for Markmon1, but I actually did audition the CM10s on Marantz/Rotel gear, and I found them to be a bit on the harsh side actually! I don't know how the Rotel compares to the Emotiva, but neither amp should be coloring the sound, at least not in theory. Reality, yeah, often different.

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post #8 of 88 Old 12-31-2018, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by blakhouse View Post
compared to the CM10s2 with the same amp they definitely sound different. I haven't tried them with any other amps. Have you ever auditioned the CM10s2 ?
Yea, I also use to own CM9's. The 702s2 have a lot more clarity and detail than the CM10s2's. I love them. I use to have Emotiva amps also but I found them way too bright. I'm not saying this is a solution to your problem. I'm just suggesting trying it since yo have nothing to lose.

Edit: another thought here. Did you run room correction when you had your CM10's and maybe either not disable it or not rerun it when you got the 702s2? If so, it's like the EQ in your receiver is boosting frequencies that the CM10 were deficient.
Actually I haven't ran any room correction as I'm using the oppo 203 as preamp. I guess I could play around with the audio setting and see if it makes a difference

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post #9 of 88 Old 12-31-2018, 09:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jonas2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by blakhouse View Post
I've had them for 6 months now
Gotcha, I was thinking if you literally just got them maybe you needed a bit to simply get used to the sound in your space, but 6 months you've got a solid taste.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blakhouse View Post
compared to the CM10s2 with the same amp they definitely sound different. I haven't tried them with any other amps. Have you ever auditioned the CM10s2 ?
I know that was for Markmon1, but I actually did audition the CM10s on Marantz/Rotel gear, and I found them to be a bit on the harsh side actually! I don't know how the Rotel compares to the Emotiva, but neither amp should be coloring the sound, at least not in theory. Reality, yeah, often different.
Harsh, really? I know everyone says rotel is supposed to pair nicely but I wasn't a fan when I tried in the atore .

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post #10 of 88 Old 01-01-2019, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by blakhouse View Post
Actually I haven't ran any room correction as I'm using the oppo 203 as preamp. I guess I could play around with the audio setting and see if it makes a difference
I demoed the 702s with Marantz gear and found them very bright and harsh. I was reaching for the dial pretty quickly. I don’t think it’s your amp, I honestly just think it’s the speakers.
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post #11 of 88 Old 01-01-2019, 10:07 AM
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Actually I haven't ran any room correction as I'm using the oppo 203 as preamp. I guess I could play around with the audio setting and see if it makes a difference

Definitely, what can it hurt?


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Harsh, really? I know everyone says rotel is supposed to pair nicely but I wasn't a fan when I tried in the atore .
GRANTED - I have not listened to the 700 series, so I can't pass any judgements there, but the only B&Ws that I really like have been the Diamonds, and I've heard those on Classe and Parasound gear (and found no difference between the two - sounded wonderful). Rotel? Dunno. I'd think if the gear was proper, it wouldn't color the sound. I certainly won't blame the gear for making the speakers sound harsh, though I'm sure plenty of folks will beg to differ.

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post #12 of 88 Old 01-01-2019, 11:35 AM
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Are they actually "bright" or just more neutral than the discontinued CM10 S2?

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I’d be looking at everything in line before the speakers. The 702s will be more revealing. I’ve heard Rotel & Marantz amps with 700 and 800 series and not my cup of tea, except for the Marantz Reference line of integrated amps. I know McIntosh isn’t in everyone’s budget, but i’m in love with the Mac & B&W combo.

While I was waiting on my Marantz 8805 to arrive I had to used my Oppo 205 as my pre. It worked, but the Marantz improved things greatly.

Everything is a step. You bought some great speakers. They will play what they are fed. I’d look at a decent pre next. From there if you need more consider swapping amps?

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post #14 of 88 Old 01-04-2019, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I’d be looking at everything in line before the speakers. The 702s will be more revealing. I’ve heard Rotel & Marantz amps with 700 and 800 series and not my cup of tea. I know McIntosh isn’t in everyone’s budget, but i’m in love with the Mac & B&W combo.

While I was waiting on my Marantz 8805 to arrive I had to used my Oppo 205 as my pre. It worked, by the Marantz improved things greatly.

Everything is a step. You bought some great speakers. They will play what they are fed. I’d look at a decent pre next. From there if you need more consider swapping amps?
yes that's what I keep telling myself improving the pre/amp should make a difference. My concern is that I started with the 683s2 which were great but I felt I could do better so I upgraded to the cm10s2 which I loved and now to the 702s2's (using all the same gear)
i'm not really excited. I like the better bass response but the highs are harsh at times and I feel like it doesn't produce the same soundstage as my cm10s2 did. How did you have your speakers set up with the Oppo?

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post #15 of 88 Old 01-04-2019, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Are they actually "bright" or just more neutral than the discontinued CM10 S2?
I find them a little brighter tbh

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post #16 of 88 Old 01-04-2019, 09:27 PM
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B&W 702s2 buyer remorse

Quote:
Originally Posted by blakhouse View Post
I find them a little brighter tbh

I’m demoing the 702 S2 tomorrow and asked for an Anthem receiver but the dealer indicated it was to difficult to move and would have to use a McIntosh instead. And the kicker is, I bought my Anthem AVR from them. So frustrating.


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post #17 of 88 Old 01-05-2019, 05:31 AM
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I’m demoing the 702 S2 tomorrow and asked for an Anthem receiver but the dealer indicated it was to difficult to move and would have to use a McIntosh instead. And the kicker is, I bought my Anthem AVR from them. So frustrating.
Man your dealer and mine are totally different. My dealer interaction works more like this:

Me: "Hey I'd love to hear the 702s2's do you have any?"
Dealer: "Yea, I can get someone to drop off a pair this afternoon for a day or two".
Me: "That'd be great."

I guess it helps that almost everything that's been "dropped off for test" isn't allowed to leave the house and gets bought.
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Originally Posted by RaceCarDriver View Post
I’d be looking at everything in line before the speakers. The 702s will be more revealing. I’ve heard Rotel & Marantz amps with 700 and 800 series and not my cup of tea, except for the Marantz Reference line of integrated amps. I know McIntosh isn’t in everyone’s budget, but i’m in love with the Mac & B&W combo.

While I was waiting on my Marantz 8805 to arrive I had to used my Oppo 205 as my pre. It worked, but the Marantz improved things greatly.

Everything is a step. You bought some great speakers. They will play what they are fed. I’d look at a decent pre next. From there if you need more consider swapping amps?
Ah hey I didn't know you broke down and got the MC303's with your setup
Yea, the 800 series and McIntosh with autoformer amps are some real magic.

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post #19 of 88 Old 01-05-2019, 07:29 AM
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Man your dealer and mine are totally different. My dealer interaction works more like this:



Me: "Hey I'd love to hear the 702s2's do you have any?"

Dealer: "Yea, I can get someone to drop off a pair this afternoon for a day or two".

Me: "That'd be great."



I guess it helps that almost everything that's been "dropped off for test" isn't allowed to leave the house and gets bought.

Yea...my dealer doesn’t like to sell stuff! We shall see what happens!


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post #20 of 88 Old 01-05-2019, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post
I’m demoing the 702 S2 tomorrow and asked for an Anthem receiver but the dealer indicated it was to difficult to move and would have to use a McIntosh instead. And the kicker is, I bought my Anthem AVR from them. So frustrating.

Then have the dealer move the speakers if they can't move the receiver - that shouldn't be too hard?

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Then have the dealer move the speakers if they can't move the receiver - that shouldn't be too hard?

From what I remember, they have a miscellaneous speaker room where the GoldenEar and Focal speakers are located and then some of the other are grouped by manufacture, B&W/Rotel, Paradigm/Anthem, etc. we shall see what they decide to do.


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post #22 of 88 Old 01-05-2019, 08:50 AM
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From what I remember, they have a miscellaneous speaker room where the GoldenEar and Focal speakers are located and then some of the other are grouped by manufacture, B&W/Rotel, Paradigm/Anthem, etc. we shall see what they decide to do.
Well, I for one, if I were your salesperson would bend over backwards to accommodate your very reasonable request. "It's too hard", translation: "I'm too lazy" or "I really want you to buy a McIntosh"....

Sure, it might be challenging to do, not impossible. Moving the speakers is easy - my dealer would do that all the time from room to room to demo speakers on different gear.

Well, keep us posted! Hope you get to listen on the Anthem gear.
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post #23 of 88 Old 01-05-2019, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by blakhouse View Post
So after owning the CM10 S2 for around 1 year I quickly jumped at the chance to upgrade to 702s2. Unfortunately I'm starting to feel like I made a mistake. The highs notes feel really harsh to my ears and can't seem to get the same imaging. The bass is better but I think it drowns out the mids. Can someone please tell if there some secret to getting these babies to sing!
If they measure similar to the 704s, it could be because of the uneven frequency response. Based on what I am seeing in this chart, it would lead me to believe this speaker would have a boosted sounding mid bass, recessed mids, and edgy highs. By the sounds of it, this is what you are experiencing. The remedy? Perhaps room correction could flatten things out. Or you could return them for something with a smoother response.

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post #24 of 88 Old 01-05-2019, 01:01 PM
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I find them a little brighter tbh
Ok. Just thought I would ask as it seems that listeners that are use to a warmer (more laid-back) presentation perceive more neutral speakers as bright or brighter. However, looking at the measurements just posted maybe those higher frequencies are edgy as you have experienced.

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post #25 of 88 Old 01-05-2019, 01:34 PM
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That's pretty interesting. I demoed a pair of the 702s with a Yamaha Aventage amp and while I wouldn't say the sound was warm, I certainly wouldn't say the sound was bright. The best way I can describe the sound would be neutral and very revealing. I could see the B&Ws making poorly recorded music sound very bad.

I didn't listen to the 702s with multiple amps, but I heard a massive difference with other speakers switching between a Marantz (I think it was a Marantz), Arcam, and McIntosh amp. There was an immediately noticeable difference in the low end switching between all of the amps with the Arcam and McIntosh amps easily beating out the Marantz for sound quality. The depth and warmness made the speakers sound so much better. I think it might help to try the 702s with a different AVR/amp.

AVR - Yamaha RX-V679 || Fronts - Bowers & Wilkins 684 S2 || Center - Bowers & Wilkins HTM62 S2 || Surrounds - Bowers & Wilkins 686 S2 || Subwoofer - SVS SB-2000 || TV - Vizio M50-C1
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post #26 of 88 Old 01-06-2019, 07:45 AM
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B&W 702s2 buyer remorse

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Originally Posted by Jonas2 View Post
Well, I for one, if I were your salesperson would bend over backwards to accommodate your very reasonable request. "It's too hard", translation: "I'm too lazy" or "I really want you to buy a McIntosh"....

Sure, it might be challenging to do, not impossible. Moving the speakers is easy - my dealer would do that all the time from room to room to demo speakers on different gear.

Well, keep us posted! Hope you get to listen on the Anthem gear.
I listened to the B&W 702 S2, GE T1R and Focal Aria 936 listening to Stevie Ray Vaughan on a Cambridge CD player through a McIntosh MA5300 integrated amp. The Focal Aria 936 was head and shoulders better than the other 2. I couldn’t believe how lifeless the GE and B&W sounded. I was so disappointed I checked all the speaker connections. The Focal speakers were extremely smooth and detailed with a larger sound stage.

Went to another dealer after this demo to listen the Dynaudio Contour 30 and Focal Aria 936 with a PrimaLuna integrated amp and the PrimaLuna amp blew the doors off the McIntosh amp. I know the PrimaLuna is tubes and McIntosh is solid state but prices are similar.

I asked if I could do an in-home demo but have not heard back from them.


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Anthem MRX-720, Oppo UDP-205, Bluesound Node 2i, Focal Aria 936/CC900
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Last edited by mbroadus; 01-06-2019 at 08:25 AM.
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post #27 of 88 Old 01-06-2019, 07:54 AM
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Come on now, we all know that B&Ws are overrated... or should I say, overpriced. I would have buyer's remorse too if I knew I could get the same performance out of $1000 per speaker speakers, of which there are a dozen manufacturers to choose from. B&W had their moment in the sun 20 years ago - you're just paying for the name now. I guarantee you that the average age of a B&W fanatic is around 60. Time to open one's mind (and wallet) to alternatives.
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post #28 of 88 Old 01-06-2019, 08:28 AM
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yes that's what I keep telling myself improving the pre/amp should make a difference. My concern is that I started with the 683s2 which were great but I felt I could do better so I upgraded to the cm10s2 which I loved and now to the 702s2's (using all the same gear)
i'm not really excited. I like the better bass response but the highs are harsh at times and I feel like it doesn't produce the same soundstage as my cm10s2 did. How did you have your speakers set up with the Oppo?
your visiting the entry to "the rabbit hole" if you start upgrading system parts that you previously liked.. the speakers created the problem .. change the speakers .. unless of course you want to "upgade" everything at whatever expense .. i know x amount of rabbit hole audiophiles will disagree but that's what opinion is all about..
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YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #29 of 88 Old 01-06-2019, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by blakhouse View Post
yes that's what I keep telling myself improving the pre/amp should make a difference. My concern is that I started with the 683s2 which were great but I felt I could do better so I upgraded to the cm10s2 which I loved and now to the 702s2's (using all the same gear)
i'm not really excited. I like the better bass response but the highs are harsh at times and I feel like it doesn't produce the same soundstage as my cm10s2 did. How did you have your speakers set up with the Oppo?
your visiting the entry to "the rabbit hole" if you start upgrading system parts that you previously liked.. the speakers created the problem .. change the speakers .. unless of course you want to "upgade" everything at whatever expense .. i know x amount of rabbit hole audiophiles will disagree but that's what opinion is all about..
Lol yes I’m knee deep in it. My OCD with newer is better sometimes clouds my judgement...So I’m faced with a decision 1 sell my speakers for something else or 2 buy a kick ass receiver “anthem mrx1120” and hope it improves the sound to my liking. I’m leaning towards option 2 which now presents another decision the mrx 1120 has been out for a few years. I’m wonder when there due for a update
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SPEAKERS- B&W 702s2, B&W HTM71 S2,
OPPO UDP 203 player/pre, EMOTIVA UPA-2
TV - LG OLED65b7
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post #30 of 88 Old 01-06-2019, 08:44 AM
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Lol yes I’m knee deep in it. My OCD with newer is better sometimes clouds my judgement...So I’m faced with a decision 1 sell my speakers for something else or 2 buy a kick ass receiver “anthem mrx1120” and hope it improves the sound to my liking. I’m leaning towards option 2 which now presents another decision the mrx 1120 has been out for a few years. I’m wonder when there due for a update

Only Anthem knows the answer to that question, tough isn't CES2019 upon us? Wonder if Anthem will make any announcements there. (I don't even if they participate?) - But you could and see if anything magical happens this week....

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
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Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
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