Originally Posted by sigpig
[Rant]What else should we expect from a dealer? Of course you would recommend the gear you sell.
Before you trash speakers from a VERY well-regarded company, maybe YOU should audition them and see if the so-called dispersion issues.
Since Triad uses ribbon tweeters in their Platinum speakers, and Alcons uses ribbons for both mids and tweeters, that they are inferior speakers?
Please, allow me to clarify some things...
I make no secret that I'm an A/V dealer because that would be disingenuous if I did not. That doesn't bias me in any way, whatsoever. I look at A/V equipment as tools from which I do my job. Period. I share my experiences in using those tools and dealing with manufacturers to help hobbyists (like OP, yourself, Russdog, etc.) gain a perspective from the different side of the table from which to further your knowledge in the hobby. Prestige Audio is NOT even my company's name. This allows me to be honest and share industry info and opinion without repercussion.
I would never try to have an honest back and forth with someone arguing from a "position of authority". However, I am, and have been a dealer of over 2 dozen speaker lines and have made a living traveling the world designing systems for my clients as well as consulting other A/V professionals on their own product offerings and system designs. That doesn't make me right about everything and I come here to learn as much as I share, but I do feel like it makes me an expert and a professional. There are a TON... like, 1000's of speaker models I haven't heard or used. And I'm sure a lot of those are outstanding speakers!
So, what should you "expect from a dealer"? Well, from me you can expect an honest, professional, expert opinion given from 19 years of experience. I NEVER recommend or discuss something unless I've had hands on experience with it. And, if I happen to, I would fully disclose that. Unlike a lot of marketing professionals and ID companies that lurk these forums as sock puppets trying to steer people towards their brands and products. THAT absolutely happens!
Being on here in no way, shape, or form helps my business. Do guys PM me sometimes and ask if I can help them if their local dealer is trying to hose them or they cannot find one for what they need or need professional advice to compare to what they are getting? YES. Have I helped a few people out? YES. But this isn't a business component for me in any way. I enjoy you guys and the hobby. This keeps me human when it comes to A/V stuff as I'm still a hobbyist at heart and enjoy helping people. I've given guys my number and taken their calls or txts at all kinds of off hours and given them hours of incite or free advice discussing their system. It's fun for me and I'm happy to do it. I don't charge for it. It's just like two buddies talking.
So, to point at me like I'm the big bad (dealer) wolf isn't fair at all and makes no sense.
I did NOT, in any way, trash anyone's speakers. Not at all.
You assume I've never heard products from the ID brands being discussed. Why on Earth would you just assume that and state it as if it were true? It's not... and I have.
I pointed out that with that system budget and in that room the difference in cost between the Klipsch and the other 15" sub recommended was not worth the cost. Assuming a 20% discount on the Klispch 15, there is no way in HELL that the $1400 or so in the Rhythmic FV15HP is worth $680 more per unit in the OP's room. Absolutely NO WAY. especially if there will be two subs. That's a $1360 difference.... 13% of the OP's stated budget. For what?! Totally NOT worth any minor change in maximum bass performance.
Since my point is that the difference in money would be better realized in the MAINS at that budget, that isn't to disparage the Rhythmic. Nor am I saying anyone who loves theirs is wrong to do so. It's just how I see the money being best distributed in the OP's system/room.
BTW.... NO ONE HAS TOLD ME I WAS WRONG AND WHY WITH THAT DIAGNOSIS BETWEEN THE TWO. Feel free. It's the tech industry. Things change and I am happy to learn!
I pointed out that the RAAL ribbons will suffer from lack of dynamics, efficiency, and vertical dispersion, and their placement bellow the screens and below the projection screen. That is far from optimal where the on-walls would solve that easily. So, I did not trash them as speakers. They are fine speakers. However, in the OP's budget, room, and situation, I think they are a terrible recommendation.
As with the subs... PLEASE, TELL ME I AM WRONG AND WHY. Don't give me... "Well Triad does it on expensive speakers". A lot more companies have a lot of expensive speakers WITHOUT ribbons or AMTs. I don't understand you bringing other products into it without any kind of rebuttal to what I said.
BTW, I'm a Triad dealer and have sold and installed Bronze, Silver, Gold, & Platinum product from them as well as plenty of their soundbars and in-ceiling distributed audio. Triad is no silver-bullet speaker line. They have good speakers and some unique custom stuff, but I wouldn't call it a high value line or some kind of master class speaker. They are on here a lot and have done a tremendous amount of grass roots advertising to this forum, which is why they get so much run. Don't kid yourself.
The new Triad Cinema Reference isn't something I've had my hands on, but it will more than likely suffer from the same horizontal issues all ribbons do. It's physics. But, that system is out of the OP's budget. Not sure why you brought it up?
There are some amazing speakers out there with ribbons and AMT drivers. At a time, I was one of the largest dealer of a brand of planar magnetic speakers in the US. In the right application, these different drivers are amazing. Typically, however, they are NOT on par with traditional cone and dome speakers for movies.
Further more - towers with ribbons ESPECIALLY when the OP is going to have 2 rows of seating? Are you kidding? When you are off vertical axis the sparkle and luster of the ribbons will be gone. They lose their life. This is why some ribbons come with different wave guides to help guide the sound wide or tall. Or, they have it int heir instruction manual to change the orientation of the tweeter depending on the position of the speaker. Typically, they go very WIDE, but do not go tall at all.
As for dynamics, the beryllium quad tweeters in the James speaker will perform much better than the RAAL setup. It's physics. Sensitivity is nowhere close, either. The James sensitivity is 96db while the Ascend Sierra is 89db. That is a MAJOR difference for a system being powered by a receiver.
Feel free to respond with where you see things from a different perspective regarding the OP's system and why. I welcome it and it helps further the discussion.